D3 NCAA Championships

[LOBALOT]

I think the quality of a D1 recruit is just better. You rarely if ever hear of a top 30 junior player ever going D3. Now extend that to international top juniors as well and the gap becomes very clear. Don’t get me wrong. U of Chicago this year recruited a strong freshman class but none of them would see any playing time at a top 25 D1 program. The post above claimed that Case’s top of the lineup could hang with Michigan’s. That’s simply not the case and never will be

I think your math is not reflected by what we are seeing in recruiting. Certainly there are 30 big D1 schools and there are 8 spots per team so a measure of 30 top D1 players just doesn't add up.

So now expand the top list per year to 100 and all of a sudden you start to see that quite a few head D3 and then go to 150 (i.e. 1/4 of those top D1 lineups) and all of a sudden you see a good portion of the kids heading D3.

Boys' College Commitment Lists

www.tennisrecruiting.net

 

[LOBALOT]

100% agree, if your a top junior who has invested his or hers teens years. You are still considering a route where you could go pro. Not alot of kids with high d1 talent choose d3, and no kid is getting delvopled at a d3 like they would at a d1. Case is great no one starting below an 11 but In a match against 90% of d1 schools it’s going to be a blow out.

Just so we are reflecting what took place. Can you tell me where U of M ended up last season in the D1 rankings?

Let me help you:

Division I Men’s ITA Collegiate Tennis National Team Rankings sponsored by Tennis-Point - May 4

With the field of 64 set for the upcoming NCAA Division I Men's Championship, here are the final DI Men's ITA Collegiate Tennis National Team Rankings sponsored by Tennis-Point for May 4th.

www.wearecollegetennis.com

How would they do against say North Florida or Nebraska or Tulane all who were top 30?

Or go mid level D1 and think about how they would do?

Run the UTR Team comparison tool:

They beat Richmond, they beat Illinois State, they beat Xavier, they beat New Mexico State and I can go on and on and on.

Yes, they lost to Michigan but to say they get blown out by 90% of D1 schools is far from accurate.

 

[Sureshot]

I think your math is not reflected by what we are seeing in recruiting. Certainly there are 30 big D1 schools and there are 8 spots per team so a measure of 30 top D1 players just doesn't add up.

So now expand the top list per year to 100 and all of a sudden you start to see that quite a few head D3 and then go to 150 (i.e. 1/4 of those top D1 lineups) and all of a sudden you see a good portion of the kids heading D3.

Boys' College Commitment Lists

www.tennisrecruiting.net

Actually that’s eight spots per team spread across four or five years. That would be 120 to 150 top 30 domestic juniors over that timeframe. Throw in an equal number of top ITF foreign recruits and you can in theory populate the top 30 programs with elite quality. It doesn’t always pan out that way but the top D1s are not comparable to any D3s. It’s apples and oranges. Notice I didn’t say anything about run of the mill D1s. I was only responding to the Case vs UM comparison. UM made a deep run this summer and are one of the favorites (defintely top 10) this season too. They are a powerhouse

 

[LOBALOT]

Actually that’s eight spots per team spread across four or five years. That would be 120 to 150 top 30 domestic juniors over that timeframe. Throw in an equal number of top ITF foreign recruits and you can in theory populate the top 30 programs with elite quality. It doesn’t always pan out that way but the top D1s are not comparable to any D3s. It’s apples and oranges. Notice I didn’t say anything about run of the mill D1s. I was only responding to the Case vs UM comparison. UM made a deep run this summer and are one of the favorites (defintely top 10) this season too. They are a powerhouse

Actually I had a pretty slow day and using the universal tennis app compared Case to all the D1 schools. Frankly, I was surprised how many crudy (I am talking awful!) D1 schools there are.

I am trying to find a way to load the 17 pages onto a sharing site and post the link but using conservative estimates (i.e. I assumed they would lose to all Big 10, 12, sky, SEC, etc.) I still came up with Case wining 32% of their matches (Certainly not getting crushed in 90% per the earlier estimate) and had them competitive in 35% of their matches (not getting crushed in 90% per sure). I even had them winning the Metro Atlantic and Northeast Conferences outright.

I am not sure how we chose Case for the sample as they actually lost to Chicago and there are actually many D3 schools that would produce similar although slightly worse results.

For the time being here is the summary while I try to load the rest....

https://imgur.com/H7MkmT9

 

[LOBALOT]

Actually I had a pretty slow day and using the universal tennis app compared Case to all the D1 schools. Frankly, I was surprised how many crudy (I am talking awful!) D1 schools there are.

