Could Hawaiian FH be the easiest, with the least timing problems?

[torpantennis]

Currently, I'm using a SW grip, and really enjoy it when I'm successfully driving through the ball with it. I also like the fact that it can handle both low and high balls relatively well. However, I have a problem (most probably in my technique) that sometimes the racquet face opens up slightly, and the balls sail to the back fence.

I feel that at least my own SW FH is very sensitive to small timing errors, and I'd like to get rid of that. With the SW FH, the hitting face of the racquet points to the ground in the backswing, and then opens up to about perpendicular to the ground at the ball contact. This gradual opening of the racquet face is the problem, as it's exactly the reason why the swing is so sensitive to the timing errors.

I'd like to have a FH with less change of the racquet face angle during the swing, so that racquet would be at close to optimal angle throughout the swing. This kind of a swing would be less sensitive to small timing errors. As I understand the Hawaiian FH, you DON'T use pronation on it, i.e one less moving parts which could make timing errors. Is this lack of pronation true, or am I understanding it wrong? Wouldn't a Hawaiian FH have the racquet at a correct angle almost throughout the swing?

Then I'd also like Hawaiian grip, since I already tend to slice most very low balls. The Hawaiian grip is actually equal to conti grip, so my hand would already have the slice grip ready. What do you think, should I consider a switch to Hawaiian, or is there anything I could do to avoid the opening up of the racquet face during the SW FH swing?

 

[LakeSnake]

Er... seems to me eastern forehand hitting flat has the least complicated timing. It faces the ball the longest and comes in at the least angle. Just have to hit low and trust gravity. By the way, do you keep your wrist at a fixed angle, or do you like to wipe/whip it for more pace?

 

[Cobra Tennis]

The LAST grip I would ever teach a student is the Hawaiian. Just looking at it makes my wrist hurt.

 

[TennisCJC]

To each their own, but Hawaiin grip sounds like a nightmare to me. I don't think it is good for low balls and If I understand your statement that it is equivalent of a conti grip that is good for slices, this implies that you are thinking the you would hit higher FHs with topspin H grip and then use it as a conti by FLIPPING THE RACKET FACE OVER to use the opposite side for slicing low balls. I don't like the concept of playing with different sides of the racket on the FH side based on topspin or slice personally. I also think H FH grip closes the hitting window to a small amount of time where the strings are facing the target. I advocate for a FH grip between E to SW and I actually play with a hybrid between E and SW. My advice is to keep the SW grip and work on stringbed angle, contact point and swing path to eliminate flyers that hit the back fence instead of trying to solve the flyer problem by going to what I consider a very extreme grip that has strong limitations. Just my opinion and I am sure their are successful players using this grip but I would not go there personally.

 

[torpantennis]

Check this clip: https://youtu.be/b9lIIiJ16sA

Like you see, she does NOT pronate the forearm during the swing of her Hawaiian FH. In comparison, a SW FH pronates the forearm, and timing of the pronation is what I think causes my problems. I'd like to get rid of that pronation, and the timing challenges of it.

 

[tennis_balla]

^ Couple of slice backhands and you're screwed with a grip like that.

 

[torpantennis]

^ Couple of slice backhands and you're screwed with a grip like that.

Enough knee bend, and you can go low enough for topspin.

And that grip is actually equal to conti grip, so you can slice the very low balls (with the opposite side of the stringbed).

 

[torpantennis]

Timea Bacsinszky actually uses Hawaiian. She mixes up topspin and slice very well with it, and was just on a 15 match winning streak.

https://youtu.be/fwPnw1gxDc8

 

[WildVolley]

Do any top 100 men use the Hawaiian grip?

I've never understood that grip. When I try it, it puts the palm of my hand in front of the racket handle on the same side of the strings such that I don't have a strong grip at contact. So it is sort of like hitting a forehand with a grip position that is weaker or equivalent to a 1hbh.

