Cyclone vs Cyclone Tour

temnik

Rookie
@g4driver - I strung one of my racquets with VCT16 yesterday at 54/52.

As I string with a drop-weight machine (Klippermate), VCT has this huge "give" when trying to find right amount of string slack for proper tension.

So in the end, I am not even sure how much accidental pre-stretching I ended doing - or how my racquet's tension would be comparable to a professional job. I just hope the tension will become more or less even throughout.

Do you have any tips on stringing VCT with a drop-weight?
 

jugheadfla

Rookie
Do you have any tips on stringing VCT with a drop-weight?
I strung up VCT 17g last week using an X-2 and you are right its very stretchy, almost like stringing a multi or syn gut. There really aren't any tips to give other than ratcheting until it almost sits on its own, then let it stretch again, then give it one more ratchet and you should be good. You should notice it won't stretch any more at that point, and then move on.

Just a note about VCT 17g, I have read that this string can be very lively, but that is not the experience I had. I strung it a 52lbs an it played a lot like regular VC 17g to me, a little to underpowered for my liking. My go to now is Cyclone 18g and I plan on trying VCT 18g as well as I do like how soft it plays.
 

Injured Again

Hall of Fame
I pulled out my racquet with the almost-seven hour Cyclone Tour after using Hyper-G Soft for the first 75 minutes of a hitting session. Hyper-G was one of the strings I strongly considered switching to before Silver 7 Tour, and to me Hyper-G Soft is basically an improved version of Hyper-G. I was kind of worried that I'd fall in love with Hyper-G Soft after having purchased 15 packs of Cyclone Tour. I guess fortunately it did not turn out that way. Even this well worn set of Cyclone Tour felt much more comfortable and powerful than HGS, with a higher launch angle and equal spin for 95% of the shots I hit. I'm more certain now that I made the right choice, and once the HGS test is over, will continue to use this racquet to see how long it will go before breaking.
 

ccmtennis

Rookie
The regular Cyclone (I've only tried black) is more muted and less powerful. It also feels soft but since it's less powerful you may have to end up swinging harder. I did find it more muted and less plasticky so I guess I preferred the feel of the regular Cyclone; I felt I could always swing out with it and get some great spin with the ball staying in. But again, the Tour clearly provided more power.
Well said, I agree with this esp about the different colors. I have used them all and I prefer fluoro orange the best as personal preference. I think the Black plays closest to the CT and yellow is in between both black and orange. Colors really make a difference in regular cyclone. The black is muted but also more lively and orange is the least lively with added feel. Tension loss with Tours iIMHO also appears to affect playability of the the CT vs C more to me so I have stayed with regular version
 

FIRETennis

Professional
Anyone hit Cyclone Tour side-by-side with Tourna Big Hitter Black 7? They both have similar characteristics on paper.
I remember hitting with each of these but it was too much time apart between them for a proper comparison.
I do recall that Cyclone Tour 16/1.30 lost tension very quickly but it was ridiculously comfortable, almost like a gut/poly. Tourna Big Hitter Black 7/1.20 was more crisp with maybe a bit more spin and better tension maintenance.
 

Kalin

Legend
Anyone hit Cyclone Tour side-by-side with Tourna Big Hitter Black 7? They both have similar characteristics on paper.
I remember hitting with each of these but it was too much time apart between them for a proper comparison.
I do recall that Cyclone Tour 16/1.30 lost tension very quickly but it was ridiculously comfortable, almost like a gut/poly. Tourna Big Hitter Black 7/1.20 was more crisp with maybe a bit more spin and better tension maintenance.
Take it with a yuuge grain of salt since it's been a long time since I've tried both but I remember finding the TBHB7 much stiffer (or you may say crisper) that what I was led to believe it would play like. It did give some pretty ridiculous spin especially when it was fresh. Based on that admittedly fading memory I think Cyclone Tour was softer. So my experience largely mimics yours minus the tension maintenance aspect. I don't remember which lasted longer.
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
@g4driver - I strung one of my racquets with VCT16 yesterday at 54/52.

As I string with a drop-weight machine (Klippermate), VCT has this huge "give" when trying to find right amount of string slack for proper tension.

So in the end, I am not even sure how much accidental pre-stretching I ended doing - or how my racquet's tension would be comparable to a professional job. I just hope the tension will become more or less even throughout.

Do you have any tips on stringing VCT with a drop-weight?

Sorry for the late reply. I'm sorry, I don't have any experience using a drop-weight stringer. I started with a Alpha Apex II and went to an Alpha Ghost. VCT is a soft poly so yes, it will stretch more than stiffer polys. I know stringing your own frames is important to most stringers.

My suggestion: if you have a local pro shop that you respect become a frequent customer and let the owner get to know you through several conversations. Once you establish rapport as a frequent customer with good people skills, and on your 3rd or 4th visit to the shop, ask if they need any part-time stringing help. Ask if they could use a part-time stringer a few hours a day, one or two days a week? If he doesn't need another stringer, ask if you could pay him his labor fee and string your frame on his machine. If the owner knows you as a customer and knows your name, you are much more likely to win their approval.

Demonstrate your stringing skills to him on your own frames as a "check-ride" (pilot speak = an evaluation from another experienced pilot watching from the jumpseat ) to demonstrate you are a good stringer and could string a client's frame. This way you can string your frame on their constant pull machine and pay him for the labor charge. Early on as a stringer, I got a local store to carry Solinco strings when the owner had never heard of Solinco strings. As we became friends, I steered clients to his store and then started stringing pro bono for him. No wages, I would just pop in and he was busy, I would string frames for him and his clients. Some days I strung for 4-6 hours, some days for 2 hours. In exchange for my free labor, he gave me an employee discount on all items. Win-Win. The shop closed after 6 years or so, but the experience was positive. A friend of mine who worked in the store opened another store after the original store owner moved back to Atlanta. Just another way to get your foot in the door to the world of stringing.
 

