critique my strokes please (video)

On your forehand, put your left hand out, pointing towards the ball as it is coming in, that will help with more consistent timing. Also, the rotation of your shoulders is happening too late, resulting of too much arming of the ball and not enough natural rotation of the shoulders going into the ball. Putting your left arm out and hitting the ball more in front will help this. You want to start the rotation of your shoulders before hitting the ball, almost as if the shoulders are dragging the racquet along for the right. Also, loosening up a bit would probably be a good idea.

On the backhand side, it seems you are pulling away from the shot and trying to get ready for the next one too soon. What I mean is your head is popping up too early, resulting in the rest of your body pulling up from the shot as you are going through the hitting zone. You can see you are not balanced and your left leg swing to the left as you are hitting it. Keeping your head still through the hitting zone will help with better balance. You do have a nice motion on your backhand, you have nice extension to the ball and the shot looks nice and fluid.
 
You have a certain stiffness and movement that makes you look sort of new to the sport or at least these strokes, but
You pound that ball very aggressively for a new guy and your strokes are really
shaping up pretty well.
4.0 if you compete well and 3.5 if you don't is my guess from that little bit, but
with a really big upside for fast improvement from what I see.

How long have you been playing?
 
Your forehand: you pull your elbow behind your back when preparing. That's out of the optimal range of motion for your arm. keep the arm a little farther out and in front and right and try to generate torque with your hip and leg snap. When hitting try not to let your elbow go behind your back. never.
 
Gee, that's ugly looking.
There are a lot of things that are wrong, some of which have been pointed out by posters above. However, the main thing you have to do, is relax and let your strokes flow. In the first video, you are jumping and twisting and grunting and straining. Yet look at the ball speed as the ball goes back and forth between you and the guy you are hitting with. Your balls aren't going much faster than his, if at all. He is putting no effort into hitting. Of course he is a better player, but try more to emulate him and the ball will go faster with more spin with about 1/10th the effort. A lot of the fundamentals are there. Many of the little things that are wrong will smooth themselves out with a little relaxation and enough practice to gain some timing.
 
I just looked at your warmup video as well and wanted to add one thing you should start working on. Split stepping. So to go back, initial shoulder turn into the ball instead of arming it so much, left arm out on forehand, keeping your head still and staying committed through the hitting zone on the backhand, loosening up a little bit and the split step are the only things I see that you should work on. Overall a nice game though, strokes for the most part look nice and definitely a good base for easy improvement.
 
Rozroz said:
please tell me everything you can, what i most need to improve..
and anything you can make of my rating?

thanks :)
Click to expand...

On your forehand you should stay side on more. Your opening up your shoulders too early as you make contact with the ball. By staying side on longer it will stop you from hitting forehands long. Also keep your left hand pointing at the ball as long as you can and try not to jerk it back as you hit the ball. It might add additional power but you will lose control. Overall you hit the ball pretty well :)
 
wow, very happy for the quick responses, thanks.
i'm 38 and started around 7 years ago. but started 'serious' lessons only 1/2 a year now. wasted much of the time learning by myself (which is not learning a lot :( )

first of all- i'll say what I really don't like about my strokes:

yes, i feel i put 100% energy on the strokes and yet as said above, i don't feel my efforts are rewarded with enough power and speed. this goes mainly for the forehand.

second thing is that DREADFUL left arm movement. i just HAVE to fix it somehow. it looks really ugly and not productive. i really HATE the final posture behind the back. how do i fix it?

SO, in order to fix those 2 things and all other things you pointed, i'll try to summon up all your pointers:

1. RELAX and loosen up - this was said a few times, so i guess it's really important. i'll try to do it literally. not being STIFF.
any more tips to work on that and making it natural?

2. make full use of my left arm, pointing at the ball and helping with fixing the rotation for contact point. i wonder what i should to to fix the ugly final posture of the arm, and to finalize it in the 'professional way' ?

3. work on rotation of the shoulders so it will time up correctly, followed by the arm. earlier shoulder rotation, and hitting the ball more in front. but jayoub95 sais that i rotate the shoulders too early..? different observations?

4. not to pull my elbow behind my back. still trying to understand that one more clearly.

5. Split stepping - i'm afraid i need some more info and example on that one please..

6. working on being more balanced and well committed throughout the whole stroke to the end. being aware of my head and left foot.
 
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many things wrong but one thing that is pretty good is the movement of your right arm which is why the ball is being hit well on your fh. you could be really good if you commit to improving.

I'm going to say 3.5.
4.0 sounds high because he's doing too many things wrong which would be exposed in a match. For example I'm pretty sure his serve isn't good and he probably can't handle pace or variety of spins etc. with those mechanics and footwork. and most of the backhands were out.