 

[torpantennis]

Do any top 100 men use the Hawaiian grip?

I've never understood that grip. When I try it, it puts the palm of my hand in front of the racket handle on the same side of the strings such that I don't have a strong grip at contact. So it is sort of like hitting a forehand with a grip position that is weaker or equivalent to a 1hbh.

Where do we need a "strong grip"?? I already use ridiculously loose grip, almost like throwing the racquet to the ball. It's all about momentum and kinetic energy of the racquet, and the collision of the ball and the racquet. Your grip doesn't provide any energy into the ball.

 

[Topspin Shot]

It's a very unusual grip for a reason. My guess if you try it is you'll end up switching back to something more conventional sooner or later. Maybe try a three quarter western grip but more importantly, groove a swing path that doesn't involve opening or closing the racket face in the contact window.

 

[Migelowsky]

It seems that you already made your mind.
I think that the negatives are more than the positives
on this grip, but go ahead and try it.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

I used to have a hawaiian grip. I developed it as a kid (no one ever taught me how to hold the racquet), trying to learn topspin. I was/still short, and I would typically play folks that would lob the ball high. so that's how the extreme hawaiian grip developed.

Fast forward to an adult when I picked up the game again, it was fine through 4.0 since alot of folks couldn't handle the high looping topspin especially hit to their backhand(s), but when I got bumped to 4.5, it was much harder for me to handle the flatter/harder shots being hit at me, especially on hard courts where I play most of the time. on clay courts i was fine, i had more time to set up my fh, and i could keep the ball high making it harder for folks to either slice, or hit their flattish shots.

After a while I also realized I hated that I found it very difficult to drive the ball... so any short balls i was able to hit from nml, were typically loopy topspin, usually defendable, and we'd have to start the point again (vs. being a forcing shot or winner). I also found it difficult to be consistent hitting deep (since the swing angle was typically so extreme). folks also often attacked my fh with a slice, and came to net, knowing it would difficult to pickup a low shot with a hawaiian grip, that usually ended up with me lobbing with a continental grip). Because of these reasons, I eventually decided to make the switch to SW, which took about a year to do.

Fast forward a few years, I'm definitely glad I made the switch. While I don't have quite the topspin I used to have, I gained alot more versatility. with hawaiian, i was mostly a grinder (playing 10ft behind the baseline because I needed the time to prep with the Hawaiian), but with SW, I can be closer to the baseline, and play more allcourt. I can drive flattish (ending points faster when given the opportunity), and I can still hit loopy topspin if needed... I am much more consistent hitting deep. and ultimately it's made me much much more competitive at the 4.5 level than I was with a Hawaiian grip.... I'm glad I made the switch to SW.

Regarding getting the angle of the racquet right.. i think that just takes practice (I spent a year playing exclusively with 3.5/4.0 partners, ball machine and the wall)... i know it was hard for me making the transition, but with lots of practice you'll get it consistent.

 

[geca]

"very sensitive to small timing errors" ?

There must be a problem in the swing, not the grip.

 

[tlm]

Hawaiian grip does make it easier to swing out and not hit the ball long. You have to swing harder to get depth but you can swing away and as long as you get the ball over the net it will be in at a very high % of the time.

 

[eaglesburg]

Currently, I'm using a SW grip, and really enjoy it when I'm successfully driving through the ball with it. I also like the fact that it can handle both low and high balls relatively well. However, I have a problem (most probably in my technique) that sometimes the racquet face opens up slightly, and the balls sail to the back fence.

I feel that at least my own SW FH is very sensitive to small timing errors, and I'd like to get rid of that. With the SW FH, the hitting face of the racquet points to the ground in the backswing, and then opens up to about perpendicular to the ground at the ball contact. This gradual opening of the racquet face is the problem, as it's exactly the reason why the swing is so sensitive to the timing errors.