Injured Again

Hall of Fame
Just a quick question. has anyone done a harder, longer duration prestretch of Cyclone Tour and did that seem to help with tension loss?

I really like this string. My wrist has almost entirely healed since using it, but with better wrist health I've been swinging harder and tension loss has become an issue even though I'm breaking this string in around seven hours. By the fifth hour, tension loss is down 20% and it affects groundstrokes that I really go after to try to put away the ball. I'd be happy to have a good sixth hour and have it break in the seventh hour but it seems once tension drops more than about 16-18%, the control suffers. All I do is lean on the length of string with my body weight for about ten seconds to remove coil memory, and then I double pull on my lockout stringer.

I tried stringing it tighter but the tension loss is just greater. It all ends up at around the same tension at five or six hours with starting reference tensions within about 5% of each other, according to RacquetTune.
 

FIRETennis

Professional
The general line of thinking is that pre-stretching poly is not a good idea because it removes some of the elasticity from the string.

As discussed in How Tennis Strings Go Dead: Part 2:

Pre-stretching has a significant influence on energy return. Pre-stretching increases stiffness and energy return while decreasing deflection and dwell time. This is because the previous stretches realign the polymer chains in the axial direction, removing some of the viscous play normally evident in the unfolding and sliding of chains.

Although the decrease in energy return does not affect ball velocity much, it probably amplifies the effect of increasing friction between strings. Lateral movement of the mains is inhibited by the increased friction and the decreased energy available to overcome that friction. The combined effect is what players experience as the increased stiffness and decreased response of the string bed.
 

jmacdaununder2

Hall of Fame
Just a quick question. has anyone done a harder, longer duration prestretch of Cyclone Tour and did that seem to help with tension loss?

I really like this string. My wrist has almost entirely healed since using it, but with better wrist health I've been swinging harder and tension loss has become an issue even though I'm breaking this string in around seven hours. By the fifth hour, tension loss is down 20% and it affects groundstrokes that I really go after to try to put away the ball. I'd be happy to have a good sixth hour and have it break in the seventh hour but it seems once tension drops more than about 16-18%, the control suffers. All I do is lean on the length of string with my body weight for about ten seconds to remove coil memory, and then I double pull on my lockout stringer.

I tried stringing it tighter but the tension loss is just greater. It all ends up at around the same tension at five or six hours with starting reference tensions within about 5% of each other, according to RacquetTune.
I just mentioned on another thread that I find hybriding VCT with Yonex PTP or PTA crosses seems to help with acceptable playing life as a whole due to the less drastic tension loss of the Yonex strings. (YMMV.)
 

Injured Again

Hall of Fame
I just mentioned on another thread that I find hybriding VCT with Yonex PTP or PTA crosses seems to help with acceptable playing life as a whole due to the less drastic tension loss of the Yonex strings. (YMMV.)
My major problem is just that I'm too lazy to want to do a hybrid if I can avoid it. I'm kind of a resolute, one-piece stringer for that reason, and also that I've tried a few hybrids and they've always played worse than the same main string as a whole bed. I once had some leftovers from a reel and strung up Cyclone mains and Silver 7 Tour crosses, which didn't seem to have the same higher launch angle nor spin capability as a full bed of Cyclone but also didn't feel like the control I expected from the stiffer S7T was there either. I've tried S7T with SPPP crosses and though it was soft, there's something about the **way** it is soft that is different than a full bed of a soft poly like Cyclone Tour. It's almost like the S7T/SPPP combo is firm when hitting softly, but gets springy rather than crisp when hitting hard. I felt that same thing trying Firewire Boost - the stringbed doesn't react in the way I'm expecting. I'm thinking of trying Cyclone Tour with S7T crosses hoping that the S7T's better tension maintenance will help the Cyclone Tour. I think the other way round would be worse because I know I don't like the feel of crosses that are soft and don't seem to support the mains well when I'm swinging away.
 

blai212

Hall of Fame
I think VCT 16g with YPTP 18g/1.15mm might be solid hybrid. I love VCT 16g but only in the mains. For some reason, VCT 16g strings make the hoop feel HEAVIER like i’ve never felt before...had to reduce the amount of lead tape on the hoop to compensate as well as change out the crosses to a thin round soft copoly with good tension maintenance to help stabilize the VCT’s drop in tension. This setup honestly feels better than gut/poly AND provides the increased spin/durability of poly. I love it. I have tried the following as crosses: SPPP 1.18, revolve 1.25, PTP 1.20, RPM team/rough 1.25, polyfibre black venom rough 1.25mm, V-star 1.25mm and the list goes on and on...love them all. Next step is to try V-star 1.20/1.15/1.10

Also, I’ve tried s7t extensively in full bed, as mains with thin round poly, as cross with VCT 16g mains. I found full bed s7t to be a bit jarring on off center hits and my arm would feel it after numerous mishits. Shaped poly crosses w VCT 16g mains produce a sharp, jagged feel that my arm does not agree with. I think thin round (rough is ok). Best of luck
 
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My major problem is just that I'm too lazy to want to do a hybrid if I can avoid it. I'm kind of a resolute, one-piece stringer for that reason, and also that I've tried a few hybrids and they've always played worse than the same main string as a whole bed.
@Injured Again, when you say you are a "one-piece" stringer ... do you mean you string one piece? ... Or do you mean you string two piece with the same type of string?

