Courier says Djokovic should have won....
- Thread starter MichaelNadal
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ericsson
Hall of Fame
i totally agree.
vive le beau jeu !
Talk Tennis Guru
as much as i dislike courier, i have to admit that he's right on that one.
Gonzalito17
Banned
Jim is right, Djokovic would have won, the rains and Rafa whining to ump to stop match is what saved Nadal. Eight straight games, total momentum, up a break in the fourth, almost two breaks but Nadal's incessant whining disrupted the match. Then when they resumed play the next day, Rafa got the break back quickly and Djok couldn't build a lead and Nadal kept the pressure on and eventually won it.
Djokovic had control of the match and Nadal was crying like a baby in the 4th set, to put it bluntly. If Nadal was cruising in the 4th with a lead you know for 100% FACT he would have wanted to finish it off and he would have. The conditions were wet but nobody was falling or slipping. Nadal cleverly used the rain excuse to savehimself and kill Djok's momentum and he stole that title with craftiness and bully tactics on the umpire and the other official. Djokovic was too nice and should have asserted himself more to continue the match during the discussions but he was too passive and let Nadal dictate everything.
Djokovic had control of the match and Nadal was crying like a baby in the 4th set, to put it bluntly. If Nadal was cruising in the 4th with a lead you know for 100% FACT he would have wanted to finish it off and he would have. The conditions were wet but nobody was falling or slipping. Nadal cleverly used the rain excuse to savehimself and kill Djok's momentum and he stole that title with craftiness and bully tactics on the umpire and the other official. Djokovic was too nice and should have asserted himself more to continue the match during the discussions but he was too passive and let Nadal dictate everything.
Gonzalito17
Banned
I would like to know if the rain continued or came harder or subsided in the hour or so after the match was stopped?
Also, Fred Perry once said of imperfect or poor conditions, such as last year's final: "Great champions should never have to play in conditions like that."
It was a shame the weather factored into a GS final but that's tennis. Hopefully Djokovic learned something from it.
Also, Fred Perry once said of imperfect or poor conditions, such as last year's final: "Great champions should never have to play in conditions like that."
It was a shame the weather factored into a GS final but that's tennis. Hopefully Djokovic learned something from it.
Tennis_Monk
Hall of Fame
What IF it rained and stopped after 10 minutes?
What IF it was intermittent (multiple stoppages)?
What IF one of the players slipped and injured because the courts were so damp?
What IF One of the players got distracted by a line call?
What IF no one was able to break through in fifth set and the game went on (like Isner vs Mahut)?
What IF peak Bjorn was still playing?
what IF one of the TW >4.5 members chose to play FO?
What IF it was intermittent (multiple stoppages)?
What IF one of the players slipped and injured because the courts were so damp?
What IF One of the players got distracted by a line call?
What IF no one was able to break through in fifth set and the game went on (like Isner vs Mahut)?
What IF peak Bjorn was still playing?
what IF one of the TW >4.5 members chose to play FO?
E36BMWM3
Hall of Fame
Don't care if Courier was a former #1 and how his opinion might outweigh others'... The fact of the matter is, Nadal won... It's absolutely fine to speculate on what WOULD have happened, but at the end of the day it's not what TRULY happened... Same argument could be made for AO 2012 final... had it not been for that missed down-the-line backhand by Nadal, he would've walked away with the title... but he didn't. Let's walk away from the past and focus on the upcoming 2013 clay season.
batz
G.O.A.T.
Do keep crying like an ickle girl about the fact that Andy Murray is uso champion. Your every moan is extending the joy I derive from his win.
Please cry some more
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veroniquem
Bionic Poster
By the way, Djoko has lost 4 times vs Nadal at RG, Fed 5 times. Hard to argue "chance" with those stats...
Rocky89
Professional
They never should have played for so long in the rain anyways, the match should have been delayed long before it was.
At the end of the day Nadal won fair and square.
Strange comments from Courier.
This entire post is so cringe-worthy.
How dare Nadal say the conditions were unplayable, ridiculous to expect them to continue playing on that muddy court. Djokovic should be thankful it was raining otherwise he never would have won a set.
At the end of the day Nadal won fair and square.
Strange comments from Courier.
This entire post is so cringe-worthy.
How dare Nadal say the conditions were unplayable, ridiculous to expect them to continue playing on that muddy court. Djokovic should be thankful it was raining otherwise he never would have won a set.
This.........
kragster
Hall of Fame
Great post. I'm a fan of both players and although I do think the momentum was on Djoko's side when the match was stopped, it's ridiculous to say that 'he should have won'. The match was stopped for a legitimate reason and we can never know what happened. I can't even count the number of matches where one player dominates a set, only to get dominated the next set. Heck pretty much every Federer Djokovic match is like that.
