DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
What's different about the stroke path and contact?
Critique My Video
- Thread starter 10sLifer
- Start date
What's different about the stroke path and contact?
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
Agreed, and that difference in C or S has to do with the follow thru, which is the major difference.
10sLifer, you got a lot of feedback on your video and a pretty good chunk of it was negative. I went and looked at some of your other videos. Though I can only find videos of forehands you appear to hit the ball pretty well. As you noted, in your video you were exaggerating some aspects of the technique that you were trying to demonstrate to make a point.
However the basic point, hopefully more gently offered, remains the same. You're teaching an older style forehand. It's not a bad shot, but in general it won't be competitive with a modern stroke. The amount of spin and pace that a player can get on the ball, while maintaining a very high level of consistency, using modern stroke techniques is pretty incredible. As Timbo says you can literally hurl the racquet at the ball, both feet off the ground, throwing your entire body into the shot. I saw the video where you poke fun at the modern forehand, but honestly, I would encourage you to consider that there just might be some significant advantages to using it.
Something I noticed in the video of you demonstrating the forehand with the junior girl, she actually is not doing some of the aspects of the forehand that you are demonstrating. Her stroke has a lot of modern characteristics. Specifically:
I'm personally don't have as much of a problem with the Eastern forehand grip as other folks here, and I think it's a good grip to start with. But most players will eventually move to a more western grip because as their forehands develop it's probably a bit easier to get that action of hurling your racquet at the ball. The SW grip is the most popular grip on both the men's and women's tour and probably the grip to encourage folks to move towards. It's a nice balance of making the WW motion easy while still being able to flatten out the shot when desired.
However the basic point, hopefully more gently offered, remains the same. You're teaching an older style forehand. It's not a bad shot, but in general it won't be competitive with a modern stroke. The amount of spin and pace that a player can get on the ball, while maintaining a very high level of consistency, using modern stroke techniques is pretty incredible. As Timbo says you can literally hurl the racquet at the ball, both feet off the ground, throwing your entire body into the shot. I saw the video where you poke fun at the modern forehand, but honestly, I would encourage you to consider that there just might be some significant advantages to using it.
Something I noticed in the video of you demonstrating the forehand with the junior girl, she actually is not doing some of the aspects of the forehand that you are demonstrating. Her stroke has a lot of modern characteristics. Specifically:
- During the prep phase: You don't mention it in the video put she pulls her left hand across her body parallel to the baseline. This helps turn the shoulders. This is just about universally done at the pro level. Later on you talk about keeping the left arm out in front and "not pulling the shoulder out. However that's exactly what pros do and that's also what your student is doing. The shoulders open up as part of the forward swing and right before contact the left arm comes back toward the body. That's an import part of generating power and if you watch the video of your student hitting that's what she's actually doing.
[*]You demonstrate a low to high swing to generate the topspin and caution not to use your wrist. But at the pro level they are swinging the racquet into the ball at just slightly below the level of the ball and pronating the wrist at contact to generate the topspin. Again, that's what your student is actually doing when she hits.
[*]One other point: as she takes the racquet back she very deliberately turns the racquet face toward the side fence. You don't mention this but this but it's a good technique to help you lay your wrist back prior to bringing the racquet down to the pat the dog position. Again, this turning of the wrist is pretty universal at the pro level from what I've seen.
I'm personally don't have as much of a problem with the Eastern forehand grip as other folks here, and I think it's a good grip to start with. But most players will eventually move to a more western grip because as their forehands develop it's probably a bit easier to get that action of hurling your racquet at the ball. The SW grip is the most popular grip on both the men's and women's tour and probably the grip to encourage folks to move towards. It's a nice balance of making the WW motion easy while still being able to flatten out the shot when desired.
arche3
Banned
There are a lot of other differences. Ill write my observations later.....
mightyrick
Legend
OP. I hold a mild eastern. I really like the stroke where you attack the low ball close to the body. This is almost how I do it, as well. You can generate a ton of topspin with an EFH grip with the "bowling" motion close to the body. The variation I have put on it though is that I peel more UP on the ball rather than THROUGH the ball. I do this by making contact further out in front. I also keep my weight on my back foot on this kind of a shot. It gives me leverge to pull upward (rather than through) on the ball.
