Could developing competitive Jrs simply disappear

[Freak4tennis]

Here is a thought to ponder could developing competitive juniors simply disappear in the US and the new emphasis be on developing recreational and low level high school programs.

Consider these...

It may cost up to $150,000 in total to prepare a junior player for the pro circuit, according to Patrick McEnroe, general manager of player development at the U.S. Tennis Association. That includes travel, coaching, conditioning and food.

The British Lawn Tennis Association estimated it costs around $400,000 to develop a winning player from age 5 to 18.

The International Tennis Federation said it may cost at least $35,500 annually for a 17-year-old male junior player on the international circuit to compete and train for 20 weeks a year.

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

Here is a thought to ponder could developing competitive juniors simply disappear in the US and the new emphasis be on developing recreational and low level high school programs.

Consider these...

It may cost up to $150,000 in total to prepare a junior player for the pro circuit, according to Patrick McEnroe, general manager of player development at the U.S. Tennis Association. That includes travel, coaching, conditioning and food.

The British Lawn Tennis Association estimated it costs around $400,000 to develop a winning player from age 5 to 18.

The International Tennis Federation said it may cost at least $35,500 annually for a 17-year-old male junior player on the international circuit to compete and train for 20 weeks a year.

competitive council in FL does not think so

http://www.ustajacksonville.com/ust..._10_and_under_tennis_rule_tournament_changes/

 

[seminoleG]

competitive council in FL does not think so

http://www.ustajacksonville.com/ust..._10_and_under_tennis_rule_tournament_changes/

Q: Why are these changes being made at 10 and Under Tennis tournaments, and what are the pros and the cons?

The cons are the difficulty in getting the infrastructure in place and the challenge to the teaching pros to have multi-level programs with different balls, courts sizes, etc.

First take a look at who is on the Florida Competitive Council and judge how impartial they are.
Cons- They don't address the primary stakeholder in this the Parents/Players/Teaching Pro's. No mention of the monumental task of changing a way of life.

IMHO - If this fails the USTA will look back on not getting the Instructors and Tennis centers on board "BEFORE" mandatory implementation.

 

[Keysmickey]

First take a look at who is on the Florida Competitive Council and judge how impartial they are.

This comment is so appropriate and could really be inserted in nearly every conversation we have around here. I am so happy someone else has noticed this.

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

that is why I put the

the people who are in charge are parks and rec folks, person who is head of the QS program he is a parks and rec guy, who else do you want them to be, the Rick Macci's of the industry who earn $400 per hour?

 

[seminoleG]

This comment is so appropriate and could really be inserted in nearly every conversation we have around here. I am so happy someone else has noticed this.

I have had several conversations with these folks. I am glad I did because I know where I stand as I start this journey. I have spent 2 years educating myself, and my wife on this. I heard all the negatives attached to USTA and ignored all until I made my own evaluation. There are good people involved and folks with competing agendas.

I started with a "Whos Who in the Zoo!" I researched the background of all the USTA decision makers that influence the process. Talked and visited folks at National. I can assure you that the Fla, folks have no idea how much I knew when we talked.

They were all very friendly and candid in discussions. I have no doubt that the QS "Unanimous" vote by the council wasn't even close. But I understand the dynamics driving all of this.

All said the banter on QS and the USTA is refreshing. I knew nothing about tennis 2 years ago, but when I entered flight school I knew nothing about flying.

So the condescending views from Tennis EXPERTS is a bit comical, but we all have a say.

I can't find another sport where a governing body is also tasked with developing players to the highest level.

That said, I don't think it is possible. I don't believe the USTA will ever consistently develop kids from cradle to grave. Financially why would they. It makes no sense. No other Governing Body does this.

Pro Sports:
Football - Players developed in College. Big $$$$ for NCAA
Baseball - Players developed in Minor Leagues. Team owns rights MLB $$$$
Soccer - Various Organizations/Clubs sign kids develop CLubs $$$ stake
Hockey - Clubs in Europe/College in US. Minor Leagues CLubs $$$$$
Basketball - AAU clubs/Academies. NCAA $$$$$
Golf - Play get good qualify see you on Tour. Sponors $$$$$$$

Tennis - Where does the $$$ go? Player? Coach? Academy. How does the USTA make its money? Is it in the business of making money? We'll if it is in the business of developing Juniors it should be in the business of making money. Have players under contract? Run like the Soccer Clubs in Europe. Would be nice to collect % of all those US Players winnings that were "DEVELOPED" by the USTA.