Either way, are you pulling the Mains and Crosses at the same Ref. Tension? If you are, have you considered stringing them at different Ref. Tensions to see what impact that has on the tension loss and playability duration.

When I hear the term "Hybrid", it usually means a mix of strings in the string bed. But for me, it can also mean the same string but pulled at different tensions in different parts of the string bed. (I view string beds strung using Proportional Stringing methods as Hybrids.)
 

Mirko

New User
Has anyone played with VCT mains and VC cross?
I played some hours with VCT 16g and really like the feel, control and spin. It's a little bit to powerful for me.
Especially the feel of VCT is one of the best feel I have ever played with.... Really like it.
I will try it with VC cross and hope to reduce the power level and keep the same feel.
Has anyone try this combo?
 

Injured Again

Hall of Fame
@Injured Again, when you say you are a "one-piece" stringer ... do you mean you string one piece? ... Or do you mean you string two piece with the same type of string?

Either way, are you pulling the Mains and Crosses at the same Ref. Tension? If you are, have you considered stringing them at different Ref. Tensions to see what impact that has on the tension loss and playability duration.

When I hear the term "Hybrid", it usually means a mix of strings in the string bed. But for me, it can also mean the same string but pulled at different tensions in different parts of the string bed. (I view string beds strung using Proportional Stringing methods as Hybrids.)
Yeah, I string one piece preferentially. I do a light prestretch to remove coil memory and am too lazy to do it twice, and I figure I'm saving a couple of feet of string every time.

When I moved to the SW104 from the Overdrive 110, I lost two things that I wanted to get back: launch angle and sweetspot size. Through a long testing process, I found I could get both from thinner gauge strings, generally higher tension mains than crosses, and my own form of proportional string tension.

So for the Cyclone Tour, I'm using the 1.20/18 gauge, and I string the center eight mains at 53 pounds, decreasing evenly to the outer mains which are at 39 pounds. I string the center five crosses at 47 pounds, and the top and bottom crosses are at 34 pounds. The approximately 12% differential in main/cross tension seems to be about the maximum I can use before the response starts to feel inconsistent to me. If I were to use 55/45, the response when hitting more softly may feel okay but when I swing hard, there feels like a non-linearity as the more highly tensioned mains are working in a different part of their stress/strain curve than the cross strings. That 12% is just a rough rule of thumb for me, based on the string itself, the gauge I'm using, and the shape of the hoop. The SW104 is pretty round and a racquet that has a more elongated shape could probably support a larger differential, as could thicker strings.

The proportional tensioning I use makes mis-hits more forgiving and so even though there is still the shock of not hitting it in the center, the ball reacts more similarly to a larger racquet with a larger sweetspot in that it goes in the direction I'm aiming and with more ball speed than if I were to use the same tension across the strings. The biggest benefit I've seen are shots that I can barely reach and hit high on the stringbed. With the low cross tensions up there, I have a much better chance of getting enough oomph on the ball to get it back into the court and at least make my opponent hit one more shot.

I'm just about notched through with my second stringjob of Cyclone Tour so I'm open to suggestions. I was thinking about prestretching the heck out of it and trying it again. I don't want to go any tighter because I think that will cut down the durability shorter than the seven hours I'm getting out of it. I don't want to go thicker because the launch angle of Cyclone Tour is a hair bit lower than I previously had and I really don't want it any lower. Possibly if I can keep my wrist healthy, I can go back to some stiffer string at lower tension like I was using before but that's not in the cards right now.
 

Happi

Professional
Yeah, I string one piece preferentially. I do a light prestretch to remove coil memory and am too lazy to do it twice, and I figure I'm saving a couple of feet of string every time.

When I moved to the SW104 from the Overdrive 110, I lost two things that I wanted to get back: launch angle and sweetspot size. Through a long testing process, I found I could get both from thinner gauge strings, generally higher tension mains than crosses, and my own form of proportional string tension.

So for the Cyclone Tour, I'm using the 1.20/18 gauge, and I string the center eight mains at 53 pounds, decreasing evenly to the outer mains which are at 39 pounds. I string the center five crosses at 47 pounds, and the top and bottom crosses are at 34 pounds. The approximately 12% differential in main/cross tension seems to be about the maximum I can use before the response starts to feel inconsistent to me. If I were to use 55/45, the response when hitting more softly may feel okay but when I swing hard, there feels like a non-linearity as the more highly tensioned mains are working in a different part of their stress/strain curve than the cross strings. That 12% is just a rough rule of thumb for me, based on the string itself, the gauge I'm using, and the shape of the hoop. The SW104 is pretty round and a racquet that has a more elongated shape could probably support a larger differential, as could thicker strings.

The proportional tensioning I use makes mis-hits more forgiving and so even though there is still the shock of not hitting it in the center, the ball reacts more similarly to a larger racquet with a larger sweetspot in that it goes in the direction I'm aiming and with more ball speed than if I were to use the same tension across the strings. The biggest benefit I've seen are shots that I can barely reach and hit high on the stringbed. With the low cross tensions up there, I have a much better chance of getting enough oomph on the ball to get it back into the court and at least make my opponent hit one more shot.

