Curious’ match/practice videos

10sbeast888

Hall of Fame
More confident with my serve now I’m not holding back on any of my strokes. Well, backhand drive will be part of it soon. I feel it.


the senior amateur australian open is more interesting than the pro version:)

great serves as usual.

your smoking the fh's... what changed? the no-backswing?

bh drives not bad, just need more reps;

the bh slice tempo still needs fix... I will find something later;

the volleys are still swung from the shoulder, should be easy fix.

but why are all your opps push-overs, you progressed too fast? maybe get someone who can beat you and expose the next areas to work on?
 

10sbeast888

Hall of Fame

the first 3 he hit either with the right foot crossing over or not, the tempo is the same.

here is the feel vs real again lol.

in the pro vids you just see they load the back foot then chop it... like a 1-3?

in the feel though, it should be 1-2-3: 1. load back foot; 2. plant front foot; 3. arm swing.

at the '2' moment as you plant the front foot, you should feel the hitting arm still RISING and INCREASED coil/stretch of your back muscles to build the rubber band stretch.

take some shadow swings maybe:)

@Rosstour pls check your slice tempo with the above.
 

10sbeast888

Hall of Fame
1-3 rhythm. 2(drop) happens with racket head’s inertia. Just swing the hand to the ball.

that's a huge bonus from fixing the bh.

was a bit surprised that you didn't know that before... for the fh Macci has multiple sessions explaining the fh that way, from many years ago.
 

Dragy

Legend
1-3 rhythm. 2(drop) happens with racket head’s inertia. Just swing the hand to the ball.
That happens if the ball is in perfect strokezone. 2 is not to get the drop for sake of drop, it’s to find the proper swing level/shape versus the actual live ball.

That’s the difference between shadow-swinging and trying to apply into rally and points. Shadow-swings are only valuable if you visualize the ball, including most common variations.

But you can surely “intuit” your way through it, if you keep persistent and don’t drift away from the goal. Dunno how long it will take though.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
That happens if the ball is in perfect strokezone. 2 is not to get the drop for sake of drop, it’s to find the proper swing level/shape versus the actual live ball.

That’s the difference between shadow-swinging and trying to apply into rally and points. Shadow-swings are only valuable if you visualize the ball, including most common variations.

But you can surely “intuit” your way through it, if you keep persistent and don’t drift away from the goal. Dunno how long it will take though.
Of course I didn’t miss that point while tinkering. The answer is the level of your hitting hand in take back. You adjust that. I’ve realised it’s oftentimes higher than necessary. So, Rune for me!
I’d rather get caught with my hand lower than ideal than higher.
 

Dragy

Legend
Of course I didn’t miss that point while tinkering. The answer is the level of your hitting hand in take back. You adjust that. I’ve realised it’s oftentimes higher than necessary. So, Rune for me!
I’d rather get caught with my hand lower than ideal than higher.
Well, that’s possible to think like this, let’s see.

In my experience, I always tried to complete the takeback by ball bounce, of course I have height anticipation by that moment, but if it’s a topspin shot — it will vary in height and arc of the bounce. So I usually need a tool to fine tune my swing level and shape rather than feel obliged to do what was predetermined :)

So if you play on predictable surface against penetrating balls and maybe take more of them early, you preset the swing level. If there’s typically more variation, you can do it more like pros on FH side: high early prep, arm drop after bounce to initiate the forward swing, transitioning into major acceleration with uncoil and completion (thumb thing, ESR, across and up pull, whatever you use as a cue now) into and through contact.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
you can do it more like pros on FH side: high early prep, arm drop after bounce to initiate the forward swing,
That’s the difficult one for me, arm drop. Again if my hand level is not ideal when I’m about to swing forward, I’d rather that be too low than too high.
 

10sbeast888

Hall of Fame
That’s the difficult one for me, arm drop. Again if my hand level is not ideal when I’m about to swing forward, I’d rather that be too low than too high.

on this one I agree with @Dragy -

dropping from 'too high' is easier than chasing up from 'too low' due to going with/against gravity.

but we'll let this one play out as this 1-3 tempo is still new..... every player is different.

also the level of competition is a factor, it would be very difficult to cover a high bouncing spinny ball if you are caught too low.

but - if you can smoke them fh like you did today, then don't fix something that's working!
 
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Curious

G.O.A.T.
on this one I agree with @Dragy -

dropping from 'too high' is easier than chasing up from 'too low' due to going with/against gravity.

but we'll let this one play out as this 1-3 tempo is still new..... every player is different.

also the level of competition is a factor, it would be very difficult to cover a high bouncing spinny ball if you are caught too low.
Not many Nadals in rec tennis. Anyway I frequently find my hand too high, add lack of drop to this and the result is not a reliable top spin shot. When my hand is too low I still have a good chance to swing at the ball, low to high.
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
Not many Nadals in rec tennis. Anyway I frequently find my hand too high, add lack of drop to this and the result is not a reliable top spin shot. When my hand is too low I still have a good chance to swing at the ball, low to high.
I noticed the same thing. I practiced a high takeback and backswing like crazy only to find most balls at thigh level. This sucks azz when you can't bend your knees well.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
I noticed the same thing. I practiced a high takeback and backswing like crazy only to find most balls at thigh level. This sucks azz when you can't bend your knees well.
Yeah, and I think it’s easier and higher percentage to swing low to high than high to high on unexpected high balls, unless they are very short.
 