What role should the USTA Play:
-Leave the developing to the EXPERTS - Pro, TCF
-ID the Best Kids and help them compete internationally.
Travel/Fees/Equipment/Facilty Rental/

Coaching FEES ======= NO That is up to you. Unless you under contract

Russian Federation vs USTA. Why are our best juniors not getting full hospitality at US ITF Event? ARE YOU FR#$ing KIDDING ME!

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

"Q: Aren't these 10 and Under Tennis rule changes only for beginner or recreational players, and not tournament players?

Harkins: No. High performance studies show players who learn and compete on the age-appropriate size courts with the proper equipment develop quicker with better techniques and match strategy. As an example, a 9 year old who develops into a good basketball player isn't moved to a pro size court with a 10-foot basket to compete."


Out of touch with reality much?? I grew up on the playgrounds of Philadelphia and still love to get into a pick up game on a playground when I travel somewhere.

The best 9 year olds are pushed into full pick up games with the big kids. The rest of the 9 year olds sit and watch.

Talent is fostered and pushed to the limits when it is identified. Those 9 year olds are also grabbed up by AAU guys and trained, on full size baskets.

Its no accident we develop the best basketball players. And they sure as heck are not playing on 8 foot rims at 9 years old.

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

I agree, even our (NE) best 9 year olds can handle full reg with any adult, all play up and get bruised by top 12's, they are pushed over the limit in this case, the rest stay green.

I could imagine GA/FL/CA would have equal if not better 9 year olds

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

I agree, even our (NE) best 9 year olds can handle full reg with any adult, all play up and get bruised by top 12's, they are pushed over the limit in this case.

I could imagine GA/FL would have equal if not better 9 year olds

I think so, some dang good 9 year old tennis kids down here. That quote just jumped out at me because of my ties to basketball. Man I have seen some amazing 7-9 year olds and they do scary things on full size courts. Many are working on their handle and do have trouble getting their shots off.

But they certainly are not held back to small courts. He sounds like he may be talking about suburban biddy basketball....and that is not where our Dwayne Wade's come from.

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

so back to the original question,

TCF, how much do you think ( if all your plans go accordingly) will it cost for your daughter to develop into a full competitive Jr. by around 17 ?

100K 200K 300K? even if she does not make it first, she can still go on a full ride to a top D1 school and even that is getting more challenging.

For me it is worth the journey, I will spend more time with my son and hopefully he will stay out of trouble, stay healthy and not mix with the wrong kids, even that is not a guarantee.

So one can only hope and do their best.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

Interesting stuff seminole. If I was running the USTA I would get out of the high performance business. I just don't see the need for Carson or Boca and the costs involved. Those 48 kids won't be developed there any better than they would be at Saddlebrook or IMG or if they choose, a skilled private coach.

I would certainly support and promote Quickstart to introduce more kids to tennis. But then I would butt out. No mandates and let the individual sections and tennis clubs that sponsor tournaments decide what format to use.

If more kids will show up for a Quickstart format, great. If more kids and parents prefer green balls, great. If more parents only support regulation in an area, so be it.

Some might call this chaos and it would be. BUT, if a section starts producing the most top national 14s and they have used green balls, the other sections would go to green balls.

The market would follow success. In the beginning it would be a chaotic experiment, but as the years go by, more sections would gravitate to what system works best to develop the best kids and keep them into tennis.

Maybe it ends up long term Quickstart, or green balls, or back to regulation. See what the market does.

 

[BMC9670]

so back to the original question,

TCF, how much do you think ( if all your plans go accordingly) will it cost for your daughter to develop into a full competitive Jr. by around 17 ?

100K 200K 300K? even if she does not make it first, she can still go on a full ride to a top D1 school and even that is getting more challenging.

For me it is worth the journey, I will spend more time with my son and hopefully he will stay out of trouble, stay healthy and not mix with the wrong kids, even that is not a guarantee.

