Critique my ground game

#1
I'm getting back into tennis after a few years out and have my first tournament in a decade in 2 weeks. Here's me hitting with a 6.5 NRTP player, I don't have a rating of any sort as I haven't played in ages. Any and all feedback welcome!

 
C

Chadillac

Guest
#7
When you're out of position, are you hitting off your heels, and falling back?
Compensating by wristing it?
His core is producing the power, his wrist is applying. He has very compact rotations but its very there.

I'm getting back into tennis after a few years out and have my first tournament in a decade in 2 weeks. Here's me hitting with a 6.5 NRTP player, I don't have a rating of any sort as I haven't played in ages. Any and all feedback welcome!

Looks like you can get a bit more prep on some shots, reaching back and touch more coil. Like when versdasco has time, he hits that 2nd gear on prep

Bh at 26 secs was hit very well, but your back leg swung a bit and created a bit of off balance after. Happened again at 36 but you were going xcourt anyways, not so bad on that one, but if up the line it will make it curve to middle.

Great hitting though, racket makes a nice sound
 
#10
When you're out of position, are you hitting off your heels, and falling back?
Compensating by wristing it?
A little

How do you do in match play?
Not as good - I tend to tense up but this will go away with practise hopefully. I don't think I'm the only one in this boat though.

I don't see any wrist. What the hell are you talking about TTPS?
OP is freaking GOOOOOD. Love the forehand.
Thanks buddy.

The guy closest to the comera.

His core is producing the power, his wrist is applying. He has very compact rotations but its very there.


Looks like you can get a bit more prep on some shots, reaching back and touch more coil. Like when versdasco has time, he hits that 2nd gear on prep

Bh at 26 secs was hit very well, but your back leg swung a bit and created a bit of off balance after. Happened again at 36 but you were going xcourt anyways, not so bad on that one, but if up the line it will make it curve to middle.

Great hitting though, racket makes a nice sound
Thanks for the feedback buddy - some slightly earlier prep would work I think as you say. My backhand is unsurprisingly my weaker shot, maybe I should try getting down lower a bit so my back let doesn't swing out?

You move extremely well, nice footwork!
Thanks!
 
#11
One hand backhand - I look at poster's strokes and point out what I think are differences between them and high level strokes as seen in high speed videos.

The backhands of Wawrinka, Justine Henin and Gasquet have two characteristics that I believe are important for current top one hand backhand technique. They can be seen in high speed videos. It is not clear what Federer is doing on the first of these issues.

1) The chest should press the upper arm during the first part of forward arm and racket acceleration. This is a little different that just turning the upper body. When this occurs the line between the two shoulders and the upper arm move together and there is no separation of the upper arm from the chest. The shoulder muscles are relaxed or not used with enough torque to separate the upper arm from the chest. In your video from behind it is not clear what you are doing because your body blocks the chest to upper arm area. Later, before impact the shoulder muscles are used and the upper arm separates from the chest. See high speed videos for details and timing.

2) The off arm brings down the racket by rotating the near straight arm and causing internal shoulder rotation (ISR), a defined shoulder joint motion. The off arm does not simply bring the racket down, it rotates the arm at the shoulder joint as it comes down. This stretches the ESR muscles below. Compare your motion to Wawrinka's. This is done rapidly mostly(?) before the forward motion starts. Before impact the upper arm reverses rotation direction and external shoulder rotation (ESR) causes the arm and racket head to rise. This adds to top spin. See high speed videos for details and timing.


Look for

1) chest to upper arm spacing. In contact?
2) how the line between the two shoulders moves together with the upper arm at the start of forward acceleration.
3) how the off arm rotates the the hitting arm down. Look at racket angle.
4) how far the hitting hand extends behind the body before forward motion.

Compare to yours.

For details on these two features see thread. Read post #1 and post #51 to end.
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...and-waht-force-to-start-forward-swing.462997/
 
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FiReFTW

Hall of Fame
#12
One hand backhand - I look at poster's strokes and point out what I think are differences between them and high level strokes as seen in high speed videos.

The backhands of Wawrinka, Justine Henin and Gasquet have two characteristics that I believe are important for current top one hand backhand technique. They can be seen in high speed videos. It is not clear what Federer is doing on the first of these issues.