I'd like to have a FH with less change of the racquet face angle during the swing, so that racquet would be at close to optimal angle throughout the swing. This kind of a swing would be less sensitive to small timing errors. As I understand the Hawaiian FH, you DON'T use pronation on it, i.e one less moving parts which could make timing errors. Is this lack of pronation true, or am I understanding it wrong? Wouldn't a Hawaiian FH have the racquet at a correct angle almost throughout the swing?

Then I'd also like Hawaiian grip, since I already tend to slice most very low balls. The Hawaiian grip is actually equal to conti grip, so my hand would already have the slice grip ready. What do you think, should I consider a switch to Hawaiian, or is there anything I could do to avoid the opening up of the racquet face during the SW FH swing?

Sounds like a technical problem. Use the SW. I don't think that switching to Hawaiian will fix your problems.

 

[thomasferrett]

OP, H forehand grip does require pronation through contact point, not sure why you think otherwise.

You see how the girl in that clip has her racket strings facing the court as the racket swings across her body? That's a windshield wiper stroke - those necessitate forearm pronation - it is impossible to hit a WW stroke without forearm pronation.

The timing window is MUCH smaller on H forehand than SW forehand, as the strings will be pointing towards the floor up until the last second. You used to hit long a lot of the time with SW forehand? Be prepared to dump a lot of balls into the net with the H forehand. Hitting a bit long is a better error to make than hitting the net anyway, as it usually requires only a little calibration to make the next stroke a good, deep shot.

Not only will you struggle with low balls, but you will struggle getting depth on normal height and high balls.

I used to be like you and thought that extreme grips were going to be stronger generally and offer more access to spin, but that's not even the case.

Nadal hits the most topspin ever with a SW forehand, not an H forehand. That's because he is allowed to hit with more freedom and racket head speed with this more natural stroke than he would be able to with his wrist all contorted and his hitting arm jammed close to his body (robbing him of leverage).

I would not recommend you take the H forehand route, and instead sort out your SW grip technique. That grip can do it all and do it all extremely well.

 

[TennisPinkBabe]

Change the swing path instead so the SW gripped racquet is closed throughout.

 

[sundaypunch]

Currently, I'm using a SW grip, and really enjoy it when I'm successfully driving through the ball with it. I also like the fact that it can handle both low and high balls relatively well. However, I have a problem (most probably in my technique) that sometimes the racquet face opens up slightly, and the balls sail to the back fence.

I feel that at least my own SW FH is very sensitive to small timing errors, and I'd like to get rid of that. With the SW FH, the hitting face of the racquet points to the ground in the backswing, and then opens up to about perpendicular to the ground at the ball contact. This gradual opening of the racquet face is the problem, as it's exactly the reason why the swing is so sensitive to the timing errors.

I'd like to have a FH with less change of the racquet face angle during the swing, so that racquet would be at close to optimal angle throughout the swing. This kind of a swing would be less sensitive to small timing errors……..

I agree with other posters - you have a technical problem that is not related to your grip.

From other posts of yours I recall you saying that you play at a 3.0 / 3.5 level and are relatively new to taking tennis seriously. The problems you are describing are a function of being at this level. You are probably improving quickly but just need more time & rep's to feel like you have a reliable forehand.

If you are looking to keep the racquet face vertical during the swing, that is basically a classic, old school forehand. Eastern or conti. grip, keep the racquet face vertical at all times, and swing with a slight upward path to get some topspin. Nothing wrong with that but I don't think that is what you are looking for.

A modern FH will have the racquet briefly drop down into the "pat the dog" position with the face being nearly parallel to the ground. As you whip the racquet forward the racquet face usually remains slightly closed through hitting the ball. It really should not feel like the racquet face is gradually opening.

You can have an outstanding FH with a SW grip. There is nothing that makes it sensitive to timing errors. Over a 30 year period I have moved from eastern all the way to full western, and gradually back to extreme eastern. When you have played long enough to have a sound FH, you should be able to get used to a new grip in a matter of a few months.