You need to stay more balanced / stationary on your fh. use your left arm and dont let it flail behind your back.
try to relax more. looks a bit stiff.
stroke the ball. not slap it.
concentrate on getting good stroke mechanics before you go all out or you will have to spend a lot of time breaking those habits.

it seems like you have a lot of potential.

how long have you been playing?
 
Cheetah said:
many things wrong but one thing that is pretty good is the movement of your right arm which is why the ball is being hit well on your fh. you could be really good if you commit to improving.

I'm going to say 3.5.
4.0 sounds high because he's doing too many things wrong which would be exposed in a match. For example I'm pretty sure his serve isn't good and he probably can't handle pace or variety of spins etc. with those mechanics and footwork. and most of the backhands were out.

You need to stay more balanced / stationary on your fh. use your left arm and dont let it flail behind your back.
try to relax more. looks a bit stiff.
stroke the ball. not slap it.
concentrate on getting good stroke mechanics before you go all out or you will have to spend a lot of time breaking those habits.

it seems like you have a lot of potential.

how long have you been playing?
Click to expand...

look at my post above yours.
 
Cheetah said:
You need to stay more balanced / stationary on your fh. use your left arm and dont let it flail behind your back.
try to relax more. looks a bit stiff.
stroke the ball. not slap it.
Click to expand...

Agreed 100%.
 
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Rozroz said:
wow, very happy for the quick responses, thanks.
i'm 38 and started around 7 years ago. but started 'serious' lessons only 1/2 a year now. wasted much of the time learning by myself (which is not learning a lot :( )

first of all- i'll say what I really don't like about my strokes:

yes, i feel i put 100% energy on the strokes and yet as said above, i don't feel my efforts are rewarded with enough power and speed. this goes mainly for the forehand.

second thing is that DREADFUL left arm movement. i just HAVE to fix it somehow. it looks really ugly and not productive. i really HATE the final posture behind the back. how do i fix it?

SO, in order to fix those 2 things and all other things you pointed, i'll try to summon up all your pointers:

1. RELAX and loosen up - this was said a few times, so i guess it's really important. i'll try to do it literally. not being STIFF.
any more tips to work on that and making it natural?

2. make full use of my left arm, pointing at the ball and helping with fixing the rotation for contact point. i wonder what i should to to fix the ugly final posture of the arm, and to finalize it in the 'professional way' ?

3. work on rotation of the shoulders so it will time up correctly, followed by the arm. earlier shoulder rotation, and hitting the ball more in front. but jayoub95 sais that i rotate the shoulders too early..? different observations?

4. not to pull my elbow behind my back. still trying to understand that one more clearly.

5. Split stepping - i'm afraid i need some more info and example on that one please..

6. working on being more balanced and well committed throughout the whole stroke to the end. being aware of my head and left foot.
Click to expand...
On the forehand, when moving to the right, your alignment is way off. Can you see how you have to use the left leg to get closer to the line of the ball? Even with this, you still have to lunge at it. Don't know what your though process is, but this sort of move is common, when a player tries to "step in" when moving hard to the right. And it leads to a whole host of problems, many of which have been pointed out above.

As you track the ball towards the sideline, establish your alignment to the ball with your right foot.(open) This will allow you to redirect momentum better, (lateral to upward) improve balance, and recovery loops.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
don't try so hard? Get balanced first then hit the ball. No need to be all flying off the ground and the ball barely goes fast. You are falling all over the place.
 
I just want to say one thing to the OP. You are going to get so many responses on this board when you post any kind of video, so I don't want you to feel overwhelmed with the responses and all the things people are telling you that you need to do. You have nice strokes, some of the issues that were brought up are not big issues at all, just very simple modifications/adjustments. Just take one thing at a time, work on it, get use to it, and you will see nice results.

I just don't want you to think because you are getting so much advice that there is something really wrong with your strokes, because there is not. You have nice looking strokes.
 
jayoub95 said:
On your forehand you should stay side on more. Your opening up your shoulders too early as you make contact with the ball. By staying side on longer it will stop you from hitting forehands long. Also keep your left hand pointing at the ball as long as you can and try not to jerk it back as you hit the ball. It might add additional power but you will lose control. Overall you hit the ball pretty well :)
Click to expand...

Quite the opposite actually. You are not turning your shoulders soon enough, resulting in grabbing too much of the ball through the initial rotation and not getting the racquet through the ball fluidly enough.
 
jayoub95 said:
Agreed 100%.
Click to expand...