I'm just about notched through with my second stringjob of Cyclone Tour so I'm open to suggestions. I was thinking about prestretching the heck out of it and trying it again. I don't want to go any tighter because I think that will cut down the durability shorter than the seven hours I'm getting out of it. I don't want to go thicker because the launch angle of Cyclone Tour is a hair bit lower than I previously had and I really don't want it any lower. Possibly if I can keep my wrist healthy, I can go back to some stiffer string at lower tension like I was using before but that's not in the cards right now.
Have you ever tried Sergetti stringing, that is the Rols Royce of proportional stringing ?
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
Has anyone played with VCT mains and VC cross?
I played some hours with VCT 16g and really like the feel, control and spin. It's a little bit to powerful for me.
Especially the feel of VCT is one of the best feel I have ever played with.... Really like it.
I will try it with VC cross and hope to reduce the power level and keep the same feel.
Has anyone try this combo?
Curious what frame and tension did you string the VCT at? I string VCT higher than most polys and personally use it at 56M/54X. Most of my 4.0/4.5/5.0 male clients string it in low to mid 50s
 

Injured Again

Hall of Fame
Have you ever tried Sergetti stringing, that is the Rols Royce of proportional stringing ?
I haven't, but I've read enough about it to be curious but not enough to have actually gotten off my lazy butt to try it. The impression I have is that some people think it works great, and others don't feel much difference, without a whole lot of people in the middle. I think the one problem I have is I have no idea how to give them a main and cross tension that would replicate my current stringbed if I were to use the same tensions across each of the mains and across each of the crosses. So I'd either have to string consistent tensions over a couple of stringbeds to find that comparable tension, or I'd be guessing and the Sergetti tensions would be off and I couldn't compensate by just going up or down a consistent amount for each string.

Have you tried it? If so, what did you think?
 

Mirko

New User
Curious what frame and tension did you string the VCT at? I string VCT higher than most polys and personally use it at 56M/54X. Most of my 4.0/4.5/5.0 male clients string it in low to mid 50s
I put VCT in gravity mp (with some added weight at the handle 9gramm) at my standard poly tennsion for this frame 48/45 lbs.
 

Happi

Professional
I haven't, but I've read enough about it to be curious but not enough to have actually gotten off my lazy butt to try it. The impression I have is that some people think it works great, and others don't feel much difference, without a whole lot of people in the middle. I think the one problem I have is I have no idea how to give them a main and cross tension that would replicate my current stringbed if I were to use the same tensions across each of the mains and across each of the crosses. So I'd either have to string consistent tensions over a couple of stringbeds to find that comparable tension, or I'd be guessing and the Sergetti tensions would be off and I couldn't compensate by just going up or down a consistent amount for each string.

Have you tried it? If so, what did you think?
Yes I tried Sergetti stringing and can tell you that it really works, they divided all strings up in 5 groups (I think kind of stiffness rating) and if you get a tension sheet you can use the same sheet for other strings in the same group. Example VCT is in group 4 and so is GW, so a tension sheet for VCT will also work for GW.

I have several tension sheets, and I can really feel that the sweet spot is larger and strinbed softer.

If you have a fixed racquet, string and tension - I think one can really benefit from Sergetti stringing.

However a few thinks to consider:

- If you are testing different strings, hybrids and racquets, it will be way too expensive. I will suggest stringing your normal way.
- They do suggest 2 piece stringing, so it might not work for you.
- You need an electronic stringer to be more precise.
- My experience with tension, is that if you like a poly at 22 kg normal stringing, I would chose 20 kg for Sergetti stringing.
- In your case I would chose your the highest tension on mains and crosses and then go 1 kg lower. You can always interpolate numbers on Sergetti, PM me if you need to know how.
- If you are a prof stringer, they will give you a discount. If you play Angell racquets (witch I do) there is also a discount.
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
I put VCT in gravity mp (with some added weight at the handle 9gramm) at my standard poly tennsion for this frame 48/45 lbs.
Pretty sure your 48/45 tension is your problem. VCT doesn't play like a standard poly when strung in lower tensions. Watch and listen to the video review of it if you don't believe me. If you go to 1:09 in the video you will hear Andy's remarks about going up in tension a few pounds. @2:09 Chris mentions he went up by 4 lbs in every racquet he strung it in.


I doubt any TW TT poster has strung more frames or made more posts about this string on this forum than me. I have been using VCT 1.30mm for 8 years. I don't push it on players. I believe in letting players pick string without bias. I don't care if people use it, but I do think I understand how to string it to maximize it's playability. If I recommend a string to a player and they don't like it, I offer a 100% money-back guarantee on strings and labor. In the past eight years, I have strung hundreds of frames with it. In 2020, I have strung six reels of VCT 1.30mm already and two months to go. I string it for over 20+ 4.0 to 5.0 USTA rated men and some women and not one player uses it below 50 lbs. VCT 1.30mm is going to play with some trampoline effect at 48 to 45 pounds because it is one of the softest polys made.

Most players make an assumption you can just string every poly at a standard tension and that is just something I don't practice for my clients. I string HGS 1.25mm, VC 1.25mm, and TOB 1.25mm, lower in my frames than VCT 1.30mm. Why? Because they are all stiffer stringers even in a smaller gauge. Stringing stiffer strings at lower tensions works, but stringing a much softer poly like VCT with its high launch angle below 50 lbs has gotten repeated "I don't like it " from players who ask me to string it that low.

I would try bumping the tension up to something like 54/52. VCT plays well in 98 to 100 square tweener frames for 4.0 and 4.5 men in tensions like 57M/55X , 58M/54X, and 54M/52X. The lowest tension I use for VCT is 50 lbs for a 5.0C USTA player using a 374 gram Babolat Pure Control Tour (16x20 98square inch frame). He tried VCT at 45lbs and said it is too low. He's been using VCT for 5 years now.
 

Mirko

New User
Pretty sure your 48/45 tension is your problem. VCT doesn't play like a standard poly when strung in lower tensions. Watch and listen to the video review of it if you don't believe me. If you go to 1:09 in the video you will hear Andy's remarks about going up in tension a few pounds. @2:09 Chris mentions he went up by 4 lbs in every racquet he strung it in.