Here is a link to a Rick Macci FH video.

You need to embrace having the racquet face pointing down as you start your swing foreword unless your goal is to hit an old school, closed stance FH. If you are looking for the classic FH, you certainly don't want a hawaiian grip.

 

[LeeD]

Used to be a guy, FAILED, who used Hawaiian grip, was a 5.0, a real hard hitting 5.0, went to a D-1 school, and his coach made him dump his grip in favor of a SW grip.
He complained the grip was tough against low skidding slices, and in tough even match's, putting the ball away was very tough when energy wasn't abundant.
In WTA, it might work, because everyone hit's baseline shots only, and very few bother to slice, although Serena faced one early in the last tourney.
I think the men can slice much lower, much more skidded balls than the WTA forehand slices.

 

[Shroud]

Why not a western?

Seems like a good option instead of the Hawaiian.

 

[torpantennis]

Yeah, I think I'll stick to the SW. I do like to be able to flatten out balls, so that I can then hurry the opponent with a lower trajectory. I'm not too afraid of the Hawaiian FH's ability to handle low balls (slice them), but I am afraid that it'll make me a moonballer. That's not what I like to do.

So I should find a way to get rid of the opening of racquet face problem. Basically, it tends to happen when I've slightly misjudged the flightpath of the ball, and I'm forced to lift the racquet higher than I was prepared. It's that extra lifting of the arm that opens up the racquet face.

The obvious solution is to hit more balls, and get rid or those occasional misjudgings. Any ideas for how to lift the racquet higher at the least instant, without the racquet face opening up even slightly?

 

[JCPlus]

Yeah, I think I'll stick to the SW. I do like to be able to flatten out balls, so that I can then hurry the opponent with a lower trajectory. I'm not too afraid of the Hawaiian FH's ability to handle low balls (slice them), but I am afraid that it'll make me a moonballer. That's not what I like to do.

So I should find a way to get rid of the opening of racquet face problem. Basically, it tends to happen when I've slightly misjudged the flightpath of the ball, and I'm forced to lift the racquet higher than I was prepared. It's that extra lifting of the arm that opens up the racquet face.

The obvious solution is to hit more balls, and get rid or those occasional misjudgings. Any ideas for how to lift the racquet higher at the least instant, without the racquet face opening up even slightly?

Do you feel that your contact point is far enough front? This generally stops the lifting that happens when the contact is late. It also makes timing more forgiving, since the racquet is moving through the ball more.

 

[torpantennis]

Do you feel that your contact point is far enough front? This generally stops the lifting that happens when the contact is late. It also makes timing more forgiving, since the racquet is moving through the ball more.

That could well be one of the reasons! I've had contact point too far back problem in the past, but then I got rid of it and haven't paid any attention to it in a while. Old bad habits can easily lure back though, so this is something I will definitely keep an eye on.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

So I should find a way to get rid of the opening of racquet face problem. Basically, it tends to happen when I've slightly misjudged the flightpath of the ball, and I'm forced to lift the racquet higher than I was prepared. It's that extra lifting of the arm that opens up the racquet face.

The obvious solution is to hit more balls, and get rid or those occasional misjudgings. Any ideas for how to lift the racquet higher at the least instant, without the racquet face opening up even slightly?

I have this problem from time to time, more on my 2hbh than my fh... I really like Oscar Wegnar's ideas on stalking the ball (eg. the hand tracks (matches) the height of the incoming ball from the time in crosses the net), to optimize the chance of being at the right starting height when you initiate your forward motion... (I used to just set my racquet prep, well before, but I found making the last minute changes harder, especially when hitting on the rise and/or half volleying a ball). Oscar's description got me into the mindset of being more dynamic in my preparation.

The other cue I think about to keep the racquet closed, is the feel of "locking my wrist forward".. .really I'm just tilting the top of the racquet slight closed, but for me there is a specific "locked" feel of my wrist, which I try to replicate every time I hit. Under pressure, it sometimes breaks down (causing me to hit very long), but still a work in progress.