As far as being more balanced on the forehand, getting you left arm out to the ball and making contact more in front, which will result in more initial shoulder turn and less arming/muscling of the ball should help with the balance. Right now your contact point is too close to you and no enough in front, resulting in muscling the ball through the point of contact. With a contact point more in front it will allow you to do more work with your natural body rotation and less with your arm, resulting in less stress/jerking of the body, resulting in more balance and ease. Also, as I stated with the backhand, keeping your head still through the hitting point will help also.
 
tennis_pr0 said:
As far as being more balanced on the forehand, getting you left arm out to the ball and making contact more in front, which will result in more initial shoulder turn and less arming/muscling of the ball should help with the balance. Right now your contact point is too close to you and no enough in front, resulting in muscling the ball through the point of contact. With a contact point more in front it will allow you to do more work with your natural body rotation and less with your arm, resulting in less stress/jerking of the body, resulting in more balance and ease. Also, as I stated with the backhand, keeping your head still through the hitting point will help also.
Click to expand...
Much of this, is a result of poor right foot alignment to the ball. It is most evident when the OP moves to the right.
 
Nice strokes. Agree with others, use the off hand to balance and after bringing it across to setup for the FH, make it go down as you hit through. It will make you appear less stiff.
btw, I liked how the other guy was so calm, just standing there and hitting back everything you threw at him.
 
chico9166 said:
Much of this, is a result of poor right foot alignment to the ball. It is most evident when the OP moves to the right.
Click to expand...

I do not see this. I see the OP is hitting with a closed stance for the most part, but as far as "right foot alignment", I am not seeing an issue....
 
tennis_pr0 said:
I do not see this. I see the OP is hitting with a closed stance for the most part, but as far as "right foot alignment", I am not seeing an issue....
Click to expand...
Why would a player want to hit an outside shot with a closed stance if they didn't have to ? And what would be the disadvantages to doing so?
 
sportsfan1 said:
Nice strokes. Agree with others, use the off hand to balance and after bringing it across to setup for the FH, make it go down as you hit through. It will make you appear less stiff.
btw, I liked how the other guy was so calm, just standing there and hitting back everything you threw at him.
Click to expand...

err... you probably didn't read the part that it was a tennis lesson with a coach.
there are no partners with THAT much patience.. ;)
 
ok, so if i generally have decent technique, and need to upgrade it peacefully with ease, what do you recommend me to do first?
step 1?
 
chico9166 said:
Why would a player want to hit an outside shot with a closed stance if they didn't have to ? And what would be the disadvantages to doing so?
Click to expand...

Well I agree that hitting an outside shot with an open stance is better, as it gives more options and recovery time is quicker. However, there is nothing "wrong" with hitting with a closed stance, i mean he is not doing anything incorrect by doing this especially with his right foot, so pointing out the right foot as an issue is wrong. I would suggest to the OP however that he get more accustomed to hitting open, especially on the out wide shots.
 
tennis_pr0 said:
Well I agree that hitting an outside shot with an open stance is better, as it gives more options and recovery time is quicker. However, there is nothing "wrong" with hitting with a closed stance, i mean he is not doing anything incorrect by doing this especially with his right foot, so pointing out the right foot as an issue is wrong. I would suggest to the OP however that he get more accustomed to hitting open, especially on the out wide shots.[/quote

No, there is a lot wrong with hitting from a closed stance in this situation. In fact for the reasons that you and others have pointed out, such as, lack of rotation, poor balance, inability to redirect momentum, and poor recovery loop.

Btw, right foot alignment determines closed vs open stance permutation.
Click to expand...
 
To the OP, one reason I don't post a lot on here with threads like this is because i don't like to see the OP get overwhelmed with replies on what to do and not to do.

What I would work on right now is hitting with an open stance on out wide balls. You have less time to set up on these balls and less time to recover. The advantage of hitting with an open stance is it requires fewer steps to the ball, gives yoiu balance on out wide shots and helps with recovery time. For the forehand, work on planting your right leg out wide of your body, getting your weight and balance primarily on that leg, and hitting your forehand, and the opposite for the backhand. I am sure you can find information and videos on the open stance on the web.

Next, keeping your head still throughout the entire hit will help with commitment and balance.

Getting your left arm out on the forehand will help with hitting the ball sooner, which will give you more shoulder rotation into the ball and less arming/muscling of the ball. I think this is a big on for you. Again, the shoulders rotate into the ball, almost as if the shoulder rotation happens right and the hit comes second, in a sense. Your power and fluidity comes from good timing and good, natural rotation into the ball.

