Could Djokovic nudge Nadal into 3rd place in the GOAT debate?

[dominikk1985]

As of right now, his GS titles aren't particularly diverse, they are predominantly AO titles.

but IF (big if) he gets to 14 it is likely that he has 5 or 6 AO, 2 FO, 3-4 wimbledon and at least 3 USO. I don't think he gets to 14 by winning 7 more AO. that would be much more diverse than nadals 1/9/2/2.

right now of course nadal has a much better resumee (among others the double career slam which neither nadal nor fed have achieved yet).

 

[clayqueen]

but IF (big if) he gets to 14 it is likely that he has 5 or 6 AO, 2 FO, 3-4 wimbledon and at least 3 USO. I don't think he gets to 14 by winning 7 more AO. that would be much more diverse than nadals 1/9/2/2.

right now of course nadal has a much better resumee (among others the double career slam which neither nadal nor fed have achieved yet).

Neither Nole or Fed have achieved.

 

[willhunting]

Neither Nole or Fed have achieved.

nor
10 char

 

[Gary Duane]

If Djokovic wins another 7 slams and Nadal stays at 14 or heaven forbid Djokovic tops out at 15 how would we judge them in the GOAT pecking order?

Fed won 5 slams between the start of 2008 (age 27) and now. To expect Novak to do better than that is probably unreasonable, but if he starts by winning the AO, which is very possible, he would win another if he matches Fed's pace. I would not rule that out as possible. But I do think this style is more physical, so to do that he needs to do what Fed has done, strengthen his net game and learn to end points faster.

At this time it seems unlikely to me that Rafa will be the same factor in the future as he was in the past, first of all because he is a year older, second because his body is wearing down. Rafa will not change his style of play. I don't think he can.

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

Federer is the best player since Adam met Eve.

Only in your mind.

No Grand Slam, no best player. Being the best was not Federer's calling.

 

[Midaso240]

LMAO another 7 majors? Is OP serious? Djokovic is clearly well past halfway in his time as a top slam contending player

 

[helloworld]

Only in your mind.

No Grand Slam, no best player. Being the best was not Federer's calling.

So if a guy wins 4 slams in 1 year and just disappear forever, you would call him the best player? :shock:

The Grand Slam looks great on a player's resume, but it's still 4 slams IMO.

 

[FedTheMan]

So if a guy wins 4 slams in 1 year and just disappear forever, you would call him the best player? :shock:

The Grand Slam looks great on a player's resume, but it's still 4 slams IMO.

Nice post. I know that you rile Fed fans cause some of them talk smack about Sampras but I think you are all right. BTW, I love Sampras' game and he and Fed would have great matches Peak for Peak IMO

 

[Backspin1183]

Sure :lol: He should stop double faulting on championship points in Grand Slam finals when he's playing Nadal. That would help too. Just my two cents.

 

[kandamrgam]

How can Nadal be considered the best in slams since 2005 when Fed won 3 slams in 2006 and 2007?

Because since 2005 there were more years than 2006 and 2007. The world didnt end there, no? Since 2005 Rafa has won the most no. of GS. Just to show the momentum.

 

[BringBackSV]

but IF (big if) he gets to 14 it is likely that he has 5 or 6 AO, 2 FO, 3-4 wimbledon and at least 3 USO. I don't think he gets to 14 by winning 7 more AO. that would be much more diverse than nadals 1/9/2/2.

right now of course nadal has a much better resumee (among others the double career slam which neither nadal nor fed have achieved yet).

Well, we'd have to wait and see what the distribution of those titles would be, though I get your point. As of now, he has 7 and I will leave it at that.

 

[The_Mental_Giant]

If Djokovic wins another 7 slams and Nadal stays at 14 or heaven forbid Djokovic tops out at 15 how would we judge them in the GOAT pecking order?

Granted, at this juncture this scenario looks like an unlikely outcome, but if Nadal starts to fade and Djokovic continues to show this good form when there is frankly such little new talent of apparent promise, this scenario may gain traction. If Djokovic wins 3 slams next year as many fans of all fan bases acknowledge as a possibility, we will be hearing a lot more of this type of stuff.

Federer fans can take a comfortable back seat on this one!

Not a chance, Djokovic is not a Slam type of player, he is much better at m1000 and yec.

So he is likely to reach 14 by the time rafa reach 25.

 

[The Green Mile]

No. The slam difference is way too big to be talking about scenarios like this.

