Courier says Djokovic should have won....

[MichaelNadal]

From Tennis.com:

Two time Roland Garros champion and U.S. Davis Cup captain Jim Courier says that if not for a rain delay he believes Novak Djokovic would have beaten Rafael Nadal for the French Open title last June. Play was suspended with Nadal trying to protect a 6-4, 6-3, 2-6, 1-2 lead on Sunday, but Nadal came back on Monday and completed a 6-4, 6-3, 2-6, 7-5 win contested over two days.

“I think [Djokovic] would have [won Roland Garros] last year but for a rain delay,” Courier said. “Certainly [he] can [this year].”



I like Jim, but this is a very biased statement. Nadal was slaughtering Djokovic until the court was really too wet for the tennis to continue. Obviously Nadal thought he was about 20 minutes from the title and wanted to wrap it up, which anyone else would have done in that situation, but there came a point where play should have been suspended well before it was. Does he not realize Novak would have lost in straights if it wasn't for it raining in the first place? Discuss.

 

[Anaconda]

Djokovic would have beaten Nadal at FO 2011 had he not lost to Federer. He was beating Nadal on every surface that year but not sure about 2012, Nadal was leading and was actually not down in the dumps about playing Djokovic; He had scored some wins I believe against Djokovic including a beatdown if I recall correctly.

 

[Bartelby]

He might have but now he might never.

 

[The Bawss]

I agree, Djokovic should definitely have won the 2012 USO final. I am glad this opinion, nay, FACT is being voiced by an esteemed former tennis professional and ATP #1.

 

[Anaconda]

He might have but now he might never.

Don't be surprised if Djokovic wins the FO this year beating Nadal in the process. I think he's proved over the last few years to be a worthy contender for Nadal on clay. Now, before some idiot like NadalAgassi or Cesc jump straight in, I am not suggesting he would be favourite to win. I am just stating he would have a shot at beating Nadal.

 

[big ted]

towards the end before the rain delay, djokovic was on fire i think alot of people would agree with courier.

alot of people dont think courier would have beaten agassi in the 91 french if there hadnt been a rain delay.

i think there was a match with lendl and becker at wimbledon too with a rain delay that helped becker win

 

[Tennis_Monk]

Courier is entitled to have his opinion and he has better credentials than many others.

That said , It isnt uncommon in a tennis match , especially when two of the best are playing to have Ebbs and flows. There would be periods of time when the other player dominates. In the end, the winner would be the one who dominated/won most points. Djokovic being on Fire/Cloud9/Landmine for a portion of a match doesnt make the result automatic.

Nadal won fair and square given the conditions. once we start applying "IF" and "BUTS" , there is no end.

 

[monfed]

Maybe. But 2011? Now that's a different story. :lol:

 

[Goosehead]

courier is a muppet..djokovic won the 3rd set because the wet courts and damp balls caused by all that depressing drizzle much reduced the high bounce and spin nadal generates..

was courier drunk when he made these comments, or is he just a nadal hater.

having said that djokvic has an excellent chance to win this year even if nadal wasn't coming back from an injury...soooo stay tuned to a tv near you sometime in early june.

 

[DropShotArtist]

2011 Nadal would have been taken out in straights were it not for Federer

 

[Tennis_Monk]

2011 Nadal would have been taken out in straights were it not for Federer

How ?

10 aces

 

[Anaconda]

How ?

10 aces

I do believe winning in straight sets in a slam means one guy wins three. sets and the other guy wins zero. In 2011, Djokovic won all 4 sets played on clay against Nadal.

 

[tata]

Well given how rain delays have a the ability to turn matches around, then yes, it's possible. Like roddick vs fed in wimby, or perhaps even rosol vs nadal at wimby. Things went off the script once play resumed.

 

[xan]

Djokovic would have beaten Nadal at FO 2011 had he not lost to Federer. He was beating Nadal on every surface that year but not sure about 2012, Nadal was leading and was actually not down in the dumps about playing Djokovic; He had scored some wins I believe against Djokovic including a beatdown if I recall correctly.

I'm one of few who shares the same opinion.
but as someone else here said, if we start applying Ifs and buts there would be no end. as far as I'm concerned there is nothing to discuss here really..

 

[Anaconda]

Well given how rain delays have a the ability to turn matches around, then yes, it's possible. Like roddick vs fed in wimby, or perhaps even rosol vs nadal at wimby. Things went off the script once play resumed.