So one can only hope and do their best.

This is a key issue with tennis in general. In other sports, you can get good for next to nothing and still be "discovered". In tennis, you need a lot of money to get good, and even more money to get noticed by traveling and playing tournaments and collecting points. So this brings me back to the question of what's AFTER QuickStart? As far as we know there is no talent ID system in place and no funding for talented kids to develop, unless one of a few hand selected (or known by) by the USTA.

Quickstart could be a great way to get a ton of kids to try tennis, but as it's been said, how do you keep them and develop them? I'm realistic and know that I can't afford to develop my kids to be top players. But I do the most with what I have. Most parents won't do this when confronted with costs - they will go away.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

so back to the original question,

TCF, how much do you think ( if all your plans go accordingly) will it cost for your daughter to develop into a full competitive Jr. by around 17 ?

100K 200K 300K? even if she does not make it first, she can still go on a full ride to a top D1 school and even that is getting more challenging.

For me it is worth the journey, I will spend more time with my son and hopefully he will stay out of trouble, stay healthy and not mix with the wrong kids, even that is not a guarantee.

So one can only hope and do their best.

Great question. If I take a value of $50/hour for my time. 12-15 hours a week. Plus equipment and court time. $40,000/year.

So I would go with the British estimate of $400,000 to develop a player. I would suppose the goal would be to get good enough where sponsors would help with equipment and/or an academy offers training.

Its a horrible investment, even a D-1 scholarship, its hard to justify.

 

[BMC9670]

Great question. If I take a value of $50/hour for my time. 12-15 hours a week.

I'm going to spend time with my kids regardless, so I look at this part as family-time. Time well spent.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

I'm going to spend time with my kids regardless, so I look at this part as family-time. Time well spent.

Same here. I wouldn't trade it for the world.

But if a parent needed a private coach to do it for them? Big time expenses, $50/hour is about the best you can do these days.

 

[seminoleG]

Some might call this chaos and it would be. BUT, if a section starts producing the most top national 14s and they have used green balls, the other sections would go to green balls.

The market would follow success. In the beginning it would be a chaotic experiment, but as the years go by, more sections would gravitate to what system works best to develop the best kids and keep them into tennis.

Maybe it ends up long term Quickstart, or green balls, or back to regulation. See what the market does.

BINGO! Florida is one of the USTA's QS Program Battle Field. If SOUTHERN and FLORIDA adapt QS and top Juniors come from this section it waill validate it for all. If these sections ignored QS then others would too.

Look at the results of G12s Spring Championships. Florida as a section will continue to produce top Jrs. Florida uses QS therefore QS is Good for all.

USTA Talking - "Yea SC has that Pro 10s circuit, so they don't produce top juniors anyway. Look at Florida."

 

[seminoleG]

Great question. If I take a value of $50/hour for my time. 12-15 hours a week. Plus equipment and court time. $40,000/year.

So I would go with the British estimate of $400,000 to develop a player. I would suppose the goal would be to get good enough where sponsors would help with equipment and/or an academy offers training.

Its a horrible investment, even a D-1 scholarship, its hard to justify.

Pro- I wanted to comment on this from other thread. When I mentioned scholarship and investment. I was working on the premise that you are going to spend $$$ and time on your kids for XXXX.

My buddy spent thousands on cheer leading, another on gymnastics and so on. So when you figure overall cost, take into account that a percentage of that would be spent on something else, and add the benefit of spending time with your little one and the cost IMHO are cut substantially.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

BINGO! Florida is one of the USTA's QS Program Battle Field. If SOUTHERN and FLORIDA adapt QS and top Juniors come from this section it waill validate it for all. If these sections ignored QS then others would too.

Look at the results of G12s Spring Championships. Florida as a section will continue to produce top Jrs. Florida uses QS therefore QS is Good for all.

USTA Talking - "Yea SC has that Pro 10s circuit, so they don't produce top juniors anyway. Look at Florida."

True, now there is no way to run the experiment. The only thing to do now is wait for the 14s and survey the parents as to exactly how their kids trained when young.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

Pro- I wanted to comment on this from other thread. When I mentioned scholarship and investment. I was working on the premise that you are going to spend $$$ and time on your kids for XXXX.