I would work on these things. Other than the things I just pointed out, I don't see any major flaw, and working on these things will definitely improve the flaws that are standing out in your game right now.
 
tennis_pr0 said:
I just want to say one thing to the OP. You are going to get so many responses on this board when you post any kind of video, so I don't want you to feel overwhelmed with the responses and all the things people are telling you that you need to do. You have nice strokes, some of the issues that were brought up are not big issues at all, just very simple modifications/adjustments. Just take one thing at a time, work on it, get use to it, and you will see nice results.

I just don't want you to think because you are getting so much advice that there is something really wrong with your strokes, because there is not. You have nice looking strokes.
Click to expand...


YOU are doing exactly what you told him not to worry about, does that make sense to you?
 
tennis_pr0 said:
To the OP, one reason I don't post a lot on here with threads like this is because i don't like to see the OP get overwhelmed with replies on what to do and not to do.

What I would work on right now is hitting with an open stance on out wide balls. You have less time to set up on these balls and less time to recover. The advantage of hitting with an open stance is it requires fewer steps to the ball, gives yoiu balance on out wide shots and helps with recovery time. For the forehand, work on planting your right leg out wide of your body, getting your weight and balance primarily on that leg, and hitting your forehand, and the opposite for the backhand. I am sure you can find information and videos on the open stance on the web.

Next, keeping your head still throughout the entire hit will help with commitment and balance.

Getting your left arm out on the forehand will help with hitting the ball sooner, which will give you more shoulder rotation into the ball and less arming/muscling of the ball. I think this is a big on for you. Again, the shoulders rotate into the ball, almost as if the shoulder rotation happens right and the hit comes second, in a sense. Your power and fluidity comes from good timing and good, natural rotation into the ball.

I would work on these things. Other than the things I just pointed out, I don't see any major flaw, and working on these things will definitely improve the flaws that are standing out in your game right now.
Click to expand...

thanks. those 2 things seem logical to achieve.. and of course, less stiffness.
i don't really know how to do it all more relaxed, cause the stiffness is somewhat 'helps' me with getting ready etc.. how to get rid of it? and also- how do i produce more power with less strain?? i hit as hard as i can hard and get decent/low power.
 
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ATP100 said:
YOU are doing exactly what you told him not to worry about, does that make sense to you?
Click to expand...

i guess he just tried to tell me to take it easy and concentrate on the 2 major issues first.. it's not like there's 20 things wrong..
 
Sure it is good to get your money's worth, hit a lot of balls with the coach, but you seem a little rushed, so maybe increase the interval between feeds.

Don't want to ingrain bad habits, not sure about the foot flipping up on the backhand for instance. If you want to stop it, stop it now before it is a habit you can't lose.

Maybe get some mirroring going on there, some similarity between FH and BH, so it is not all completely different.
 
Relax, you can hit good.
Left arm, keep it like a turret. Bent elbows, one unit, both arms, like the pros on video.
I wouln't recommend pointing at the incoming ball, instead, keep the left elbow up and make it guide the shoulders around.
 
First thing you have to start doing is to be loose. You can't execute a proper stroke while being tight. as loose as possible. like spaghetti loose. i should be able to pull the racket out of your hand while you swing because the grip is so loose.

once you are loose and relaxed your body will move more correctly and the power will still be there and in fact will increase. the looser you are the harder you can hit and the less tired you will be.

Next is to use that left arm.
contact point should be more in front of your body.

those 3 things will take care of like the first 15 issues u have. for sure.
 
Simply out, I don't want you to get overwhelmed by the responses, I just think you should take on key point at a time and work on it. There are not a lot of things wrong, and the things that are lacking, you will work on them and improve. I outlined the three or four things that I think you need to work on, so i would take one of those things at a time and work on them, from there, I think you will see results.
 
LeeD said:
Relax, you can hit good.
Left arm, keep it like a turret. Bent elbows, one unit, both arms, like the pros on video.
I wouln't recommend pointing at the incoming ball, instead, keep the left elbow up and make it guide the shoulders around.
Click to expand...

Lee you are saying elbow more bent on the take back of the forehand, correct?
 
boramiNYC said:
Your forehand: you pull your elbow behind your back when preparing. That's out of the optimal range of motion for your arm. keep the arm a little farther out and in front and right and try to generate torque with your hip and leg snap. When hitting try not to let your elbow go behind your back. never.
Click to expand...

thanks LeeD, tennis pro and cheetah. i'll start with those pointers.
but could you just explain the quote above? it seems to contradict the elbow thing. also, it looks like Djokovic is doing it in some way, no?
 
Think turret.
Don't worry about hitting your left arm with your racket.
Bend elbow at takeback, yes, and either stay the same or extended during the forward swing.
 
