Customization help

[Arjuntino]

I've been having a lot of trouble customizing my rackets.
I have 1 stick that I really like and can't make the others hit like it. It seems really sensitive to lead placement.

If I move the tape 1 string up or down, it really affects the snap/topspin/drive of the stroke.

Not sure if I'm going crazy, or rackets are that sensitive.



Some more details:
- they are head youtek ig radicals (tgk 260.4)
- leather grip
-2 grams (technifiber 2g strips) at 3 and 9.

I just have a scale. But on my home made balance tester, the balance is ~the same.

The main racket weighs in at 344g.

The other one is at 340g with the same setup

*edit. 340 and 344. They are the same frames

 

[naturalexponent]

The main racket weighs in at 244g.

The other one is at 240g with the same setup

should these say 344 and 340?

 

[badmice2]

Are they 2 different rackets you’re trying to match spec?

Unless you’re match like-for-like rackets, matching spec won’t match feel.

 

[esgee48]

I assume these are the same frames. Matching racquets vs matching frames are two very different options. Strung specs are sensitive to the mass of the strings. Ideally, you want to match frames and then put the same string in both. You should be matching up mass, balance point, swing weight and if possible twist weight. I am also a proponent of MgR/I ratio tho I am not at 21, but around 20.8. Find someone who can measure SW because your description of moving lead tape a cm makes or breaks your swing, implies SW or MgR/I is not ideal for your body.

 

[Arjuntino]

should these say 344 and 340?

Yes, I edited it! Thanks

 

[Arjuntino]

Are they 2 different rackets you’re trying to match spec?

Unless you’re match like-for-like rackets, matching spec won’t match feel.

They are the same frames.

Head youtek radical pros.

That's why I'm so confused. Why it they feel so different with very minor adjustments .

 

[Arjuntino]

I assume these are the same frames. Matching racquets vs matching frames are two very different options. Strung specs are sensitive to the mass of the strings. Ideally, you want to match frames and then put the same string in both. You should be matching up mass, balance point, swing weight and if possible twist weight. I am also a proponent of MgR/I ratio tho I am not at 21, but around 20.8. Find someone who can measure SW because your description of moving lead tape a cm makes or breaks your swing, implies SW or MgR/I is not ideal for your body.

Yes, same frames. I'll look into MgR/I. Hadn't heard of it before.

By not ideal, does that mean too heavy, or just the swing weights aren't matching between the frames?

 

[Power Player]

You really, really, really need to get an accurate swingweight in order to match frames properly. It's pretty much a must.

Not sure if you live in the US but if so, plus you have a Iphone, a Briffidi is a great little investment.

 

[HitMoreBHs]

You really, really, really need to get an accurate swingweight in order to match frames properly. It's pretty much a must.

Not sure if you live in the US but if so, plus you have a Iphone, a Briffidi is a great little investment.

Fixed it for you!

The Briffidi SW1 is a great investment anywhere! And it works with both iPhones and Android phones. Even with shipping costs and import tax for those of us outwith the US, it’s still a better bang for the buck than any mainstream manufacturer swingweight machine.

 

[Power Player]

Fixed it for you!

The Briffidi SW1 is a great investment anywhere! And it works with both iPhones and Android phones. Even with shipping costs and import tax for those of us outwith the US, it’s still a better bang for the buck than any mainstream manufacturer swingweight machine.

I didn’t know it worked with androids. Awesome. And for a while he was not able to ship anywhere.

Well now there are no excuses to not get one. Lol!

 

[badmice2]

They are the same frames.

Head youtek radical pros.

That's why I'm so confused. Why it they feel so different with very minor adjustments .

What specifically is different between them? Hard to tell with just numbers and spec.

 

[Arjuntino]

I would describe it as:
For racket 1:
The racket I like has the right balance or flatness and plow through, especially for backhands.

Racket 2:

With the same adjustments, the top half of the face string bed, feels a little dead on flat shots. The ball just dies.
In general, it produces more topspin/higher launch angle with the same forehand stroke, and it feels like it moves up earlier (in terms of the plow through).
For serves, and backhand the timing is off, I get to the ball early.

For racket 2, if I add 2 additional grams at 3 and 9, it becomes a bazooka, and just launches the balls all over the place.

If I shift the tape up 1 cross, the feedback feels harsher/stiffer. Whereas on racket 1, it feels really smooth through like hot knife through butter.