I doubt any TW TT poster has strung more frames or made more posts about this string on this forum than me. I have been using VCT 1.30mm for 8 years. I don't push it on players. I believe in letting players pick string without bias. I don't care if people use it, but I do think I understand how to string it to maximize it's playability. If I recommend a string to a player and they don't like it, I offer a 100% money-back guarantee on strings and labor. In the past eight years, I have strung hundreds of frames with it. In 2020, I have strung six reels of VCT 1.30mm already and two months to go. I string it for over 20+ 4.0 to 5.0 USTA rated men and some women and not one player uses it below 50 lbs. VCT 1.30mm is going to play with some trampoline effect at 48 to 45 pounds because it is one of the softest polys made.

Most players make an assumption you can just string every poly at a standard tension and that is just something I don't practice for my clients. I string HGS 1.25mm, VC 1.25mm, and TOB 1.25mm, lower in my frames than VCT 1.30mm. Why? Because they are all stiffer stringers even in a smaller gauge. Stringing stiffer strings at lower tensions works, but stringing a much softer poly like VCT with its high launch angle below 50 lbs has gotten repeated "I don't like it " from players who ask me to string it that low.

I would try bumping the tension up to something like 54/52. VCT plays well in 98 to 100 square tweener frames for 4.0 and 4.5 men in tensions like 57M/55X , 58M/54X, and 54M/52X. The lowest tension I use for VCT is 50 lbs for a 5.0C USTA player using a 374 gram Babolat Pure Control Tour (16x20 98square inch frame). He tried VCT at 45lbs and said it is too low. He's been using VCT for 5 years now.
Thanks for the info. Next time I will try it some lbs higher. I only hope not to lose some of the feel and playbility I got from it at the 48/45 lbs.
I also will try the normal Cyclone 1.30 at the same tension to see how it compare to the VCT.
I read a lot of reviews of both VC and VCT the last days.
VC seems to be also great string with a lot of control, spin and not so much power. May be I will not get the great fell I have with VCT. But I will find out.
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
I like VC in 1.25mm but can play with VC 1.3m. The 1.30mm VCT is still softer than 1.25mm VC and I sting VCT 1.30mm at 56M/54X in my own PA+ frames.

But I drop the VC 1.25mm down to 54M52X even though it is a thinner string.
 
Pretty sure your 48/45 tension is your problem. VCT doesn't play like a standard poly when strung in lower tensions. Watch and listen to the video review of it if you don't believe me. If you go to 1:09 in the video you will hear Andy's remarks about going up in tension a few pounds. @2:09 Chris mentions he went up by 4 lbs in every racquet he strung it in.


I doubt any TW TT poster has strung more frames or made more posts about this string on this forum than me. I have been using VCT 1.30mm for 8 years. I don't push it on players. I believe in letting players pick string without bias. I don't care if people use it, but I do think I understand how to string it to maximize it's playability. If I recommend a string to a player and they don't like it, I offer a 100% money-back guarantee on strings and labor. In the past eight years, I have strung hundreds of frames with it. In 2020, I have strung six reels of VCT 1.30mm already and two months to go. I string it for over 20+ 4.0 to 5.0 USTA rated men and some women and not one player uses it below 50 lbs. VCT 1.30mm is going to play with some trampoline effect at 48 to 45 pounds because it is one of the softest polys made.

Most players make an assumption you can just string every poly at a standard tension and that is just something I don't practice for my clients. I string HGS 1.25mm, VC 1.25mm, and TOB 1.25mm, lower in my frames than VCT 1.30mm. Why? Because they are all stiffer stringers even in a smaller gauge. Stringing stiffer strings at lower tensions works, but stringing a much softer poly like VCT with its high launch angle below 50 lbs has gotten repeated "I don't like it " from players who ask me to string it that low.

I would try bumping the tension up to something like 54/52. VCT plays well in 98 to 100 square tweener frames for 4.0 and 4.5 men in tensions like 57M/55X , 58M/54X, and 54M/52X. The lowest tension I use for VCT is 50 lbs for a 5.0C USTA player using a 374 gram Babolat Pure Control Tour (16x20 98square inch frame). He tried VCT at 45lbs and said it is too low. He's been using VCT for 5 years now.
How do you like it in smaller frames (Head LM Rad MP)?
 

blai212

Hall of Fame
@g4driver I string my yonex vcp97 310g with VCT 16g/SPPP 17L at 38/36 and i love it... effortless power/spin. I am a 4.5 player that likes to hit hard without having to swing a million miles an hour. As long as I hit the ball with the correct technique + racquet face orientation, the ball goes in with heavy spin/pace. I let all my friends try my frames and have gotten almost universal positive feedback. The powerful string setup combined with the control oriented vcp97 frame works well for me.
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
How do you like it in smaller frames (Head LM Rad MP)?
I have never hit with a Head LM Radical but that is with a 98 square inch frame or a 107 square inch frame. It comes in two versions. If you have a "smaller one", that is the 98 square inch one. Orange/Silver with Silver Ribcages on each side of the frame. I string plenty of VCT 1.30mm in 98 square inch frames for 4.5 and 5.0 USTA rating players.
 