Wimbledon 2004 final changed the entire landscape of tennis really, would Roddick have choked against Federer in future meetings after beating him at W04? would he have changed his FH? Would Federer have been as dominant? That match pretty much sealed the fates of the #1 and #2 player.

 

[Seth]

But he didn't, though.

 

[tennisaddict]

From Tennis.com:




I like Jim, but this is a very biased statement. Nadal was slaughtering Djokovic until the court was really too wet for the tennis to continue. Obviously Nadal thought he was about 20 minutes from the title and wanted to wrap it up, which anyone else would have done in that situation, but there came a point where play should have been suspended well before it was. Does he not realize Novak would have lost in straights if it wasn't for it raining in the first place? Discuss.

You should replay the match and watch it. The third set and the fourth till rain stopped , Nadal was Slaughtered. He had no answers. That Novak was probably the best he has played on all surfaces - some peak, GOD mode tennis. If the match had continues for another 40 minutes Novak would have won an easy 4th and 5th set and hence the grand slam.

Of course , the match was really not playable on Sunday, that is an other issue, but there was never a doubt seeing Novak's level of play during the last 30-40 minutes on Sunday.

 

[kishnabe]

I agree, Djokovic should definitely have won the 2012 USO final. I am glad this opinion, nay, FACT is being voiced by an esteemed former tennis professional and ATP #1.

Too bad Djokovic is a terrible wind player....Murray is only a threat in wind. Elsewhere he is a fluke.

Explains why he got ripped apart in sets 3 and 4 of the Wimbledon final. The Roof blocked the Wind from coming in.

 

[kishnabe]

Also I truly believe Novak was lucky to even take a set in the 2012 RG final. Nadal was ruthless....the second time I wanted Nadal to win(first being the 2012 Berdych AO encounter).

Do not want to see Novak holding 4 slams.....even if it was all against the Nadal. Nadal having 7 RG makes no significant change to his resume as the Greatest Clay Court player eva. Can lose the next 5 RG in the 1st round and it will not change.

 

[Clarky21]

And if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle. It's done so why does Courier feel the need to start this crap? We could go back through the history of tennis and do what ifs all day long and it still doesn't change anything.

 

[monfed]

Also I truly believe Novak was lucky to even take a set in the 2012 RG final. Nadal was ruthless....the second time I wanted Nadal to win(first being the 2012 Berdych AO encounter).

Do not want to see Novak holding 4 slams.....even if it was all against the Nadal. Nadal having 7 RG makes no significant change to his resume as the Greatest Clay Court player eva. Can lose the next 5 RG in the 1st round and it will not change.

But Djokovic would've won the ******/Rafail slam(4 consecutive slams against Ralph). That would be a terrible stain on the Nadal,think about it.

 

[papertank]

The only thing that I think would have happened differently is that Nadal would have won the 4th set in a tiebreak instead of 7-5. Just because Djokovic had momentum going doesn't mean he was going to keep it the entire match. To keep momentum going for 2+ sets against Nadal on clay is a mammoth task.

 

[kishnabe]

But Djokovic would've won the ******/Rafail slam. That would be a terrible stain on the Nadal,think about it.

Anyone other than Federer holding 4 slams is an abomination to the sport. 7 Consecutive wins is enough of stain on Nadal.

 

[Mainad]

I agree, Djokovic should definitely have won the 2012 USO final. I am glad this opinion, nay, FACT is being voiced by an esteemed former tennis professional and ATP #1.

No, no, no. Now go back and read the start of the thread. Courier was voicing his opinion that Djokovic should have won the 2012 French Open final. He didn't make any mention of the US Open final!

Please try and stick to the subject matter of the thread. I fear your infatuation with Murray is starting to affect your mental well-being. Please try and get some help about it before the men in white coats come for you. I'm afraid that time is not far-off!

 

[magnut]

As much as I like Courier and am an avid fan....sometimes hes full of BS and likes to make controversal comments. He has become kind of an attention *****.

Anyone who remembers his latest comments on Isner should understand this.

Great player in his prime though before he turned into a headcase.

Too much ego nowdays. I still like him though. He's a jock.

 

[monfed]

Also I truly believe Novak was lucky to even take a set in the 2012 RG final. Nadal was ruthless....the second time I wanted Nadal to win(first being the 2012 Berdych AO encounter).