1) The chest should press the upper arm during the first part of forward arm and racket acceleration. This is a little different that just turning the upper body. When this occurs the line between the two shoulders and the upper arm move together and there is no separation of the upper arm from the chest. The shoulder muscles are relaxed or not used with enough torque to separate the upper arm from the chest. In your video from behind it is not clear what you are doing because your body blocks the chest to upper arm area. Later, before impact the shoulder muscles are used and the upper arm separates form the chest. See high speed videos for details and timing.

2) The off arm brings down the racket by rotating the near straight arm and causing internal shoulder rotation (ISR), a defined shoulder joint motion. The off arm does not simply bring the racket down, it rotates the arm at the shoulder joint as it comes down. This stretches the ESR muscles below. Compare your motion to Wawrinka's. This is done rapidly mostly(?) before the forward motion starts. Before impact the upper arm reverses rotation direction and external shoulder rotation (ESR) causes the arm and racket head to rise. This adds to top spin. See high speed videos for details and timing.

For details on these two features see thread
link
1. No
2. No
 

jga111

Hall of Fame
#14
Great hitting and it’s clear you have the technical foundation to compete at high level (mentality permitting).

Id say in one or two shots you can prep earlier - your backhand drive on 0:26 was good but IMO you took slightly late and the ball wasn’t hit in front of you enough.
 
#15
How do you train for your footwork? It doesn't look like much effort for you.
My footwork used to be pretty bad but i just started emulating players that were better than me and watching what the pros did - you need to actively concentrate on it and it will come eventually. I've never had any formal coaching with it. Staying low forces you to move your feet more purposely.. that's probably the best tip I can give.

Great hitting and it’s clear you have the technical foundation to compete at high level (mentality permitting).

Id say in one or two shots you can prep earlier - your backhand drive on 0:26 was good but IMO you took slightly late and the ball wasn’t hit in front of you enough.
Yeah, I've noticed this looking at the video, I'll try to prep a tiny bit earlier on both sides. i appreciate the kind comments btw.
 
#16
I'm getting back into tennis after a few years out and have my first tournament in a decade in 2 weeks. Here's me hitting with a 6.5 NRTP player, I don't have a rating of any sort as I haven't played in ages. Any and all feedback welcome!

You look just fine to me. On some balls you wait a little too long, and they drop lower than is ideal. You want to hit balls on the rise whenever possible.
 
#18
OP, looks like your timing and contact point are off. To get back into the groove, really work on hitting the ball in your ideal contact point (distance in front of the body) starting with some slower shots. Then, up the pace you are hitting against. Looks like you are late and having to swing fast to get the racket to the point where you contact the ball. Probably just a symptom of not having hit very much in a while.
 

Curious

Hall of Fame
#19
OP, looks like your timing and contact point are off. To get back into the groove, really work on hitting the ball in your ideal contact point (distance in front of the body) starting with some slower shots. Then, up the pace you are hitting against. Looks like you are late and having to swing fast to get the racket to the point where you contact the ball. Probably just a symptom of not having hit very much in a while.
You might have a point. Strokes look rushed with quick, jerky forward swings. They are still quite effective though.
 
#21
Apparent stroke speed? -

In England, the electrical power frequency is 50 Hz. The video cameras sold in Europe usually record at 25 fps to avoid light flicker (100 Hz light output from positive & negative voltage peaks).

If the camera recorded at 25 Hz could it be that the playback at 30 fps is speeding up the stroke playback? Processing?

To check the Youtube video - total playback time is 43 seconds.

What was the total recording time? Or the playback time in Europe?
 
#22
OP, looks like your timing and contact point are off. To get back into the groove, really work on hitting the ball in your ideal contact point (distance in front of the body) starting with some slower shots. Then, up the pace you are hitting against. Looks like you are late and having to swing fast to get the racket to the point where you contact the ball. Probably just a symptom of not having hit very much in a while.
You might have a point. Strokes look rushed with quick, jerky forward swings. They are still quite effective though.
The point is that he is hitting a few balls late and rushing the swing.
Thanks - this is the consistent feedback I was looking for, I'll work on earlier prep as I definitely looks like I'm rushing the end of the stroke as a lot of you have said... this would also explain why I'm occasionally spraying balls wide on both sides.

Apparent stroke speed? -

In England, the electrical power frequency is 50 Hz. The video cameras sold in Europe usually record at 25 fps to avoid light flicker (100 Hz light output from positive & negative voltage peaks).

If the camera recorded at 25 Hz could it be that the playback at 30 fps is speeding up the stroke playback? Processing?

