Could Federer have extended his career till 2023-24 if he had done some things differently ?

Could Federer have extended his career till 2023-24 if he had done some things differently ?


  • Total voters
    44

Razer

G.O.A.T.
Federer vs Alcaraz / Federer vs Sinner in a Grand Slam Semi Final would have been a sight to behold like Connors vs Courier / Connors vs Chang.

It makes me wonder, could he have done things differently to not get his knee injured ? His hand eye co-ordination is probably still top 10 even now..



 

NeutralFan

G.O.A.T.
Unfortunately you don't have control over injury. One thing that could have worked for Fed was he didn't lose his speed as drastically as Rafa did and might have nabbed a slam or two if he was as fit as Wimbledon 2019, also thanks for JC's epic point , he was competing in his late 30s when 29 was considered off prime and players would retired at 30-31.
 
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Robert F

Hall of Fame
I think his knee was toast and nothing could really be done outside of the surgery and rehab he attempted.
Seems he hit the surgeon's table too much and nothing was good enough to create enough stability.
Even at his last Laver Cup it was clear his knee was still effecting his mobility.

If you were going to say what could save his knee, some of the knee injuries are just bad luck and a combination of wear and tear.
Didn't he tear a meniscus while kneeling to give his kids a bath? I tore mine just on a simple split step.
Maybe the only answer would be to reduce his wear and tear on his knees by reducing his on court time earlier on in his career. But then you might rob Peter to pay Paul.
Less sucess earlier on to play 2-3 years later.

Oddly, we might see some combination of genetherapy, stem cell injections and limited knee replacements that will extend many athlete's lives in the near future. But too late for Fed and...me.
 

dking68

Legend
Unfortunately you don't have control over injury. One thing that could have worked for Fed was he didn't lose his speed as drastically as Rafa did and might have napped a slam or two if he was as fit as Wimbledon 2019, also thanks for JC's epic point , he was competing in his late 30s when 29 was considered off prime and players would retired at 30-31.
I don’t see Carlos making it past 30
 

FlyingSaucer

Semi-Pro
A theory presented on MTF a couple of months ago: Federer's knees woes are likely caused by excessive lateral movement, thus his running around the backhand is the main culprit. So, it looks like Hypothetical Fed needs a better BH to cross the 40-plus-and-still-competitive threshold. Don't know how sound the theory is, though. I believe there is a Djo fan on this board who is a physician?
 

Razer

G.O.A.T.
Unfortunately you don't have control over injury. One thing that could have worked for Fed was he didn't lose his speed as drastically as Rafa did and might have napped a slam or two if he was as fit as Wimbledon 2019, also thanks for JC's epic point , he was competing in his late 30s when 29 was considered off prime and players would retired at 30-31.
I think his knee was toast and nothing could really be done outside of the surgery and rehab he attempted.
Seems he hit the surgeon's table too much and nothing was good enough to create enough stability.
Even at his last Laver Cup it was clear his knee was still effecting his mobility.

If you were going to say what could save his knee, some of the knee injuries are just bad luck and a combination of wear and tear.
Didn't he tear a meniscus while kneeling to give his kids a bath? I tore mine just on a simple split step.
Maybe the only answer would be to reduce his wear and tear on his knees by reducing his on court time earlier on in his career. But then you might rob Peter to pay Paul.
Less sucess earlier on to play 2-3 years later.

Oddly, we might see some combination of genetherapy, stem cell injections and limited knee replacements that will extend many athlete's lives in the near future. But too late for Fed and...me.
Since Jimmy Connors played till 39 in that era of 29 being past prime, we could say today that type of longevity would be like playing till 44 or more, thats why I am wondering if Fed could still be around today if he never got injured. Federer did not care much for his knees we could often see.

See how he is celebrating here, falling like that on his knees and doing this, I have never seen Novak do all this.