I am trying to find a way to load the 17 pages onto a sharing site and post the link but using conservative estimates (i.e. I assumed they would lose to all Big 10, 12, sky, SEC, etc.) I still came up with Case wining 32% of their matches (Certainly not getting crushed in 90% per the earlier estimate) and had them competitive in 35% of their matches (not getting crushed in 90% per sure). I even had them winning the Metro Atlantic and Northeast Conferences outright.

I am not sure how we chose Case for the sample as they actually lost to Chicago and there are actually many D3 schools that would produce similar although slightly worse results.

For the team being here is the summary while I try to load the rest....

https://imgur.com/H7MkmT9

If you guys have advice on how to post a 17 page PDF document on here let me know and I will do it. Otherwise my summary will have to suffice.

 

[bobleenov1963]

Having watched both D3 (U. of Chicago) and D1 (U. of Virginia) matches, both are boring by the way compare to ATP matches, I can say that D3 vs D1 is like JJ Wolf going up against Danill Medvedev at the 2020 USO . Not a pretty result.

 

[LOBALOT]

Having watched both D3 (U. of Chicago) and D1 (U. of Virginia) matches, both are boring by the way compare to ATP matches, I can say that D3 vs D1 is like JJ Wolf going up against Danill Medvedev at the 2020 USO . Not a pretty result.

There are plenty of awful D1 schools way worse than D3 form what I saw. While there are some very strong D1 schools that would crush the best of D3 from what I am seeing that is certainly not nearly true in all cases.

 

[ClarkC]

There are quite a few men's D1 programs that have no scholarships, e.g. Boston College. They have to compete just on academics with good D3 schools, and it might be more fun to win at a D3 school than lose all the time in D1.

 

[jhick]

The biggest difference I've observed is that the top D3 schools just do not have the depth of above average D1 programs. So while a top player at a D3 may be very good and could play D1, they do not have a full lineup of essentially #1 players in the lineup, whereas top D1 schools do.

 

[LOBALOT]

The biggest difference I've observed is that the top D3 schools just do not have the depth of above average D1 programs. So while a top player at a D3 may be very good and could play D1, they do not have a full lineup of essentially #1 players in the lineup, whereas top D1 schools do.

I agree. I saw that as well. I really worked on on this analysis and wish I can figure out a way to share it but using the Universal Tennis app was able to do side-by-side comparisons of the rosters.

The top D1 teams are clearly better top to bottom. For the mid tier D1 teams the D3 and D1 teams were comparable up top but D3 fell off more as you go down the lineup. The lower D1 teams might have had a strong 1s and fell off or were weak across the lineup.

 

[jcgatennismom]

I agree. I saw that as well. I really worked on on this analysis and wish I can figure out a way to share it but using the Universal Tennis app was able to do side-by-side comparisons of the rosters.

The top D1 teams are clearly better top to bottom. For the mid tier D1 teams the D3 and D1 teams were comparable up top but D3 fell off more as you go down the lineup. The lower D1 teams might have had a strong 1s and fell off or were weak across the lineup.

Can u put your analysis on a shared google doc or sheet and then post the link? I did that with a transfers spreadsheet in ‘21

 

[LOBALOT]

Can u put your analysis on a shared google doc or sheet and then post the link? I did that with a transfers spreadsheet in ‘21

I could I just didn't want to share my identity although a few out here know who I am (you may). I will work this tomorrow.

I am sure you know what I did which was basically go to the CWRU team roster in the universal tennis app and then select the compare team tool. I then went to every D1 conference and worked my way up from last years conference standings until it made no sense to go higher in the standings. Some conferences I didn't bother (i.e. Big 10, SEC, etc.).

From there it was simply a math exercise.

 

[bobleenov1963]

Fast forward to the seven minutes mark, he didn't get accepted into Yale or UPenn due to his SAT score in the 1200. He got accepted into UVA and later transferred to U. of Chicago. I guess Yale and UPenn want elite athletes who also have high SAT scores.

 

[LOBALOT]

Fast forward to the seven minutes mark, he didn't get accepted into Yale or UPenn due to his SAT score in the 1200. He got accepted into UVA and later transferred to U. of Chicago. I guess Yale and UPenn want elite athletes who also have high SAT scores.

I have seen him play in person several times. Good player but not a fan.