To check the Youtube video - total playback time is 43 seconds.

What was the total recording time? Or the playback time in Europe?
Sorry, what? Recorded using an iphone X in 4K 30fps if that means anything.
 
#23
......................
Sorry, what? Recorded using an iphone X in 4K 30fps if that means anything.
I don't know much about Youtube video processing for storage or playback. Right clicking on OP video at full screen and the "stats for nerds" shows resolution of "1280x720@30 fps" for my Youtube playback. Is the 4K stored by Youtube?

But if 30 fps recording and 30 fps playback the playback should be in real time, no problem.

The iPhone X video camera has high speed video recording at 60, 120 and 240 fps. 240 fps in bright sunlight is excellent for stroke analysis. Video a few backhands from the side to see hand and racket positions. Also take a camera angle that shows the chest and upper arm area - as shown in some of the Wawrinka backhands in post #11 - and you would have a very good high speed video comparison.

Here is a detailed comparison -

Once your backhand is pretty good, as your is, the next step is comparing it to a high level backhand of your choice and identifying the finer differences. Kinovea is ideal for this purpose as it offers side by side video comparisons and the time scales can be made the same (time scale synchronization here in Version 8.25). If the camera views are the same the comparison can be very thorough for seeing the differences. Kinovea is free open source. High speed video contains a great deal of information that mostly goes unnoticed.

Quoted from another thread -

"This post from another thread shows a comparison and analysis of poster Mojo28's one hand backhand drive and Gasquet's from the start of the forward racket motion. Note the chest and upper arm of the high level backhand.

[ Note for new readers - It is necessary for this analysis to understand the defined joint motions of internal shoulder rotation (ISR) and external shoulder rotation (ESR). The upper arm between the shoulder joint and elbow does not go anywhere, it just spins like a top around the upper arm's center line.]

Pictures of each frame of Mojo's video. The time scales are in milliseconds with "0" milliseconds being impact. -267 milliseconds is about 1/4 second before impact.

I point out differences between better high level strokes and the poster's strokes. A poster can select a high level stroke and copy it or use some other stroke model. Or, go with instruction or on their own without a model or instruction.

Mojo's ball is lower than Gasquet's. Compare similar ball heights for better analysis.

Frame at -267 ms. It looks as if at 267 milliseconds before impact the OP has turned his shoulders back to about the same angle as Gasquet has. Compare also shoulder turn angles at impact, at Frame -0 ms. The positions of the arms and rackets are different. Gasquet's racket has not come down and is still in front of his body. Is Mojo copying some other backhand stroke? Mojo has also done pronation to bring the racket down. Impression is that Mojo is doing his own thing. ? (To see angles more accurately, the cameras for both backhands need to view the players and courts from the same angle. Wear tight fitting clothes or a short sleeve shirt to better see the upper arm, elbow angle, etc.)


Frame at -233 ms. Mojo has brought his racket farther down. Gasquet's racket has gone up slightly. Mojo's elbow looks bent more and his upper arm (between the shoulder and elbow) has more downward rotation (ISR). Compare ISR angle to ISR angle as these frames progress.


Frame at -200 ms. Mojo's racket is still lowering and low. Gasquet's is just starting to lower.


Frame at -167 ms. Mojo's upper arm is down from the shoulder joint. Gasquet's upper arm is more across the chest.


Frame at -133 ms. Mojo's racket still lowering. Gasquet's now lowering with more rapid drop.


Frame at -100 ms. Mojo's upper arm is down at the chest. Gasquet's upper arm is more across the chest. Gasquet now appears to have started more upper body turn. I believe that to produce this early arm and racket acceleration that Gasquet is pressing hard on his upper arm with his chest powered by the forces of turning his upper body. If a credit card were between his chest and upper arm, would it be pressed tightly? How much upper arm pressing Mojo is doing this is not clear (due to the obscuring shirt and arm angle). But his upper body does not appear to be turning as rapidly.


Frame at -67 ms. The racket head speed developed by any rotation depends on the location of the axis of rotation and the distance out from that rotation axis. Look at the arm and racket angle and the distance out from the location of the rotation axis (guessed for now). It looks as if Mojo's arm angle is not favorable for racket head speed. Also, Mojo's racket is already much more rotated toward the ball trajectory. Gasquet's racket is >180° back from the ball's trajectory. Gasquet's upper arm is pressed to his chest as discussed.