It's the equivalent of a player A get a bad line call in Set 1 which would have helped them win the set and then when player B wins the next 3 sets, folks say Player A could have won! (IF he hadn't gotten the bad call, he could have won the 1st set. IF he won the 1st set he would have had confidence.IF he had confidence he would have won the next set....)
As batz likes to say, if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.
This post sticks out like a soar thumb. 3 of those 4 times, in 2006, 2007 and 2008, Djokovic was going into those matches with form nothing like 2011. Here's another fact, Djokovic won every set played on clay and was in fact more dominant on clay against Nadal than any other surface in 2011. Pretty sure Djokovic has more of a chance when stepping onto the court against Nadal.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Coulda, woulda, shoulda... if only the rain hadn't fallen, if only the wind hadn't blown, if only the sun hadn't shone so brightly, if only it hadn't been so hot, if only it hadn't been so cold, if only Player A hadn't been so tired, if only Player B hadn't sprained his little finger, if only the court hadn't been so slow, if only the court hadn't been so fast, if only the court hadn't been so blue, if only Player A hadn't split up with his girlfriend, if only Player B's third cousin twice removed hadn't died, if only, if only, if only, etc. etc. etc......!
How about we just deal with what actually happened, accept it and move on. Now there's a dangerously radical new approach!!
How about we just deal with what actually happened, accept it and move on. Now there's a dangerously radical new approach!!
kragster
Hall of Fame
Coulda, woulda, shoulda... if only the rain hadn't fallen, if only the wind hadn't blown, if only the sun hadn't shone so brightly, if only it hadn't been so hot, if only it hadn't been so cold, if only Player A hadn't been so tired, if only Player B hadn't sprained his little finger, if only the court hadn't been so slow, if only the court hadn't been so fast, if only the court hadn't been so blue, if only Player A hadn't split up with his girlfriend, if only Player B's third cousin twice removed hadn't died, if only, if only, if only, etc. etc. etc......!
How about we just deal with what actually happened, accept it and move on. Now there's a dangerously radical new approach!!
Complete nonsense. All Andy Murray victories henceforth shall be attributed to category 3 hurricanes.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
First of all, it depends which clay court event. Djoko's had his best record in Rome. Still he's lost to Nadal 3 times there. Djoko has lost every single clay match he's played vs Nadal except for those 2 in 2011 which makes 2011 the exception, not the rule and it's not for lack of playing each other in 2012 since they met 3 times, same as 2009, with same results.
That's not to say that Djoko is not an interesting challenger but unless he somehow recovers his 2011 superman form (which is quite obvious he hasn't even on hard), Nadal will be the favorite by a comfy margin in their future clay encounters. That's the hard facts. Everything else is pure fantasy or wishful thinking. (AND Nadal looks rather better this season than he did last year to boot).
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Blimey O'Riley, Murray AGAIN? You're another one with a weird fixation about him. You need to accompany The Bawss to see that shrink. The pair of you need help urgently before your brains completely implode!
BTW, are you by any chance an English football fan or a Federer fanboy? Maybe both? Coz if you are, that would certainly explain a great deal about your OCMD problem!
uliks
Banned
You have a really really big problem with sarcasm detection...
pds999
Hall of Fame
Well only insofar as a 10% chance of winning is better than a 5% chance of winning. Let's be honest, the H2H isn't even competitive on clay between Rafa and Djok. Not even worth arguing about really.
hoodjem
G.O.A.T.
This assessment does not correspond to my memory of the match. In my opinion right before the rain delay it seemed that the momentum had swung to Djokovic's side and that he was headed toward winning.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Is that so?. But I can't help but wonder why this so-called 'sarcasm' is always directed at Murray? Who mentioned or even talked about Murray? The thread is about Djokovic and Nadal at last year's FO final. So why isn't this 'sarcasm' turned in their direction?
People who can't stick to the subject of the thread and suddenly introduce someone or something else entirely for no obvious reason whatsoever suffer, in my view, from a form of OCD whether you get the impression they are just being 'sarcastic' or not.
Post #4 and a fair few after that.
uliks
Banned
Yes you right hoodjem. Seems that MichaelNadal for some reason has forgotten about that part of the last year RG final.
What ever makes you sleep. Please don't be surprised if Djokovic takes out Nadal at the FO this year. Nadal would be favourite seeing as he is the guy on clay, but Djokovic on his day can beat any player regardless of how well they are playing. I believe Djokovic will win all 4 slams this year.
kragster
Hall of Fame
Hmm, your SOH needs a lot of work Mainad. Either that or you clearly have a chip on your shoulder when it comes to Murray. If you look at any of my Murray mocking posts , I take it to the extreme where any rational person should be able to detect that I can't be serious. Heck in the post about whether Murray should be part of the big 4, I called the USO the most worthless slam and I called Fed a hack! You can't believe I was serious. And me being called a Federer fanboy is the funniest thing I have every heard!