My buddy spent thousands on cheer leading, another on gymnastics and so on. So when you figure overall cost, take into account that a percentage of that would be spent on something else, and add the benefit of spending time with your little one and the cost IMHO are cut substantially.

I agree. I am sure every sports parent can tally up the costs and come up with a big number.

But tennis is extreme. A soccer parent could enter a kid in several leagues and school team and have them develop into a D-1 player at a fairly low cost.

A tennis parent who uses a private coach, plays the tournament travel game....that number to produce a D-1 player is much higher than soccer or other sports.

 

[seminoleG]

I agree. I am sure every sports parent can tally up the costs and come up with a big number.

But tennis is extreme. A soccer parent could enter a kid in several leagues and school team and have them develop into a D-1 player at a fairly low cost.

A tennis parent who uses a private coach, plays the tournament travel game....that number to produce a D-1 player is much higher than soccer or other sports.

Agreed. Tennis kids overall when they go to college they turn out well. I know more professionals (Dr/Lawyer etc..) that took the tennis route then most other sports.

Independence, Confidence, Drive, Responsibility .......

I am still amazed @7-8-9 score, rules, play, manage all these kids do.

 

[jht32]

Agreed. Tennis kids overall when they go to college they turn out well. I know more professionals (Dr/Lawyer etc..) that took the tennis route then most other sports.

Independence, Confidence, Drive, Responsibility .......

I am still amazed @7-8-9 score, rules, play, manage all these kids do.

This will probably not be a popular post because this is a tennis discussion board but here it goes...

I don't think that tennis is the reason that tennis kids become high-level professionals. I think the reason is that tennis kids come from more affluent backgrounds than football kids, basketball kids, etc. The family's wealth and support allow these kids to be tennis kids and allow these kids to become successful professionals. I don't think tennis gives kids any more or less independence, confidence, drive, reponsibility than most other sports.

I hear this same argument from my kids' swim coaches, gymnastics coaches, etc.

 

[seminoleG]

This will probably not be a popular post because this is a tennis discussion board but here it goes...

I don't think that tennis is the reason that tennis kids become high-level professionals. I think the reason is that tennis kids come from more affluent backgrounds than football kids, basketball kids, etc. The family's wealth and support allow these kids to be tennis kids and allow these kids to become successful professionals. I don't think tennis gives kids any more or less independence, confidence, drive, reponsibility than most other sports.

I hear this same argument from my kids' swim coaches, gymnastics coaches, etc.

I don't get the feeling the folks on this board are Tennis Zealots. Your comments are a fair POV.

I used Tennis as an example for Girls as it would be considered the Pinnacle of Sport for girls (Highest Pro earnings). I Played Football with at least 5 sons of very wealthy folks and not one of them ammounted to much. I am not sure they even graduated, probably finished later.

I see your point, and consider the number of home schooled kids in Tennis resources have a major part. These resources IMHO make my point even more as these kids are on their own a good portion of the time.

Our well to do kids have very little hands on from the parents. Seems the Blue Collar parents are on top of the kids a bit more.

 

[tennis5]

competitive council in FL does not think so

http://www.ustajacksonville.com/ust..._10_and_under_tennis_rule_tournament_changes/

==============

Q: Why did the Junior Council reduce the designated tournament draw sizes?

..... In order for players to develop and improve they need to play in highly-competitive matches. The USTA High Performance Development staff recommended a ratio of 3 out of every 4 matches to be competitive (6-4, 6-4 or closer defines a competitive match). On an average, the Level 4 and Level 5 Florida tournaments had a competitive match ratio of 1 out of every 4. Previously there were far too many 0-0 matches to benefit either player.

==================

Interesting question, but why does the USTA High Performance Development staff get to weigh in on tournament draw sizes?

Does the USTA High Performance Development represent all players trying to get in to the tournaments?

"In order for players to develop and improve they need to play in highly-competitive matches." Does this quote apply to everyone? Or just to their players?

When you pay your USTA dues,
did you know all benefits would go to a select few tennis players?

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

==============

Q: Why did the Junior Council reduce the designated tournament draw sizes?

