Creating Powerful 2HBH’s – the ‘Flex’

[DavaiMarat]

Creating Powerful 2HBH’s – the ‘Flex’

Hi people. I’ve been studying a few players that have alleged ‘powerful’ 2HBHs. Players like Safin, Nalbandian, Agassi and Verdasco to name a few. These players have different grips, footwork etc…but I’ve noticed one commonality amongst them. It’s something I named the ‘flex’ but I’m sure other tennis guru’s call it ‘wrist snap’ or whatever. Here are some slow mo videos to show what I mean.


Safin – at the 0.09s mark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYW7DaiX6hk


Verdasco – at the 1.43-1.44s mark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5U-eeac9qo


Both players start with their racquet head above their wrists but as they come down and forwards the hands and shoulder, they start to lay their wrists back to an L position with their forearms to create proper leverage. In doing so the forward movement with the arms and shoulder turn and they backwards motion with the wrists creates what looks like a power snap or flex in the frame. If you watch carefully, it looks like the racquet is going on direction (straight down) and is suddenly jerked forwards as the arms and hips catch up. The racquet almost stands still for a split second and you can almost feel the elastic power generated by the two different forces acting in opposite direction. This is what I feel gives these players the power to crush balls versus other players who use the backhand such as a study eddy shot.

You may remember my thread about Tony’s L’s backhand, his take back is straight back with the wrists already laid in the L leverage position. There is no flex generated in this sort of 2HBH. Don’t mistake me, Tony’s 2Handed backhand is not incorrect but it’s a wing he generates a ton of winners from and as he said himself, his 2HBH keeps him in the game while his Forehand does the damage.

Now, creating the right kind of imagery or muscle memory to create a powerful flex like these guys do is what I’m asking of all the tennis guru’s out there. Wil, Papa, Tennis Mastery, Bill what drills or exercises can I do to help myself, my students and others attain a powerful 2HBH snap!

Thanks!

 

[DavaiMarat]

C'mon Dreamer I know you're dying to post something....

 

[TennisCJC]

I think what you are seeing is how the wrist naturally lays back when the body, arms and hands start forward. I think of it diffently. I don't think lay the wrist back halfway thru the swing, instead I think loop. The racket head is slightly above the heads on the pivot, then you go into the "C" loop where the racket/hands go back a bit, down, and finally out and up into contact continuing up and thru the ball until they reach full extension and then wrap over the right shoulder. The "C" loop is also used on the forehand with players that start the side pivot with the racket head up almost above the hands, and then loop into contact. I think it would be detrimental to think lay the wrist back or adjust the wrist. Instead, just relax the hands and execute a loop back, down, up, thru and wrap in unision with you hips and shoulders uncoiling. If you sync the racket head/hands loop with the body uncoiling; you should generate plenty of power. The only difference I see in a pro's forehand and 2 hand BH is most pros don't start the racket head quite as high on the 2 hand BH as they do on the forehand. Safin is a bit of an exception as he has a racket head almost directly above the hands after the initial pivot, Agassi's was above the hands but a little lower than Safins. Hewitt has a much lower racket head and stiffer arms thru the loop but even Hewitt executes a small C loop. Agassi and Safin have looser loops starting from a higher postion which will generate more racket head speed. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

 

[DavaiMarat]

I think what you are seeing is how the wrist naturally lays back when the body, arms and hands start forward. I think of it diffently. I don't think lay the wrist back halfway thru the swing, instead I think loop. The racket head is slightly above the heads on the pivot, then you go into the "C" loop where the racket/hands go back a bit, down, and finally out and up into contact continuing up and thru the ball until they reach full extension and then wrap over the right shoulder. The "C" loop is also used on the forehand with players that start the side pivot with the racket head up almost above the hands, and then loop into contact. I think it would be detrimental to think lay the wrist back or adjust the wrist. Instead, just relax the hands and execute a loop back, down, up, thru and wrap in unision with you hips and shoulders uncoiling. If you sync the racket head/hands loop with the body uncoiling; you should generate plenty of power. The only difference I see in a pro's forehand and 2 hand BH is most pros don't start the racket head quite as high on the 2 hand BH as they do on the forehand. Safin is a bit of an exception as he has a racket head almost directly above the hands after the initial pivot, Agassi's was above the hands but a little lower than Safins. Hewitt has a much lower racket head and stiffer arms thru the loop but even Hewitt executes a small C loop. Agassi and Safin have looser loops starting from a higher postion which will generate more racket head speed. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

I use a loop as well but I distinctly see racquet moving in two different direction as the result of the shoulder bringing the hands forward and the wrist laying the racquet back. There's a very noticeable whip of the racquet head. In safin's case you can actually see the frame flex a tad. This could be because he's got very long levers and is a beast but it's present in most pros with powerful 2HBH's.