 

[10isMaestro]

I played a few years using an eastern forehand grip, before turning to a semi-western grip. Since then, I moved a few times back and forth before semi-western and full western. My personal experience of these changes did follow the conventional wisdom: as you move towards more extreme of a grip, top spin becomes easier to acquire, but it also becomes increasingly hard to plow through the ball with pace. Playing a full western for a while, I had an easy time getting balls to kick and move. However, when it came down to finishing points, it was really hard. If you go yet further with your grip, I can tell upfront that you're screwing yourself over.

 

[10isMaestro]

So I should find a way to get rid of the opening of racquet face problem. Basically, it tends to happen when I've slightly misjudged the flightpath of the ball, and I'm forced to lift the racquet higher than I was prepared. It's that extra lifting of the arm that opens up the racquet face.

A neat trick to ensure this simply doesn't happen: make sure that, at the moment you pull your racket forward, it's facing the ground. It shouldn't face the side fence and, given your semi-western grip, it should pretty close to be parallel to the ground.

More specifically, do this:

The second picture isn't ideal because it's slightly too early in the swing. However, you do get the point with it and I needed an example with a high ball. By the way, I wouldn't advise swinging such a high ball, off the air and starting your swing that low -- unless you get extremely comfortable with your forehand.

Of course, as the ball gets higher, the tip actually needs more subtlety -- what I advise here is to make sure your forearm is pronated and not supinated before swinging forward. Of course, it doesn't mean you have to make a pause -- actually, don't -- but it means that, if you do as some players do and set up with a racket whose face is too open, you'll end up having trouble making clean contacts all the time.

 

[torpantennis]

I played a few years using an eastern forehand grip, before turning to a semi-western grip. Since then, I moved a few times back and forth before semi-western and full western. My personal experience of these changes did follow the conventional wisdom: as you move towards more extreme of a grip, top spin becomes easier to acquire, but it also becomes increasingly hard to plow through the ball with pace. Playing a full western for a while, I had an easy time getting balls to kick and move. However, when it came down to finishing points, it was really hard. If you go yet further with your grip, I can tell upfront that you're screwing yourself over.

But Hawaiian seems to not be just a "more extreme western". See that video I linked earlier of a female player hitting Hawaiian. She did not rotate (pronate) the wrist or the forearm at all before the ball contact. With the western, you do rotate the wrist, and you have to do a lot of it. In this sense, western is the most extreme grip, and Hawaiian is just a totally different, strange FH technique.

 

[torpantennis]

...Of course, as the ball gets higher, the tip actually needs more subtlety -- what I advise here is to make sure your forearm is pronated and not supinated before swinging forward. Of course, it doesn't mean you have to make a pause -- actually, don't -- but it means that, if you do as some players do and set up with a racket whose face is too open, you'll end up having trouble making clean contacts all the time.

Yeah, my racquet face is more or less parallel to the ground, at least that's what I plan on doing. Maybe it opens up when the ball flies, who knows. A video should reveal that...

Isn't the forearm supposed to do pronation->supination->pronation cycle, from the take back position, through forward swing initiation, up to ball contact? At least that's how I do it, i.e start with the pronated arm, and then let it supinate by the forward pull.

 

[dimkin]

I used to have a hawaiian grip. I developed it as a kid (no one ever taught me how to hold the racquet), trying to learn topspin. I was/still short, and I would typically play folks that would lob the ball high. so that's how the extreme hawaiian grip developed.

Fast forward to an adult when I picked up the game again, it was fine through 4.0 since alot of folks couldn't handle the high looping topspin especially hit to their backhand(s), but when I got bumped to 4.5, it was much harder for me to handle the flatter/harder shots being hit at me, especially on hard courts where I play most of the time. on clay courts i was fine, i had more time to set up my fh, and i could keep the ball high making it harder for folks to either slice, or hit their flattish shots.