 

[jcgatennismom]

Case Western vs D1 teams-@LOBALOT started this analysis (his was 17 pages) and I have tweaked and shortened it. Overall it looks like Case could have beaten 36%+ of 21/22 D1 teams and been competitive vs 50%+. Case's UTR Power 6 was no more than 1.5 UTR below (.25 per line) 13 % of D1 teams and was >/= 39% of D1 teams. The 36% estimate of wins could be low but considering Case would have had to play away at D1 teams, Case would be likely to lose some matches where Case only had a slight edge on UTR. Worthy of note is that Case's Power 6 was more than 1.5 UTR vs 27% of D1 teams. The attached analysis shows by conference the number of estimated wins/losses per D1 conference with a list of teams below by conference that could be competitive matches. The D1 team UTR was taken from 21/22 collegetennisranks.com. The attached google link comes from an account that does not identify either LOBALOT or myself.

case western vs d1

Sheet1 Close UTR,Case > Conference,Teams,+/- 1.5,1.5 +,Wins,Comments American Athletic,8,0 Atlantic 10,10,3,6,9,VCU beats Case ACC,13,1,1 Atlantic Sun,9,2,3,3 Big 12,6,0,0 Big East,8,7,1,5,Loss to Depaul, Butler, St Johns beats Case Big Sky,9,5,2,4 Big South,8,1,3,3 Big 10,10,0 Big west,7,2,2 Co...

docs.google.com

 

[LOBALOT]

Case Western vs D1 teams-@LOBALOT started this analysis (his was 17 pages) and I have tweaked and shortened it. Overall it looks like Case could have beaten 36%+ of 21/22 D1 teams and been competitive vs 50%+. Case's UTR Power 6 was no more than 1.5 UTR below (.25 per line) 13 % of D1 teams and was >/= 39% of D1 teams. The 36% estimate of wins could be low but considering Case would have had to play away at D1 teams, Case would be likely to lose some matches where Case only had a slight edge on UTR. Worthy of note is that Case's Power 6 was more than 1.5 UTR vs 27% of D1 teams. The attached analysis shows by conference the number of estimated wins/losses per D1 conference with a list of teams below by conference that could be competitive matches. The D1 team UTR was taken from 21/22 collegetennisranks.com. The attached google link comes from an account that does not identify either LOBALOT or myself.

case western vs d1

Sheet1 Close UTR,Case > Conference,Teams,+/- 1.5,1.5 +,Wins,Comments American Athletic,8,0 Atlantic 10,10,3,6,9,VCU beats Case ACC,13,1,1 Atlantic Sun,9,2,3,3 Big 12,6,0,0 Big East,8,7,1,5,Loss to Depaul, Butler, St Johns beats Case Big Sky,9,5,2,4 Big South,8,1,3,3 Big 10,10,0 Big west,7,2,2 Co...

docs.google.com

Thank you for all your help with this!!!!!!

I really appreciate the time you spent to help me!

 

[bluetrain4]

Am I wrong to think that there's more good, but not great players (in regards to D1 tennis) who have opted for D3 in the past 15 years or so. Guys who could play D1 at some level, even a medium-high level, but definitely not at the highest levels, who maybe in the past would have went D1. But then scholarships were reduced and, knowing they're not going pro anyway, chose top D3 schools - which are often top academic schools. I know there's no D3 scholarships, but many have significant financial resources and can offer substantive academic scholarship/aid packages.

 

[LOBALOT]

Am I wrong to think that there's more good, but not great players (in regards to D1 tennis) who have opted for D3 in the past 15 years or so. Guys who could play D1 at some level, even a medium-high level, but definitely not at the highest levels, who maybe in the past would have went D1. But then scholarships were reduced and, knowing they're not going pro anyway, chose top D3 schools - which are often top academic schools. I know there's no D3 scholarships, but many have significant financial resources and can offer substantive academic scholarship/aid packages.

I am seeing some of that. A good spot to look are the tennisrecruiting.net class rankings as one can see that some great players are going D3. Unfortunately, my license has expired and I need to renew it but what I can see Chicago's 2023 class has two 5*'s and one 4*. On a team of 8 players +/- I would call that a strong class no mater the division.

 

[jcgatennismom]

Am I wrong to think that there's more good, but not great players (in regards to D1 tennis) who have opted for D3 in the past 15 years or so. Guys who could play D1 at some level, even a medium-high level, but definitely not at the highest levels, who maybe in the past would have went D1. But then scholarships were reduced and, knowing they're not going pro anyway, chose top D3 schools - which are often top academic schools. I know there's no D3 scholarships, but many have significant financial resources and can offer substantive academic scholarship/aid packages.