It's a lot like the 'crack of the whip' motion but horizontal not vertical. Maybe the key to the power is the high to low supination of left forearm from a high racquet head position to a low position then forward letting gravity add some extra mustard. It seems almost like the racquet head is falling then suddenly swept up in the upward motion of the arms. It's kinda like a anvil falling onto fast moving car (- lol that's the best analogy I could come up worth - Bugs Bunny would approve!)

What I might be seeing is a optical illusion but I think there's some notion in how they use the wrist to generate that extra power.

 

[tricky]

Now, creating the right kind of imagery

When you're initiating your forward swing, visualize that your racquet is coming out of a vertical slot. Or, you can visualize that the left side fence is close to you.

By itself, this "wrist flex" doesn't add power, BUT it is a sign of very strong "driver hand" dominance. When the left hand is very dominant, your left shoulder turns more freely and explosively. That element leads to passive lay-back of the wrist, which then recovers to a more stable wrist position as you go through the contact point.

Here's one way to get that strong left hand dominance
1) When you initiate the loop or smile pattern, use primarily your right arm/hand to bring the racquet pack. This will enable the left arm/hand to load/stretch more freely.

2) To enhance the above, try shadow swinging and have your right hand hold the racquet with just the thumb and 3rd finger. Hold the racquet normally in your left hand. This will help rewire your muscle memory and "bias" your swing toward leftie hand dominance.

 

[DavaiMarat]

When you're initiating your forward swing, visualize that your racquet is coming out of a vertical slot. Or, you can visualize that the left side fence is close to you.

By itself, this "wrist flex" doesn't add power, BUT it is a sign of very strong "driver hand" dominance. When the left hand is very dominant, your left shoulder turns more freely and explosively. That element leads to passive lay-back of the wrist, which then recovers to a more stable wrist position as you go through the contact point.

Here's one way to get that strong left hand dominance
1) When you initiate the loop or smile pattern, use primarily your right arm/hand to bring the racquet pack. This will enable the left arm/hand to load/stretch more freely.

2) To enhance the above, try shadow swinging and have your right hand hold the racquet with just the thumb and 3rd finger. Hold the racquet normally in your left hand. This will help rewire your muscle memory and "bias" your swing toward leftie hand dominance.

Interesting, I like the vertical slot analogy very much. I think the vertical drop of the racquet and then the forward shoulder turn is exactly what I'm seeing.

So you see where they racquet looks like it almost stops and goes in another direction? I've seen this phenoma in the best 2HBH on tour.

 

[Ross K]

When you're initiating your forward swing, visualize that your racquet is coming out of a vertical slot. Or, you can visualize that the left side fence is close to you.

By itself, this "wrist flex" doesn't add power, BUT it is a sign of very strong "driver hand" dominance. When the left hand is very dominant, your left shoulder turns more freely and explosively. That element leads to passive lay-back of the wrist, which then recovers to a more stable wrist position as you go through the contact point.

Here's one way to get that strong left hand dominance
1) When you initiate the loop or smile pattern, use primarily your right arm/hand to bring the racquet pack. This will enable the left arm/hand to load/stretch more freely.

2) To enhance the above, try shadow swinging and have your right hand hold the racquet with just the thumb and 3rd finger. Hold the racquet normally in your left hand. This will help rewire your muscle memory and "bias" your swing toward leftie hand dominance.

Can you elaborate a bit more on this please tricky... btw, good to hear from you again.

TIA,
R.

 

[papa]

Tricky posts are always interesting and I happen to like many of his comments.