Do not want to see Novak holding 4 slams.....even if it was all against the Nadal. Nadal having 7 RG makes no significant change to his resume as the Greatest Clay Court player eva. Can lose the next 5 RG in the 1st round and it will not change.

Why did you want Ralph to win against Berdych, kish? :shock:

 

[MIKEPANTELAKIS]

I really believe Rafa still would've won. He (Djokovic) was playing a great match, however Rafa is still the king of clay and I believe he would've found a way.

 

[Clarky21]

As much as I like Courier and am an avid fan....sometimes hes full of BS and likes to make controversal comments. He has become kind of an attention *****.

Anyone who remembers his latest comments on Isner should understand this.

Great player in his prime though before he turned into a headcase.

Too much ego nowdays. I still like him though. He's a jock.

I don't remember. What did he say?

 

[Love_No1e]

And if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle. It's done so why does Courier feel the need to start this crap? We could go back through the history of tennis and do what ifs all day long and it still doesn't change anything.

Wait what? You don't agree with him? Wasnt Nadal playing like crap? Or do you only say negative thigs about Nadal's play when you are doing your anti jinx crap??

On topic, absolute rubbish, the rain delay did hinder Novak's momentum but he never would've had it if there wasnt a delay in the first place. This is something Novak HIMSELF admitted. So I think that's pretty much the end of it.

 

[Elite]

"Should have won" is a bit extreme. "Could have won" is perhaps more suitable. After all, Nadal 2012 Clay was utterly impressive.

 

[TCG]

Well, Duh!!!
Everyone knew that the rain delay saved Rafa from losing the title. Whats new about it?

 

[magnut]

Medvedev should have won the French Open Final Against Agassi before the Rain Delay.

Roddick should have won the Wimbledon Final Against Federer.

Courier should have won against Sampras in the 1995 Austrailian Open Quarters after being up 2 sets to love.

Courier Also should Have won the 1996 French Open quarterfinals Against Sampras after being up 2 sets to love. Then he should have won the whole tournament.

Courier also should have won the 1996 Ausie Open Quarter finals against Agassi after being up 2 sets to love. Then he should of won the whole tournament.

Courier should have won the first round at the US Open against Todd Martin after dominating the first set and a 3/4. Martin had never beaten Courier.

Courier should have won the 1993 Wimbledon Final.

Courier should have won the 1993 French Open after being up a break against Sergie in the fifth set.

We can do this forever..... especially with Jim. The zen master of "should of"

 

[The_Order]

But Djokovic would've won the ******/Rafail slam(4 consecutive slams against Ralph). That would be a terrible stain on the Nadal,think about it.

Yes, but the nadal did something about it, he was the one who reversed the tide and beat him.

Federer otoh, has not been able to reverse the tide and lost to the nadal in 3/4 majors and has had to rely on others to take the nadal out in majors because he hasn't been able to do it for 6 years.

Furthermore, the Federer knows this which is why he tanked against Novak at the USO sf 2 years in a row :lol:

 

[monfed]

Yes, but the nadal did something about it, he was the one who reversed the tide and beat him.

Federer otoh, has not been able to reverse the tide and lost to the nadal in 3/4 majors and has had to rely on others to take the nadal out in majors because he hasn't been able to do it for 6 years.

Furthermore, the Federer knows this which is why he tanked against Novak at the USO sf 2 years in a row :lol:

You're mistaken. Fed tanked in USO 2011 as he didn't want to interrupt the Joker from beating the nadal. :lol:

 

[Murrayfan31]

I agree with Courier. The conditions suited Djokovic. He would've won if they let them continue in those conditions. Even Rafa admit he wanted to stop because the conditions suited Djokovic.

 

[beast of mallorca]

^^^^Could have, should have, if, when, would have.............It DID NOT happen. Rafa won and will win again. Just have to deal with it cry babies and stop whining........:twisted::lol:

 

[monfed]

^^^^Could have, should have, if, when, would have.............It DID NOT happen. Rafa won and will win again. Just have to deal with it cry babies and stop whining........:twisted::lol:

This is what I've been trying to tell Clarky but she doesn't listen. :lol:

 

[Murrayfan31]

^^^^Could have, should have, if, when, would have.............It DID NOT happen. Rafa won and will win again. Just have to deal with it cry babies and stop whining........:twisted::lol:

I know. Just explaining why Courier's comments do make sense. But too bad they didn't let them play on. :evil:

 

[Sentinel]

So Nole has been cheated of 3 slams (2 French) by:

1. Rain
2. Wind
3. Federer (2011)

 

[beast of mallorca]

So Nole has been cheated of 3 slams (2 French) by:

1. Rain
2. Wind
3. Nadal
4.Federer (2011)

You forgot to mention Nadal himself. ........:twisted:
You're getting rusty Senti......:lol:

 

[The Meat]

So Nole has been cheated of 3 slams (2 French) by:

1. Rain
2. Wind
3. Federer (2011)

I like how 3 of things are elements of nature.