Rozroz said:
thanks LeeD, tennis pro and cheetah. i'll start with those pointers.
but could you just explain the quote above? it seems to contradict the elbow thing. also, it looks like Djokovic is doing it in some way, no?
Click to expand...

keep the racket on the right side of your body. dont let it go behind your back. like djoko does.
 
LeeD said:
Think turret.
Don't worry about hitting your left arm with your racket.
Bend elbow at takeback, yes, and either stay the same or extended during the forward swing.
Click to expand...

can you please link to a picture of this posture? visual help is best with me :)
 
LeeD said:
Search utube for Federer, Nadal, hitting.
Click to expand...

i've done that a million times :)
i like to see some step by step pictures maybe..?

* that's why i wish i had a ball machine. it's perfect for those improvements.
all my partners are so inconsistent that i can hardly concentrate on improving my motions.
and the tennis lesson is once every couple of weeks. tooooo expensive.
 
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Can't you see you're tense and jumping all over the place, trying waaaay to hard to impress us, and expending energy at a rate that might allow you to last 3 games into a tight match.
Your form is not bad. You can hit. But you're wasting waaay too much energy for the short amount of time you're hitting.
Everyone said this, you should be able to see it.
 
LeeD said:
Can't you see you're tense and jumping all over the place, trying waaaay to hard to impress us, and expending energy at a rate that might allow you to last 3 games into a tight match.
Your form is not bad. You can hit. But you're wasting waaay too much energy for the short amount of time you're hitting.
Everyone said this, you should be able to see it.
Click to expand...

i play like this every time i'm afraid. impressing you guys wasn't in my mind.
and i didn't say i don't see it. what's with you??

i just said i find it hard to 'noodle-flow', and i asked for pictures for the hands positions, but i watched some more videos instead.

don't get this reply :confused:
 
Rozroz said:
sounds promising! you just boost my confidence up :P
Click to expand...

Don't sweat comments like those. There are not really 20 things wrong, but
more like 3-4 things that need improving which will clear up about 20 symptoms
that arise from the 3-4 things.

I would not even worry about the stiffness, as most of that will come with more practice and reps.
Most Everyone is sort of stiff in the learning phase. If it persist on down the road, address it lightly,
because you can be stiff and good.
It may just be your style. Everyone is not as smooth as Fed.

Keep grooving the strokes, as what I'm seeing from you so far, I expect your
instructor is pretty good. I think I kept hearing him reference "more feet", but not sure,
but just think of getting better position to receive the ball and BE ON balance! Work on that balance
because it is a big key to control.
I think your instructor is taking your strokes in a good direction.
 
Good news is that the easiest thing to fix is the Forehand. If you would seriously like to have a smooth forehand and want a step by step , then IMO watching the FYB videos on the FH is a pre-requisite:

Fundamentals:
http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/video-tennis-lessons/forehand/forehand-fundamentals/

Progresssions:
http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/video-tennis-lessons/forehand/forehand-progressions/

TLDR; version:
http://lockandrolltennis.com/forehand/ (See pics a a little bit down the page)

Relaxed hitting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjBXVQyiwg
 
sportsfan1 said:
Good news is that the easiest thing to fix is the Forehand. If you would seriously like to have a smooth forehand and want a step by step , then IMO watching the FYB videos on the FH is a pre-requisite:

Fundamentals:
http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/video-tennis-lessons/forehand/forehand-fundamentals/
Click to expand...

I wouldn't get to carried away with fyb fundamentals.
Guess it assumes the ball is coming right into your wheelhouse, which
is almost never the case.
How can you use your shoulders to take the racket further back if you start
that after the shoulder turn is complete?
And you don't extend out towards your target after contact. You can see
pretty clearly in Fed and others videos if you get the correct angle,
that the hand clear is moving up and ACROSS the target line BEFORE contact.
This pretty critical and accounts for having or not having good depth control
on your shots.
#5 swing path talks only about not stopping or having a hitch and little to nothing
about the swing path.
This was just to name a couple of the improper aspects listed there.
 
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Obviously the left arm on the forehand is not ideal, but why - you have rotated the shoulders and have lost that energy before the stroke. Try hitting the forehand with two hands (keeping the left arm on the racquet) to get the feel of swinging with the shoulders into the stroke.

If this is hard for you, try catching the racquet with the left arm on the follow through.

On the backhand side, you want to hit out and through the ball, and then finish when you are past the ball. You are finishing as you contact the ball, which means you are hitting across your body and losing power. To compensate, you are hitting late (too far behind)- your contact position should be in front of the right knee (if you are turned at the ball). Try to hit through the ball, extend the arms and then follow through over the right shoulder.

IF you want to get fancy, bend the knees and get on your toes.
 
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