Anyway, I shall direct future humor at batz or Fedex
.P.S - I recommend you stay away from TTMR's posts. His sarcasm is way more subtle than mine and if you can't detect mine, good luck with his.
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I don't follow. I thought you were asking if Murray had been mentioned in this thread before?
batz
G.O.A.T.
Fiji
Legend
Nope. He will be lucky to win another slam this year. Maybe the USO but even there he has a loser H2H in finals, 1-3
, so it's not a foregone conclusion he will win there this year. Haven't seen his 2011 form since 2011.:shock:
batz
G.O.A.T.
Nope. He will be lucky to win another slam this year. Maybe the USO but even there he has a loser H2H in finals, 1-3
I think that's a bit strong but I don't think Nole is currently at 'peak Roger' type domination so therefore the odds of a Grand Slam happening are pretty long.
Fiji
Legend
He seems to be an AO specialist(4 out of his 6 slams) with some outliers during his peak year at Wimbledon and the USO. I haven't seen the peak Nole that won slams outside the AO since 2011.
kragster
Hall of Fame
Djokovic is a lock for FO and I believe he is by far the most naturally gifted grass courter even though the results show otherwise. USO is basically AO in the US so he is a lock for that as well.
The only question mark around the CYGS for Nole is Isner's form at USO. If Isner can fix his mental stuff, he would be the favorite since he is the more skilled of the two. As I've said before, Nole can run all he wants but he can't outrun an ace.
You've misinterpreted my post. Never did I say Djokovic was a lock. Nor did I say he would be favourite to win the FO against Nadal. All I said was I feel Djokovic will defy the odds and win all four slams this year. He's losing earlier in tournaments this year, which should help his. We all know the ability is there.
Fiji
Legend
He is past his peak, he won't do it. His best chance was during his golden 2011.
Ah, gotcha. Yes, a quick look at his previous posts shows an odd infatuation with hating Murray.
I remember Djokovic's career being over mid 2008 from the commentators. On TW in 2009, I also remember Djokovic's career being over, oh yeah, I also remember Djokovic having no chance in 2010 according to everyone. People like to talk down Djokovic, I think he's worthy of the hype I am giving him.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Okay, I got you wrong, I apologise. There are just so many annoying anti-Murray trolls around here it's not always easy to separate the genuine nutcases from the obvious wind-up merchants. Believe me, I get fed up having to post about Murray so much and would really like to enjoy a discussion about somebody else for a change without somebody dragging Murray's name into everything apropos nothing at all. He gets enough threads and stick of his own round here! The Bawss does enough of that kind of trolling single-handedly without anybody giving him a helping hand!
Anyway, I shall direct future humor at batz or Fedex
Trust me, I do have a sense of humour. I'm sure Batz and Fedex will both vouch for that. I assure you I do appreciate a good p1ss-take as well as anybody!
Oh, I'm quite well-acquainted with TTMR and his posts. Maybe you should read some of my replies to him if you think I can't treat this subject with a bit of counter-trolling of my own! (Mind you I still have one or two doubts about him because he can post quite seriously as well). ;-)
Clarky21
Banned
People like to talk down Cvac? Have you had your head buried in the sand for the past 2 years?
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Sounds like that's something else he's got in common with Murray! ;-)
Fiji
Legend
Djokovic is still in his prime but past his peak.
I rarely posted here from 2010 onwards. He got quite a lot of stick in 2009. I had to defend him a lot back then.
Bhagi Katbamna
Legend
And....if my aunt had testes she would be my uncle.
No. Murray's career has never came into question. Djokovic's has on many occasions. I remember his career being over in 2008, 2009 and 2010. I was pretty much the only guy who said Djokovic would (yes WOULD) win 6-10 slams in 2009 even when he was playing dirt crap. He was crap, had technical flaws and still ended every year in a high position and respectable slam results.
Murray on the other hand has been praised and hyped by the media since 2008 US Open. Complete contrast from Djokovic if you ask me. It was only in 2011 Djokovic became hyped again.
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single_handed_champion
Professional
But for a rain delay. Assuming it continued to rain. Assuming Djokovic's form did not drop. Assuming Nadal's did not improve. Blah blah blah.
But for the elements (i.e if all tennis could be played indoors) Federer would have won everything in sight for a decade. You get the point.
Fact is tennis is stopped when the court gets too wet. Fact is Nadal was clearly the much better player for a majority of the match (ironically even when the conditions were not ideal). That the Djoke would have won if not for the delay is a..........N OPINION. (5555, care to chime in?)
But for the elements (i.e if all tennis could be played indoors) Federer would have won everything in sight for a decade. You get the point.
Fact is tennis is stopped when the court gets too wet. Fact is Nadal was clearly the much better player for a majority of the match (ironically even when the conditions were not ideal). That the Djoke would have won if not for the delay is a..........N OPINION. (5555, care to chime in?)
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