Dampeners Decrease Power

Jay Sean

Rookie
It's true. It adds weight to the longest strings on the bed but also dampens the movement overall, slightly altering the elasticity. The string can not rebound as quickly as it can without the dampener.

But this is very noticable when you play lower tensions. It almost feels as though your string bed is shortened a bit. Because it is. Test the pitch before and after dampener. Higher pitch.

Higher pitch means higher tension, right? Or shorter string length? In this case, it's both but it is also dampened and we all know the general rule of thumb is more tension equals less power.

You guys can fight about it in the comments but it's true.

The lighter a dampener is and the less contact area it has with the strings, the less effect on power it will have.

Rubber bands might be ideal if your priority is to maintain the original feel as much as possible but to mute the vibrations also.
 

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
Interesting comment, but I would disagree. When I take a racquet off my stringer, I ping it with RT. It normally tells me I am within 0.2# of ref tension. If I put a rubber string dampener on the frame at it's lowest point and ping it, I hear and see very little difference. If I move the dampener to the bottom cross, I cannot get a reading because the vibrations are dampened below RT's ability to hear the frequency. Remove dampener and I get my normal reading. Nothing has physically changed on the string bed except the dampener. Power levels, however you define it, is unchanged. You are thinking that sound or pitch defines power. 3¢

I will agree that a dampener may increase SW, but to feel it requires a very sensitive arm. And if you hit hard enough for the mains to move below the bottom cross, then I would say you should maybe go pro.
 

mpournaras

Hall of Fame
I will say I *feel* like I get more pop and spin without a dampener. How can a couple grams of rubber do that? I dont know. But I also feel like I swing faster

#nuderackets4life
 

Fxanimator1

Hall of Fame
I will say I *feel* like I get more pop and spin without a dampener. How can a couple grams of rubber do that? I dont know. But I also feel like I swing faster

#nuderackets4life
I would think if anything, the added 3 grams or so of string damper to the head would give you MORE pop. Although 3 grams added to the bottom of the hoop would do very little to anything in changing SW or moving the balance point.
 

Jay Sean

Rookie
I would think if anything, the added 3 grams or so of string damper to the head would give you MORE pop. Although 3 grams added to the bottom of the hoop would do very little to anything in changing SW or moving the balance point.
It would have measurable effect on SW.

Put dampening weight anywhere between the two ends of where a string and it's tension are held and you change how it moves. The ball hits the strings and the effect of rebound transfers energy back to the ball.

Imagine putting a 25 gram rubber weight a few inches from the sweet spot. Do you think that would decrease the power you get from strings? Slow down the rebound of the strings?

If your imagination is correct, the answer is yes. This is just a less extreme version of the same thing because the dampener is closer to the bottom and much lighter.

It's really funny to me that some of you guys only consider the effect of SW. As if dampening the vibrations wouldn't affect the interactions between ball and string in a more than superficial way.
 

Jay Sean

Rookie
I will say I *feel* like I get more pop and spin without a dampener. How can a couple grams of rubber do that? I dont know. But I also feel like I swing faster

#nuderackets4life
I mean, my argument is that you literally are getting more pop. It's annoying how often people just claim is because you're hearing vibration or feeling it and that's why.

You such some life out of the strings when you dampen them. They don't move as naturally. It's minimal, but it's noticable.

Someone should measure this in a more scientific way where the results are a strong indicator of the hypothesis.

But it's REALLY noticable when you play with lower tensions.
 

BlueB

Legend
Dampener can only add swing weight, therefore it can only increase the power.
Of course, if you somehow managed to add a dampener heavy enough to slow down your swing, you'd loose the power. Maybe a small bicycle tire fitted around the hoop, or something?
 

Jay Sean

Rookie
Dampener can only add swing weight, therefore it can only increase the power.
Of course, if you somehow managed to add a dampener heavy enough to slow down your swing, you'd loose the power. Maybe a small bicycle tire fitted around the hoop, or something?
This is wrong. SW might cancel out a little of the effect but ultimately has nothing to do with it.

Any amount of SW would slow down your swing so if your statement is going to be that simple, any amount of SW will translate to a decrease in power.

You think SW only helps with power until it slows down your swing? It always slows down your swing. More weight is always harder to accelerate.
 

Purestriker

Professional
It's true. It adds weight to the longest strings on the bed but also dampens the movement overall, slightly altering the elasticity. The string can not rebound as quickly as it can without the dampener.

But this is very noticable when you play lower tensions. It almost feels as though your string bed is shortened a bit. Because it is. Test the pitch before and after dampener. Higher pitch.

Higher pitch means higher tension, right? Or shorter string length? In this case, it's both but it is also dampened and we all know the general rule of thumb is more tension equals less power.

You guys can fight about it in the comments but it's true.

The lighter a dampener is and the less contact area it has with the strings, the less effect on power it will have.

Rubber bands might be ideal if your priority is to maintain the original feel as much as possible but to mute the vibrations also.
It does increase the swing weight. But so does using an over grip and it's not a massive change.
 

BlueB

Legend
This is wrong. SW might cancel out a little of the effect but ultimately has nothing to do with it.

Any amount of SW would slow down your swing so if your statement is going to be that simple, any amount of SW will translate to a decrease in power.