 

[FanOfLu]

Might as well discuss whether Cilic can catch up to Djokovic, after all 6 is less than 7. LMAO.

 

[The_Mental_Giant]

With the talentless and or brainless players that are coming up.. I see no reason why at this point. Nole seems to be showing no real signs of slowing down.

Barring a big health issue, Nole can manage another 6-8 slams. Who's gonna stop Nole except Nadal exactly if Nole is motivated? NO ONE!!!

Nole is a better BO3 player, he can lose to many players at slams. I'd be surprised if nole breaks the 10 slam mark.

 

[The_Mental_Giant]

No. The slam difference is way too big to be talking about scenarios like this.

If we look at this , rafa has skyped 3 of the last 9 slams, yet he has won 3 slams out of 6, compared 2 out of 9 novak has played..


Even after USO 2010, rafa was 9-1 vs slams against djokovic = +8 advantage in slam count.

Now after all the hype of djokovic peaking in 2011 and being 3 YE1 out of the last 4 years, there isnt much of difference rafa is 14-7 = +7, even though he skipped 3 slams in the process, and djokovic played all of them....

The logic says if Rafa manages to play more often as slams he can recover the +8 difference or even increase the highest gap that they ever had..

 

[jm1980]

This is ridiculous.

Novak needs to win at least 7 more slams (including RG) to "nudge Nadal into 3rd place." And that's assuming Nadal doesn't win another slam, which is unlikely.

Not happening.

 

[The_Order]

Could he? Yes.

Will he? Probably not.

 

[The_Mental_Giant]

This is ridiculous.

Novak needs to win at least 7 more slams (including RG) to "nudge Nadal into 3rd place." And that's assuming Nadal doesn't win another slam, which is unlikely.

Not happening.

The logic says Rafa will win more slams than NOvak from now, at least if you look at the last 9 slams rafa has won more and skipping 1/3 of them. Djokovic isnt a BO5 player, he prefers indoor courts with BO3 format.

I expect them to end with a gap of about 9 slams in favor to the Spaniard

 

[harryz]

Top three of this generation only

Too many greats over the past century to have a GOAT or even top three. Too many variables to consider...

HZ

 

[Deleted member 733170]

So who's the 1st and 2nd place in GOAT debate? Let me guess, 1st Federer and 2nd Federer for you.

Haha an amusing assumption...

But No 1would be Federer and No 2 Nadal. I was a big fan of Sampras but feel that not only has Federer surpassed him in terms of achievements, but Federer has much tighter strokes and form. In fact I saw him close up at a practise court this week hitting with Edberg and was dazzled by how little physical effort went into his shots.

I also agree with your comments about the CYGS. A great achievement for sure, but ultimately just 4 grand slams and nothing more.

 

[The_Mental_Giant]

Too many greats over the past century to have a GOAT or even top three. Too many variables to consider...

HZ

SAFIN is the goat.

 

[Deleted member 733170]

Federer is the best player since Adam met Eve.

Yikes Tennisaddict, that implies Adam is the GOAT!

 

[Deleted member 733170]

Top 2 in GOAT debate are Pancho and Laver.



Fortunately one of the things me and NatF can agree on

You guys must love the black and white movies....!

 

[Deleted member 733170]

This is ridiculous.

Novak needs to win at least 7 more slams (including RG) to "nudge Nadal into 3rd place." And that's assuming Nadal doesn't win another slam, which is unlikely.

Not happening.

As ridiculous as this currently seems, if Djokovic wins the Aussie followed by RG, he will have Nadal in his sights for the rest of his career. We will also hear a lot of other people chime in on this subject should Djokovic make it to 9 by the half way point of next year.

Chance of Djokovic equalling Nadal is about 15% in my vague opinion.

 

[RF-18]

Djokovic can pass nadal in many other things, and already has on some important records. Soon Nadal will only have the GS titles in his advantage when comparing him to nole.

 

[The_Mental_Giant]

Djokovic can pass nadal in many other things, and already has on some important records. Soon Nadal will only have the GS titles in his advantage when comparing him to nole.

Soon?

Nadal has 7 more m1000
17 more atp titles
6 more GS finals
Olympic gold
Career/Golden Slam

Nobody can say how long Nole will hold the 1 or wether he will be YE1 more times.

Nole obviously only lead in the YEC department.

Plus the age difference between Nole and Rafa is only 1 year, not 5 years like between Fed and Rafa

 

[RF-18]

Soon?

