Curiosity Sniffed Methane on Mars

Tennease

Legend
Unique chance to confirm there is methane – and perhaps life – on Mars

SPACE 24 June 2019



pia22960.jpg

Is there methane on Mars?
NASA/JPL-Caltech/MSSS
By Daniel Cossins



NASA’s Curiosity rover has sniffed out methane on Mars again – and this time it offers a unique opportunity to confirm that the Red Planet’s atmosphere really does contain the gas, which is usually produced by living things.

The latest measurement, taken last week at Gale Crater, is the largest amount of methane ever discovered on Mars. But the concentration of methane is not the most exciting thing about the latest finding.
It turns out that two satellites were observing the area at roughly the same time Curiosity made this measurement. That gives researchers the best chance ever to confirm using independent scientific instruments that there is methane on Mars.


“This is what we have been waiting for,” says Marco Giuranna at the National Institute for Astrophysics in Italy, who leads the team behind the methane measurement device on the Mars Express probe, which has been orbiting Mars since 2003. “The data is still to be analysed, and not all of it has reached Earth yet. But we are very excited.”

Sign of life
Planetary scientists are interested in methane on Mars because it could be a sign of life. Although it can be produced by geological sources, on Earth the vast majority of the gas is pumped out by microbes and other living things.

Although we have spotted tantalising glimpses of methane on Mars a few times over the years, it has been difficult to confirm the detections with other instruments. Some sort of destruction mechanism might quickly remove methane from the lower atmosphere, but the uncertainty has led to scepticism about past methane sightings.
This time could be different. Giuranna says that Mars Express just happened to have its spectrometer trained on Gale Crater for an extended period, a technique known as “spot rigging”, around 20 hours before the rover made its detection on the ground, as well as a day later. “We typically have a couple of spot rigging events per month, so we were lucky here,” he says.

Another satellite called the Trace Gas Orbiter, which boasts two instruments capable of detecting methane, also has data from the same area on the same day.

Unique opportunity
“This is the first time we have Trace Gas Orbiter observations so close in time and space from detection of methane on Mars,” says Giuranna. “This is a unique opportunity to check this detection with four different instruments.”

Curiosity was instructed to carry out follow-up air-sampling experiments over the weekend. The results were expected today. NASA’s press office told New Scientist that the research team will need more time to go over their data before sharing more findings.
It will still be difficult to say what generated the gas. Neither Curiosity nor the remote sensors on probes orbiting Mars can directly answer that question, says Giuranna. But the first step to understanding the origin of methane would be to pinpoint the region where it was released, and confirmation that this latest detection is real would give the Mars2020 rover, which is equipped with a drill, a potential new target.

“Mars is too cold for life to be easily formed on the surface because water is not stable in liquid form,” says Giuranna. “With Mars2020, we will be able to drill down not more than 2 metres but this could be enough to find a new environment below the surface where life could form.”
 
Last edited:
It is always something, and they never get any closer to actually finding life. If they have not found it by now, they won't.

It is not just about that. It is more about job creation and global competitiveness, and the private industries and technologies which spin off from the research efforts.
 
It is not just about that. It is more about job creation and global competitiveness, and the private industries and technologies which spin off from the research efforts.
Then up and make it worth everyone time. Send some peeps there already. Way more jobs would be created, the interest would help the market and economy.
 
Unique chance to confirm there is methane – and perhaps life – on Mars

SPACE 24 June 2019



pia22960.jpg

Is there methane on Mars?
NASA/JPL-Caltech/MSSS
By Daniel Cossins



NASA’s Curiosity rover has sniffed out methane on Mars again – and this time it offers a unique opportunity to confirm that the Red Planet’s atmosphere really does contain the gas, which is usually produced by living things.

The latest measurement, taken last week at Gale Crater, is the largest amount of methane ever discovered on Mars. But the concentration of methane is not the most exciting thing about the latest finding.
It turns out that two satellites were observing the area at roughly the same time Curiosity made this measurement. That gives researchers the best chance ever to confirm using independent scientific instruments that there is methane on Mars.


“This is what we have been waiting for,” says Marco Giuranna at the National Institute for Astrophysics in Italy, who leads the team behind the methane measurement device on the Mars Express probe, which has been orbiting Mars since 2003. “The data is still to be analysed, and not all of it has reached Earth yet. But we are very excited.”