..... In order for players to develop and improve they need to play in highly-competitive matches. The USTA High Performance Development staff recommended a ratio of 3 out of every 4 matches to be competitive (6-4, 6-4 or closer defines a competitive match). On an average, the Level 4 and Level 5 Florida tournaments had a competitive match ratio of 1 out of every 4. Previously there were far too many 0-0 matches to benefit either player.

==================

Interesting question, but why does the USTA High Performance Development staff get to weigh in on tournament draw sizes?

Does the USTA High Performance Development represent all players trying to get in to the tournaments?

"In order for players to develop and improve they need to play in highly-competitive matches." Does this quote apply to everyone? Or just to their players?

When you pay your USTA dues,
did you know all benefits would go to a select few tennis players?

my sons dues are $19 per year,

so he can play team tennis at first,

we also get free stuff and discounts on US open and pilot pen tickets, I think it is worth it.

When I pay all my taxes ( $45,000 per year) i would hate to know where all my benefits are going,

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

This will probably not be a popular post because this is a tennis discussion board but here it goes...

I don't think that tennis is the reason that tennis kids become high-level professionals. I think the reason is that tennis kids come from more affluent backgrounds than football kids, basketball kids, etc. The family's wealth and support allow these kids to be tennis kids and allow these kids to become successful professionals. I don't think tennis gives kids any more or less independence, confidence, drive, reponsibility than most other sports.

I hear this same argument from my kids' swim coaches, gymnastics coaches, etc.

I was thinking the same thing. In general tennis kids are from more affluent homes. So naturally more go on to land decent jobs. Same with swim kids, field hockey girls, etc.

Yes tennis can teach independence and other positive things. But it can also be full of snobs and cheaters and pitty patting for wins and many delusions of grandeur. Good and bad lessons.

In the end, a good parent or parents, or another mentor like a coach, helps produce solid kids, no matter if they play tennis or are devoted academic kids who play no sports.

 

[NLBwell]

Yes tennis can teach independence and other positive things. But it can also be full of snobs and cheaters and pitty patting for wins and many delusions of grandeur. Good and bad lessons.
.

Part of growing up is learning how to deal with problems - and problem people.

I think competing in any sport is good for kids. One of mine loved skiing, another loved football and piano. I did a lot of skiing and helped coach football (and other sports). Couldn't help with the piano - he taught himself. I would have loved hitting balls with them, and did some of that - the younger was a natural - but that wasn't what they really loved doing.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

Part of growing up is learning how to deal with problems - and problem people.

Sort of, but some situations are not indicative of the real world. For example, if you send kids to a school full of bullies and little supervision, and they are trapped there for 6 hours a day, thats not what they will face down the road. They can pick their college, their job, and choose which "problem" people to let into their lives. A school with no other choice makes them helpless, as adults they have freedom to decide their fates....so those lessons learned as kids are worthless in the real world.

My kids are home schooled. They deal with problem people but also are learning how and when to exclude those people whose actions are destructive from their lives. That to me is an infinitely more valuable lesson.

Junior tennis, the only sport for either adult or for kids, that allows opponents to cheat with no refs to intervene, isn't indicative of real world sports either.

 

[jmdlaw]

Sort of, but some situations are not indicative of the real world. For example, if you send kids to a school full of bullies and little supervision, and they are trapped there for 6 hours a day, thats not what they will face down the road. They can pick their college, their job, and choose which "problem" people to let into their lives. A school with no other choice makes them helpless, as adults they have freedom to decide their fates....so those lessons learned as kids are worthless in the real world.

My kids are home schooled. They deal with problem people but also are learning how and when to exclude those people whose actions are destructive from their lives. That to me is an infinitely more valuable lesson.

Junior tennis, the only sport for either adult or for kids, that allows opponents to cheat with no refs to intervene, isn't indicative of real world sports either.

Didn't realize you had more than one child. Do all play or just your daughter that you speak of. (Just curious )

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

Didn't realize you had more than one child. Do all play or just your daughter that you speak of. (Just curious )

We have one other, with zero interests in sports. Does not like tennis even a tiny little bit and thinks it is the silliest thing ever invented!

 

[jmdlaw]

We have one other, with zero interests in sports. Does not like tennis even a tiny little bit and thinks it is the silliest thing ever invented!