@LOBALOT too, looking at 2017-2022, there was a high of eight 5 stars (#26-75 in class) to choose D3 in 2017, 6 in 2020, 5 in 2022, 2 in 2021 and 0 in 2018 and 2019. In those years, there was not a single blue chip (top 25) to choose D3. So @bluetrain4, you are correct that the very highest US ranked players do not choose D3, but a subset of very good players do choose schools in the UAA, NESCAC, or Cali conferences. Most of those guys on the very top D3 teams are 4 stars (76-200) with a mix of some 3 and a few 5 stars. However, there is a bit of a preselection in high school. Most of the guys who are blue chips are homeschooled, and many are playing jr iTFs. The players who want to attend regular school-public or private-still play high level tennis while taking a lot of APs often choose the high D3s. Certainly there may be a few blue chips who can manage taking a bunch of APs while on the road traveling internationally, and those probably end up at Stanford, Virginia, or an Ivy, but others players will tone down their tennis hours a tad, travel less to miss less school, take the APs, and leverage their sport to achieve acceptance at a D3 with 8-20% acceptance rate. Some of those top D3 guys initially aimed for an Ivy but were happy to play for a top D3 instead. Even tho the top academic D3s may have a price tag of $70k+, with their endowments, some have generous financial aid to drop that price down by half for middle class families. Consider the 5 star American who has a choice of paying $40K+ to attend a Power 5 out-of state school where they are offered miniscule athletic aid to contend with several others to play 5 or 6 or end up on the bench or to attend a top D3 school where they are sure to play and have better balance of school, social life, and sport for a similar price after aid. Some flagships do offer merit aid to out-of-state students, but many reserve most of their limited aid for in-state or have a very high bar for out-of-state merit aid. At a top D1 tennis school, even a 5 star may be a walk on with no or very little athletic aid. Talented tennis players who are not blue chips are smart to consider D3 or the better midmajors that include some P5s in their schedule.

I will say some blue chips who have been traveling for years are a bit burnt out by college. Sometimes the 4 and 5 stars who went to regular high school end up with higher UTRs and beat some blue chips or top 100 jr iTFs in summer tourneys or ITF fall events. It has to be especially disappointing for 5 stars and blue chips to sit on the bench. In June'22, I did an analysis of the top 100 US d1 college players per UTR. 10% of those were not even regulars in the team lineup; they played 7 or less dual matches (all P5 players)-most regulars would play 20+ if not injured. With super seniors and grad transfers, it is hard for even the best US freshmen to play on top teams. Out of those top 100, 75% were on the roster of P5s, 12% played for Ivys, and 13% for midmajors. Divide 100 by 5 class years =20 US players per year which is less than the number of blue chips per year and yet not all of those were playing on P5 teams. Also worthy of note, I looked at the top 125 to cover 5 years of blue chips, and actually only 2/3 of the top 100 US d1 players were former blue chips: 9% were former 4 stars and 25% were former 5 stars. Now some of that is due to former blue chips turning pro and leaving college early or not playing 5th year, but some 4 and 5 stars were late bloomers who surpassed former blue chips in college. If 25-35% of the best US players are going to end up playing outside of P5 or sitting on a P5 bench, certainly D3 is worth a look for top players along with the Ivys

 

[LOBALOT]

@LOBALOT too, looking at 2017-2022, there was a high of eight 5 stars (#26-75 in class) to choose D3 in 2017, 6 in 2020, 5 in 2022, 2 in 2021 and 0 in 2018 and 2019. In those years, there was not a single blue chip (top 25) to choose D3. So @bluetrain4, you are correct that the very highest US ranked players do not choose D3, but a subset of very good players do choose schools in the UAA, NESCAC, or Cali conferences. Most of those guys on the very top D3 teams are 4 stars (76-200) with a mix of some 3 and a few 5 stars. However, there is a bit of a preselection in high school. Most of the guys who are blue chips are homeschooled, and many are playing jr iTFs. The players who want to attend regular school-public or private-still play high level tennis while taking a lot of APs often choose the high D3s. Certainly there may be a few blue chips who can manage taking a bunch of APs while on the road traveling internationally, and those probably end up at Stanford, Virginia, or an Ivy, but others players will tone down their tennis hours a tad, travel less to miss less school, take the APs, and leverage their sport to achieve acceptance at a D3 with 8-20% acceptance rate. Some of those top D3 guys initially aimed for an Ivy but were happy to play for a top D3 instead. Even tho the top academic D3s may have a price tag of $70k+, with their endowments, some have generous financial aid to drop that price down by half for middle class families. Consider the 5 star American who has a choice of paying $40K+ to attend a Power 5 out-of state school where they are offered miniscule athletic aid to contend with several others to play 5 or 6 or end up on the bench or to attend a top D3 school where they are sure to play and have better balance of school, social life, and sport for a similar price after aid. Some flagships do offer merit aid to out-of-state students, but many reserve most of their limited aid for in-state or have a very high bar for out-of-state merit aid. At a top D1 tennis school, even a 5 star may be a walk on with no or very little athletic aid. Talented tennis players who are not blue chips are smart to consider D3 or the better midmajors that include some P5s in their schedule.