Nadal has 7 more m1000
17 more atp titles
6 more GS finals
Olympic gold
Career/Golden Slam

Nobody can say how long Nole will hold the 1 or wether he will be YE1 more times.

Nole obviously only lead in the YEC department.

Plus the age difference between Nole and Rafa is only 1 year, not 5 years like between Fed and Rafa

In a couple of months he can have his career/golden slam.

7 m1000 is not that far away TBH.

He can surpass him in h2h, he has more year end number one, way more WTFs titles. Soon he will pass him in weeks at number one etc. Soo...

 

[The Green Mile]

In a couple of months he can have his career/golden slam.

7 m1000 is not that far away TBH.

He can surpass him in h2h, he has more year end number one, way more WTFs titles. Soon he will pass him in weeks at number one etc. Soo...

Nadal also has three. 08,10,13. He is 20 weeks behind Nadal right now as well. And 7 M1000 is quite a big margin.

 

[The_Mental_Giant]

In a couple of months he can have his career/golden slam.

7 m1000 is not that far away TBH.

He can surpass him in h2h, he has more year end number one, way more WTFs titles. Soon he will pass him in weeks at number one etc. Soo...

So he is going to Win RG even after failing in his absolute peak and being 0-6 against Rafa there? LOL

Djokovic won 2 of the last 11 slams even so rafa was absent in 3 of them....

Yeah he is pretty much likely to surpass him in few months, both in h2h, m1000, calendar slam LOL

good trolling

 

[tennisaddict]

Yikes Tennisaddict, that implies Adam is the GOAT!

Adam was the first GOAT. But Fed beat him there as well with twin twins and one kind each time.

 

[Djokovic2011]

I think Djokovic will get to 8-10 slams, if he did get to 14 and won the FO you would probably have to place him higher then Nadal with WTF, weeks at number 1.

Lol, Djokovic wouldn't need to get to 14 Slams to be considered greater than Nadal, not if he has at least 11 Slams(including RG), more WTFs, YE#1, weeks at #1 and better overall consistency. Nadal's Masters record isn't set in stone either.

 

[MichaelNadal]

No. The slam difference is way too big to be talking about scenarios like this.

Hey, let them stare out of their Tier 2 window at Mt. Olympus with all the champagne wishes and caviar dreams they desire

 

[Djokovic2011]

Hey, let them stare out of their Tier 2 window at Mt. Olympus with all the champagne wishes and caviar dreams they desire

McEnroe said yesterday that Novak's one of the all time greats of the sport.

 

[willhunting]

McEnroe said yesterday that Novak's one of the all time greats of the sport.

Mac's views change more often than the weather.

 

[FanOfLu]

Lol, Djokovic wouldn't need to get to 14 Slams to be considered greater than Nadal, not if he has at least 11 Slams(including RG), more WTFs, YE#1, weeks at #1 and better overall consistency. Nadal's Masters record isn't set in stone either.

 

[veroniquem]

Djoko could get in the same ballpark for time at #1 and of course he has those WTF titles. He could also get close in master titles. The slams is where it is hard to conceive he could ever match Nadal. He would have to double his current #. At 27? Hard to imagine. Although Agassi did it: he won more slams after 27 than before. Lendl also won half his slams after 27 but nobody so far has won as many as 7 at 27+:
Agassi, Federer: 5
Rosewall, Lendl: 4
Sampras, Connors: 3

notwithstanding the fact that Nadal could win some more slams too...

 

[The_Mental_Giant]

Lol, Djokovic wouldn't need to get to 14 Slams to be considered greater than Nadal, not if he has at least 11 Slams(including RG), more WTFs, YE#1, weeks at #1 and better overall consistency. Nadal's Masters record isn't set in stone either.

lol, 3 slam gap is too much

And its considering that rafa stays in the same slam/title count.

How many people consider Lendl better than Borg?
Lendl
8 slams/ 19 slam finals
5 YEC
23 m1000
270 weeks at 1 / 5 YE1
94 atp titles

Borg

11 slams / 16 finals
2 YEC
15 m1000
109 weeks at 1 / 2 YE1
64 atp titles


Lendl has 3 more YEC, 8 more m1000/masters , more than twice weeks at 1 (161 weeks more), 3 YE1 more, and 30 more atp titles, yet he is considered nowhere near Borg in terms of all time-great rankings.


3 slams gap is too much

had djokovic 100 atp titles, 5-6 YE1 (with 250 weeks at 1), 30 m1000, 6 YEC but only 11 slams, people would still see him in lower tier than rafa.... and Its even considering rafa didnt win a thing from now...