Frame at -33 ms. Look at the racket to ball trajectory angle for Mojo, 45°? Look at the racket to trajectory angle for Gasquet still >180°. The total turns of Mojo's and Gasquet's upper bodies from Frame -267 ms seem somewhat similar, similar average speeds. The upper arm and racket have been used differently. Another motion - now look at the elbow bones and estimate the angular position of internal shoulder rotation, or axial rotation of the upper arm in the shoulder joint. Compare ESR from -33 ms to -0 ms.


Frame at -0 ms closest to impact. The big differences from Frame -33 ms to Frame -0 ms are the angular movement of Gasquet's racket and the much larger movement of his hand in the forward direction in comparison to Mojo. Also, Mojo's racket is open and Gasquet's is closed at impact. Possibly the ball height was a factor in how closed the racket was.? Now look at Gasquet's elbow bones and compare them to Frame -33 ms. Gasquet has done rapid external shoulder rotation (ESR) from Frame -33 ms to Frame -0 ms. That has moved the racket up and added to the topspin that the upward hand path already would have produce without ESR. Because Gasquet brought down his racket earlier with a near straight arm, it caused rapid ISR and pre-stretched his ESR muscles, he is using those stretched muscles in this frame. (Search the Stretch Shorten Cycle).


Frame at +33ms after impact. Mojo's hand and racket go more forward. Gasquet's goes more forward and up. ESR has continued.


Frame at +67 ms. Comparison of the follow throughs.


Video.

Last edited: Mar 5, 2017"
Place the camera so it won't get knocked over.
 
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#25
In 2 weeks, you shouldn't really drastically try to do change much. Plus 3 mins video is very difficult to get a sense of your overall game.
As other have said, your contact point on the forehand is late. The shots I saw in the video shows because of your contact point, the shots are limited in angle. I'd work on moving the hitting point 5-7" forward, so it's in front of your body, like your last forehand in the video.
Your backhand also suffers from a slightly late contact point, and the follow through from your upper torso is across your body instead of forward first, which results in lack of depth.
You're also trying too hard to get pace on the ball without the groove on your stroke, while hitting late, so your depth control is a little inconsistent. Work on your timing, follow through and contact points in the first week, then increase the power in the 2nd week once you groove the strokes a bit, which will help with your depth. If he is your hitting coach, ask him to dial it back 2 notches, then turn it up as you hit better. He's probably seeing you trying to drive the ball hard so he thinks he should up the pace, so you escalate and throw your timing off.
 
#26
In 2 weeks, you shouldn't really drastically try to do change much. Plus 3 mins video is very difficult to get a sense of your overall game.
As other have said, your contact point on the forehand is late. The shots I saw in the video shows because of your contact point, the shots are limited in angle. I'd work on moving the hitting point 5-7" forward, so it's in front of your body, like your last forehand in the video.
Your backhand also suffers from a slightly late contact point, and the follow through from your upper torso is across your body instead of forward first, which results in lack of depth.
You're also trying too hard to get pace on the ball without the groove on your stroke, while hitting late, so your depth control is a little inconsistent. Work on your timing, follow through and contact points in the first week, then increase the power in the 2nd week once you groove the strokes a bit, which will help with your depth. If he is your hitting coach, ask him to dial it back 2 notches, then turn it up as you hit better. He's probably seeing you trying to drive the ball hard so he thinks he should up the pace, so you escalate and throw your timing off.
Are there any hacks to consistently hitting the ball in front of you? I've never had any conventional coaching so would mind a bit of guidance here to help me along.
 
#27
Are there any hacks to consistently hitting the ball in front of you? I've never had any conventional coaching so would mind a bit of guidance here to help me along.
No real hack. It's about adjusting your stroke to meet the ball in front of your body. You did hit the ball more in front in the last 2 shots as I said, so it's not foreign to you. Everyone hits late when the ball is coming too fast. Your strokes are compact enough so it's about your stroke, opponent's shots and your own aggression.
With your backhand, as someone else has said, you are rotating from your trunk up and following through sideways from few shots you hit, which doesn't allow your hips to rotate through. I'm not sure but I think your wrist is also slight cocked and locked up, so it seems you're leading with your hand.
Sorry with 43 seconds of video, not sure what you can expect a bunch of internet players to help you with realistically. You may just want to find a coach who can help you, or at least a hitting partner who can give critique. That person would be the only one who can see your stroke and the results. Your game so far seems to be built around your athleticism.
 
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