Cycling: The Dirtiest Sport Of Them All

Look at the jerk on the left who's only concerned with "getting the shot" lol
dirty-dozen-01.jpg

'Dirty Dozen' bike race, Canton Aveune, Pittsburgh, PA
 
This years winner is probably the only one you can be sure of being clean, it's good to see you can win the right way.
 
Cindysphinx said:
Bump!

This would be an excellent time for an "I told you so."
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Choosing not to answer is not a crime, nor is it an admission of guilt. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.
Sorry those are my western sensibilities, I know this is a multicultural board and I know there are all types of justice from over the world.
 
Sander001 said:
Choosing not to answer is not a crime, nor is it an admission of guilt. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.
Sorry those are my western sensibilities, I know this is a multicultural board and I know there are all types of justice from over the world.
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I'm sorry to be the one to break it to ya, but he is Ever So Guilty.

Do you think that if Federer were wrongfully accused of doping that he would meekly walk away from his status as GOAT? You think he would for all time allow all he has achieved be taken away? You think he would allow himself to be declared the biggest, baddest doper the planet has ever seen?

Nope. A truly innocent athlete with the resources of a Federer or an Armstrong would fight something like this *to the grave.*

Armstrong has made the cold calculation to cut his losses. He would rather cling to a scintilla of public doubt rather than confess all -- or fight if there is really something to fight about.

Will the last person who believes Armstrong was clean please turn out the lights?
 
Cindysphinx said:
I always wonder whether Carl Lewis was clean. I kind of want to believe he was.
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In another thread here at TT somebody said that Lewis failed several doping tests. I don't know, or care. To me, he looks like he's on drugs. (I use the Monty Python method: How do you know she's a witch? She looks like one!)
 
Cindysphinx said:
I'm sorry to be the one to break it to ya, but he is Ever So Guilty.

Do you think that if Federer were wrongfully accused of doping that he would meekly walk away from his status as GOAT? You think he would for all time allow all he has achieved be taken away? You think he would allow himself to be declared the biggest, baddest doper the planet has ever seen?

Nope. A truly innocent athlete with the resources of a Federer or an Armstrong would fight something like this *to the grave.*

Armstrong has made the cold calculation to cut his losses. He would rather cling to a scintilla of public doubt rather than confess all -- or fight if there is really something to fight about.

Will the last person who believes Armstrong was clean please turn out the lights?
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There are so many "what ifs" I could toss at you, you'd be writing a thesis.
It's not about whether you think he's guilty, it's about due process and proving one's guilt. What your opinion is, what my opinion is, is missing the point by 4.4 light years.
But once again, these are western principles.
"We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches; it's all ancient history. And then, before you can blink an eye, suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
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West Coast Ace said:
No offense maverick, you make a lot of reasonable posts on this board and are one of the more solid members, but this is ridiculous. Please back up with data and/or a lot more clarification as to exactly what they're taking (I don't expect you to name names - but go ahead if you feel like it) - or withdraw.

Back to Cycling. When I heard years ago that a) it's really a team event - the top guy on each team is helped by his teammates; b) they would slow down/stop when one of the top guys got a flat so he could get back in the race, I didn't take it seriously as a real sport. Sure, I'm impressed someone can cover that much distance on a bike - but as far as competition, it's a joke. Then throw in the rampant drug use and I have no interest to follow it.
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What about the wonderful scenery?
 
Sander001 said:
There are so many "what ifs" I could toss at you, you'd be writing a thesis.
It's not about whether you think he's guilty, it's about due process and proving one's guilt. What your opinion is, what my opinion is, is missing the point by 4.4 light years.
But once again, these are western principles.
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You cannot walk away from due process and then complain you were denied due process.
 
He never failed a drug test and has fought this for years. Enough IS enough. It's a witch hunt with no hard evidence at this point.

Even if he did do it, he beat a bunch of other dopers to win. The playing field was level.

Its a shame so many athletes want to cheat to win. Whether Lance did it or not.
 