404244101_1046730269933634_1068376035807731898_n.png
 

dking68

Legend
Playing style taxing on the body is the biggest lie. Fed's style looked effortless, ran less than Djokodal and Nadal lasted as much as Fed and Djokovic is still going hard. Djokovic is still running like a rabbit playing defense and defending like a wall. this myth needs to die, either your body is injury prone or it's not.
Carlos is not gonna have a long career
 

pirhaksar

Professional
One thing that gets overlooked is Djokovic taking care of his body. It’s not just about playing style but overall conditioning and routine. Djokovic is pretty anal when it comes to what he eats or drinks and his flexibility drills, the whole AO 22 saga for example he was prepared to and eventually did become public enemy 1 for not putting the vaccine in his body. That level of crazy dedication to one’s conditioning may be the difference here
 

Mivic

Hall of Fame
One thing that gets overlooked is Djokovic taking care of his body. It’s not just about playing style but overall conditioning and routine. Djokovic is pretty anal when it comes to what he eats or drinks and his flexibility drills, the whole AO 22 saga for example he was prepared to and eventually did become public enemy 1 for not putting the vaccine in his body. That level of crazy dedication to one’s conditioning may be the difference here
I think flexibility is definitely an overlooked component in these longevity discussions. Dimitrov is another guy who excels in that department and also seems very well preserved for his age from a physical standpoint.
 

NeutralFan

G.O.A.T.
One thing that gets overlooked is Djokovic taking care of his body. It’s not just about playing style but overall conditioning and routine. Djokovic is pretty anal when it comes to what he eats or drinks and his flexibility drills, the whole AO 22 saga for example he was prepared to and eventually did become public enemy 1 for not putting the vaccine in his body. That level of crazy dedication to one’s conditioning may be the difference here

You just described body type. Flexible ,lean elastic body is perfect for baseline tennis. Play style is overrated.
 

Subway Tennis

G.O.A.T.
We can appreciate Sinner's brilliance and his immense talent without talking crap about other players. If Sinner beats Carlos then all talk of him being a weak era champion will surface. You want people to think Sinner is a weak era champion?
I’m the same way on this. I’m appreciating Sinner and Alcaraz equally. If one beats the other it’s probably going to be the result of their level being shockingly high, rather than the opponent being a dud.
 

Robert F

Hall of Fame
Playing style taxing on the body is the biggest lie. Fed's style looked effortless, ran less than Djokodal and Nadal lasted as much as Fed and Djokovic is still going hard. Djokovic is still running like a rabbit playing defense and defending like a wall. this myth needs to die, either your body is injury prone or it's not.
You don't think there are extrinsic factors you can modify that reduce your risk of injury?
Sure certain people are more prone to injury than not, but proper training, nutrition, recovery, training load can make one less likely to have an injury.

As you mention in other posts, some body types are more fit or appropriate for tennis.
I think the Big 3 have been able to have extensive careers because of how professionally they have taken care of themselves, but even with all they've done Father time took Fed and is now taking Nadal.

Djoker certainly seems to being doing it best. Agree genetically his body type is perfect for tennis mobility coupled with his rigorous attention to nutrition and fitness--even if he has tried some odd things.
 

Pheasant

Legend
One thing that I learned during my two separate 6-month stints of rehab on my knees is that weight makes a massive difference. I was told that an extra 5 lbs of body weight adds 50 lbs of force to your knees. I was told to lose as much weight as possible if I planned on continuing on with competitive racquetball. Note: my racquetball matches had me running anywhere from 2.5 to 3.5 miles a match. So let’s say 3.0 miles on average. If I had lost even 5 lbs, then the amount of work reduced would have been 5280 x 3 x 5= 79200 foot pounds less work during a single match. If once you add that up over a career, you get millions of foot pounds of additional work by being 5 lbs heavier.

That being said, Jimmy Connors spent most of his career at 150-155 lbs. That saved his knees big time. Now granted, he didn’t have access to
the exercise plans that were designed to save knees and prevent injuries. But that extremely light weight on his knees helped out immensely.

