Customized extension lead to huge weight gain

I had my Völkl V-Cell 8 300g extended by an inch by a MRT. Turned out when the grips were added the frame weight out at 342 grams. Completely different racquet. I thought that the customized lengths would add 5 to 10 grams not 34 grams. At any rate, anyone else have experimented as well adding length and getting a heftier racquet?
 

drak

Hall of Fame
You should have asked in advance about how much static weight increase was going to be, and your swingweight by length alone for a 1 inch extension increased about 40 pts
 

scotus

G.O.A.T.
I try to minimize the weight increase when I extend my racquets, but for a full-inch extension you should expect an increase of at least 20 grams.
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
You should have asked in advance about how much static weight increase was going to be, and your swingweight by length alone for a 1 inch extension increased about 40 pts
my gut says SW will increase but not as much as we may think. @BorisBecker1872 did you by chance get the SW from the MRT?
 
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Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
It most certainly will.
Speaking from experience here, I extend frames for clients all the time.
I’m well aware there will be a great increase in SW. all the racket that was there is still there and moved out 2.56 cm. That alone if there was no weight increase will raise the SW a lot. Raising the weight by 34 g will increase inertia in a racket. But I guessing the balance will drop a good deal too probably more than 2.56 cm. Balance is probably the biggest factor affecting SW.
 
I extended my racquet 1/2 inch and the swing weight increased significantly. I was not able to measure it. The overall weight increase was only about 11grams but the swing weight was increased enough that the racquet became sluggish and hard to swing. IMO, there is a big difference in the weight distribution of an extended racquet that started as a normal length and a manufactured extended length racquet. I dont mind an extended length racquet that started that way but will not extend a racquet myself again unless it was way too light to start with. Swinfweight would possibly need to start at under 290 if I am to consider extending a frame
 

Lefty78

Professional
I’m well aware there will be a great increase in SW.
Yes, but you suggested that the increase would be less than @drak suggested, which it will not.

Raising the weight by 34 g will increase inertia in a racket.
34g added in the butt of the racquet will only increase the rotational inertia which we measure in tennis (SW) by a couple units. Of course SW is an imperfect measurement, but it is what it is.

Balance is probably the biggest factor affecting SW.
SW = kg x cm^2. Balance is not a factor in that equation.

TBH though, your response reads like you just don't want to admit that you're wrong, and you're just trying to obfuscate the situation.
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
Yes, but you suggested that the increase would be less than @drak suggested, which it will not.
You read something I did not say. I’d guess the RW will go up at least (30*30*.034) 30 points. SW = RW + mr^2. If RW goes up 30.6 point the only thing left if mr^2. Mass (m) is +34 g then there is the distance (r) between the 10 cm axis and the balance point. That balance point makes a huge difference. The MRT added 34 g for a reason IMO. By adding that weight he probably dropped the balance point by a lot. I guess it would depend on where that weight was added and it it not all in the bottom 1”.
SW = kg x cm^2. Balance is not a factor in that equation.
Wrong I = mr^2
 
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Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
Let me try to explain what I meant by the SW increase may not be as much as we may think. Say your original balance point was 33 cm and the weight was 315 g. (SW = RW + mr^2) mr^2 then would be 23*23*.315 = 167. If you increase the length by adding 2.56 cm to the butt and 34 g the mr^2 value increases to 25.5*25.5*.349 = 227. So we may think the minimum increase would be 227-167 = 60 points not counting the increase in RW by adding 34 g over 33 cm from the balance point.
 
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TennisHound

Legend
I had my Völkl V-Cell 8 300g extended by an inch by a MRT. Turned out when the grips were added the frame weight out at 342 grams. Completely different racquet. I thought that the customized lengths would add 5 to 10 grams not 34 grams. At any rate, anyone else have experimented as well adding length and getting a heftier racquet?
Best racquet technician you’ll find is @Geoff on this board.
 
I dont profess to know all the calculations. However by lengthening the racquet at the handle you are pushing whatever mass there was to start with further away from the rotation point which will make it harder to swing (increased swingweight). This is without any increase in the weight but only length. Since you cannot decrease swingweight unless you cut the racquet, any weight addition to achieve this extra length will at best not change this increased SW much but will just make racquet a bit more head light. Making it more headlight wont wont decrease SW.
 

Lefty78

Professional
Best racquet technician you’ll find is @Geoff on this board.
The single most challenging part of becoming a good racquet tech is learning to work on handles. The ability to reproduce exact handle dimensions on any given racquet is not complicated, but it is difficult.
After that comes skills like extending racquets. @Irvin seems to think a MRT would want to add 34g to make a 1" extension, but the simple truth is that most MRT's don't have the skill set to make that sort of extension and keep it structurally integral without the huge weight gain. In fact, my clients are always asking to make extensions as light as possible to avoid the exact problems the OP is having.
Weight and balance is the easy part, even when one takes into account not only matching specs but also making the racquet play well.
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
I had my Völkl V-Cell 8 300g extended by an inch by a MRT. Turned out when the grips were added the frame weight out at 342 grams. Completely different racquet. I thought that the customized lengths would add 5 to 10 grams not 34 grams. At any rate, anyone else have experimented as well adding length and getting a heftier racquet?
It would be nice to know your old and new specs if you have them. My guess if the MRT should be able to give you the new specs at least.