I have never hit with a Head LM Radical but that is with a 98 square inch frame or a 107 square inch frame. It comes in two versions. If you have a "smaller one", that is the 98 square inch one. Orange/Silver with Silver Ribcages on each side of the frame. I string plenty of VCT 1.30mm in 98 square inch frames for 4.5 and 5.0 USTA rating players.
Yes, according to spec it's 98. However, I've read that because Head used different measuring protocols, it's closer to 95 sq. in. by today's standard method. Only thing in stock in the importer here in Argentina is a reel of VCT Red 1.30 mm. Price is decent, so I think I might just bight the bullet, but I've never tried it before so I'm a little hesitant.
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
@g4driver I string my yonex vcp97 310g with VCT 16g/SPPP 17L at 38/36 and i love it... effortless power/spin. I am a 4.5 player that likes to hit hard without having to swing a million miles an hour. As long as I hit the ball with the correct technique + racquet face orientation, the ball goes in with heavy spin/pace. I let all my friends try my frames and have gotten almost universal positive feedback. The powerful string setup combined with the control-oriented vcp97 frame works well for me.
I just don't have any clients who like VCT that low. I string some 4.5 players frames in the 40s. I have strung a few frames in the 30s. I just do what the client wants if they know what they want.

@Mirko mentioned he felt it was too powerful, therefore I suggested increasing the tension on the strings to dial in the power of VCT. For the large number of clients that use VCT1.30mm (I have over twenty 4.0/4.5/5.0 men using it), I was just stating none of those players it below 50 lbs. These players pretty much know the tensions they prefer unlike beginners so rarely do I have to suggest a tension to a player at the 4.5 / 5.0 level. The 4.0s ask more questions. The 4.5/5.0's are pretty clear what they want. Hope that helps clarify what I was trying to suggest to @Mirko
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
Yes, according to spec it's 98. However, I've read that because Head used different measuring protocols, it's closer to 95 sq. in. by today's standard method. Only thing in stock in the importer here in Argentina is a reel of VCT Red 1.30 mm. Price is decent, so I think I might just bight the bullet, but I've never tried it before so I'm a little hesitant.

If you can find a pack of it in red or anthracite, instead of a reel, I would suggest that. If you can't find a pack in VCT 1.30mm, send me a PM.
 

FIRETennis

Professional
If you can find a pack of it in red or anthracite, instead of a reel, I would suggest that. If you can't find a pack in VCT 1.30mm, send me a PM.
Is it true that the red plays different than the anthracite? A local reseller told me that ....
Did you get any feedback from clients about that or from your own testing?
 

Mirko

New User
I played today one hour with VC 1.30 strung at the same tension (48/45) like VCT. They are pretty much different strings.
The power of VC is perfect for me at that tension in my gravity mp. Control also was very good.
The only thing I missed was the touch. Drop and other touch shot with VC was something difficult for me.
Everything else was very good. Now I know why so many people like this string. It playes really well. I have to play some more hours to se how it wil go with my touch shots. That's the only thing i miss.
Flat serve was very predictable and with enough power. I hit 3 aces today against a player, where i didn't hit a ace in our last 3 matches. And today I hit 3 of them.
Till now:
VCT has more power, feel and may be easy spin then VC
VC has better control and lower power level then VCT
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
Is it true that the red plays different than the anthracite? A local reseller told me that ....
Did you get any feedback from clients about that or from your own testing?
I have been hitting with VCT 1.30mm in my frames since 2013, so 8 years now. Neither I nor any 4.0/4.5 or 5.0 client as ever found any discernable difference between the two colors. Most players prefer the anthracite color over the red color, but some players like the red strings. I use a 2016 PA+ and the red strings in it are just ugly. But I hit with red VCT in my frames this summer when I was down to my last reel of Anthracite and didn't want to use it in my frames as most guys like the Anthracite so I was using it for them.

The strings play identical to me and to other clients. One guy asks me to string one frame in red and one in anthracite to identify is two frames. I have strung six reels of VCT so far this year and just pulled the plastic off my last reel of Anthracite. Yep, about to place another order for more reels in the next day or two. Perhaps your local reseller is simply a much better player than all of my clients and can feel something they can't feel.

On a side note, my ride is Carmine Red with Anthracite HRE FF01 wheels. :)
 

FIRETennis

Professional
I have been hitting with VCT 1.30mm in my frames since 2013, so 8 years now. Neither I nor any 4.0/4.5 or 5.0 client as ever found any discernable difference between the two colors. Most players prefer the anthracite color over the red color, but some players like the red strings. I use a 2016 PA+ and the red strings in it are just ugly. But I hit with red VCT in my frames this summer when I was down to my last reel of Anthracite and didn't want to use it in my frames as most guys like the Anthracite so I was using it for them.

The strings play identical to me and to other clients. One guy asks me to string one frame in red and one in anthracite to identify is two frames. I have strung six reels of VCT so far this year and just pulled the plastic off my last reel of Anthracite. Yep, about to place another order for more reels in the next day or two. Perhaps your local reseller is simply a much better player than all of my clients and can feel something they can't feel.

On a side note, my ride is Carmine Red with Anthracite HRE FF01 wheels. :)
...or he wants to offload his extra anthracite reels :)
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
I will take four 1.30mm Anthracite Reels if he can beat $95 USD and ship to the US for less than $25 with DHL, UPS or FedEx. :)
I don't let the United States Postal Service touch my string orders. (n)
 
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jmacdaununder2

Hall of Fame
Yes, according to spec it's 98. However, I've read that because Head used different measuring protocols, it's closer to 95 sq. in. by today's standard method. Only thing in stock in the importer here in Argentina is a reel of VCT Red 1.30 mm. Price is decent, so I think I might just bight the bullet, but I've never tried it before so I'm a little hesitant.
It’s not ‘different measuring protocols‘ it’s bending the truth for marketing purposes, and it’s not unique to Head.
 

jmacdaununder2

Hall of Fame
I actually believe the anthracite ultimately seems to hold tension slightly better than the red, which perhaps gives the illusion that it’s a slightly stiffer/deader string, but the difference is far less than one would experience with balls, court surfaces and temperature etc. Ultimately they both bag out pretty quickly.
 

loosegroove

Hall of Fame
I will take four 1.30mm Anthracite Reels if he can beat $95 USD and ship to the US for less than $25 with DHL, UPS or FedEx. :)
I don't let the United States Postal Service touch my string orders. (n)
More like $89 ;). So what was your final word on Hyper G Soft vs VCT?
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
More like $89 ;). So what was your final word on Hyper G Soft vs VCT?
Thank you. The price is going north again so pulled the trigger on an order of three more reels tonight.