I’m not sure that Federer had the weight to lose. But any little weight that he could have lost adds up big time. Look at Djoker at 6 foot 2 and only 170-175 lbs. he’s helped himself out a lot with that lightweight frame.

I remember when Federer said that he’d play squash and go downhill skiing during the off-season until mono got him in 2008. I know from personal experience that racquetball and squash are incredibly harsh on the knees. Those surfaces are super-sticky. You don’t slide one bit. And if you did, then you’d clean the surface, since sliding kills your game(but saves your knees).
 

rigged

Semi-Pro
Truly wish he would've not care about his record of "never retire in a match, no matter how injured you are". There are a few matches that, if he had retire from them, he would've extend his career, like the one vs Dimitrov USO19 or the one vs Sandgren AO20.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Since Jimmy Connors played till 39 in that era of 29 being past prime, we could say today that type of longevity would be like playing till 44 or more, thats why I am wondering if Fed could still be around today if he never got injured. Federer did not care much for his knees we could often see.

See how he is celebrating here, falling like that on his knees and doing this, I have never seen Novak do all this.

404244101_1046730269933634_1068376035807731898_n.png
This is in his 20s I think. He should not care. Unrelated to his injuries post 34.

Federer won't be able to do anything. After 17 months he came to play and wasn't fit. Then at laver cup he wasn't fit. After AO 2020 he was never fit to play tennis.
 

ChrisRF

Legend
Truly wish he would've not care about his record of "never retire in a match, no matter how injured you are". There are a few matches that, if he had retire from them, he would've extend his career, like the one vs Dimitrov USO19 or the one vs Sandgren AO20.
He actually won the Sandgren match. It was one of the most legendary matches of his career and it gave him a chance to win the tournament. Remember how good he played in the 1st set against Djokovic in the SF before he unfortunately choked again. He still played for the Slam record, so certainly he wouldn't retire at a Slam. It wasn't pure stubbornness.
 

Razer

G.O.A.T.
This is in his 20s I think. He should not care. Unrelated to his injuries post 34.

Wear and tear on knees is accrued over the years, there is nothing like 20s/30s, you need to take care of your knees at all ages. Any operated knee at any age takes away the natural mobility which god gave you at birth. Infact this is applicable to any joint, shoulder too.
 
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RS

Bionic Poster
Without injury?

He could have some more deepish runs but a slam is a stretch.
 

junior74

Bionic Poster
Unfortunately you don't have control over injury. One thing that could have worked for Fed was he didn't lose his speed as drastically as Rafa did and might have napped a slam or two if he was as fit as Wimbledon 2019, also thanks for JC's epic point , he was competing in his late 30s when 29 was considered off prime and players would retired at 30-31.

Federer had lost a lot of speed and fitness by Wimbledon 19. He moved like an elephant towards the end of that match.

He ain't heavy, he's my Fedr
 

NeutralFan

G.O.A.T.
Federer had lost a lot of speed and fitness by Wimbledon 19. He moved like an elephant towards the end of that match.

He ain't heavy, he's my Fedr

Not as much as Rafa and he could still play from baseline and if he was fit he could have definately be one of the favourites at slams. Fed was better player that day off ground in Wimbledon 2019 for most part of match.
 

junior74

Bionic Poster
Not as much as Rafa and he could still play from baseline and if he was fit he could have definately be one of the favourites at slams. Fed was better player that day off ground in Wimbledon 2019 for most part of match.

Agreed. But in the end, I thought it was more about Novak's low level in that match. Federer was weaker than 14/15/17 versions. Novak's ability to reach those three tiebreaks and execute them the way he did, is for me perhaps the most impressive stuff I have ever seen from him. Incredible physical and mental strength to win a match like that one.

Federer had huge trouble maintaining high level against Djokovic in slams for the last 10 years of his career. So much better in BO3. Physical decline weakens the mental strength quite ruthlessly.
 