I will say some blue chips who have been traveling for years are a bit burnt out by college. Sometimes the 4 and 5 stars who went to regular high school end up with higher UTRs and beat some blue chips or top 100 jr iTFs in summer tourneys or ITF fall events. It has to be especially disappointing for 5 stars and blue chips to sit on the bench. In June'22, I did an analysis of the top 100 US d1 college players per UTR. 10% of those were not even regulars in the team lineup; they played 7 or less dual matches (all P5 players)-most regulars would play 20+ if not injured. With super seniors and grad transfers, it is hard for even the best US freshmen to play on top teams. Out of those top 100, 75% were on the roster of P5s, 12% played for Ivys, and 13% for midmajors. Divide 100 by 5 class years =20 US players per year which is less than the number of blue chips per year and yet not all of those were playing on P5 teams. Also worthy of note, I looked at the top 125 to cover 5 years of blue chips, and actually only 2/3 of the top 100 US d1 players were former blue chips: 9% were former 4 stars and 25% were former 5 stars. Now some of that is due to former blue chips turning pro and leaving college early or not playing 5th year, but some 4 and 5 stars were late bloomers who surpassed former blue chips in college. If 25-35% of the best US players are going to end up playing outside of P5 or sitting on a P5 bench, certainly D3 is worth a look for top players along with the Ivys

I agree although we have to take blue chip in perspective. Blue chips are the top 25 tennis players in the country and look at the small fraction that represents. There are about 235 D1 teams in the country so if one blue chip player picked 1 D1 team per year that is roughly 10% of D1 teams getting a blue chip player. Not only did no D3 team take a blue chip but roughly 90% of the D1 teams didn't get one either. I suspect some of the elite D1 programs get more than 1 blue chip player making the %age of D1 teams getting them even less.

So now in context looking at the 5 star recruits (the next 75 players) (we are now totaling the top 100 recruits in the country) and there are 235 D1 teams to get those that leaves less than 50% of the D1 teams getting a 5 star assuming even distribution which we know is not the case. However, we have D3 programs taking some of those players and Chicago getting 2 of them.

I am not arguing that across the board D3 is great tennis as our experience has been very very up and very very down in level of play with most teams being very very down. However, the elite teams in D3 are very very good and in defense of the argument earlier that 90% of the D1 teams would "crush" the elite D3 programs it is just not the case.

I think it is more like 2 overlapping bell curves where the elite D1 programs would crush anybody, the middle of D1 playing competitive matches against the elite D3 and the lower level D1 teams losing to the elite D3 programs. In D3 the upper middle programs would get crushed against the top D1 programs, struggle against the middle ones and be competitive against the lower ones. The lower D3 programs would struggle against most teams D1 or D3.

I don't really have background on the blue chip travel and D1 and UTR analysis to comment.

 

[Liam Grennon]

The #1 DIII doubles team (James Hopper & Vishwa Aduru from Case Western) just fell 6-3 3-6 10-8 to Lui & Jong from TCU (who were seeded 3rd in the DI tournament) at ITAs. I'd hate to read too much into a loss, but clearly the top of DIII can be somewhat competitive with top DI teams.

 

[LOBALOT]

The #1 DIII doubles team (James Hopper & Vishwa Aduru from Case Western) just fell 6-3 3-6 10-8 to Lui & Jong from TCU (who were seeded 3rd in the DI tournament) at ITAs. I'd hate to read too much into a loss, but clearly the top of DIII can be somewhat competitive with top DI teams.

Thank you for sharing. I was looking at Case's team in the UTR app the other day and they have 5 guys with a UTR above 11 and some of those aren't even starters as a few of their starter UTRs don't reflect how they play. That is a pretty good lineup.