Other than that, I personally don't like how far into the court you extend your arm completely on waist/mid-torso height balls. I really think your stroke would be so much more effective if you hit a bit more out in front, kept the elbow bent, and tried to "wipe" the ball as opposed to hit through it.
My Eastern is so much more safely hit now that I "wipe" the balls that are waist high and above.
Other than that, I personally don't like how far into the court you extend your arm completely on waist/mid-torso height balls. I really think your stroke would be so much more effective if you hit a bit more out in front, kept the elbow bent, and tried to "wipe" the ball as opposed to hit through it.
My Eastern is so much more safely hit now that I "wipe" the balls that are waist high and above.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
Ok thanks. Watch especially his video from 1:15 to 1:25. That resembles a lot what Federer looks like in some of his slo mo videos.
I think that the extra high finish in the video is what is putting people off. There's no doubt he's making good contact and has good weight transfer into the shot. If the finish was just a little lower and more "normal" it would just be a classic, effective forehand. I think the old school techniques can still be effective, and the western grip topspin new school can sometimes be detrimental to people learning the game. I think both techniques can be effective, according to what is needed on a given shot, against a given opponent.
I think the original video could use some more fluid movement (footwork and stroke), but other than the unusually high finish, I don't see a big problem.
I think the original video could use some more fluid movement (footwork and stroke), but other than the unusually high finish, I don't see a big problem.
onehandbh
G.O.A.T.
Only a little bit. Maybe from the armpits up it looks like Fed, but armpits down
it does not. The result is that the OP's forehand has more of a linear swing
path vs circular/angular momentum-based swing path of most pros.
Just picking a nit, but the Western grip isn't a requirement for a modern, WW swing path. You can use any grip from Eastern to Western and still have a completely modern, WW, hurl your racquet at the ball forehand.
Thanks for your balanced, honest feedback rkelley.
A couple of other things that I can add:
- I agree with 10sLifer about copying the forehands of some pros. They can be very idocycratic with lots of extra motions that are really not necessary. That's why Tipsarevic's forehand is so nice. All the necessary parts executed in a simple and efficient manner. Federer has a nice motion too, but the straight arm makes the timing a bit more challenging.
- I found some other videos of 10sLifer hitting. The guy can hit. Nice 1hbh. The serve has some good velocity, though I think the toss could be a bit higher and the left arm drops a bit - both problems I can have with my serve at times. The volleys are well struck but there's a lot of back swing and there's a lunging toward the net. I prefer to see a more compact stroke that's a bit more out front. Volleys are about angles and often in today's game you don't have time to do more than get your racquet turned, set the angle, and give a short punch.
Looks really good. You're whacking the crud out of those balls. It's a flatish (by today's standards) forehand and I can see some of the elements that you emphasized in your earlier video, but I also see a lot of modern elements in that stroke. You're getting some WW action with your wrist which is imparting topspin. Your arm is wraping around your body and the racquet is finishing pointing towards the back fence; you're not catching the racquet out front. It looks like you threw in a couple of reverse fh's (a la Nadal).
Very nice hitting.
Very nice hitting.
Avles
Hall of Fame
Actually it seems that the OP has a Vic Braden connection:
http://www.jefflewistennis.com/aboutjeff.html
I think he's the poster formerly known as "heretoserve."
Yes this is true.
Why did you start posting under a new handle? Just curious?
To be honest I had forgotten my username password and everything. I did contact the forum but no reply. I end up on this forum every 5months or so. Just wanted to post and get feedback. Was looking more for editing suggestions to be honest but whatever. Enjoyed the conversation. See you guys in another few months. I will right down my name this time.
Nice! Beautiful area here. Glad I came.