I am stringing up one of my frames with HGS/GW tomorrow am for a match Thursday night
 
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loosegroove

Hall of Fame
Thank you. The price is going north again so pulled the trigger on an order of three more reels tonight.

I am stringing up one of my frames with HGS/GW tomorrow am for a match Thursday night

So the final word is there's no final word? I should probably just order a set of VCT and HGS and test them side by side in identical rackets.
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
So the final word is there's no final word? I should probably just order a set of VCT and HGS and test them side by side in identical rackets.
I have used VCT for 8 years. Impossible for me to dethrone a string I have used for 8 years after a TW playtest in one frame. When I consider switching strings or frames long term, that I give a frame or string three months exclusive with no other contenders. I consider a playtest much like a date. There might be a second date, or they might not. Solinco Confidential didn't get a second date. HGS did.
 

Louis33

Semi-Pro
Played with 16 gauge VCT and unfortunately it was the worst string I ever played with due to the poor tension maintenance. I strung it in the mains at 53 lb with lynx tour crosses at 48 lb in a head graphene 360+ prestige mid. The string stretched quite a lot on a drop weight stringer.

Initial impression was that the stringbed felt soft and springy. I played alright with it the first 20 minutes but then during hard rallies I was missing long and had to compensate with changing my swing which caused unforced errors. I could feel the VCT losing tension quickly and after 60 minutes of trying to adjust I grabbed my other racquet with velocity/lynx tour strung at the same tensions and the performance was much better. Velocity holds tension considerably better than VCT and gives me the consistent controlled response I look for in strings. VCT mains had better spin but I would not trade that for all the other poor characteristics which I concluded were from the abysmal tension maintenance.

VCT I believe would be a good string for the player that does not hit as hard or a player looking to transition to a poly string. VCT would also be good for older players looking to prevent injury and add extra spin to their game. I felt the soft response was the best feature of this string. I tried VCT because of the great reviews it has received on here but unfortunately it was the exact opposite of what I am looking for in a tennis string.
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
Played with 16 gauge VCT and unfortunately, it was the worst string I ever played with due to the poor tension maintenance. I strung it in the mains at 53 lb with lynx tour crosses at 48 lb in a head graphene 360+ prestige mid. The string stretched quite a lot on a drop weight stringer.

The initial impression was that the stringbed felt soft and springy. I played alright with it the first 20 minutes but then during hard rallies I was missing long and had to compensate with changing my swing which caused unforced errors. I could feel the VCT losing tension quickly and after 60 minutes of trying to adjust I grabbed my other racquet with velocity/lynx tour strung at the same tensions and the performance was much better. Velocity holds tension considerably better than VCT and gives me the consistent controlled response I look for in strings. VCT mains had better spin but I would not trade that for all the other poor characteristics which I concluded were from the abysmal tension maintenance.

VCT I believe would be a good string for the player that does not hit as hard or a player looking to transition to a poly string. VCT would also be good for older players looking to prevent injury and add extra spin to their game. I felt the soft response was the best feature of this string. I tried VCT because of the great reviews it has received on here but unfortunately, it was the exact opposite of what I am looking for in a tennis string.
Curious what gauge you used and what frame? Is 44 older? :unsure: VCT isn't for everyone, and glad you found a string that better suits your game.

I string more 1.30mm Velocity than any string, but it certainly isn't a string I would string for hard-hitting players than break 1.30mm multis quickly. I string VCT 1.30mm for 20+ 4.0 to 5.0 men and don't think anyone would comment that any of them hit soft. If anyone on this board has ever seen Mike Millican, a 4.5C rated player hit, or Jayson Wingfield, a 4.0A (appealed down after his 4.5 bump up in Dec 2019), they would be considered two of the hardest-hitting players at their level. Going to disagree with your assessment that VCT can't be used by hard-hitting men. That's just oversimplifying a string that you don't like.

1.30mm Velocity snaps rather quickly in 16x19 frames for the 4.0/4.5/5.0 clients. A former division one collegiate player and USTA 5.0C rated player has been using VCT 1.30 for five years, along with multiple 4.5 players on this forum. @blai212 and @Injured Again are both 4.5USTA rating players using VCT. @blai212 uses a round smooth cross, SPPP with VCT mains. If you watched video of @Injured Again hitting, I don't think anyone would honestly state that he hits soft. Perhaps not has hard as a 21 to 35 year old 4.5, but certainly not soft. Plenty of videos on here showing his tennis game, and the HGS playtest is one of those threads.

Another 5.0C rated 44-year-old client used 1.30mm Velocity in his Pure Strike 16x19 frames but started using VCT 1.30mm because he was snapping Velocity 1.30mm too quickly, in about 8 hours.
 
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g4driver

Hall of Fame
@Louis33

Have you tried TierOne FireWire? Or Black Kiight with Ghostwire crosses? If not you might consider both of these. BK/GW seems suited for 5.0 and higher type players

Or perhaps Revolution, HG, HGS, or Confidential by Solinco?
 