Its my belief that the right hand doesn't trust the left hand to do anything right. When we "allow" the right hand to be in a power position, it will take over and basically ruin the shot. So I like to see that hand rotated more to and EF grip.

You can also achieve this "flex" (not a bad term) by just getting the racquet pointed at 45 degrees during the bottom of the loop or take-back. If the right hand remains in a power position (like an EB or Continental) its a little harder/more uncomfortable to do. Many just take the racquet straight back and IMO don't get enough action into the ball.

 

[DavaiMarat]

Tricky posts are always interesting and I happen to like many of his comments.

Its my belief that the right hand doesn't trust the left hand to do anything right. When we "allow" the right hand to be in a power position, it will take over and basically ruin the shot. So I like to see that hand rotated more to and EF grip.

You can also achieve this "flex" (not a bad term) by just getting the racquet pointed at 45 degrees during the bottom of the loop or take-back. If the right hand remains in a power position (like an EB or Continental) its a little harder/more uncomfortable to do. Many just take the racquet straight back and IMO don't get enough action into the ball.

Interesting Papa, what grip would you suggest for the right hand? Most people recommend the continental...I've also heard talk of a tight fisted hammer grip for the right hand. Thanks for your interest.

 

[papa]

Interesting Papa, what grip would you suggest for the right hand? Most people recommend the continental...I've also heard talk of a tight fisted hammer grip for the right hand. Thanks for your interest.

Well, each player is somewhat different so its not a "one-solution" fits all type thing. I would like to see the right hand (assume a RH player) rotated more to weak continental or EF grip. If you find that the racquet often ends up just in the right hand "after" the stroke, the grip "probably" is too strong. Many players attempt/try to have the right hand almost in a EB or strong continental grip so the right hand is doing too much of the job.

 

[salsainglesa]

By itself, this "wrist flex" doesn't add power, BUT it is a sign of very strong "driver hand" dominance. When the left hand is very dominant, your left shoulder turns more freely and explosively. That element leads to passive lay-back of the wrist, which then recovers to a more stable wrist position as you go through the contact point.

Would you say that if you dont do that deviation, then there is no need to be added to add power?

Could you have a very dominant drive hand without that deviation of the non dominant hand?

I like to have the stable wrists all the way through my stroke. The less unnecesary movements the best, right?

 

[tricky]

Can you elaborate a bit more on this please

When you're initiating your forward swing, visualize that your racquet is coming out of a vertical slot. Or, you can visualize that the left side fence is close to you.

It's similar to the "racquet head between hands" drill on Nick Bolliterri's "Killer Forehand" video. In that drill, you practice your forward swing where the racquet head is between two hands of another person (i.e. a slot.) The trick is to swing forward while preventing the racquet head from touching either hand, until the racquet head is fully out of the slot. This teaches your wrist to stretch back as you swing forward.

The visualization can be used for different things. I only use it to improve wiping action with the FH, but it can work in this context. Whether you want to use it that way, there's pro/con. It can give you a burst of acceleration at the beginning of the forward swing. But very strong left hand dominance is what enables pros to really accelerate the racquet through the ball.

So you see where they racquet looks like it almost stops and goes in another direction? I've seen this phenoma in the best 2HBH on tour.

Yes. This is what's called a "motion dependent effect." The wrist lays back passively due to the torque generated between the racquet and the left shoulder turning strongly. Because this is a stretched position for the wrist, the wrist itself will return to a more neutral position prior to contact point. Provided the person doesn't consciously snap his wrist forward (never a good idea in groundstrokes), it will not release any further. While this does not directly contribute to power in the stroke, it's one of the signs that you have power in your BH.

I like to have the stable wrists all the way through my stroke. The less unnecesary movements the best, righ

The wrist itself is stable. It's like a WW FH. The wrist lays back briefly, but it doesn't release (that much) through the contact point. It's safe.

Could you have a very dominant drive hand without that deviation of the non dominant hand?

Eh . . . only if you consciously suppress it. Here's the big picture reasoning. If you have a very strong left hand dominance, this wrist thing will happen without you really noticing it. And you'll get all of the other benefits with this kidn of dominance, including continuous power through the ball. If you don't have very strong left hand dominance, you can still add it with a visualization. You'll enjoy a burst of acceleration, but it's "not as good."

