Crispiness.... Federer/Nadal Miami 05

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster


Nadal should have won this, but extra crispy regardless. Only their second meeting, Nadal was just coming into his peak, and Fed was out to prove Miami 04 was a fluke from the pesky kid :p I know he had to be thinking how in the hell is this dude doing this to me?
 

ForehandRF

Hall of Fame

Nadal should have won this, but extra crispy regardless. Only their second meeting, Nadal was just coming into his peak, and Fed was out to prove Miami 04 was a fluke from the pesky kid :p I know he had to be thinking how in the hell is this dude doing this to me?
Fed meet Nadal on the worst hardcourt possible for him but credit to Nadal for playing so well and he could have won.This was the proof that that wicked lefty top spin forehand will cause some nightmares :D
 

Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
Nadal was robbed of several BP opportunities in this match, for sure. BPs that could have altered the course of the match.

But it's definitely on him for proceeding to blow a 2-0 lead after that.
 

Hitman

Legend
Both Federer and Nadal were on winning streaks at this point, both had won the last two tournaments they had played heading into this final.
 

ForehandCross

Hall of Fame
Is it me or it is clear that it's weird for Federer to play against Nadal BH? So much talk of Nadal's FH to Federer Bh but in the match it seems to me Federer was really having a hard time deciphering Nadal's BH.

Nadal really didn't go for FH to BH if my memory serves me right.

Federer was an error machine in first set.

Nadal was a Pandora box for Federer. For all talks of Federer never letting you be comfortable on court, Young Nadal was a mystery to Federer.

He kind of never really seemed comfortable in this match.

Nadal's defence and his weird lefty BH basically neutralised Federer's go to weapon(His FH).

The call was an unfortunate one but there still was a lot of tennis played afterwards. And for the first and the last time in both of their career, Nadal was the physically lesser player of the two.That decided the match.

Federer didn't learn his lesson though. Even in RG 2005 he tried to blow Nadal off the court. He succeeded slightly more, because his FH was good on that day, but the point remained Federer had to go out of his own comfort Zone to beat him.

Federer kind of did that in Rome 2006,he used every inch of the court to perfection. But by that time Nadal had developed into such a physical monster that it was near impossible to beat him.

Federer himself gave his physical best in Rome but Nadal edged him. You won't see a well playing Nadal be overwhelmed on clay like the 4th set. But Nadal always hung on.

And once Federer himself started to fall from the stratospheric levels,it became impossible for him to keep up with Rafael.


I think had 2009 injury not happened ,Roger may not have ever returned to domination.
 

Hitman

Legend
Dang Nadal had to win a lot to get to #2 lol
He had won 5 tournaments before the FO.
Yes, that is true. Hewitt had a lot of points back then, because Hewitt had the USO final, the WTF final and the AO final...so you can imagine that to beat that, Rafa needed to win heavy.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
It's all about straying further away from the ideal of peak ballstriking. A large part of Nadal's game is about making his opponent play worse via topspinbotting and crazy gets.
It used to be. But that's epic within itself, it takes an insane amount of talent and energy to do that..... especially against someone hitting as well as Peak Federer.
The Maestro only lost 5 matches in 2006..... and 4 of those were to Rafa. That's insane man, gotta give the Dal credit. Literally no one else could even touch Fed, Nadal had him screaming at himself in anger lol
 
You act like it’s only your idea of good tennis that’s correct.
Good is what wins, facts be facts. Now the aesthethically superior is of course the one with the higher peak, in accordance with the general principle of striving for the best possible. It's annoying Federer's personal weakness has been so exposeable, sometimes I think he's not worthy of how much talent he's got. Could have long ago stamped the ultimately superiority of the game he's been naturally blessed with the ability for.
 

Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
Good is what wins, facts be facts. Now the aesthethically superior is of course the one with the higher peak, in accordance with the general principle of striving for the best possible. It's annoying Federer's personal weakness has been so exposeable, sometimes I think he's not worthy of how much talent he's got. Could have long ago stamped the ultimately superiority of the game he's been naturally blessed with the ability for.
I perhaps used the wrong word. By "good" I meant "aesthetically pleasing".

Obviously, good tennis wins matches.
 