Assuming you added 2.56 cm to your racket, as @princemidplus suggested with no weight, your balance point would move from 22 cm to 24.56 cm above your 10 cm SW axis (balance = 32 to 34.56.) Moving the balance point 1” out increases the SW 35 points ((.300*24.45*24.56)-(.300*22*22)). Problem is when you increase the racket length you must add weight and I assume it’s added in the lower portion of the handle. That being the case the weight added makes little difference in SW. The added weight make a big increase in RW, and at the same time lowers the balance, resulting in little change to SW. So it probably would not have made a huge difference in the playability if you added 10 or 40 g in the handle. I would assume your new SW is somewhere around 340 (TW spec says 315 strung.) The huge difference comes from extending the racket.
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
On my Angell racquet, which has removable pallets, I have extended it by simply peeling off the pallets and shifting them further down the shaft. I then re-secure pallets into the shifted position with some tightly wrapped thin transparent packing tape for constriction, which adds only a gram or two.
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
my clients are always asking to make extensions as light as possible to avoid the exact problems the OP is having.
Most of us would think adding 42 g (300-342 g) would make a lot of difference but it doesn’t if it’s added in the butt. I once played with a Wilson hammer 2.8 28” racket. It was way too light for me and the only way I could play with it was to add 1.5 oz (42 g) with fishing weights in the butt. I had already added weight to the SW up, then the 3 half oz sinkers made little difference in SW.
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
On my Angell racquet, which has removable pallets, I have extended it by simply peeling off the pallets and shifting them further down the shaft. I then re-secure pallets into the shifted position with some tightly wrapped thin transparent packing tape for constriction, which adds only a gram or two.
I believe you can buy Volkl pallets and they are longer than you need. I know the Head pallets are over 1” longer than you need.
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
Most of us would think adding 42 g (300-342 g) would make a lot of difference but it doesn’t if it’s added in the butt. I once played with a Wilson hammer 2.8 28” racket. It was way too light for me and the only way I could play with it was to add 1.5 oz (42 g) with fishing weights in the butt. I had already added weight to the SW up, then the 3 half oz sinkers made little difference in SW.
In other words, adding 42g made a difference!

But in the case of your Hammer, an improvement. In most cases it might be detrimental.
 
In other words, adding 42g made a difference!

But in the case of your Hammer, an improvement. In most cases it might be detrimental.
The 42g in the handle make the most difference to static weight which has a major effect on how the racquet feels when you strike the ball as it has a larger inertia when heavier. @Irvin already said he had increased the swingweight to his desired spec and then added 42g in the handle to increase static weight to what he prefers. By adding the 42g in the handle it does not change swingweight much but does change static weight and this inertia and stability and how heavy a ball you can hit or handle
 
It would be nice to know your old and new specs if you have them. My guess if the MRT should be able to give you the new specs at least.

Assuming you added 2.56 cm to your racket, as @princemidplus suggested with no weight, your balance point would move from 22 cm to 24.56 cm above your 10 cm SW axis (balance = 32 to 34.56.) Moving the balance point 1” out increases the SW 35 points ((.300*24.45*24.56)-(.300*22*22)). Problem is when you increase the racket length you must add weight and I assume it’s added in the lower portion of the handle. That being the case the weight added makes little difference in SW. The added weight make a big increase in RW, and at the same time lowers the balance, resulting in little change to SW. So it probably would not have made a huge difference in the playability if you added 10 or 40 g in the handle. I would assume your new SW is somewhere around 340 (TW spec says 315 strung.) The huge difference comes from extending the racket.
@Irvin. I totally agree. The main difference in from extending the racquet length.
 

TennisHound

Legend
The single most challenging part of becoming a good racquet tech is learning to work on handles. The ability to reproduce exact handle dimensions on any given racquet is not complicated, but it is difficult.
After that comes skills like extending racquets. @Irvin seems to think a MRT would want to add 34g to make a 1" extension, but the simple truth is that most MRT's don't have the skill set to make that sort of extension and keep it structurally integral without the huge weight gain. In fact, my clients are always asking to make extensions as light as possible to avoid the exact problems the OP is having.
Weight and balance is the easy part, even when one takes into account not only matching specs but also making the racquet play well.
Do you even know who I’m talking about? Dear lord
 

TennisHound

Legend
Given that I've managed Bosworth Tennis for the last decade or so, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about. Dear Lord.
Wow. Okay, you win. I’m sure no one else can even come close to that credibility.