This of course begs the question, what is very strong left hand dominance? Well, one tell is that, when a pro hits through the ball, their back shoulder is still higher than their front, regardless of how high they had to hit the ball. This is not due to them self-consciously keeping their left shoulder up or tilting their trunk. It's due to their left hand dominance.

 

[Zachol82]

It's just an ordinary whip-like "snap." If you think about it, in order to use a whip correctly, the wrist ALWAYS relaxes, and snaps back right before it snaps forward. This motion is VERY common in Tennis. It applies to forehands, backhands, serves and overheads.

The whipping motion is implemented because it is one technique of transferring energy effectively from one point to another. If you think about it, a whip is very limp, very flexible, this means that it's not very good at transferring energy from one end to the other (handle to tip). Sure, you can "swing" with a whip and still hurt someone with it, but the energy is dispersed evenly along the entire whip. However, if you "snap" the wrist or "crack" the whip, the energy transferred from your wrist is then focused on solely the very tip of the whip, creating a lot more force on impact at the tip.

Likewise, snapping the wrist in Tennis effectively transfers energy from you to the tip of your racquet, or your stringbed.

 

[DavaiMarat]

It's just an ordinary whip-like "snap." If you think about it, in order to use a whip correctly, the wrist ALWAYS relaxes, and snaps back right before it snaps forward. This motion is VERY common in Tennis. It applies to forehands, backhands, serves and overheads.

The whipping motion is implemented because it is one technique of transferring energy effectively from one point to another. If you think about it, a whip is very limp, very flexible, this means that it's not very good at transferring energy from one end to the other (handle to tip). Sure, you can "swing" with a whip and still hurt someone with it, but the energy is dispersed evenly along the entire whip. However, if you "snap" the wrist or "crack" the whip, the energy transferred from your wrist is then focused on solely the very tip of the whip, creating a lot more force on impact at the tip.

Likewise, snapping the wrist in Tennis effectively transfers energy from you to the tip of your racquet, or your stringbed.

Interesting, tricky refers to it as a passive action yet you describe it as a conscious snapping on the wrist. I guess there's seems to be two schools of thought. Leave the wrist loose yet accelerate the forearm to create an elastic stretch which will return to a more stable position hence creating a snap like visual effect. Zachol describes it as truly a whip like action that would involve the slowing of the acceleration and deceleration of the forearm to let wrists flex against a fulcrum causing a snap and rapid racquet acceleration of the racquet head much like the serve.

I've always set my wrists back into the slot position like Tony L all through my college playing years. Back then I sported a POG but 12 years ago I switched to a mid prestige and Ive incorporated a loop to generate extra power. I can drive and hit winners with it but I'm trying to distill the essence of it. Id like go simplify it more probably into a smile pattern.

Thanks for everyones interest.

 

[Funbun]

Interesting, tricky refers to it as a passive action yet you describe it as a conscious snapping on the wrist. I guess there's seems to be two schools of thought. Leave the wrist loose yet accelerate the forearm to create an elastic stretch which will return to a more stable position hence creating a snap like visual effect. Zachol describes it as truly a whip like action that would involve the slowing of the acceleration and deceleration of the forearm to let wrists flex against a fulcrum causing a snap and rapid racquet acceleration of the racquet head much like the serve.

I've always set my wrists back into the slot position like Tony L all through my college playing years. Back then I sported a POG but 12 years ago I switched to a mid prestige and Ive incorporated a loop to generate extra power. I can drive and hit winners with it but I'm trying to distill the essence of it. Id like go simplify it more probably into a smile pattern.

Thanks for everyones interest.

Well, it can be a passive, conscious action. It's as passive and conscious as laying your wrist back on your forehand. You do it, but you don't really think about it. Sure, while learning the forehand, you lay your wrist back, but eventually it becomes a natural action as much as picking up a pencil and writing.

 

[Zachol82]

Interesting, tricky refers to it as a passive action yet you describe it as a conscious snapping on the wrist. I guess there's seems to be two schools of thought.

Yes, it can be both conscious and passive. Passive in that your wrist will automatically snap if your arm and wrist are both relaxed.

 

[Power Player]

It seems like the OP is talking about the racquet drop that helps create momentum and topspin, but I could be off here.