I perhaps used the wrong word. By "good" I meant "aesthetically pleasing".

Obviously, good tennis wins matches.
Morally pleasing too. But Nadal did his job of exposing Federer's tennis as less otherworldly than we'd have liked to believe. I state emphatically that he didn't give his godgiven ability its due. His skill has always been stronger than his mind.
 

ForehandCross

Hall of Fame
Good is what wins, facts be facts. Now the aesthethically superior is of course the one with the higher peak, in accordance with the general principle of striving for the best possible. It's annoying Federer's personal weakness has been so exposeable, sometimes I think he's not worthy of how much talent he's got. Could have long ago stamped the ultimately superiority of the game he's been naturally blessed with the ability for.
Federer can never keep himself focused. Especially after 2007. He just can't play with point to point focus. He wants to dominate and look good while doing it. That's pathetic when you see Djokodal's Gladiatorial instincts. Against lesser players Federer's lack of fighting spirit does not express itself but against Djokodal when inferiority complex gets involved he comes out looking weaker.

In every match of past, even the RG ones against Nadal that I watched I always find him mentally lacking. Each of 2005-07 and 11 could have gone 5 but didn't.
There was no way Federer should have lost AO 2009 F , but he did.


Federer's game may or may not be superior but he is mentally a midget compared to Djokodal which reflects properly in his h2h against both.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Morally pleasing too. But Nadal did his job of exposing Federer's tennis as less otherworldly than we'd have liked to believe. I state emphatically that he didn't give his godgiven ability its due. His skill has always been stronger than his mind.
You make it sound like Fed should have 35 slams ;)
 
Federer can never keep himself focused. Especially after 2007. He just can't play with point to point focus. He wants to dominate and look good while doing it. That's pathetic when you see Djokodal's Gladiatorial instincts. Against lesser players Federer's lack of fighting spirit does not express itself but against Djokodal when inferiority complex gets involved he comes out looking weaker.

In every match of past, even the RG ones against Nadal that I watched I always find him mentally lacking. Each of 2005-07 and 11 could have gone 5 but didn't.
There was no way Federer should have lost AO 2009 F , but he did.


Federer's game may or may not be superior but he is mentally a midget compared to Djokodal which reflects properly in his h2h against both.
"gladiatorial instincts" lol. yeah 2011-14 USO among other things really showed us. Nadal whimpers when he does face someone better than himself at the moment both game-wise and clutch-wise. Djokovic has been astonishingly up and down career-wise, going through patches of losing the plot. PETE is the only great player who's never suffered mental breakdowns in a big match. Yet Fedr's mind wanders some more than theirs still, sadly enough.

Go vanish with that last ridiculosity lol. If Djokodal actually had better games than Federer he'd hardly ever beat them considering mental hang-ups, see his H2H against Claydal who *is* better, 2-13 ha. Fred having the better game keeps him close.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Federer can never keep himself focused. Especially after 2007. He just can't play with point to point focus. He wants to dominate and look good while doing it. That's pathetic when you see Djokodal's Gladiatorial instincts. Against lesser players Federer's lack of fighting spirit does not express itself but against Djokodal when inferiority complex gets involved he comes out looking weaker.

In every match of past, even the RG ones against Nadal that I watched I always find him mentally lacking. Each of 2005-07 and 11 could have gone 5 but didn't.
There was no way Federer should have lost AO 2009 F , but he did.


Federer's game may or may not be superior but he is mentally a midget compared to Djokodal which reflects properly in his h2h against both.
lol, is that why djoko lost to stan 3x, querrey, nishikori in his prime ?
why he went 1-5 in slam finals from RG 12 to RG 14 ?
nadal and djoko are better mentally than fed, but to say he's a mental midget in comparision to them just shows the lack of your tennis knowledge.
 

ForehandCross

Hall of Fame
nadal and djoko are better mentally than fed, but to say he's a mental midget in comparision to them just shows the lack of your tennis knowledge.
He is a mental midget in the matches against them.

Oh how many matches I can list !

2005-07 ,11 all had 5 setter written all over them ,who lost meekly in 4?

Who lost 2009 AO? Who lost 2010-11USO ?