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Robert F

Hall of Fame
Truly wish he would've not care about his record of "never retire in a match, no matter how injured you are". There are a few matches that, if he had retire from them, he would've extend his career, like the one vs Dimitrov USO19 or the one vs Sandgren AO20.
Not sure if this would have impacted his knee issues, but you are right that it would've helped with some of his intermittent back issues.
But, also who would've know he would have a career that lasted so long and so well. Think about it, you got like 10 plus slams, and you've been on tour for 6 years, history says you should be wrapping it up soon, so you play at moments when you are tired, slilghtly injured because you are thinking who knows what next year might bring.

Because of the Big 3's sucess late in their careers, tennis pros are starting to thing more long term than they did in years.
 

SpinWizard

Semi-Pro
Fed already had great and long career. Being finished at 38,5 years old is still great score. And it is not like he was playing like **** for a year before knee injury. He remained top contender almost till the end. In 2019 he just straight setted Novak in ATP Finals and just one month he was finished as a top contender.
 
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Holmes

Hall of Fame
Woulda, coulda, shoulda, is a factor in any professional athlete's trajectory, but in Roger's case, moreso than most, it should be almost if not entirely dismissed. The man set a generational standard for greatness and ended up the third best player in one of the best eras in history.
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
Federer vs Alcaraz / Federer vs Sinner in a Grand Slam Semi Final would have been a sight to behold like Connors vs Courier / Connors vs Chang.

It makes me wonder, could he have done things differently to not get his knee injured ? His hand eye co-ordination is probably still top 10 even now..



Connors' last Grand Slam match was at the 1992 US Open at the age of 40.
Federer's last Grand Slam match was at Wimbledon 2021 at the age of 39 years and 11 months.
There is practically no difference in the ages at which both players said goodbye to Majors tournaments.
The end comes to everyone, there is a point of no return and believing that careers that were already extremely long could have been extended even further is a useless attempt.
:notworthy:
 

metsman

Talk Tennis Guru
Fed had a 23 years career and roughly 230 matchws more than Djokodal currently have.

I would say busting a knee at 38.5 while still being at the very top up until then is one of the happiest scenarios he could get out of tennis with.
Yeah Federer's longevity and workload is being underrated hre. 230 matches at Djokovic's current pace is about 4-5 more years. 2019 Federer age-wise is equal to 2025 Djokovic, so Federer did just play more matches. While Federer was a mug at 18-21 compared to Djokodal, he still did play 66, 70, 80, and 95 matches before he really hit his stride. Also, Federer played (maybe wasn't the smartest decision) pretty high workloads 3 times in his 30s (2012, 2014, 2015), which Djokodal have only done once between them combined (Nadal in 2017). Only in his mid 30s, did Federer really start to load manage, whereas Djokodal have been doing so even since their late 20s.

2019 Federer is equal to 2024 Nadal, 2022 Nadal is equal to 2017 Federer, and Federer played mostly a full season in 2018 (albeit not a particularly good one, but still, he won a major), while Nadal took 23 off, so I would say barring a miraculous recovery, Federer has beaten Nadal in longevity. And will have still played a couple hundred more matches. Djokovic could certainly eclipse Federer's age based longevity, but still he would need two more years which is not a given. And it seems unlikely that he'll surpass Federer in total matches.
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah Federer's longevity and workload is being underrated hre. 230 matches at Djokovic's current pace is about 4-5 more years. 2019 Federer age-wise is equal to 2025 Djokovic, so Federer did just play more matches. While Federer was a mug at 18-21 compared to Djokodal, he still did play 66, 70, 80, and 95 matches before he really hit his stride. Also, Federer played (maybe wasn't the smartest decision) pretty high workloads 3 times in his 30s (2012, 2014, 2015), which Djokodal have only done once between them combined (Nadal in 2017). Only in his mid 30s, did Federer really start to load manage, whereas Djokodal have been doing so even since their late 20s.