Its interesting to witness the dynamics of siblings. You and your daughter are so passionate about the sport and the other goes in the other direction.
Funny.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

Its interesting to witness the dynamics of siblings. You and your daughter are so passionate about the sport and the other goes in the other direction.
Funny.

Yup, imagine if the Bryan brothers had been this opposite!

 

[Erman]

was wondering if you had any information on IMG weekly camps and which of the options is the best? It seems that if you're in Florida you may have heard or experienced what they have to offer.

 

[cmb]

the USTA will still never address how expensive it is to travel to the tournaments and play enough to get a decent ranking.

In europe last year, my brother played almost 100 matches in around 35 tournaments and spent under 3000 euros. In reality he did not spend anything because he made quite a bit more then the 3k in prize money.
if your average French person had to spend 50000$ traveling around for a year, I guarantee u there would be no tennis.

 

[NLBwell]

Sort of, but some situations are not indicative of the real world. For example, if you send kids to a school full of bullies and little supervision, and they are trapped there for 6 hours a day, thats not what they will face down the road. They can pick their college, their job, and choose which "problem" people to let into their lives. .

Well, I went to a high school with about 1/2 ghetto kids, chains on the door, searches for weapons (a lot of kids carried them -some for attack, some for defense), racial fights, and race riots. As about the smallest guy in the school, I was an easy target. High school was not a pleasant experience, but I learned to avoid situations, stand up for myself, not back down against big odds, talk myself out of trouble, and fight my way out of trouble. I don't know if it was good or bad for me, but it was definitely different. My kids, and pretty much most anyone who grew up in white-bread suburbs just don't have some level of toughness and maybe even meanness that was learned.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

Well, I went to a high school with about 1/2 ghetto kids, chains on the door, searches for weapons (a lot of kids carried them -some for attack, some for defense), racial fights, and race riots. As about the smallest guy in the school, I was an easy target. High school was not a pleasant experience, but I learned to avoid situations, stand up for myself, not back down against big odds, talk myself out of trouble, and fight my way out of trouble. I don't know if it was good or bad for me, but it was definitely different. My kids, and pretty much most anyone who grew up in white-bread suburbs just don't have some level of toughness and maybe even meanness that was learned.

I think you are generalizing. My dad's 7 siblings and mom's 5 grew up in tough circumstances. Some are tough, some not. I have seen suburban kids undergo work outs for today's football teams that would make grown men cry 30 years ago.

Every generation likes to think they were tougher and this or that. I know lots of 70 year old's who have been wimps forever, and plenty of 20 year olds serving overseas who grew up in white suburbia, and they are tough as nails. They better be, chances are they will have no SS or medicare to fall back on like past generations.

 

[seminoleG]

OK First Hand knowledge: If the USTA is about developing Juniors Soup - Nuts then a well known instructor ask how do we eliminate regulation tennis for 10s

TCF - You'll know who I'm talking about.

This well known Academy has been featured in all the QS hooplaa. He has been talking with USTA Florida:

"What are we going to do with our High Performance 8-9-10's?" Playing QS is not an option and 12s is just not fair for development"

He referenced what is happened in Georgia, 12s Locals filled with 10s and so on as an example of a Gap that needs filling.

Finally evidence that not only Parents/Tennis Centers/Tournament Directors/ but now Established Academies are asking the same question. I believe that in Jan 2012 the USTA will ammend its decision and have a 10s Regulation system in place outside of QS.

I post this because:
1- He was featured as a QS Supporter
2- He has developed many top juniors
3- He does not use QS ball/Equipment
4- If public his comments would hurt the USTA's QS Campaign

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

OK First Hand knowledge: If the USTA is about developing Juniors Soup - Nuts then a well known instructor ask how do we eliminate regulation tennis for 10s

TCF - You'll know who I'm talking about.

This well known Academy has been featured in all the QS hooplaa. He has been talking with USTA Florida:

"What are we going to do with our High Performance 8-9-10's?" Playing QS is not an option and 12s is just not fair for development"

He referenced what is happened in Georgia, 12s Locals filled with 10s and so on as an example of a Gap that needs filling.

