Curious
Talk Tennis Guru
I guess. Had never hit that many backhands in one go and I tried quite a few things during that time.
Curious’ match/practice videos
- Thread starter Curious
- Start date
It's none of my business for sure, but I say it with utmost sensitivity and respect. I'm really interested to figure out if C's bh improved by hitting with Z. It's primarily because Z has a tendency to make hitting look a bit of an effort with body fighting for space and time. How does that skewed appearance come in the way of improvement vs regression?
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zill
G.O.A.T.
Okay.
What has this got anything to do with C's bh improvement? Are you asking about my bh improvement? As far as C is concerned he is just receiving balls hit from me. I am not giving him any advice nor do I hit a 1hb.
zill
G.O.A.T.
I think C is too busy figuring how to return my balls properly, as opposed to shanking it. This is not a beauty contest. C?
imo, tennis is a conversation. The style of play greatly affects how the opponent plays. If he senses the opponent is getting it easy vs hard, the reaction will vary significantly.
do we hate to lose to a pusher or a classical player? imo, most people hate losing to a pusher because of his ugly shots. how can this guy with ugly shot beat me? lot of folks are okay when a player with decent looking strokes beats them.
also pushers make other play worse.
so style of play does impact the opponent.
So definitely it’s interesting to find out what C thinks - does it make him want to fight harder or just give up or try harder than he should. interesting mental battle.
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StringSnapper
Hall of Fame
The footwork is looking smoother! Its not about being overly busy, but landing from the split just after opponent makes contact, then moving efficiently into place. You're doing that a lot here (but not all the time)
StringSnapper
Hall of Fame
Its got nothing to do with it lol
I find it interesting since I have been on a stroke rebuilding exercise myself.
how does this post of yours square with your earlier statement where you said you were going to give up bh drives? what made you say that? would you say the same thing if you had 2 hour instead of 4 session? or hit with someone else?
Curious
Talk Tennis Guru
I guess you’d agree that there’s some naturalness to a forehand, probably because it’s a dominant side swing. I’m really sick of the lack of that feeling on the backhand side, hence realising this fact I’ve sort of given up the quest. It will never feel like a forehand (like the ones I hit in this video for example). So I thought the only option (at least for me) is to develop a good enough/functional bh, which in my opinion is a simplest low to high and forward swing with very few elements to minimise issues.
zill
G.O.A.T.
That first backhand is the first deep cross court topspin 1hb I've seen you hit from behind the baseline in a match. We basically did almost 4 hours of that over two sessions. Must have helped then.
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
Can you do at least 25?
Curious
Talk Tennis Guru
I don’t want to look defensive but why would I try to practice something that will never happen in a match?
Actually we talked about this with zill. I said let’s do 3 in a row and reset and repeat considering 3 backhands in a row is very match like. After 2 minutes of trying he wanted to stop saying it’s distracting.
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zill
G.O.A.T.
Well I couldn't make even 1, when I count.
StringSnapper
Hall of Fame
i think its fine, no sure why AnyPUG thinks it looks like such an eyesore it would limit your opponents ability to concentrate or improve ...
zill
G.O.A.T.
Lol I was the one who found something clearly distracting when I hit with C, counting backhands! I'd label it as a hinderance. But am sure its due to my 5 year old bh still being new and not fluent enough. Will get there eventually. @Curious has 13 years with his so may not find it as distracting.
StringSnapper
Hall of Fame
you know that my one hander feels more natural to me than my forehand? i think because i play golf / cricket / baseball right handed - and i played those in school on and off before picking up tennis.
for me i had to develop the unnatural forehand, but its such an important shot that i was forced into it. i think the backhand is one of those things where you can opt-out mostly with a dominant serve and forehand and slice. my forehand feels a bit more natural now but still not as much as my backhand, but i think it surpasses my backhand - i'd prefer to hit a forehand over a backhand most days, but its not that big a difference. probably because anatomically the forehand is a bit easier, so i kind of feel for you where the backhand isnt the natural side AND its anatomically a more difficult shot.