I watched Case's 1D team lose to Wash U's 1D about a month ago in 2 sets at the the ITA at Wash U (Note: A member of that Wash U dubs team is out here on this forum.).

There is so much good college tennis out there. It is a lot of fun to watch.

 

[Liam Grennon]

Thank you for sharing. I was looking at Case's team in the UTR app the other day and they have 5 guys with a UTR above 11 and some of those aren't even starters as a few of their starter UTRs don't reflect how they play. That is a pretty good lineup.

I watched Case's 1D team lose to Wash U's 1D about a month ago in 2 sets at the the ITA there (Note: A member of that Wash U dubs team is out here on this forum.).

There is so much good college tennis out there. It is a lot of fun to watch.

Then you might have similarly watched me loose in the doubles conciliation finals! Small world - but certainly a big diffrence between a team like mine and the top DIII teams.

 

[LOBALOT]

Then you might have similarly watched me loose in the doubles conciliation finals! Small world - but certainly a big diffrence between a team like mine and the top DIII teams.

We were on the court next to you watching my son on the far court by the scoreboard when you were playing. He was playing singles. My son played dubs against the guys you lost to.

You guys have a good team.

 

[Tennis_Slapper23]

James Hopper shoudnt be playing d3 lol. I don’t know the transfer rules but he should of moved to d1. I heard he might go d1 with his last year of eligibility.

 

[LOBALOT]

James Hopper shoudnt be playing d3 lol. I don’t know the transfer rules but he should of moved to d1. I heard he might go d1 with his last year of eligibility.

Their own player a very tricky lefty (I believe he plays 2S) beat him 5,1 at the fall ITAs who subsequently lost 4,3 to the guy from Wash U I mentioned above.

 

[jcgatennismom]

James Hopper shoudnt be playing d3 lol. I don’t know the transfer rules but he should of moved to d1. I heard he might go d1 with his last year of eligibility.

Well Case Western has a sweet deal with Cleveland Challenger in January. Hopper has earned WCs into singles MD for 1 year qualifying for 2 years (took a set off opponent both years before losing so was competitive vs players ranked 300-500 ATP) and doubles MD for two years (took a set one year). How many UTR 12.4 players get to play in a Challenger? That said, if Hopper moved to D1, he probably could push his UTR to around 13 with higher ranked opponents. However, he would be fighting to play 5 or 6 at a top 30 Power 5 or he could play 1 or 2 at midmajor but I dont know how much MM play would help him if he seeks pro career. Maybe he should look at Illinois-they are hurting after last year's fiasco of a year and he might could make lineup there, and he is obviously used to indoor courts. He also might fit in at Northwestern which finished around 25 or 30 last year I think. What I dont understand is why he hasnt played any 15or 25Ks-there are fall ones in Lansing and Columbus-if he is interested in d1 or going pro. His best win in his last 30 UtR match was vs 12.9, but he also had 3 losses vs 12.0 or below. However, he had a win vs a 13.07 in June. UTR should include a full 12 months! This guy's UTR is understated because he played a lot of matches in the off season-wrong incentive. UTR should encourage play. Collegians play different matches in different times of year-summer Future/prize $, fall invites/AAs, spring duals. For some collegians, their best competition is summer/fall if they are MM, other divisions, bench P5; for guys in P5 lineup, spring may be their best season as far as UTR. Including 12 months of results vs 30 max matches would remove UTR swings between seasons.

Note: I saw he lost to the guy who played 5 and 6 for Illinois last year this summer 6-7 in 3rd. Penn State might be a better option-one of the lower Big10s.

 

[Sureshot]

Well Case Western has a sweet deal with Cleveland Challenger in January. Hopper has earned WCs into singles MD for 1 year qualifying for 2 years (took a set off opponent both years before losing so was competitive vs players ranked 300-500 ATP) and doubles MD for two years (took a set one year). How many UTR 12.4 players get to play in a Challenger? That said, if Hopper moved to D1, he probably could push his UTR to around 13 with higher ranked opponents. However, he would be fighting to play 5 or 6 at a top 30 Power 5 or he could play 1 or 2 at midmajor but I dont know how much MM play would help him if he seeks pro career. Maybe he should look at Illinois-they are hurting after last year's fiasco of a year and he might could make lineup there, and he is obviously used to indoor courts. He also might fit in at Northwestern which finished around 25 or 30 last year I think. What I dont understand is why he hasnt played any 15or 25Ks-there are fall ones in Lansing and Columbus-if he is interested in d1 or going pro. His best win in his last 30 UtR match was vs 12.9, but he also had 3 losses vs 12.0 or below. However, he had a win vs a 13.07 in June. UTR should include a full 12 months! This guy's UTR is understated because he played a lot of matches in the off season-wrong incentive. UTR should encourage play. Collegians play different matches in different times of year-summer Future/prize $, fall invites/AAs, spring duals. For some collegians, their best competition is summer/fall if they are MM, other divisions, bench P5; for guys in P5 lineup, spring may be their best season as far as UTR. Including 12 months of results vs 30 max matches would remove UTR swings between seasons.