2019 Federer is equal to 2024 Nadal, 2022 Nadal is equal to 2017 Federer, and Federer played mostly a full season in 2018 (albeit not a particularly good one, but still, he won a major), while Nadal took 23 off, so I would say barring a miraculous recovery, Federer has beaten Nadal in longevity. And will have still played a couple hundred more matches. Djokovic could certainly eclipse Federer's age based longevity, but still he would need two more years which is not a given. And it seems unlikely that he'll surpass Federer in total matches.
Longest span in Grand Slam titles in the Open Era:
Nadal RG 2005 - RG 2022 (17 years).
Longevity, huh?
:cool:
 
Yeah Federer's longevity and workload is being underrated hre. 230 matches at Djokovic's current pace is about 4-5 more years. 2019 Federer age-wise is equal to 2025 Djokovic, so Federer did just play more matches. While Federer was a mug at 18-21 compared to Djokodal, he still did play 66, 70, 80, and 95 matches before he really hit his stride. Also, Federer played (maybe wasn't the smartest decision) pretty high workloads 3 times in his 30s (2012, 2014, 2015), which Djokodal have only done once between them combined (Nadal in 2017). Only in his mid 30s, did Federer really start to load manage, whereas Djokodal have been doing so even since their late 20s.

2019 Federer is equal to 2024 Nadal, 2022 Nadal is equal to 2017 Federer, and Federer played mostly a full season in 2018 (albeit not a particularly good one, but still, he won a major), while Nadal took 23 off, so I would say barring a miraculous recovery, Federer has beaten Nadal in longevity. And will have still played a couple hundred more matches. Djokovic could certainly eclipse Federer's age based longevity, but still he would need two more years which is not a given. And it seems unlikely that he'll surpass Federer in total matches.
Fed played ~60-65 matches per season in 2017-2019, around the same matches as 2021 and 2023 Djoko.

That's quite a bit. He surely never really "scheduled" aside from skipping clay twice.

In 2019 he entered like 15 tournaments, the last time Novak did that was 2018-2019.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Agreed. But in the end, I thought it was more about Novak's low level in that match. Federer was weaker than 14/15/17 versions. Novak's ability to reach those three tiebreaks and execute them the way he did, is for me perhaps the most impressive stuff I have ever seen from him. Incredible strength physical and mental strength to win a match like that.

Federer had huge trouble maintaining high level against Djokovic in slams for the last 10 years of his career. So much better in BO3. Physical decline weakens the mental strength quite ruthlessly.
I blame that loss more on Fed since Djokovic is not a better tiebreak player than him. Sure, he didn't commit a single UE in those tiebreaks, but that just means he waited for Fed to make mistakes which is not exactly a courageous play from the "mental GOAT".

Besides, he only committed 3 UE in the 2nd tiebreak of their 2015 Wimb F in a 22 point tiebreak and only 1 UE in their 2nd tiebreak in the 2007 USO F. How come he didn't win those?
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Expect the Dj0kob0ts to argue that a a player who avoided major injuries until 35 and a career threatening injury until 38.5 didn't take care of his body.
 

junior74

Bionic Poster
I blame that loss more on Fed since Djokovic is not a better tiebreak player than him. Sure, he didn't commit a single UE in those tiebreaks, but that just means he waited for Fed to make mistakes which is not exactly a courageous play from the "mental GOAT".

Besides, he only committed 3 UE in the 2nd tiebreak of their 2015 Wimb F in a 22 point tiebreak and only 1 UE in their 2nd tiebreak in the 2007 USO F. How come he didn't win those?

My point is Novak knew tiebreak was his chance. He knew Federer was better and has said he got a little lucky that day. Most players would lie down, but Novak didn't. A top Federer would not have lost three tiebreaks like that. But an old and sloppy one did. The deciding tiebreak was lost before it started.