 

[The_Order]

You're mistaken. Fed tanked in USO 2011 as he didn't want to interrupt the Joker from beating the nadal. :lol:

And that's because he knew he couldn't beat the nadal himself :lol:

 

[Deleted member 77403]

Looks like we'll never know...

The rain however completely changed the dynamics of the match, it was a different match when Djokovic starting gaining momentum...and it wasn't going to stop raining that day.

 

[sbengte]

Furthermore, the Federer knows this which is why he tanked against Novak at the USO sf 2 years in a row :lol:

Still hurting that Nadal was one measly point away from winning a second USO title in 2011 ? :lol:

 

[sbengte]

2011 Nadal would have been taken out in straights were it not for Federer

I will always hate Federer for that match. Prevented a sure shot CYGS for Nole :evil:

 

[Feather]

Still hurting that Nadal was one measly point away from winning a second USO title in 2011 ? :lol:

hehehehe

RG 2011 and USO 2011 - sounds like a deal.

Roger tanked to let Novak win US 2011
Roger beat Novak to let Rafa win RG 2011

May be Roger didn't want one guy to win both slams and come closer to his slam count

 

[Bender]

hehehehe

RG 2011 and USO 2011 - sounds like a deal.

Roger tanked to let Novak win US 2011
Roger beat Novak to let Rafa win RG 2011

May be Roger didn't want one guy to win both slams and come closer to his slam count

You'd think with that kind of power, he'd just go ahead and win both himself haha

Anyway, I think Courier's wrong on this one - rain drenched the courts and the ball wasn't bouncing like it should have. Djokovic couldn't do anything until the rain and it was a rather one sided affair. The match should've been postponed far sooner than it did. Incidentally I think Djokovic would've been straight-setted if it had been the case - Djokovic was lucky he won a set at all, just as Nadal was lucky he took a set off Nole at the USO the year before.

 

[Feather]

You'd think with that kind of power, he'd just go ahead and win both himself haha

Anyway, I think Courier's wrong on this one - rain drenched the courts and the ball wasn't bouncing like it should have. Djokovic couldn't do anything until the rain and it was a rather one sided affair. The match should've been postponed far sooner than it did. Incidentally I think Djokovic would've been straight-setted if it had been the case - Djokovic was lucky he won a set at all, just as Nadal was lucky he took a set off Nole at the USO the year before.

Holy Christ, I was being sarcastic. It's just that I didn't add emoticons at the end. A lot of troll posts were there about Roger tanking and all so I just added to it.

For the record, I don't think professional players with such big ego will tank against their opponents in a masters match let alone the SF of a major

 

[The_Order]

Still hurting that Nadal was one measly point away from winning a second USO title in 2011 ? :lol:

Nope. I'm quite happy with what Nadal has achieved.

He'll get his chances again with the USO, but Novak truly deserved it that year he was a machine and he capped it off by winning his 3rd major of the year.

 

[pds999]

From Tennis.com:

Two time Roland Garros champion and U.S. Davis Cup captain Jim Courier says that if not for a rain delay he believes Novak Djokovic would have beaten Rafael Nadal for the French Open title last June. Play was suspended with Nadal trying to protect a 6-4, 6-3, 2-6, 1-2 lead on Sunday, but Nadal came back on Monday and completed a 6-4, 6-3, 2-6, 7-5 win contested over two days.

“I think [Djokovic] would have [won Roland Garros] last year but for a rain delay,” Courier said. “Certainly [he] can [this year].”



I like Jim, but this is a very biased statement. Nadal was slaughtering Djokovic until the court was really too wet for the tennis to continue. Obviously Nadal thought he was about 20 minutes from the title and wanted to wrap it up, which anyone else would have done in that situation, but there came a point where play should have been suspended well before it was. Does he not realize Novak would have lost in straights if it wasn't for it raining in the first place? Discuss.

Completely agree. Courier is a bit of a twit making that statement. Had it not been for the rain, Djokovic would have lost in straight sets.