Finally evidence that not only Parents/Tennis Centers/Tournament Directors/ but now Established Academies are asking the same question. I believe that in Jan 2012 the USTA will ammend its decision and have a 10s Regulation system in place outside of QS.

I post this because:
1- He was featured as a QS Supporter
2- He has developed many top juniors
3- He does not use QS ball/Equipment
4- If public his comments would hurt the USTA's QS Campaign

I hear you. He may believe in it for the masses, but not for many FL 10s.

 

[seminoleG]

I hear you. He may believe in it for the masses, but not for many FL 10s.

We'll maybe you'll get a chance to ask him this summer.

 

[tennis5]

Maybe, they could also ammend the limited draws too in Jan 2012?
Aging up now is a nightmare.
Unless you are part of their game and get a golden ticket
which they did increase....

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

We'll maybe you'll get a chance to ask him this summer.

Yes, I am counting the days until we can move down there. Tennis is PBGs is very lame!

 

[seminoleG]

Maybe, they could also ammend the limited draws too in Jan 2012?
Aging up now is a nightmare.
Unless you are part of their game and get a golden ticket
which they did increase....

OK more of the story. USTA FLA gives a WC to a G10 to play in the
Spring Nationals Clay 12s. Now this is a good 10yo and rarely drops a game in the 10s and can play with 12s.

So not only do they give a WC but they write a little story on how she is one to watch.

We'll she gets a solid beating in the 12s and if this is one of the best 10s it will take a prodigy to compete in the 12s.

I guess compete = sign up and pay for tournament

That said I have noticed until this happend "Just Play up in the 12s" was the answer to eliminating the 10s. "Most of the competitive ones play up in the 12s now anyway" OK USTA if the Best 10 can't win a round then why waste time money?

IMHO This is why her instructor is addressing the USTA on this.

 

[tennis5]

OK more of the story. USTA FLA gives a WC to a G10 to play in the
Spring Nationals Clay 12s. Now this is a good 10yo and rarely drops a game in the 10s and can play with 12s.

So not only do they give a WC but they write a little story on how she is one to watch.

We'll she gets a solid beating in the 12s and if this is one of the best 10s it will take a prodigy to compete in the 12s.

I guess compete = sign up and pay for tournament

That said I have noticed until this happend "Just Play up in the 12s" was the answer to eliminating the 10s. "Most of the competitive ones play up in the 12s now anyway" OK USTA if the Best 10 can't win a round then why waste time money?

IMHO This is why her instructor is addressing the USTA on this.[/QUOTE

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Glad you are on my page..

If there is a big difference physically for a girl, assume the same or worse for a boy.

Play up they say....

Oh... but how do you get in? The draws are 32.... and the top ranked kids from the younger years can't get in....

Except for the lucky few who get the wild card.

Someone outside of tennis asked me what the USTA is like for juniors.

Although, I have never been there, it reminds me of the Russian oligarchy.

Big perks and lavish money for the few inside, and zip for the poor rest of the majority.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

You guys are 100% correct. Playing up does not work in FL. The talented 10s may be epic talents in other places, but when they play up, there are 12s here that are even bigger and way better.

With all the intense tennis here, kids develop fast, the difference between age 9 and 11 here is huge. So even a talented 10 gets owned in the 12s.

Thats why RM wants reg 10s back.

 

[tennis5]

Wait lists for National May Tournaments:
( a very random sample)

It is hard to play up....It is also hard to get in.... for boys, the wait lists are excessive.


14:

99 boys wait list - College Park, Maryland, Boys 14
74 girls wait list - College Park, Maryland, Boys 14

57 boys wait list - Fresno, California, Boys 14

---------------------------------------------------------

16:

104 boys wait list - Norman, OK, Boys 16
81 girls wait list - Norman, OK, Girls 16


90 boys wait list - Elk Grove, CA, Boys 16
67 girls wait list - Elk Grove, CA, Girls 16

 

[NLBwell]

I think you are generalizing. My dad's 7 siblings and mom's 5 grew up in tough circumstances. Some are tough, some not. I have seen suburban kids undergo work outs for today's football teams that would make grown men cry 30 years ago.