After a while I also realized I hated that I found it very difficult to drive the ball... so any short balls i was able to hit from nml, were typically loopy topspin, usually defendable, and we'd have to start the point again (vs. being a forcing shot or winner). I also found it difficult to be consistent hitting deep (since the swing angle was typically so extreme). folks also often attacked my fh with a slice, and came to net, knowing it would difficult to pickup a low shot with a hawaiian grip, that usually ended up with me lobbing with a continental grip). Because of these reasons, I eventually decided to make the switch to SW, which took about a year to do.

Fast forward a few years, I'm definitely glad I made the switch. While I don't have quite the topspin I used to have, I gained alot more versatility. with hawaiian, i was mostly a grinder (playing 10ft behind the baseline because I needed the time to prep with the Hawaiian), but with SW, I can be closer to the baseline, and play more allcourt. I can drive flattish (ending points faster when given the opportunity), and I can still hit loopy topspin if needed... I am much more consistent hitting deep. and ultimately it's made me much much more competitive at the 4.5 level than I was with a Hawaiian grip.... I'm glad I made the switch to SW.

Regarding getting the angle of the racquet right.. i think that just takes practice (I spent a year playing exclusively with 3.5/4.0 partners, ball machine and the wall)... i know it was hard for me making the transition, but with lots of practice you'll get it consistent.

Wow ... my story exactly ... played with FW/Hawaiian for 15+yrs, 4.0s couldn't handle it (and I couldn't handle the slicers (to the point of running around my FHs on low balls to hit a backhand, which is fairly normal), stepped up to 4.5-5.0 and those guys could handle the extreme top-spin with ease, now I am relearning with SW ... it's a process, but an exciting one at that . . .

 

[Deleted member 23235]

Wow ... my story exactly ... played with FW/Hawaiian for 15+yrs, 4.0s couldn't handle it (and I couldn't handle the slicers (to the point of running around my FHs on low balls to hit a backhand, which is fairly normal), stepped up to 4.5-5.0 and those guys could handle the extreme top-spin with ease, now I am relearning with SW ... it's a process, but an exciting one at that . . .

cool, that i'm not the only one I found the hardest part of the switch was reverting back to my old grip... I even resorted to modifying my grip to feel different (eg. using "the wedge" - company is no longer in business), but well worth the year long effort (to get back to my previous level of consistency). Good luck on your journey.

 

[sundaypunch]

When you learn to hit a serve, every coach will start you with a continental grip. Without instruction, students almost always start with an eastern FH / "frying pan" grip for the serve. It gives you quick results because the racquet face stays square and you can easily get the ball in the service box.

The coach then tells the student that this grip might make things easier at first, but it will severely limit your long term potential. You are better off going with the more awkward grip that will eventually make your serve much better and allow you to hit a wide variety of spins.

This is essentially what happens when someone starts with a Hawaiian FH grip. It may be easier to hit a loopy shot and keep the ball in play. Unless you plan to play a retrieving style exclusively on clay, you are going to find it to be very limiting.

A SW grip will allow you to hit massive spin with the proper technique. It also is fairly easy to flatten out the ball and pressure your opponent. The vast majority of people playing a modern FH use this grip or extreme eastern for a reason. They tend to be the best compromise allowing both flat and spin shots.

To me tennis is much like playing the piano. You can understand theory and have excellent technique. Still, you need to put in hours upon hours of practice before you become proficient. You just need more rep's and the flyers will become less and less frequent.

 

[dimkin]

cool, that i'm not the only one I found the hardest part of the switch was reverting back to my old grip... I even resorted to modifying my grip to feel different (eg. using "the wedge" - company is no longer in business), but well worth the year long effort (to get back to my previous level of consistency). Good luck on your journey.

thanks it's not easy ... racquet droops, too much wrist, not leading with albow ... too much flick ... too much top spin ... not enough plough-through ... barely beating 4.0s ... at least serve remained . . .