My hypothesis is it has something to do with the flexible points on the racket. Like for the head flex points.

 

[Arjuntino]

Fixed it for you!

The Briffidi SW1 is a great investment anywhere! And it works with both iPhones and Android phones. Even with shipping costs and import tax for those of us outwith the US, it’s still a better bang for the buck than any mainstream manufacturer swingweight machine.

Thank you for sharing this.
I am very close to getting this. I have several rackets to match, so this might be the way to go.

 

[brooksgbanks]

Thank you for sharing this.
I am very close to getting this. I have several rackets to match, so this might be the way to go.

Make sure to get the twistweight attachment and the BP1 (measures balance point to the tenth of a mm).

 

[Irvin]

I've been having a lot of trouble customizing my rackets.
I have 1 stick that I really like and can't make the others hit like it. It seems really sensitive to lead placement.

If I move the tape 1 string up or down, it really affects the snap/topspin/drive of the stroke.

Not sure if I'm going crazy, or rackets are that sensitive.



Some more details:
- they are head youtek ig radicals (tgk 260.4)
- leather grip
-2 grams (technifiber 2g strips) at 3 and 9.

I just have a scale. But on my home made balance tester, the balance is ~the same.

The main racket weighs in at 344g.

The other one is at 340g with the same setup

*edit. 340 and 344. They are the same frames

If all you have is scales and a balance tester all you can match is weight and balance dependent on how accurate you balance tester is. Your problem is there are an infinite number of ways to match balance. Just because you have 2 of the same racket does not mean you can match one to the other simply by adding weight.

EDIT: You identified the weights of the 2 rackets but you mentioned nothing about the balance except that they were about the same. About the same means they’re different but only you know the difference.

Let me give you an example. Let’s say the 340 g racket has a higher balance point than the 344 g racket. If you add 4 g at 3&9 the balance difference is now greater. You would be better off leaving your rackets alone.

 

[Arjuntino]

If all you have is scales and a balance tester all you can match is weight and balance dependent on how accurate you balance tester is. Your problem is there are an infinite number of ways to match balance. Just because you have 2 of the same racket does not mean you can match one to the other simply by adding weight.

EDIT: You identified the weights of the 2 rackets but you mentioned nothing about the balance except that they were about the same. About the same means they’re different but only you know the difference.

Let me give you an example. Let’s say the 340 g racket has a higher balance point than the 344 g racket. If you add 4 g at 3&9 the balance difference is now greater. You would be better off leaving your rackets alone.

That makes sense, i was runnignsome calculations in the tw university tester, and it seems it can be sensitive. I'm going to try out the swing weight tester.

 

[Irvin]

That makes sense, i was runnignsome calculations in the tw university tester, and it seems it can be sensitive. I'm going to try out the swing weight tester.

Do you have the weight and balance in cm for each racket? If you do mass times balance = torgue. Match your torques first. Here is how:

racket a 344 g 32.5 cm has 11,180 gcm torque

racket b 340 g 32.4 cm has 11,016 gcm torgue

Because there is a 4 g difference if you add 4 g the weight will be the same. Because there is a 160 gcm difference if you add the 4 g at (164/4) 41 cm from the butt you weight and balance will be matched perfectly.

You can actually play around with that 4 g and add more SW if you need it but you can’t add less SW and keep the weight and balance the same. I’d try matching only weight and balance first.

 

[veelium]

Howto measure swingweight decently well:

Do-It-Yourself Swingweight

Do-it-yourself method of determining your racquet's swingweight, perhaps the most important racquet spec.

twu.tennis-warehouse.com

Tool to calculate:

Tennis Racquet Swingweight Calculator

A tennis racquet customization tool that allows the user to manually measure the swingweight of his own racquet.

twu.tennis-warehouse.com

Customisation toolsheet:

Customization Worksheet Tool

A tennis racquet customization tool that allows the user to define the amounts and locations of lead weight to add to the racquet, and the tool then calculates the resulting weight, balance, swingweight, twistweight, plowthrough, and power.

twu.tennis-warehouse.com

If you manage to match all 3, it could be somewhat similar. Twistweight is a thing too but no clue how to calculate that at home without buying a machine.
Old head racquets can vary quite a bit in specs like SW and TW.

 

[BBender716]

You really, really, really need to get an accurate swingweight in order to match frames properly. It's pretty much a must.

Not sure if you live in the US but if so, plus you have a Iphone, a Briffidi is a great little investment.