Every generation likes to think they were tougher and this or that. I know lots of 70 year old's who have been wimps forever, and plenty of 20 year olds serving overseas who grew up in white suburbia, and they are tough as nails. They better be, chances are they will have no SS or medicare to fall back on like past generations.

Hard to describe exactly what the difference is. My 2nd son was Army Special Forces - it's not that kind of toughness - its an edge (or edginess) that is hard to describe. My mom grew up in rural Mississippi in the depression, sometimes without enough food to eat. She has that edge. My dad, decorated Air Force officer who flew dangerous missions in Vietnam, not as much.

I don't know if it really makes any difference. The Serbians who went through the bombing as little kids and the Russians who went through the change from Communism have been very succesful in pro tennis. However, the Swedes were too and Sweden was comparatively lotus-land.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

Hard to describe exactly what the difference is. My 2nd son was Army Special Forces - it's not that kind of toughness - its an edge (or edginess) that is hard to describe. My mom grew up in rural Mississippi in the depression, sometimes without enough food to eat. She has that edge. My dad, decorated Air Force officer who flew dangerous missions in Vietnam, not as much.

I don't know if it really makes any difference. The Serbians who went through the bombing as little kids and the Russians who went through the change from Communism have been very successful in pro tennis. However, the Swedes were too and Sweden was comparatively lotus-land.

Okay, so its something person to person, not generational though. Like I said, 12 aunts and uncles, all raised in the depression, some tough, some wimps.

The Serbians who succeeded are from relatively affluent backgrounds usually. Djokovic's family for example was very well off by their standards. Ivanovic's dad is a successful businessman, she fell in love with tennis watching Seles on TV. Why did they succeed when other poorer kids played tennis and had it even tougher as kids? Did bombings matter or was it having a tennis role model like Seles and the family money to get some coaching?

I hear what you are saying, but its a person to person thing. I have taught sets of brothers and had one who has the edge, one does not. I believe that edge can be taught by parents who start at a very young age. Jimmy Connors had it, his mom insisted on it from a very young age.

 

[chalkflewup]

You guys are 100% correct. Playing up does not work in FL. The talented 10s may be epic talents in other places, but when they play up, there are 12s here that are even bigger and way better.

With all the intense tennis here, kids develop fast, the difference between age 9 and 11 here is huge. So even a talented 10 gets owned in the 12s.

Thats why RM wants reg 10s back.

Playing up does work for some kids. I'm not saying that it's for everyone, however; I know many kids in Florida that played up in the 12s when they were 10 and with success.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

Playing up does work for some kids. I'm not saying that it's for everyone, however; I know many kids in Florida that played up in the 12s when they were 10 and with success.

True. Those kids will always be good enough to do that. We are talking about the big block of kids just under that level, not quite that good but too good for QS. When that block of kids tries to play up and runs into not only the talented 10s but the killer older kids, they get demolished.

 

[justinmadison]

Wait lists for National May Tournaments:
( a very random sample)
It is hard to play up....It is also hard to get in.... for boys, the wait lists are excessive.

The wait list is a good indication of the problem kids face playing up at the National Level. What is even more important is the ranking/ability of the last selected player. If you look at the L2 held in SoCal in 16s the last selected player in the L2 National can beat anyone in 14s outside of the top 5 guys. The top 5 guys have a chance of winning if they get a good draw. I looked at the last set of 4 L2 tournaments and only one of the 14s accepted into the 16s using their 14s ranking won a match, and that was a back draw match.

If the draws are so small there is no overlap in ability between age groups then you cannot transition. It is that simple.

 

[BMC9670]

True. Those kids will always be good enough to do that. We are talking about the big block of kids just under that level, not quite that good but too good for QS. When that block of kids tries to play up and runs into not only the talented 10s but the killer older kids, they get demolished.

True. My 9yo needs to play against the talented 10s that are playing up otherwise he can't get good matches. He plays up to 12s on his club team, but the level is lower than tournament players and the tennis is not as good. There is no way I would want him to play 12s team tennis and 10 QS at the same time - changing balls, rackets, and court depending on the day? Disaster. Besides, QS in our section is poorly attended and the level is beginner.

(This is where ProTour chimes in with a green ball plug. Just to preempt, I'm on board if it were only available. Next year is too late. He'll be a talented 10 playing up.)