... but in saying that, "feeling natural" might be over-rated and not something to aim for, since my bh feels more natural, but i'd say my fh produces a better ball most of the time. and the ball it produces is what matters. and i think its safe to expect it to not produce a ball better than your forehand and theres nothing wrong with that - most players are like that.
StringSnapper
Hall of Fame
looking good, some really good shots here
eyesore, painful etc are out of line imo, I had mentioned a bit of an effortful shot previously.
but these look same effort as C’s forehands - which is great.
where does it leave us? should C minimize training his weak side and look to capitalize on his strength? i’m not sure if the investment on addressing weakness ever pays off. these are something to think about and not necessarily my advice one way or another.
if you could, please don’t put words into my mouth and I think i’m quite capable of expressing myself, quite eloquently in fact. words do not fail me especially when I’m writing.
I’m more focused on C’s hitting and training efforts since I’m on a similar shot tweaking journey.
good form there. tell me one thing- why did you find the need to slice 3-4 shots on the forehand side? they were gettable shots for a FH drive. was it a judgement error or some other consideration?
“don’t feel natural” is lack of awareness imo. I used to verbalize the same thing for my forehands until this year. it took me several years to finally realize that I had misunderstood the swing path and necessary setup needed to execute the shot, I could hit BH without similar building exercise because of setup was forced by the 2hander. FH needed a conscious learning step.
Knowing what I know today, if I were to learn a new stroke today - i’ll ask myself - one, do I know the swing path. and 2 do i understand the body setup for executing the shot.
not feeling natural really means knowledge gap (unless there is a physical limitation and the body doesn’t listen to the brain)
Curious
Talk Tennis Guru
I watched again. 2 fh slices. A little out of position and laziness I guess.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
you are right, I counted one half volley/on the rise pickup FH as slice.
while doing that I noticed something remarkable- your spacing on FH is immaculate, you take adjustment steps to create the necessary space. that’s entirely missing on the BH side, no good spacing and no effort made to create one. that tells me it’s really not knowing how to execute the shot - swing path, space needed to create it and the body setup to implement the shot. what you think?
Curious
Talk Tennis Guru
What can I think? I must be hopeless then as it’s been 13 years!
you were aware of the spacing issue and couldn’t address it all these years? I know how it would feelWhat can I think? I must be hopeless then as it’s been 13 years!
ballmachineguy
Legend
If you are really interested in knowing El Cap’s bh issue, you will get out the ball machine and hit forehands with only your left foot on the ground and put the right foot down only at the moment you start the forward part of the swing.
Curious
Talk Tennis Guru
I had lessons from 5-6 coaches seriously. One was an ex ATP player with a one hander. You reckon they all missed something that you a rec player of 8 years spotted ?
user92626
G.O.A.T.
So u were sarcastic in your previous poast to AnyPug?
It's not like you don't know the basics and I'm pointing out something fundamental which coaches teach. Spacing is an additional tool to make the shot more consistent and powerful.
I have worked with many coaches too. My forehand spacing issue was originally pointed out by a soccer player who played at semi-pro level. He showed how soccer players make space and adjust feet to kick and said I should do the same to hit the tennis ball. I suggest experimenting with different spacing configurations and see if any one setup feels more comfortable to see the ball and unload without having to fall back (which you seemed to do most of the time).
Of course, I don't know his intentions. But even if the question is serious, he is asking the right and legitimate question. Why would a rec player observe something pros didn't see? It's a genuine point of order. Honestly I don't know the answer, for my eyes, definitely his FH side spacing is another level compared to what he adjusts on BH. I'm sure he will see it too if he paid some comparative attention.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
This technical stuff is hard enough to communicate, add in sarcasm and whatnot would sure make it a much longer day.
But this makes sense how or why people are where they are.
Curious
Talk Tennis Guru
Being at the right distance to a moving ball as a moving body is one of the biggest difficulties in tennis. It takes ages to develop the skills required for that: perception/reading the ball, the right way to move to the ball and at the right time.