Just bought a Briffidi and it's amazing. Picked out the racquets I felt comfortable with historically and found a very similar SW. Now I just target that sw for most racquets if they don't gel initially.

 

[Hnefi]

Thank you for sharing this.
I am very close to getting this. I have several rackets to match, so this might be the way to go.

A different viewpoint for you - personally, I'd suggest not overthinking customization.

I just matched two EZ98s on weight, balance and SW using the Swing Tool app. The only tools I needed were a kitchen scale, a rolling pin and measuring tape for a balance board, and a few chopsticks to hang the racquet from to measure it.

Even though the numbers are probably not exactly what would come out of an expensive SW machine or briffidi, that only matters if you are targeting an exact number. 99.99% of folks don't need that. If you get it within 1-2pts relative to each other using the hanging method or Swing tool, you'll be fine.

 

[badmice2]

I would describe it as:
For racket 1:
The racket I like has the right balance or flatness and plow through, especially for backhands.

Racket 2:

With the same adjustments, the top half of the face string bed, feels a little dead on flat shots. The ball just dies.
In general, it produces more topspin/higher launch angle with the same forehand stroke, and it feels like it moves up earlier (in terms of the plow through).
For serves, and backhand the timing is off, I get to the ball early.

For racket 2, if I add 2 additional grams at 3 and 9, it becomes a bazooka, and just launches the balls all over the place.

If I shift the tape up 1 cross, the feedback feels harsher/stiffer. Whereas on racket 1, it feels really smooth through like hot knife through butter.


My hypothesis is it has something to do with the flexible points on the racket. Like for the head flex points.

Are they strung the same? By the same person? Sounds more like a string job problem first than specs.

 

[Arjuntino]

Are they strung the same? By the same person? Sounds more like a string job problem first than specs.

Yes, they are strung mostly same. Have used a couple of different stringers. But I go through strings every 2-3 weeks (multi). It has been a problem for a while.
When I move the tape the racket, the feedback changes. I thunk it might have to do with the weight being concentrated on a small spot maybe.

 

[Arjuntino]

A different viewpoint for you - personally, I'd suggest not overthinking customization.

I just matched two EZ98s on weight, balance and SW using the Swing Tool app. The only tools I needed were a kitchen scale, a rolling pin and measuring tape for a balance board, and a few chopsticks to hang the racquet from to measure it.

Even though the numbers are probably not exactly what would come out of an expensive SW machine or briffidi, that only matters if you are targeting an exact number. 99.99% of folks don't need that. If you get it within 1-2pts relative to each other using the hanging method or Swing tool, you'll be fine.

That makes sense. I guess I would just need to know the relative swing weights to match them.
I'm going to try this too.

 

[MisterP]

Just got a Briffidi SW1 and a BP1. I had two unmatched Prince Textreme Tour 95s that I wanted to customize. I used the TWU customization calculator to help with weight placement. I’m really happy with the purchase. Well worth the investment imo.

 

[Arjuntino]

Random thought. If you have 2 of the same frame.
Racket 1: 4g at 3 and 9.
Racket 2: 4g at 10 and 2.
And suppose you use the technifibre 2g strips
If the sw, balance, twist weight are all the same.

How will the position of the lead tape/stress on the string bed affect the sweet spot?



Ps: Got my briffidi, waiting for the BB's.

 

[MisterP]

Random thought. If you have 2 of the same frame.
Racket 1: 4g at 3 and 9.
Racket 2: 4g at 10 and 2.
And suppose you use the technifibre 2g strips
If the sw, balance, twist weight are all the same.

How will the position of the lead tape/stress on the string bed affect the sweet spot?



Ps: Got my briffidi, waiting for the BB's.

I would think that if the balance and sw are the same that the weight distribution would be nearly identical as well.

Imperceptible differences to mortals, but for a TTW grandmaster… maybe.

 

[Arjuntino]

Update:
Have been experimenting with briffidi!
Rackets are "identical" as far as briffidi + kitchen scale can tell.

They still feel a little different.
Narrowed it down to 3 areas.

1) bad string job
2) difference in grip size (they are the same), but one defenitly feels smaller. Maybe I wrapped the replacement grip wrong. But the issue "feels" like it's in the strings.
3) non-visible structural frame damage.

One racket is mine and is >10 years old. The other is used from someone.

 

[veelium]

Update:
Have been experimenting with briffidi!
Rackets are "identical" as far as briffidi + kitchen scale can tell.