You could do the same with connoers vs Borg, and nobody consider connors close to Borg in terms of Greatness and All-time-great level.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Why that image? Slams aren't everything you know. Many people still put Navratilova over Graf and there's a 4 Slam gap between them.

 

[Alfred Chicken]

Mac's views change more often than the weather.

McEnroe is the McMahon of tennis.

 

[veroniquem]

McEnroe said yesterday that Novak's one of the all time greats of the sport.

Of course he is. Do you know how many guys in open era have had 3 year ends at #1 (including consecutive ones)? Only 5: Connors, McEnroe, Lendl, Sampras and Djoko.

 

[Djokovic2011]

lol, 3 slam gap is too much

And its considering that rafa stays in the same slam/title count.

How many people consider Lendl better than Borg?
Lendl
8 slams/ 19 slam finals
5 YEC
23 m1000
270 weeks at 1 / 5 YE1
94 atp titles

Borg

11 slams / 16 finals
2 YEC
15 m1000
109 weeks at 1 / 2 YE1
64 atp titles


Lendl has 3 more YEC, 8 more m1000/masters , more than twice weeks at 1 (161 weeks more), 3 YE1 more, and 30 more atp titles, yet he is considered nowhere near Borg in terms of all time-great rankings.


3 slams gap is too much

had djokovic 100 atp titles, 5-6 YE1 (with 250 weeks at 1), 30 m1000, 6 YEC but only 11 slams, people would still see him in lower tier than rafa.... and Its even considering rafa didnt win a thing from now...




You could do the same with connoers vs Borg, and nobody consider connors close to Borg in terms of Greatness and All-time-great level.

If Djokovic had stats like that on his resume, even with 3 less Slams, I doubt anyone would put him below Nadal.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Mac's views change more often than the weather.

You don't agree with him?

 

[The_Mental_Giant]

McEnroe said yesterday that Novak's one of the all time greats of the sport.

yes ... even edberg and becker are all time greats, which doesnt mean they are on the same level of the likes of Federer, Laver, Nadal or Sampras...


Djokovic is still below mcenroe, and considerably below agassi... let alone Lendl or Connors.


I rate Djokovic Between Wilander and Mcenroe in terms of greatness..

1) Federer, Laver, Sampras/Nadal, Borg

2) Lendl, Connors

3) Agassi, Mcenroe, Djokovic

4) WIlander, Becker, Edberg


Djokovic is 10 at the moment... He has potential to become anywhere between 6-8.

 

[Djokovic2011]

but IF (big if) he gets to 14 it is likely that he has 5 or 6 AO, 2 FO, 3-4 wimbledon and at least 3 USO. I don't think he gets to 14 by winning 7 more AO. that would be much more diverse than nadals 1/9/2/2.

right now of course nadal has a much better resumee (among others the double career slam which neither nadal nor fed have achieved yet).

Nadal has a much better Slam resume(though not necessarily more balanced) but in all other departments Djokovic is actually very close to him.

 

[Djokovic2011]

yes ... even edberg and becker are all time greats, which doesnt mean they are on the same level of the likes of Federer, Laver, Nadal or Sampras...


Djokovic is still below mcenroe, and considerably below agassi... let alone Lendl or Connors.


I rate Djokovic Between Wilander and Mcenroe in terms of greatness..

1) Federer, Laver, Sampras/Nadal, Borg

2) Lendl, Connors

3) Agassi, Mcenroe, Djokovic

4) WIlander, Becker, Edberg


Djokovic is 10 at the moment... He has potential to become anywhere between 6-8.

LOL at Djokovic being "considerably below Agassi". He's probably above him already, just shows how little you know about the sport.

 

[willhunting]

You don't agree with him?

He's not in my top 5 best players ever, if that's what you're asking.

 

[FanOfLu]

If Djokovic had stats like that on his resume, even with 3 less Slams, I doubt anyone would put him below Nadal.

NOPE. 14 will always be greater than 11. Just like if Nadal gets to 15 he will definitely be greater than Sampras without any doubt.

 

[newpball]

If Djokovic wins 3 slams next year ....

I think that's a bit too optimistic.

If Djokovic wins the 2015 FO that would already be a big achievement for him.

:grin:

 

[willhunting]

LOL at Djokovic being "considerably below Agassi". He's probably above him already, just shows how little you know about the sport.

I'm sorry but does Djokovic have a career grand slam? Please, let me know.