You are right about everything you say. My point was around the actual spacing and not how to create it in terms of reacting, movement etc. The question simply is whether I have considered ideal spacing from the ball since it makes incredible difference to the quality of the shot. You seem to be creating that ideal situation on the FH side. Now can it translate to BH as well?
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
For consistency. That's how my main coach starts the lesson on both wings, after warm up.
And 2 minutes it's decent, just be careful not to push the ball. If I do that, my coach calls me out and I have to swing/hit harder.
Just a thought and I like your priorities. Keep on truckin' bud!
Curious
Talk Tennis Guru
Bad spacing how? Too far/too close? Front/lateral?
Curious
Talk Tennis Guru
Focus and quality goes down when people try to keep the rally going with not missing in mind mainly. So, instead of hitting 25 cross court shots with half of them weak, too short or dangerously towards the middle, focusing on 3 high quality shots and resetting serves better for improving match play in my opinion.
zill
G.O.A.T.
Question is why can’t you do 25 high quality shots in a row? While stationary and expecting the ball to come to you unlike in a match.
probably too close, I would first check lateral and see if there is another distance to make an ideal swing at the ball.
Curious
Talk Tennis Guru
Because it’s unnecessary and unrealistic.
zill
G.O.A.T.
You can’t hit 25 in a row because it’s unnecessary and unrealistic? Are you in Primary school?
zill
G.O.A.T.
Why is Thiem standing in a corner here and blasting balls before the French Open? Even ball feeds later in the vid? There must be no point since it’s completely unrealistic in a pro match according to your logic.
The fact he is doing it must be because it’s necessary as there are a million other things for him to work on but he chose to be doing these.
zill
G.O.A.T.
In a match, the goal is to win the last point with the entire court open. Plus the server starts the point. So conditions are hostile to super long rallies and we see that most points end quickly as a result.
But that doesn’t mean there is no need to practice long rallies. And more importantly it’s NOT an excuse NOT to be able to hit consistently.
If you are unable to hit consistently then just say so. Don’t come up with excuses. Okay you can’t hit consistent backhands so in matches your strategy is to hit the least amount of backhands possible and try to win by other means. That’s fine. But there is no harm to still practice and improve your backhand in practice and it showed with you hitting your first deep topspin backhand from behind the baseline in your match the other day.
But that doesn’t mean there is no need to practice long rallies. And more importantly it’s NOT an excuse NOT to be able to hit consistently.
If you are unable to hit consistently then just say so. Don’t come up with excuses. Okay you can’t hit consistent backhands so in matches your strategy is to hit the least amount of backhands possible and try to win by other means. That’s fine. But there is no harm to still practice and improve your backhand in practice and it showed with you hitting your first deep topspin backhand from behind the baseline in your match the other day.
zill
G.O.A.T.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
I have this theory ...
when Curious started his recreational tennis career, he secretly signed up with zill for training. The terms are zill's going to be on Curious case like a fly on stuff all the time, giving him tips and tough luff. Make a man out of C.
How else do you explain the exclusivity of zill's attention on C?
enishi1357
Semi-Pro
I have never seen someone twirl the racquet after the follow through with one hand. If that is not a flex I don't know what is.
zill
G.O.A.T.
I have this theory ...
when Curious started his recreational tennis career, he secretly signed up with zill for training. The terms are zill's going to be on Curious case like a fly on stuff all the time, giving him tips and tough luff. Make a man out of C.
How else do you explain the exclusivity of zill's attention on C?
C and I have a weird chemistry, I'm not gonna lie but that is all there is to it.
And we both love and are obsessed with tennis.
Curious
Talk Tennis Guru
Ok, repetition is good obviously. But I still think our fitness is limited to 3-4 balls with maximum balance, position and high quality shot making. You know most points last only 5-10 seconds. Practice what you need in a match.
zill
G.O.A.T.
Let’s just do what we can.