Note: I saw he lost to the guy who played 5 and 6 for Illinois last year this summer 6-7 in 3rd. Penn State might be a better option-one of the lower Big10s.

Hopper seems to be an academic type majoring in biomedical engineering. He could do what Isaac Gorelic did transferring to Stanford from Tufts. I think he’s pursuing a masters in CS. Even if not Stanford then any other academically elite D1 like Duke

 

[Tennis_Slapper23]

Yeah, he was interviewed by cracked rackets and he talked a little about why he stayed at case when he could easily play at a non top 20 school. He said that the academics, his injury he had a while back and the challenger wild card kept him there.

To go back to one of the big points in this thread. I think hopper would be a 13+ within a couple months at a good d1 program. The training at serious d1 school is brutal. D3 schools it’s more academic based.I’m sure he has a good training regime but him being a middle of the pack guy at a school like Duke. But he is almost always the best guy on the court in match’s and in practice he is.

If you look at his summer results you could see how well he would do vs d1.

 

[LOBALOT]

Hopper seems to be an academic type majoring in biomedical engineering. He could do what Isaac Gorelic did transferring to Stanford from Tufts. I think he’s pursuing a masters in CS. Even if not Stanford then any other academically elite D1 like Duke

I have no basis for this but suspect he is attending Case because it is Case and like many of the schools in that conference fantastic academically and he probably has realistic expectations around tennis. Case has a great campus close to the cultural district with a park, etc. which I am sure an added benefit.

 

[jcgatennismom]

@Sureshot and Tennis_Slapper23 GA Tech could be an option for Hopper too if he is studying biomedical engineering or CS. Atlanta is a great area for crossover tennis-top juniors, D1, D3 (Emory), GGC (national winner NAIA forever), UTR PTT events, hitting partners for Truist 250 in summer, plus some WCs into 250 Qualifying and MD for collegians. GT's Andres Martin got a WC into MD of the 250 and won his 1st match. He's ranked 564 ATP only playing events this past summer. GT has had some recruiting or retention issues for tennis team recently-for all 21/22-they only had 7 guys on the roster, and they only have 7 now, but maybe they will have Jan add.

 

[Sureshot]

@Sureshot and Tennis_Slapper23 GA Tech could be an option for Hopper too if he is studying biomedical engineering or CS. Atlanta is a great area for crossover tennis-top juniors, D1, D3 (Emory), GGC (national winner NAIA forever), UTR PTT events, hitting partners for Truist 250 in summer, plus some WCs into 250 Qualifying and MD for collegians. GT's Andres Martin got a WC into MD of the 250 and won his 1st match. He's ranked 564 ATP only playing events this past summer. GT has had some recruiting or retention issues for tennis team recently-for all 21/22-they only had 7 guys on the roster, and they only have 7 now, but maybe they will have Jan add.

Absolutely! Tech is an outstanding STEM school with very good tennis pedigree. Also as you point out, being in Atlanta itself provides so many benefits both tennis and professionally

 

[LOBALOT]

Absolutely! Tech is an outstanding STEM school with very good tennis pedigree. Also as you point out, being in Atlanta itself provides so many benefits both tennis and professionally

I was just down in Atlanta for the first time a little over a month ago and a great town.

 

[Tennis_Slapper23]

Anyone know how transferring in d3 to d1 work? I have never heard of anyone doing that.

 

[LOBALOT]

Chicago has the kid referenced above that switched from Virginia to their school for one year and then left but have no idea the other way.

 

[bobleenov1963]

Chicago has the kid referenced above that switched from Virginia to their school for one year and then left but have no idea the other way.

That kid is joining the professional PB circuit.

 

[LOBALOT]

That kid is joining the professional PB circuit.

Yup I saw that. The video with his interview is above.