Sign of life
Planetary scientists are interested in methane on Mars because it could be a sign of life. Although it can be produced by geological sources, on Earth the vast majority of the gas is pumped out by microbes and other living things.

Although we have spotted tantalising glimpses of methane on Mars a few times over the years, it has been difficult to confirm the detections with other instruments. Some sort of destruction mechanism might quickly remove methane from the lower atmosphere, but the uncertainty has led to scepticism about past methane sightings.
This time could be different. Giuranna says that Mars Express just happened to have its spectrometer trained on Gale Crater for an extended period, a technique known as “spot rigging”, around 20 hours before the rover made its detection on the ground, as well as a day later. “We typically have a couple of spot rigging events per month, so we were lucky here,” he says.

Another satellite called the Trace Gas Orbiter, which boasts two instruments capable of detecting methane, also has data from the same area on the same day.

Unique opportunity
“This is the first time we have Trace Gas Orbiter observations so close in time and space from detection of methane on Mars,” says Giuranna. “This is a unique opportunity to check this detection with four different instruments.”

Curiosity was instructed to carry out follow-up air-sampling experiments over the weekend. The results were expected today. NASA’s press office told New Scientist that the research team will need more time to go over their data before sharing more findings.
It will still be difficult to say what generated the gas. Neither Curiosity nor the remote sensors on probes orbiting Mars can directly answer that question, says Giuranna. But the first step to understanding the origin of methane would be to pinpoint the region where it was released, and confirmation that this latest detection is real would give the Mars2020 rover, which is equipped with a drill, a potential new target.

“Mars is too cold for life to be easily formed on the surface because water is not stable in liquid form,” says Giuranna. “With Mars2020, we will be able to drill down not more than 2 metres but this could be enough to find a new environment below the surface where life could form.”
this is great. I would love to go there and live there
 
Then up and make it worth everyone time. Send some peeps there already. Way more jobs would be created, the interest would help the market and economy.

Lots of liability and emotional issues with sending humans on space trips. Hey we are trying to get rid of humans driving cars on Earth because they are so incompetent. Military is relying more and more on Unmanned Vehicles to save lives. Robots are a much better choice. And this would lead to making better robots on earth while a human will only come back (if lucky) with some stories.
 
Lots of liability and emotional issues with sending humans on space trips. Hey we are trying to get rid of humans driving cars on Earth because they are so incompetent. Military is relying more and more on Unmanned Vehicles to save lives. Robots are a much better choice. And this would lead to making better robots on earth while a human will only come back (if lucky) with some stories.
Bring emotion into it, it drives interest and focus on the subject, and in return, this drives finance and discovery.
 
Bring emotion into it, it drives interest and focus on the subject, and in return, this drives finance and discovery.

Loss of life will only lead to finger-pointing and political grandstanding. Some scapegoat will be summoned and questioned by politicians and then humiliated and fired.
 
Loss of life will only lead to finger-pointing and political grandstanding. Some scapegoat will be summoned and questioned by politicians and then humiliated and fired.
We should be at the point where we are skilled and smart enough not to lose life, but once again, that would bring more interest. The most interesting space endeavors were when man was actually in space.
 
We should be at the point where we are skilled and smart enough not to lose life, but once again, that would bring more interest. The most interesting space endeavors were when man was actually in space.

That was before the current age of automation. Except Sci Fi writers, no one else could even comprehend that a plane could be driven almost entirely on auto pilot, or that you could win a war without ground troops.
 
Lots of liability and emotional issues with sending humans on space trips. Hey we are trying to get rid of humans driving cars on Earth because they are so incompetent. Military is relying more and more on Unmanned Vehicles to save lives. Robots are a much better choice. And this would lead to making better robots on earth while a human will only come back (if lucky) with some stories.
SkyNet? No thanks! Do not want to be exterminated!
 
It is disappointing as everyone was expecting green Martians with pink shoes. But no sign of life. Not even fossil records. Looks like nothing ever existed there.

Microorganisms don't have hard structures which become fossils.

There are only 2 possibilities: either life originated on earth or came in from outside. Both are equally probable at this point.