10sbeast888

Hall of Fame
I noticed the same thing. I practiced a high takeback and backswing like crazy only to find most balls at thigh level. This sucks azz when you can't bend your knees well.

ok- 'high take back' shouldn't mean at the same level...

your right hand should track the ball, but always say 3 inches above it, as the racket drop will pull the hand down just a bit..

that's plenty... would be fake tennis if you take it back above your head knowing a low skidding slice is coming.
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
ok- 'high take back' shouldn't mean at the same level...

your right hand should track the ball, but always say 3 inches above it, as the racket drop will pull the hand down just a bit..

that's plenty... would be fake tennis if you take it back above your head knowing a low skidding slice is coming.
By high take back, I mean my default, usual take back should always be the non-dom hand around the chin level. This should be consistent and always as you initiate it as soon as the ball leaving opponent's racket, ie you don't know it will be a skidding or a high bouncing ball, right?

Watch Djokovic or Federer rallys, their takeback's height is always consistent and later their drops vary according to CP height.
 

10sbeast888

Hall of Fame
By high take back, I mean my default, usual take back should always be the non-dom hand around the chin level. This should be consistent and always as you initiate it as soon as the ball leaving opponent's racket, ie you don't know it will be a skidding or a high bouncing ball, right?

Watch Djokovic or Federer rallys, their takeback's height is always consistent and later their drops vary according to CP height.

that's only feasible when you have the footwork and hand-eye to consistently make contact around the optimal height - waist to the knees, why would you vary at all.

for recreational hacking e.g. I can't get to the right spot and I can only make safe hits at the apex when the ball's vertical speed is close to zero, so my contact height is all over the place, from the shoulders down to the shins, therefore I track that level with the hitting hand.

rec hacking is a very different game.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Watch Djokovic or Federer rallys, their takeback's height is always consistent and later their drops vary according to CP height.
How come Rune gets away with this?
Isn’t his way more reliable for us again considering there are not many Nadals around?

 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
This guy has to widen stance alot to get low for low ball and bounce off the ground for high ball. It's not for an old stiff guy like yourself and me, Curious.

Without intent to copy Rune or anyone, I intuitively lower my racket face to shoulder level. It just feels more comfortable and natural for rec level. The thing about shoulder level racket face is that my elbow is also not raised, ie lazy by the side, and thus shorten my swing arc.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
1-3 for Forehand?

How does 1-3 work in FH? Explain?
1. Take back
2. Drop
3. Forward swing

You need to drop your racket head. How many times have you heard this?
You don’t need to drop it. It will happen with your forward swing.
As coach always say drop the racket head, people tried to make it happen.
But it happens naturally as long as you have the right grip, loose grip and racket above your hand at the start of forward swing. So it’s 1-3. Not 1-2-3.

The bh version here. Fh the same.


 
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user92626

G.O.A.T.
1. Take back
2. Drop
3. Forward swing

You need to drop your racket head. How many times have you heard this?
You don’t need to drop it. It will happen with your forward swing.
I see. This could work.

I did do 1, 2, 3, but I will try 1-3. Thanks.

Somehow my mind needs to be aware of the start of the forward swing in order for me to accelerate hard. Hence the drop / #2. I cannot think acceleration from take back point or anywhere else.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
I see. This could work.

I did do 1, 2, 3, but I will try 1-3. Thanks.

Somehow my mind needs to be aware of the start of the forward swing in order for me to accelerate hard. Hence the drop / #2. I cannot think acceleration from take back point or anywhere else.
Just turn and take back at the same time, then swing your hand to the ball. Forget about the racket for a moment there. It’ll come along.
 

10sbeast888

Hall of Fame
I see. This could work.

I did do 1, 2, 3, but I will try 1-3. Thanks.

Somehow my mind needs to be aware of the start of the forward swing in order for me to accelerate hard. Hence the drop / #2. I cannot think acceleration from take back point or anywhere else.

the 'start' is actually the hand drop to the dog.

so the hand doesn't start the forward swing from a dead stop... it drops down, finds the dog, then boom - the '3'.

this is sort of related to me saying the hand being 3" above the ball... so the transition from the 1 to the 3 is smooth.
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
@Curious @10sbeast888

Look at this Djokovic clip below.

His takeback and backswing is up and then down like going uphill and then downhill, right?