 

[Shroud]

I think I tried that last night. It was more extreme than my western. Actually I was using the BH grip Cheetah recommended and since I dont switch grips I was more extreme than my western.

I could hit it fine and was getting more spin, but yeah it was just loopy and spinny and while it jumped off the court it didnt really move through the court like the normal ball.

 

[thomasferrett]

I think I tried that last night. It was more extreme than my western. Actually I was using the BH grip Cheetah recommended and since I dont switch grips I was more extreme than my western.

I could hit it fine and was getting more spin, but yeah it was just loopy and spinny and while it jumped off the court it didnt really move through the court like the normal ball.

So you must have been using a continental backhand grip?

Hawaiian forehand grip turned over is continental backhand, western forehand grip turned over is full eastern backhand and semi western forehand grip turned over is semi western backhand grip... The latter is the grip combo I use (like you, I don't need to change grips between forehand and backhand). What is the combo you normally use?

 

[Shroud]

So you must have been using a continental backhand grip?

Hawaiian forehand grip turned over is continental backhand, western forehand grip turned over is full eastern backhand and semi western forehand grip turned over is semi western backhand grip... The latter is the grip combo I use (like you, I don't need to change grips between forehand and backhand). What is the combo you normally use?

I was using SW on both, but moved to w on the fh, which I call Extreme eastern for the BH.

This is the BH grip I was using which I thought created a Hawaiian:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IurGIKVFKQ

Its more extreme than my western. Also its more of a hammer grip. I am used to more of a pistol grip, so it was strange. The fact that I could even hit good FHs with it was surprising.

Sorry Cheetah but that grip and its hammer nature is hard to find...

 

[THE FIGHTER]

in high school i used a semi-western which made it's way to a full-wesern and ,finally, to a hawaiian grip.

you can still pronate with this grip, but it doesnt do as much as pronating with a SW or E grip. less moving parts true.

my coach told me to switch to a strong eastern my junior year probably because, like most people, he didnt like the way my hawaiian forehand looked. i cheated my way back to a SW, but never the full western or hawaiian.

eventually i found that with the hawaiian i had to work harder to get in the right position to hit the shots, especially shots not in the below the strike zone, short, or at the feet. compared to the SW, i was able to not get caught off gaurd or out of position as nearly as much. and the extra moving part (wrist pronation and flexion on FHs) was the reason for this.

eventually i grooved the best with a strong eastern, mainly because i can flatten or hit with spin comfortably, but also because it's easier to adapt to less than desirable situations. not sure if you will relate, but hope it helps.

 

[GuyClinch]

Where do you normally finish now?

I had a similar problem but switched to a more across the body swing path - and that's helped more then anything.

Basically you switch from a more underhand throw to a more sidearm throw - if you think about the swing path. It really does work.

 

[Bender]

Switching to a Hawaiian grip because you have timing issues is like doing chemo because you want to shorten your hair.

 

[Captain Ron]

Switching to a Hawaiian grip because you have timing issues is like doing chemo because you want to shorten your hair.

Good one
I think switching to Hawaiian may be less effective

 

[thomasferrett]

Switching to a Hawaiian grip because you have timing issues is like doing chemo because you want to shorten your hair.

Haha, but more like doing chemo when you want to grow your hair out, because Hawaiian grip has never been recommended for people with timing issues as it possibly requires the best timing merely to actually make clean contact with.

 

[torpantennis]

Haha, but more like doing chemo when you want to grow your hair out, because Hawaiian grip has never been recommended for people with timing issues as it possibly requires the best timing merely to actually make clean contact with.

Now remember that there are two kinds of timings: Timing of the ball, AND timing of the parts of the kinetic chain. My timing troubles with SW are more related to the kinetic chain, and the use of pronation in relation to other parts of the body. I have no troubles to time the ball. Hitting on the rise and topspin half volleying at the baseline has always been very natural for me.