 

[InsuranceMan]

Fast forward to the seven minutes mark, he didn't get accepted into Yale or UPenn due to his SAT score in the 1200. He got accepted into UVA and later transferred to U. of Chicago. I guess Yale and UPenn want elite athletes who also have high SAT scores.

How the hell do you transfer to U Chicago with even a 1200

 

[InsuranceMan]

How does the Emory/Case Western conf look this year? I met some kids transferring in and am curious

 

[bobleenov1963]

How the hell do you transfer to U Chicago with even a 1200

Have you looked at the SAT score of the U. Chicago football team? It is very likely that they are lower than 1200. Harvard also accepts athlete with <1200 SAT. Why not him?

 

[InsuranceMan]

Have you looked at the SAT score of the U. Chicago football team? It is very likely that they are lower than 1200. Harvard also accepts athlete with <1200 SAT. Why not him?

Well #1 football is often more important than tennis and #2 U Chicago is D3 which doesn’t care as much about sports. But overall you seem like you know more than me about this, that was only my assumption. Do you know where to find more information on SAT scores for athletes at various colleges?

 

[bobleenov1963]

Well #1 football is often more important than tennis and #2 U Chicago is D3 which doesn’t care as much about sports. But overall you seem like you know more than me about this, that was only my assumption. Do you know where to find more information on SAT scores for athletes at various colleges?

No I don't know anymore than you do. With his SAT of 1200 (equivalent of a 25 on the ACT), he would not have been accepted into UVA. He got accepted into UVA because he was an athlete. My son, who is not an athlete, didn't get accepted by UVA the first time around and he had a perfect ACT score.

He got accepted to U Chicago means that they do care about sports, right?

 

[InsuranceMan]

No I don't know anymore than you do. With his SAT of 1200 (equivalent of a 25 on the ACT), he would not have been accepted into UVA. He got accepted into UVA because he was an athlete. My son, who is not an athlete, didn't get accepted by UVA the first time around and he had a perfect ACT score.

He got accepted to U Chicago means that they do care about sports, right?

Apparently so, yes. I have read about UChic before and gone over admissions requirements etc, just surprised me that they did care so much

 

[SVP]

I was surprised to hear about MIT recruiting high school students for their women’s basketball team. I guess athletics are a potent source of alumni revenue, even a place like MIT. I’m curious what the calculus is in terms of academic qualifications and athletic talent.

 

[Bud]

I had the pleasure of being smacked by Denison earlier this season - a good team for sure! Should be interesting regardless of the result.

On the tush?

 

[LOBALOT]

How does the Emory/Case Western conf look this year? I met some kids transferring in and am curious

While I know a few recent recruits going to Emory I am not familiar with the team overall but will see them play in the Spring.

Case, Chicago, and Wash U all looked good from what I saw at the Fall ITA but it is hard to tell as one can't take team depth into account and coaches pick who they bring. What do you think @Liam Grennon ?

I am pretty familiar with Denison and they are going to very strong and Kenyon brought in 2 strong foreign recruits.

 

[InsuranceMan]

While I know a few recent recruits going to Emory I am not familiar with the team overall but will see them play in the Spring.

Case, Chicago, and Wash U all looked good from what I saw at the Fall ITA but it is hard to tell as one can't take team depth into account and coaches pick who they bring. What do you think @Liam Grennon ?

I am pretty familiar with Denison and they are going to very strong and Kenyon brought in 2 strong foreign recruits.

I know some of the case recruits. Smart, 10-11 UTR range, indoors not exactly a huge strength but still very good overall. They’ve done well this year. How do the Emory recruits look academically/tennis wise? I know they haven’t had as much success recruiting since they won the championships

 

[Liam Grennon]

While I know a few recent recruits going to Emory I am not familiar with the team overall but will see them play in the Spring.

Case, Chicago, and Wash U all looked good from what I saw at the Fall ITA but it is hard to tell as one can't take team depth into account and coaches pick who they bring. What do you think @Liam Grennon ?

I am pretty familiar with Denison and they are going to very strong and Kenyon brought in 2 strong foreign recruits.

All very strong teams, but I think Case and WashU are are two looking especially dangerous. Case has the culture and the guys to win it and WashU is crazy talented, and I think they are probably both top contenders for a national championship.

 

[Nostradamus]

Does anybody really care about D3 tennis anymore ?? i have tough time watching bad D1 teams play

 

[Liam Grennon]

Does anybody really care about D3 tennis anymore ?? i have tough time watching bad D1 teams play

It's not always the prettiest but I enjoy D3 tennis! But that might be because I am not a Genius...