Did you know that water, which is essential for most known life forms, came to earth entirely as ice carried by comets? The earth did not have a drop of water of its own.
 
Microorganisms don't have hard structures which become fossils.

There are only 2 possibilities: either life originated on earth or came in from outside. Both are equally probable at this point.

Did you know that water, which is essential for most known life forms, came to earth entirely as ice carried by comets? The earth did not have a drop of water of its own.

Equally probable?

If water is essential for life, and water was externally delivered here via comets, then it's far more probable that those comets seeded life on many other planets as well.

What makes planet Earth so unique as to think life originated here as opposed to a billion other planets?
:unsure:
 
Last edited:
Equally probable?

If water is essential for life, and water was externally delivered here via comets, then it's far more probable that those comets seeded life on many other planets as well.

What makes Earth so unique as to think life originated here as opposed to a billion other places?
:unsure:
It's not, but when you do the math, having life on Mars is almost impossible. There is life out there, but it is so big. There could be 30% of planets and moons with life, yet there could be no life outside earth for Trillion and trillions of miles.
 
It's not, but when you do the math, having life on Mars is almost impossible. There is life out there, but it is so big. There could be 30% of planets and moons with life, yet there could be no life outside earth for Trillion and trillions of miles.

Nevertheless, Mars is very similar to Earth, hence it is disappointing to find no signs that advanced life forms, such as dinosaurs, ever existed there.
No evidence of any type of life in its 4 billion year history.
 
Last edited:
So curiosity sniffed out an alien fart eh? Then I'm glad the scientists managed to convince the mechanics to install a Smell-O-Scope. Hopefully we can bring these alien fart samples back to earth for further study, and further sniffing.
 
If water is essential for life, and water was externally delivered here via comets, then it's far more probable that those comets seeded life on many other planets as well.
Are you saying water is essential for complex life, or even for the most primitive ?
I remember reading somewhere that at an earlier time, there was a period when life was anaerobic (did not require oxygen, at that point there was very little o2 in the air). When the O2 level rose, that life got extinguished.
Okay this is not related to water, but just wondering whether the earliest forms required water or not.
 
It is always something, and they never get any closer to actually finding life. If they have not found it by now, they won't.

I've been reading about life on Mars as a possibility since I was a child, so at this point it just feels like desperation. Wish I could get excited about this, but Lucy has pulled back the football too many times. ;)

Maybe it's not about finding life, but being able to prepare Mars for colonization in the future, certianly not in our lifetime.

THere's an excellent trilogy called the Mars Trilogy which is very technical. Great reviews, I intend reading it someday when i have time. I am told it is quite heavy and requires a lot of scientifica knowledge to follow.
 
What math ?

Are you saying that life similar to that on earth is impossible ? I mean life with similar structures and biochemistry.

Probability math. Example: let's say 100 million people on earth have a disease, what are the chances you have it? Or a friend? Sounds high when you say 100 million, but in reality your chances would be very very low. In fact it would 1.6% to be exact.

Now do that with life in the entire universe but it is ten fold to the example I gave you. Chances of finding life right next to you is low, very low.
 
Maybe it's not about finding life, but being able to prepare Mars for colonization in the future, certianly not in our lifetime.

THere's an excellent trilogy called the Mars Trilogy which is very technical. Great reviews, I intend reading it someday when i have time. I am told it is quite heavy and requires a lot of scientifica knowledge to follow.
I've read it. The first book is good, but it goes down from there. I think the science is great, but you probably won't like the characters.
 
Probability math. Example: let's say 100 million people on earth have a disease, what are the chances you have it? Or a friend? Sounds high when you say 100 million, but in reality your chances would be very very low. In fact it would 1.6% to be exact.

Now do that with life in the entire universe but it is ten fold to the example I gave you. Chances of finding life right next to you is low, very low.

Ok, so you meant "unlikely" not impossible.

But I don't really think probability matters here.
In fact, I would rather think that life would be in clumps, and not neatly separated out.

If life did indeed come here on some comet, that comet would be circling the solar system and possibly nearby regions. If water came from comets, those comets might have given water to other planets here too.
That primitive life form might evolve very differently on different planets just as life is so varied here.

However, if you say that life is unlikely on Mars due to very thin atmosphere or temperature, I might understand that better.
 