They still feel a little different.
Narrowed it down to 3 areas.

1) bad string job
2) difference in grip size (they are the same), but one defenitly feels smaller. Maybe I wrapped the replacement grip wrong. But the issue "feels" like it's in the strings.
3) non-visible structural frame damage.

One racket is mine and is >10 years old. The other is used from someone.

Do they have the same strings in them?

If you don't have the TW adapter for the briffidi, could be that.

 

[Arjuntino]

Do they have the same strings in them?

If you don't have the TW adapter for the briffidi, could be that.

Same strings!

Oh, I haven't heard of tw adapter, I'll look into it. But I am measuring everything with briffidi.

 

[Arjuntino]

Does the grip size have any effect on the perceived swing weight? I have been feeling that a smaller grip size makes it feel much lower.

 

[Zodd]

Does the grip size have any effect on the perceived swing weight? I have been feeling that a smaller grip size makes it feel much lower.

Different grip sizes will require different amount/volumes of material so there is a small difference but in most cases not significant enough unless the player is very in tune with the racquets. Often times sizing up a grip with a base/denser grip (especially if leather) you end up with a heavier overall weight) compared the bigger pallet you're trying to match so just take notice of this and be prepared to match the static weight between frames after you build up one of the grips.

Also regarding your racquets, two things:

1. If you have the time and interest, I suggest that next time your frames are due for restringning, cut the strings yourself and strip everything (removing grommets, grips and the pallets) down to the bare frame on both racquets. This way you can check and measure everything indedendently and most important check the frames thoroughly for any signs of remaining lead/weighting and/or signs of any small cracks or hairlines that could be the cause of the difference in response you describe.

2. Might be that one of your frames is a pro stock / different layup in the same mold - thus explaining the difference in response. Again only way to know for sure is to remove everything as stated above and check for lead anywhere on the frame and/or silicone in the handle. Also check also the frame code under the pallet. There are some very knowledgeable people here that might be able to tell only from pictures of your frames if you are willing to put some up but checking the code will let you know for sure.

Do both of your frames look identical?

 

[Arjuntino]

Different grip sizes will require different amount/volumes of material so there is a small difference but in most cases not significant enough unless the player is very in tune with the racquets. Often times sizing up a grip with a denser base grip (especially if leather) you end up with a heavier overall weight) compared the bigger pallet you're trying to match so just take notice of this if you decide build up one of the grips

Also regarding your racquets, two things:

1. If you have the time and interest, I suggest that next time your frames are due for restringning, cut the strings yourself and strip everything (removing grommets, grips and the pallets) down to the bare frame on both racquets. This way you can check and measure everything indedendently and most important check the frames thoroughly for any signs of remaining lead/weighting and/or signs of any small cracks or hairlines that could be the cause of the difference in response you describe. Doing this is also good practice for doing future modifications.

2. Might be that one of your frames is a pro stock or a different layup in the same mold - thus explaining the difference in response. Again only way to know for sure is to remove everything as stated above and check for lead anywhere on the frame and/or silicone in the handle. Also check also the frame code under the pallet. There are some very knowledgeable people here that might be able to tell only from pictures of your frames if you are willing to put some up but checking the code will let you know for sure.

Do both of your frames look identical?

They are all tgk 260.4 (head youtek ig radical pros).
Only one was originally mine, the rest were all used/accumulated over time.
I have done pallet swaps on some, and some are still stock. Some look like 3rd party non OEM 3d printed pallets.
Static, swing weight, and balance are the same within a couple percent.

In general, i have some L3 and some L4, all have a leather grip. But the L3 racket feels like its swing weight is less because in a forehand, it tends to pull up earlier rather than go through the ball more.
And dwell time seems different.


I guess that's where the question is stemming from.

Maybe I'm just grasping at straws or its mental, but i can defenitly tell which racket im using.

Perhaps the smaller diameter means I have to hold it differently, or the leverage from the wrist rotation is different?

For example, on one stick I have 2 grams at 3 and 2 at 9.
And for the racket in question, for the same specs, I have 1g at 12.
Maybe it becomes a polarity issue?

2g at 3 and 9 should effect the sweet spot differently than 1g at 12?

 

[Arjuntino]

Different grip sizes will require different amount/volumes of material so there is a small difference but in most cases not significant enough unless the player is very in tune with the racquets. Often times sizing up a grip with a base/denser grip (especially if leather) you end up with a heavier overall weight) compared the bigger pallet you're trying to match so just take notice of this and be prepared to match the static weight between frames after you build up one of the grips.