Louis33

Semi-Pro
Curious what gauge you used and what frame? Is 44 older? :unsure: VCT isn't for everyone, and glad you found a string that better suits your game.

I string more 1.30mm Velocity than any string, but it certainly isn't a string I would string for hard-hitting players than break 1.30mm multis quickly. I string VCT 1.30mm for 20+ 4.0 to 5.0 men and don't think anyone would comment that any of them hit soft. If anyone on this board has ever seen Mike Millican, a 4.5C rated player hit, or Jayson Wingfield, a 4.0A (appealed down after his 4.5 bump up in Dec 2019), they would be considered two of the hardest-hitting players at their level. Going to disagree with your assessment that VCT can't be used by hard-hitting men. That's just oversimplifying a string that you don't like.

1.30mm Velocity snaps rather quickly in 16x19 frames for the 4.0/4.5/5.0 clients. A former division one collegiate player and USTA 5.0C rated player has been using VCT 1.30 for five years, along with multiple 4.5 players on this forum. @blai212 and @Injured Again are both 4.5USTA rating players using VCT. @blai212 uses a round smooth cross, SPPP with VCT mains. If you watched video of @Injured Again hitting, I don't think anyone would honestly state that he hits soft. Perhaps not has hard as a 21 to 35 year old 4.5, but certainly not soft. Plenty of videos on here showing his tennis game, and the HGS playtest is one of those threads.

Another 5.0C rated 44-year-old client used 1.30mm Velocity in his Pure Strike 16x19 frames but started using VCT 1.30mm because he was snapping Velocity 1.30mm too quickly, in about 8 hours.
Same frame and gauge for what was stated. Velocity 16g with lynx tour 17g. Yes 44 is an age to where the body does not heal as well compared to younger under the same circumstances and playing with a softer string such as VCT would be a good choice in my opinion.

I never said that it can’t be used by hard hitters. In my assessment I believe it would be good for those who do not hit as hard due to the characteristics of the string being soft and helping increase spin with its shape. Would you disagree?

Comparing a user with a pure strike to my racquet is not a fair comparison. I also use a larger differential of around 5-10 pounds to lower friction between mains and crosses. Do you string this differential for your client? I also apply a tennis lubricant after each session to keep the friction low on mains and crosses. Do you or your client do this?
 

Louis33

Semi-Pro
@Louis33

Have you tried TierOne FireWire? Or Black Kiight with Ghostwire crosses? If not you might consider both of these. BK/GW seems suited for 5.0 and higher type players

Or perhaps Revolution, HG, HGS, or Confidential by Solinco?
The only string I have used from your list is confidential and I enjoyed it. In a full bed lynx tour, max power, and confidential are my favorites and I like them around 47 pounds. I ordered a set of 1.27 ghostwire to try and wanted to try it in the mains with lynx tour or max power crosses but it seems better suited as a cross string.
 

g4driver

Hall of Fame
@Louis33

I didn't see the gauge of VCT or your frame listed in my first post with my questions. I was reading too quickly on a small iPhone 7, not a computer monitor like I am now typing from. If you like Confidential I suspect you would also like Hyper G, Firewire, and perhaps Revolution. I find Ghostwire's best use as a silk-smooth round poly to soften the stringbed, particularly with edged strings or Natural Gut. If you are looking for the string with the absolute best tension maintenance, that's Luxilion 4G but is extremely stiff. Even 4G Soft is stiffer than the other strings I have mentioned.

The largest string differential I have ever had requested by any client is 4 lbs. That player was bumped to 5.0 in Dec 2019 and has been using VCT 1.30mm for at least 4 years in APD frames. I have strung frames this summer for a current PAC 12 tennis player in his Wilson Pro Staff 97, and he uses no differential in his strings. For a former Clemson player about 24 years old now, with his eight Babolat Pure Drives, he also used one tension. Neither of those players requested tennis lubricant.

I could ask the PAC 12 players dad the next time I see him if he or any of his four sons ever used a tennis lubricant. They all played collegiate tennis and the dad is a 4.5 rated player in his mid-40s. I have never had any client request tennis string lubricant, including the 5.0 and 5.5 level men. Perhaps they apply one before and or after hitting. And for the record, I didn't compare a player with a Pure Strike to your racquet but merely stating the frame used by the player broke Velocity rather quickly. ;)
 

Injured Again

Hall of Fame
@Louis33 I'm using the 18 gauge/1.20 version of Cyclone Tour in my 18x19 SW104 and I went up 10% in tension from where I was string most of my other poly strings. According to RacquetTune, tension drops by a bit over 20% over the 7-8 hour life.

I hadn't tried Cyclone Tour until very recently because I had a bias against strings with greater tension loss due to the changes in playability over the string's lifetime. In my experience, Cyclone Tour has been quite a bit more immune to playability changes than other poly strings with the same amount of tension loss. And while the launch angle and consistency definitely changes more than a string like Silver 7 Tour, I haven't found it to be so much greater that it has been a problem near its end of life, nor an issue going from a Cyclone Tour stringbed that notched through and broke to one fresh off the stringer.

If you are hybriding, have you tried Silver 7 Tour in the mains paired with a softer cross? Also, since you mentioned Confidential, give Revolution a try. It's kind of a forgotten string in Solinco's lineup, but I found it to be crisp and consistent, with good comfort levels. It doesn't maintain tension as well as Hyper-G or Confidential but just like Cyclone Tour, can be strung a bit tighter so that as you play with it, it drops through that tension window where playability and response are consistent, without dropping below it until it's ready to break.

Good luck with the hunt.
 
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