It is disappointing as everyone was expecting green Martians with pink shoes. But no sign of life. Not even fossil records. Looks like nothing ever existed there.
Nevertheless, Mars is very similar to Earth, hence it is disappointing to find no signs that advanced life forms, such as dinosaurs, ever existed there.
No evidence of any type of life in its 4 billion year history.
Is that true ?

Have we really looked and dug, or just done some cursory looking over tiny sections of the planet.

Are you not sure we need to dig deep to see if there could be layers below which have signs of life long back.

I understand that Mars has a thin atmosphere, so maybe there is not much erosion and dust so there maybe arent layers upon layers. What was on top millions of years ago, is still on top ?? Is that what they are saying ? No need to dig ?

What about meteorites levelling out evidence ? Surely over the last billion years thousands of meteorites would have hit Mars.
 
You've read it??? Wow. Thanks for warning me.
Yes. Originally read it, then made it through the audio books. I almost never read books now. My eyes get so tired from the work I do teaching and then reading things in places like this, and typing, that I relax my eyes by just listening. Unfortunately there are some great books that have never been recorded.
 
Ok, so you meant "unlikely" not impossible.

But I don't really think probability matters here.
In fact, I would rather think that life would be in clumps, and not neatly separated out.

If life did indeed come here on some comet, that comet would be circling the solar system and possibly nearby regions. If water came from comets, those comets might have given water to other planets here too.
That primitive life form might evolve very differently on different planets just as life is so varied here.

However, if you say that life is unlikely on Mars due to very thin atmosphere or temperature, I might understand that better.

Sometimes you do make intelligent posts.

Probability may not make sense for exceptional events. Like a Federer cannot be predicted based on Swiss population. That is why there are many objections to the Drake equation.
 
However, if you say that life is unlikely on Mars due to very thin atmosphere or temperature, I might understand that better.

Have they found past life? I did not think they had. It would not matter about the planet's atmosphere. The life from a comet would still be found, just maybe not as rampant because it could not evolve.

life is not easily destroyed if present, and since we still have no evidence of how life forms, Earth might have formed life on its own due to the extreme circumstances and timing.

giphy.gif
 
Ok, so you meant "unlikely" not impossible.

But I don't really think probability matters here.
In fact, I would rather think that life would be in clumps, and not neatly separated out.

If life did indeed come here on some comet, that comet would be circling the solar system and possibly nearby regions. If water came from comets, those comets might have given water to other planets here too.

Lets assume Soureshs premise that water is essential for life and that water was delivered here externally thru comets. I don't see how Soureshs then concludes there is 50/50 probability that life exists elsewhere.

Those comets must have delivered water to billions of other planets. Thus it is far more probable than not that life developed on other planets as well.
 
Lets assume Soureshs premise that water is essential for life and that water was delivered here externally thru comets. I don't see how Soureshs then concludes there is 50/50 probability that life exists elsewhere.

Those comets must have delivered water to billions of other planets. Thus it is far more probable than not that life developed on other planets as well.
Water is definitely a must, but it does not create life. Many places in space have been confirmed to have water, mostly frozen, but water nonetheless.
 
Water is definitely a must, but it does not create life. Many places in space have been confirmed to have water, mostly frozen, but water nonetheless.

Can we say that there are billions of other planets, in other solar systems, with similar conditions that exist here on Earth?
 
Lets assume Soureshs premise that water is essential for life and that water was delivered here externally thru comets. I don't see how Soureshs then concludes there is 50/50 probability that life exists elsewhere.

Those comets must have delivered water to billions of other planets. Thus it is far more probable than not that life developed on other planets as well.

Good point.
 
Absolutely, but that also does not mean those have life.

Understood. It is just strange that
life would only develop here and not on another one of a billion earth-like planets...OTOH, I am also comfortable with the possibilty that Earth is the only planet where life exists. Maybe the conditions had to be just right and the Earth was the one in a trillion case where life developed.
 
Understood. It is just strange that
life would only develop here and not on another one of a billion earth-like planets...OTOH, I am also comfortable with the possibilty that Earth is the only planet where life exists. Maybe the conditions had to be just right and the Earth was the one in a trillion case where life developed.
I just wish we had evidence of how life is created.
 
Back
Top