Also regarding your racquets, two things:

1. If you have the time and interest, I suggest that next time your frames are due for restringning, cut the strings yourself and strip everything (removing grommets, grips and the pallets) down to the bare frame on both racquets. This way you can check and measure everything indedendently and most important check the frames thoroughly for any signs of remaining lead/weighting and/or signs of any small cracks or hairlines that could be the cause of the difference in response you describe.

2. Might be that one of your frames is a pro stock / different layup in the same mold - thus explaining the difference in response. Again only way to know for sure is to remove everything as stated above and check for lead anywhere on the frame and/or silicone in the handle. Also check also the frame code under the pallet. There are some very knowledgeable people here that might be able to tell only from pictures of your frames if you are willing to put some up but checking the code will let you know for sure.

Do both of your frames look identical?

It very well could be minincracks or some structural damage. I got most of them used and have gradually been hoarding them over the past 10 years.

But stats wise they match. It would end up being a density/distribution of weight issue maybe?
Like how a a localized 2 grams affects the sweet spot, or racket polarity, or stability/ twist weight.

 

[Zodd]

It very well could be minincracks or some structural damage. I got most of them used and have gradually been hoarding them over the past 10 years.

But stats wise they match. It would end up being a density/distribution of weight issue maybe?
Like how a a localized 2 grams affects the sweet spot, or racket polarity, or stability/ twist weight.

In general for any material, a degradation in structural integrity will of course alter response / propagation of vibrations but if you don't see any signs of cracks anywhere this is not the issue. Also saw that you checked the frames so you know that they are identical codes/versions.

Perhaps the smaller diameter means I have to hold it differently, or the leverage from the wrist rotation is different?

Yes, so make sure you find your optimal grip size and get your grips are as near to identical as possible.

IME what grip size influences most is how hard I grip the racquet which directly influences the amount of tension in hand and arm. Too small a grip leads me to subconciously grip tighter than optimal (in order to *manufacture* a more solid feel at contact) but only increases arm and hand tension leading to a shortened and tighter swing. This results in less than optimal contact - often making contact higher up in the head - and with the overall feeling of not hitting cleanly. Fatique and risk of injury also increases.

The correct/comfortable grip size let's me grip with just the right amount of tension thus allowing me to hit out correctly.

For example, on one stick I have 2 grams at 3 and 2 at 9.
And for the racket in question, for the same specs, I have 1g at 12.
Maybe it becomes a polarity issue?

2g at 3 and 9 should effect the sweet spot differently than 1g at 12?

This might be the explanation for the difference you experience. Weight at 3/9 and 12 will feel different even w matched or close SWs. 3/9 has a much lesser impact on SW (compare to 12) and maximizes twist weight (resistance to twisting) making the racquet feel more stable on off center shots. Weight at 12 maximizes SW and moves the sweet spot higher up in the stringbed but has no impact on twist weight.

Which frame feels the best to you - the one w 3/9 or 12?

 

[Arjuntino]

In general for any material, a degradation in structural integrity will of course alter response / propagation of vibrations but if you don't see any signs of cracks anywhere this is not the issue. Also saw that you checked the frames so you know that they are identical codes/versions.



Yes, so make sure you find your optimal grip size and get your grips are as near to identical as possible.

IME what grip size influences most is how hard I grip the racquet which directly influences the amount of tension in hand and arm. Too small a grip leads me to subconciously grip tighter than optimal (in order to *manufacture* a more solid feel at contact) but only increases arm and hand tension leading to a shortened and tighter swing. This results in less than optimal contact - often making contact higher up in the head - and with the overall feeling of not hitting cleanly. Fatique and risk of injury also increases.

The correct/comfortable grip size let's me grip with just the right amount of tension thus allowing me to hit out correctly.



This might be the explanation for the difference you experience. Weight at 3/9 and 12 will feel different even w matched or close SWs. 3/9 has a much lesser impact on SW (compare to 12) and maximizes twist weight (resistance to twisting) making the racquet feel more stable on off center shots. Weight at 12 maximizes SW and moves the sweet spot higher up in the stringbed but has no impact on twist weight.

Which frame feels the best to you - the one w 3/9 or 12?

I like the 3 and 9 frame.
More stability on ball contact. I think it feels more comfortable/ similar with the extra weight than if it is matched.