Its not a crime nor an admission of guilt.

Choosing not to answer allows the adverse findings of fact to stand and for punishment to be handed out on the findings uncontested.

As an athlete he's subject to drug control agencies.

This has nothing to do with the criminal law from where your concepts derive.

Its got to do with natural justice: he's been apprised of the case against him and given an opportunity to rebut it and he refused.

He's been accorded natural justice.



Sander001 said:
Choosing not to answer is not a crime, nor is it an admission of guilt. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.
Sorry those are my western sensibilities, I know this is a multicultural board and I know there are all types of justice from over the world.
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'Innocent until proven guilty' is a concept invented by an English barrister in the late eighteenth century, from memory, and it is not really a concept on which any legal system is based.

There is no legal concept of innocence, you're the accused and you're either guilty or not guilty of a crime.

All the concept really means is that the onus of proof is on the prosecution to prove its case, the defence merely has to cast doubt.
 
Lance is banking on the fact that there are a few people here and there who will believe him.

The man lacks integrity. I would never give a penny to his foundation.

I do have one live strong shirt that i received as a gift. It is a cool shirt. Fortunately the logo is tiny so i can keep wearing it.
 
Cindysphinx said:
Lance is banking on the fact that there are a few people here and there who will believe him.
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Perhaps. I, for one, neither believe nor disbelieve him.

Cindysphinx said:
The man lacks integrity.
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Perhaps. Again, I don't know. But he did, supposedly, nail an Olsen twin. I have to respect him for that. :)

Cindysphinx said:
I would never give a penny to his foundation.
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Nor would I. But then I wouldn't give a nickel to the American Cancer Society if they said that's all they needed to develop a cure.
 
wow pretty good stuff here. If we look at the common sense side of doping without getting into it to much as some of the info I have seen on this. Your heart is a muscle think of how much harder it has to work to move all the extra blood than take account the greuling event that the tour is. Lucky that the heart muscle does not just pop. Far more dangerous than most PED'S.

I also saw someone posted that it is good that bodybuilding and boxing have stayed clean. Wow that blows my mind bodybuilding is the worst sport for ped's by far. Boxing is just a total waste never watch it.

I would say we could make a few of the least toxic ped'd legal than make it so the people who want to use it could stick to the legal stuff so they don't do to much damage to themselves.
 
West Coast Ace said:
No, but I think some of the lions on Animal Planet have been juicing (282 on DirecTV). The zebras haven't stood a chance lately. They're talking about flying in Victor Conte...
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:mrgreen: One might wonder what the general water-cooler talk among zebras (not to mention wildebeasts) is about Conte. Maybe they're just too busy dodging lions (and/or crocodiles).

By the way, thanks for the DTV channel references. I don't currently subscribe to that service, but perhaps it will be useful in the future.
 
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Setmatch45 said:
wow pretty good stuff here. If we look at the common sense side of doping without getting into it to much as some of the info I have seen on this. Your heart is a muscle think of how much harder it has to work to move all the extra blood than take account the greuling event that the tour is. Lucky that the heart muscle does not just pop. Far more dangerous than most PED'S.

I also saw someone posted that it is good that bodybuilding and boxing have stayed clean. Wow that blows my mind bodybuilding is the worst sport for ped's by far. Boxing is just a total waste never watch it.

I would say we could make a few of the least toxic ped'd legal than make it so the people who want to use it could stick to the legal stuff so they don't do to much damage to themselves.
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I think we should make them all legal. Might help the economy. People dying from abuse would open up job opportunities. Plus there would be more work for chemists without the risk of long term incarcerartion.
 
West Coast Ace said:
For the 1st 8 days of the majors we get to choose from 5 different matches. Pretty awesome.
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I'm currently using Comcast Cable. ESPN3 and ESPN2 do the same thing, I think. I'm so looking forward to the US OPEN. Very exciting. I'm rooting for the Fed.
 