I had @Geoff redo a molded grip on a racquet I had and it was amazing. The work looked better than stock.
 
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movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
My preference is to buy a pro stock XL that was made from a hairpin and not built up. Second-best would be to buy the hairpins myself - I'm thinking about doing that though it would be after the pandemic is over so I can find a service to take care of it.
 

Lefty78

Professional
Wow. Okay, you win. I’m sure no one else can even come close to that credibility.

I had @Geoff redo a molded grip on a racquet I had and it was amazing. The work looked better than stock.
Hey, sorry if I came across as a jerk. That's my bad, I shouldn't have gone there and I apologize.
These boards are just frustrating sometimes, and my frustration wasn't even with you. I don't usually spend as much time here as many of you, but when I do it seems like many people don't like to listen to reason. A little friendly advice always turns into a pissing match. And from what you've said, it sounds like Geoff knows what he's doing. If he's molding handles (and making the molds which is where the real work is) he's clearly got his act together.
 

TennisHound

Legend
Hey, sorry if I came across as a jerk. That's my bad, I shouldn't have gone there and I apologize.
These boards are just frustrating sometimes, and my frustration wasn't even with you. I don't usually spend as much time here as many of you, but when I do it seems like many people don't like to listen to reason. A little friendly advice always turns into a pissing match. And from what you've said, it sounds like Geoff knows what he's doing. If he's molding handles (and making the molds which is where the real work is) he's clearly got his act together.
I apologize too, I was a little jerky as well. I am amazed at the credibility of the people who are on these boards at times :)

The racquet I had fixed was a pro stock that the player had tried to customize by sanding down one side (I guess he was trying to make it fit his hand). Geoff was able to take that mold off and mold a brand new one (and cut the length down to 27” from 27.5).

You’re right though, the handle is very tricky to work on. I’ve had a store owner ness one if mine up so badly before that he just gave me a new racquet.
 
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It would be nice to know your old and new specs if you have them. My guess if the MRT should be able to give you the new specs at least.

Assuming you added 2.56 cm to your racket, as @princemidplus suggested with no weight, your balance point would move from 22 cm to 24.56 cm above your 10 cm SW axis (balance = 32 to 34.56.) Moving the balance point 1” out increases the SW 35 points ((.300*24.45*24.56)-(.300*22*22)). Problem is when you increase the racket length you must add weight and I assume it’s added in the lower portion of the handle. That being the case the weight added makes little difference in SW. The added weight make a big increase in RW, and at the same time lowers the balance, resulting in little change to SW. So it probably would not have made a huge difference in the playability if you added 10 or 40 g in the handle. I would assume your new SW is somewhere around 340 (TW spec says 315 strung.) The huge difference comes from extending the racket.
308g is the 27" weight. 342 is the 28" weight. Sorry don't have the strung balance numbers yet.
 

drak

Hall of Fame
the XTP butt caps extend about 1/2inch and weigh about 15 grams for an L2 and 17 grams for an L3 grip size per the ones I have - a normal buttcap weighs 9-11 grams per 3 or 4 different ones I just weighed for a 3/8 size. So lets say an avg XTP adds about 6-7 grams in handle weight. In extending rackets recent discussions over the past few yrs I believe correctly stress that only certain regular length frames are really good candidates for an extension of at least a 1/2 inch because if a racket is already too heavy or head heavy (not HL enough) the extension most often results in a frame that is simply has too much Swingweight for the vast majority of recreational players. Lighter (10.5-11.5oz) "player oriented" frames IMO with a significant HL beginning balance usually make the best candidates for an extension at least from my perspective. I also think softer flexing and not too powerful frames (for me 95-100 head size) are ideal candidates as power picks up significantly in 1/2 inch or more extensions. There are obviously exceptions but I think as a generalization this makes sense.
Besides extending a racket, adding too much weight to the handle will significantly alter how it feels/swings, the OP had 34 grams added to handle which IMO is a HUGE change (vs 6-7 grams for 1/2 inch XTP extender) to add to an already huge change with the added inch. IMO these changes are so drastic having the racket play anything like the original is highly unlikely IMO as I believe the OP stated..
In addition in my experience adding 1/4 to 1/2 inch is the sweetspot for frames 100sq in or less, over half inch works better IMO for 104 sq in or larger head sizes as where you hit the ball is usually closer to your hand in the larger head sizes, for me personally anything longer than 1/2 inch is simply to long.
 
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drak

Hall of Fame
308g is the 27" weight. 342 is the 28" weight. Sorry don't have the strung balance numbers yet.
BTW I am curious why you decided to go for what I consider a somewhat "drastic" extension of a full inch for a 100 sq in head size frame? I would have thought 1/2 inch was a very significant change.
 
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