A top Djokovic, like 2015, would have beaten Fed19 in straights, probably.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
My point is Novak knew tiebreak was his chance. He knew Federer was better and has said he got a little lucky that day. Most players would lie down, but Novak didn't. A top Federer would not have lost three tiebreaks like that. But an old and sloppy one did. The deciding tiebreak was lost before it started.

A top Djokovic, like 2015, would have beaten Fed19 in straights, probably.
Agree wholeheartedly with everything.
 

Fedforever

Hall of Fame
I always thought it was odd he played those exhibition matches in South America before the 2020 Australian Open - seemed like he'd be better off resting?

But retrospect is always easy. And looking at his life now, I can't think of anything he'd be doing differently if he still held the record or anything like that. His team recognised in 2015 that the record was likely to go (at that time you'd have assumed it would go quicker) and focussed on building his brand pretty much entirely on just....being Federer and that's just continued after retirement.
 

pirhaksar

Professional
Yeah Federer's longevity and workload is being underrated hre. 230 matches at Djokovic's current pace is about 4-5 more years. 2019 Federer age-wise is equal to 2025 Djokovic, so Federer did just play more matches. While Federer was a mug at 18-21 compared to Djokodal, he still did play 66, 70, 80, and 95 matches before he really hit his stride. Also, Federer played (maybe wasn't the smartest decision) pretty high workloads 3 times in his 30s (2012, 2014, 2015), which Djokodal have only done once between them combined (Nadal in 2017). Only in his mid 30s, did Federer really start to load manage, whereas Djokodal have been doing so even since their late 20s.

2019 Federer is equal to 2024 Nadal, 2022 Nadal is equal to 2017 Federer, and Federer played mostly a full season in 2018 (albeit not a particularly good one, but still, he won a major), while Nadal took 23 off, so I would say barring a miraculous recovery, Federer has beaten Nadal in longevity. And will have still played a couple hundred more matches. Djokovic could certainly eclipse Federer's age based longevity, but still he would need two more years which is not a given. And it seems unlikely that he'll surpass Federer in total matches.
Agree, let’s actually see if Djokovic can play at 38/39 and reach W final!! He is 37 now it’s not like he has higher longevity than Fed at this point. In 2017 Fed looked invincible and 1.5 yrs later his career ended. Djokovic fans should be happy he is still fit and competing hard but best to keep predictions tempered. At this age one wrong twist or turn is all is needed. I do hope for his sake he plays and leaves on his terms even he is tired of winning or turning up, that much he deserves and I will root for him all the way to the end!
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Agree, let’s actually see if Djokovic can play at 38/39 and reach W final!! He is 37 now it’s not like he has higher longevity than Fed at this point. In 2017 Fed looked invincible and 1.5 yrs later his career ended. Djokovic fans should be happy he is still fit and competing hard but best to keep predictions tempered. At this age one wrong twist or turn is all is needed. I do hope for his sake he plays and leaves on his terms even he is tired of winning or turning up, that much he deserves and I will root for him all the way to the end!
Let's NOT keep the predictions tempered.

Federer was battered by Djokovic before 2017. Djokovic is gone and fed won 3 out of 4 slams he played. No coincidence.

But what was fed doing in 2016 or 2015.

Fact is without covid Djokovic would have won 8/9 slams in last 3 years. He is flying near the sun. Let's not compare what fed did in 2017 in Nole's absence vs what Nole did just now.

Nole is fit, he is ready and he is going to be on top or near the top for a long time.
 

pirhaksar

Professional
Let's NOT keep the predictions tempered.

Federer was battered by Djokovic before 2017. Djokovic is gone and fed won 3 out of 4 slams he played. No coincidence.

But what was fed doing in 2016 or 2015.

Fact is without covid Djokovic would have won 8/9 slams in last 3 years. He is flying near the sun. Let's not compare what fed did in 2017 in Nole's absence vs what Nole did just now.

Nole is fit, he is ready and he is going to be on top or near the top for a long time.
lol dude I said this before, good to be confident about your fave player but flying near the sun..come on man lol
 
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