As I was glancing through this discussion, I noticed someone expressing disbelief that an athlete could be "doped" without their knowledge. In the '70s many of the young women on the East German teams- especially the swim teams- were doped without their knowledge. If they became suspicious or refused to take the "supliments" they were simply dismissed from the team.

I assume that we are all more sophisticated these days.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/features/doping-for-gold/the-state-sponsored-doping-program/52/
 
Cindysphinx said:
I'm sorry to be the one to break it to ya, but he is Ever So Guilty.

Do you think that if Federer were wrongfully accused of doping that he would meekly walk away from his status as GOAT? You think he would for all time allow all he has achieved be taken away? You think he would allow himself to be declared the biggest, baddest doper the planet has ever seen?

Nope. A truly innocent athlete with the resources of a Federer or an Armstrong would fight something like this *to the grave.*

Armstrong has made the cold calculation to cut his losses. He would rather cling to a scintilla of public doubt rather than confess all -- or fight if there is really something to fight about.

Will the last person who believes Armstrong was clean please turn out the lights?
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I'm with Cindy on this one. If he was clean, a guy like Armstrong would not let it go. Something tells me that we have not seen the end of this. There will be more revelations.

Sander001 said:
Sorry those are my western sensibilities, I know this is a multicultural board and I know there are all types of justice from over the world.
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Your western sensibilities may be exactly what Armstrong's lawyers are banking on. It doesn't mean that you have to stop being an Armstrong fan. The fact that he beat the cancer and reached otherworldly levels of fitness is admirable enough without 7 Tours de France to go along with it.
 
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OrangeOne said:
Floyd was caught, properly caught, doping during the tour that he 'won'. His reputation is now dirt. He is pond scum. He now cannot make money from cycling, has no fame as a cyclist, and now seems to spout random stuff to grab a little fame every now and then.



How do you know the other guys are definitely doping? All of them?

How come Federer and Nadal win pretty much everything in tennis? They are the best at the game, and they surround themselves with the best.

I'm not saying Lance is 100% clean, it's just too hard to know. But to understand even a little about the tour is to know the following:

a. Lance geared his entire year around the tour. He effectively ignored the tour of spain and italy. This is like Federer never playing the Australian or the French (or playing them, in his grass-court shoes and with his grass-court tactics, just for training), and focusing the whole year on Wimbledon.

b. Lance assembled the best team money could buy. Cycling tours, for better or for worse, are team sports. I don't get why people find that abhorrent, it's just a fact. So many team sports are about buying the right players.

c. Lance was appropriately genetically gifted as an endurance cyclist - ridiculous aerobic capacity.

So you take one of the very best riders with amazing genetics, you give them the very best team every year, and they focus entirely on one race.

Not surprising he won some.
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ROFLMAO!

:lol::-D:)

I wonder where this apologist is now?

LMAO!
 
volleygirl said:
Its mindboggling isnt it? Perfect genetics? What hes genetically more likely to use PEDs than everyone else?
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Maybe it means he's genetically hardwired to handle more PEDs than the average cyclocross juicer? :-)

-Cycling is a spinning class with syringes and a landscape.

-Lance once ate Crow and will now have to eat some more crow.

-Have to think that the chain-smoking, pseudo-sophisticated neurotics at L'Equippe threw an impromptu "Lance Busted!" party and are now in full sprawl across each other's desks having celebratory sex with their respective faces...

...anyway, that's my take...your mileage may vary.. ; )

_________________
 
The whole Lance era of cycling and all its participients were a joke. That whole era should be flushed down the toilet like it didnt exist, and nobody from that era deserves to be even rated as a top 100 cyclist of all time. Lance even if he were clean was the most overrated cylicst in history anyway, a 1 trick pony who only excelled in 1 event (Tour de France), couldnt win jack all without the deepest team in cycling doing all the work for him, and in a weak era featuring none of the true talents of the sport seen past besides dopers. Even if he were clean I wouldnt rate him even top 10 all time.
 
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