Mechanics of the Hawaiian FH seem very easy and straightforward, so timings of the kinetic chain should be easier.

 

[sureshs]

Check this clip: https://youtu.be/b9lIIiJ16sA

Like you see, she does NOT pronate the forearm during the swing of her Hawaiian FH. In comparison, a SW FH pronates the forearm, and timing of the pronation is what I think causes my problems. I'd like to get rid of that pronation, and the timing challenges of it.

I think the comment by "sagatbalrog" under the video captures the essence of the tennis instruction in the video

 

[torpantennis]

So I did shadow swing a couple of WESTERN FHs. It seems that full western is actually very simple for swing mechanics. You just draw the racquet forward from the take back, the hand remains BELOW the racquet handle (with the palm facing towards sky) basically all up to the ball contact, and then the forearm just naturally pronates before the finish. Feels very simple, no timing troubles for the wrist pronation etc.

ALSO, western FH feels very easy to hit flat swinging volleys with. You can put the racquet into the lagging position (butt pointing forwards) before swinging, and then just draw the racquet forward with the hand below the racquet at all times. The racquet seems to be approximately perpendicular to the ground at all times if you do it like that. Very simple mechanics, maybe that way I could also get rid of my struggles with killing short floaters.

BTW, recent video revealed that I do indeed have strange technique and inconsistencies, the racquet is not always fully lagging like it should. Western feels simpler, the swing from racquet lag to the ball contact is just a simple drawing motion. I'll try switch to that now, and if it doesn't feel good, then I'll reconsider SW again.

 

[Enga]

I saw a guy with a hawaiian grip, he had a very powerful shot against sitters, swinging all out. He wouldnt change grip on backhands, which would cause him to drive through well on that wing, or slice. He had an array of dropshots and lobs. Very smart, tough player who was way out of shape by the time I played him.

Paired with his brother, who had great court sense and also a wide array of shots, and they sent players scrambling all over the court.

People who choose the hawaiian grip should choose it for variety, and the luxury of not having to move grips much, rather than spin.

 

[ReopeningWed]

What level do you play at?

 

[torpantennis]

What level do you play at?

About 3.0-3.5, self rated.

Whatever the grip, the recent videos have proved that I have to really focus on butt pointing to the ball. Otherwise, I'll soon have a tlm FH.

 

[ReopeningWed]

Timing for any shot will come with practice, I think you'd do well to stick with your SW forehand. We're looking for results 1-2 years down the road, not instantly.

 

[Broly4]

I wouldn't change your SW grip. That being said, if you happen to have the Hawaiian grip naturally, I would stick with it.

There are pros and cons, since it's an extreme grip those are more accentuated

Some features I've found:
-Top spin friendly (you can hit top spin with any Fh grip, but with this one is the natural shot/swing path.
-It allows you to swing out more freely, it is less effective energy wise, kind of similar when a low powered racquet requires a faster swing to produce the same pace.
-I think it's not very practical to use the other face of the racquet to hit a Fh slice, without changing your grip, it's doable though.

 

[torpantennis]

Timing for any shot will come with practice, I think you'd do well to stick with your SW forehand. We're looking for results 1-2 years down the road, not instantly.

The biggest struggle at low levels is to learn how to handle the weak floaters you see a lot in matches. Timing of the swing on them is so different to timing when the ball has some velocity on it. That's why I'd like to have a very simple forward swing, without any pronations etc. between the racquet lag and the ball contact. That'd make it easier to kill those weak floaters, by simply drawing the racquet forward and swinging through the ball. It feels like western could do just that, with the racquet perpendicular to the ground within a very big window. Just check this Nole's FH, looks very simple and the racquet is prependicular to the ground through the whole swing AND the hand remains below the handle all up to ball contact. That's what I'd like to copy.

http://youtu.be/FxAznGbRBTY?t=2m36s