I wonder how you guys would segment this into an easy 1, 2, 3, 4, .... And which part is our conscious attempt (or check point) and which part should be left to be automatic.


 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
the 'start' is actually the hand drop to the dog.

so the hand doesn't start the forward swing from a dead stop... it drops down, finds the dog, then boom - the '3'.

this is sort of related to me saying the hand being 3" above the ball... so the transition from the 1 to the 3 is smooth.
well there you go. "It drops down" should be a number or a phase of its own, right?
 

10sbeast888

Hall of Fame
@Curious @10sbeast888

Look at this Djokovic clip below.

His takeback and backswing is up and then down like going uphill and then downhill, right?

I wonder how you guys would segment this into an easy 1, 2, 3, 4, .... And which part is our conscious attempt (or check point) and which part should be left to be automatic.



to be more precise, the '2' that C got rid of is really the ESR part.

so the ESR, or what Macci calls the 'flip' is automatic. everything else is conscious.
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
to be more precise, the '2' that C got rid of is really the ESR part.

so the ESR, or what Macci calls the 'flip' is automatic. everything else is conscious.
I know the flip is automatic, but the flip happens after the drop.

Aren't we supposed to be aware of the drop? To do a good drop as we do a good takeback and a good forward swing?
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
I know the flip is automatic, but the flip happens after the drop.

Aren't we supposed to be aware of the drop? To do a good drop as we do a good takeback and a good forward swing?
Here’s a sample from yesterday. All I focus on is 1-3.
Yes my hand drops a bit but don’t you think it’s mostly a shallow take back somewhat similar to Rune’s?

 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
Here’s a sample from yesterday. All I focus on is 1-3.
Yes my hand drops a bit but don’t you think it’s mostly a shallow take back somewhat similar to Rune’s?

Wow.. you're consistent.

Questions:

Is your friend also standing similarly far back behind the baseline like you?

You guys are freaking strong to wack the ball that bounces that deep. Usually when I rally against a strong hitter (to me), I stand only a step or two behind the baseline. Maybe we're really weak!

Your backswing looks short. Imagine if you could take it a bit farther back, you'd have even better power.
 

Shroud

Talk Tennis Guru
@Curious @10sbeast888

Look at this Djokovic clip below.

His takeback and backswing is up and then down like going uphill and then downhill, right?

I wonder how you guys would segment this into an easy 1, 2, 3, 4, .... And which part is our conscious attempt (or check point) and which part should be left to be automatic.


FWIW, Yandell had me do 1 and 4 only. No clue on what happened between them.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Wow.. you're consistent.

Questions:

Is your friend also standing similarly far back behind the baseline like you?

You guys are freaking strong to wack the ball that bounces that deep. Usually when I rally against a strong hitter (to me), I stand only a step or two behind the baseline. Maybe we're really weak!

Your backswing looks short. Imagine if you could take it a bit farther back, you'd have even better power.
Consistent only if we are in the right position. It’s an edited video to show my fh with 1-3.
 

ballmachineguy

Hall of Fame
All right Knuckle Head Posse. More ridiculousness. How about learning an actual forehand?
Attempting to do ONE single thing takes care of the drop, flip, buttcap toward target, windshield wipe AND keeping racquet on hitting side.
Just keep all of these ideas in the blender and get nowhere. It’s entertaining.
#10minuteforehandisreal
 

10sbeast888

Hall of Fame
All right Knuckle Head Posse. More ridiculousness. How about learning an actual forehand?
Attempting to do ONE single thing takes care of the drop, flip, buttcap toward target, windshield wipe AND keeping racquet on hitting side.
Just keep all of these ideas in the blender and get nowhere. It’s entertaining.
#10minuteforehandisreal

the wii coach is dying to join the action.

show us.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
All right Knuckle Head Posse. More ridiculousness. How about learning an actual forehand?
Attempting to do ONE single thing takes care of the drop, flip, buttcap toward target, windshield wipe AND keeping racquet on hitting side.
Just keep all of these ideas in the blender and get nowhere. It’s entertaining.
#10minuteforehandisreal
Dragy and I and millions of other people around the world are waiting for your groundbreaking 10 min forehand video!
 

ballmachineguy

Hall of Fame
I have a 5-min fh for sale 3 payments of $19.99

if you order now, you get a bridge for free.
Answer this. If it takes decades for you guys to figure it out, what sort of computer algorithm must have been necessary to come up with this infinitely complex stroke? Have you ever considered that due to larger head sizes someone just took a different approach to the swing and what we see on the ATP tour is the result?
I can promise the YouTube teachers are only telling you the positions they see the racquet taking.

#10minuteforehandisreal
 
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user92626

G.O.A.T.
Yeah, pretty much. The key is let it happen as he says, not make it happen.
You're not having #2, ensuring a good back swing.

This may explain how your Fh looks stunt / short.

Good things don't automatically happen. They need to be created and nurtured. No?
 
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