2012 AO where he folded like a cheap tent.

2014 WB, where after the stellar comeback he bottled it,

2015 WB F where he couldn't play half as well as the semi or 2015 USO F where he bottled all those B.ps?

Why is it always Nadalovic coming on top in pressure situations?

And this is when I have only picked matches off of the top of my head

Apart from 2007 WB,2017 AO,RG 2011 which match he even came in with. Mentality to fight to the end?
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
He is a mental midget in the matches against them.

Oh how many matches I can list !

2005-07 ,11 all had 5 setter written all over them ,who lost meekly in 4?

Who lost 2009 AO? Who lost 2010-11USO ?

2012 AO where he folded like a cheap tent.

2014 WB, where after the stellar comeback he bottled it,

2015 WB F where he couldn't play half as well as the semi or 2015 USO F where he bottled all those B.ps?

Why is it always Nadalovic coming on top in pressure situations?

And this is when I have only picked matches off of the top of my head

Apart from 2007 WB,2017 AO,RG 2011 which match he even came in with. Mentality to fight to the end?
2007 RG - nadal was just too good in the 3rd and 4th sets.
2010 USO was more djokovic saving them than fed bottling it. In any case, fed was quite error prone in that match.

2012 AO was fed getting ourgrinded on that slow as molasses surface. nadal having the luck with that lob late in the 4th set helped him. not choking per se.


@ bold part : Miami 2005 final, USO 2008 semi, Madrid 09 final, Canada 10 semi vs djoko, Wim 12 semi, Shanghai 14 semi to name a few.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
2007 RG - nadal was just too good in the 3rd and 4th sets.
2010 USO was more djokovic saving them than fed bottling it. In any case, fed was quite error prone in that match.

2012 AO was fed getting ourgrinded on that slow as molasses surface. nadal having the luck with that lob late in the 4th set helped him. not choking per se.


@ bold part : Miami 2005 final, USO 2008 semi, Madrid 09 final, Canada 10 semi vs djoko, Wim 12 semi, Shanghai 14 semi to name a few.
It was definitely slow lol. It was a good win though bc Fed was on a winning streak, and I remember him saying before the match he felt he knew what to do against Rafa and was super confident.
 

ForehandCross

Hall of Fame
It was definitely slow lol. It was a good win though bc Fed was on a winning streak, and I remember him saying before the match he felt he knew what to do against Rafa and was super confident.
All that confidence went poof when he realised he was up 1-0 and that wasn't supposed to happen against his Slam master. So he pissed his pants once Nadal started to adjust.

So immediately he coughed up a break and after that pause in play(What was it for,I don't properly remember) he abandoned all semblance of strategies that were working earlier .


(MTF mode off)
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
It was definitely slow lol. It was a good win though bc Fed was on a winning streak, and I remember him saying before the match he felt he knew what to do against Rafa and was super confident.
yeah, definitely a good win for Nadal.
yeah, fed was on a streak (mainly) indoors in 2011+first 5 matches at the AO.
Davis cup, basel, paris, YEC and then AO 2012 first 5 matches.
 

Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
yeah, definitely a good win for Nadal.
yeah, fed was on a streak (mainly) indoors in 2011+first 5 matches at the AO.
Davis cup, basel, paris, YEC and then AO 2012 first 5 matches.
He played Doha too but had a walkover against Tsonga.
 

ForehandRF

Hall of Fame
Yeah but there was a line call that, if called correctly, would have given him 3 BPs in the third set. I believe he'd have a great chance at nabbing one of those.
Nadal also had numerous BP to comeback at the end of the 5set of the 2017 AO F and still he didn't managed to convert and that against a Fed with mental scars, unlike 2005 Fed who still played freely at the time.
 

Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
Nadal also had numerous BP to comeback at the end of the 5set of the 2017 AO F and still he didn't managed to convert and that against a Fed with mental scars, unlike 2005 Fed who still played freely at the time.
That's just one example. What about the other matches where Nadal took his BPs? Namely some of the matches that constitute his lead over Fed.
 

ForehandRF

Hall of Fame
That's just one example. What about the other matches where Nadal took his BPs? Namely some of the matches that constitute his lead over Fed.
Yeah but given that, there is no guarantee that Rafa would have broken, hence there is not should have won, but could have won.
 
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