You think SW only helps with power until it slows down your swing? It always slows down your swing. More weight is always harder to accelerate.
No, not any amount of weight slows down your swing, because we do not swing at maximum effort. As long as the increase is within our comfort levels (which is a very individual thing), the power will go up.
 

Jay Sean

Rookie
No, not any amount of weight slows down your swing, because we do not swing at maximum effort. As long as the increase is within our comfort levels (which is a very individual thing), the power will go up.
I agree with that. But it does always slow your Max headspeed but that's besides the point.

Anyway, dampening strings is a very separate effect. Some people wanna insist on measuring what they understand and swingweight is the only thing that comes to mind. Not anything regarding the strings, even though it's on the strings and affects how they vibrate.

Kind of frustrating.
 

Fxanimator1

Hall of Fame
I agree with that. But it does always slow your Max headspeed but that's besides the point.

Anyway, dampening strings is a very separate effect. Some people wanna insist on measuring what they understand and swingweight is the only thing that comes to mind. Not anything regarding the strings, even though it's on the strings and affects how they vibrate.

Kind of frustrating.
Adding swing weight, even a small amount like 3 grams is noticeable, so don't put words in my mouth, since I stated that it would add weight in my first post.
While it may slow down the swing, as you insist, it will also help the racquet win the collision with the ball, due to added weight. Translating to, hitting a harder ball...If you consider 3 grams a big deal in winning that collision at contact.
 

BlueB

Legend
I agree with that. But it does always slow your Max headspeed but that's besides the point.

Anyway, dampening strings is a very separate effect. Some people wanna insist on measuring what they understand and swingweight is the only thing that comes to mind. Not anything regarding the strings, even though it's on the strings and affects how they vibrate.

Kind of frustrating.
I think that reduction in main strings movement could reduce the launch angle, which is then perceived as loss of power. However, how small would that be from a dampener?
 

Villain

Professional
This is wrong. SW might cancel out a little of the effect but ultimately has nothing to do with it.

Any amount of SW would slow down your swing so if your statement is going to be that simple, any amount of SW will translate to a decrease in power.

You think SW only helps with power until it slows down your swing? It always slows down your swing. More weight is always harder to accelerate.
Huh? More SW equals more power:

 

Grieeegoorr

Rookie
Dampers change the feel, bringing this into the vortex of subjectivity. What I feel can be very different to what you can feel, you can’t measure that so everyone is right and no one is really wrong
 

Jay Sean

Rookie
Dampers change the feel, bringing this into the vortex of subjectivity. What I feel can be very different to what you can feel, you can’t measure that so everyone is right and no one is really wrong
There should be a simple way to measure this. TW has done much more in depth tests. This is literally just how the ball comes off the racket you could measure the energy return to energy given.

It would actually be a perfect experiment since the strings and racket would be the exact same. Just take dampener off and compare results.
 

Jay Sean

Rookie
Huh? More SW equals more power:

Yeah this has nothing to do with swingweight. Yes this changes it minimally but the effect dampening has is greater than the effect swingweight has in this case.

If I put a metal bar across the stringed just below the sweetspot, severely limiting how far the strings can move, the swingweight is irrelevant.

The principal of a dampener is the same but much less significantly. It is like attaching that bar except it's much lower and lighter so the impact is negligible but noticable.
 

Villain

Professional
Yeah this has nothing to do with swingweight. Yes this changes it minimally but the effect dampening has is greater than the effect swingweight has in this case.

If I put a metal bar across the stringed just below the sweetspot, severely limiting how far the strings can move, the swingweight is irrelevant.

The principal of a dampener is the same but much less significantly. It is like attaching that bar except it's much lower and lighter so the impact is negligible but noticable.
I’m specifically referring to this part of your comment:
any amount of SW will translate to a decrease in power.
My point is that that is not correct in general terms. More SW equals more power.
 

mrravioli

Semi-Pro
I guess it does work both ways. It adds weight so adds power, but also prevents string from free moving so reduces power/spin. But no mortal out of talk tennis would even think about those factors
 

Jay Sean

Rookie
I guess it does work both ways. It adds weight so adds power, but also prevents string from free moving so reduces power/spin. But no mortal out of talk tennis would even think about those factors
I feel like a decent number of relatively competitive players could tell the difference. I hit very heavy balls and I know I'm testing the limits of a racket at full power and swingspeed with good technique.

It's a pretty subtle difference but the harder you hit, the more obvious it becomes. It's about as subtle as say going up 4 lbs in tension is. But I notice that, too. Many do not.

But maybe all these responses will just be highly personal and if you don't actually notice then it doesn't necessarily matter. But I do notice and I'm certain it's not just in my head, the physics make sense and anyone disregarding the effect it has on power but validating the claims a 2g or less dampener has on swingweight is missing more than half the picture.
 

BlueB

Legend
I feel like a decent number of relatively competitive players could tell the difference. I hit very heavy balls and I know I'm testing the limits of a racket at full power and swingspeed with good technique.

It's a pretty subtle difference but the harder you hit, the more obvious it becomes. It's about as subtle as say going up 4 lbs in tension is. But I notice that, too. Many do not.

But maybe all these responses will just be highly personal and if you don't actually notice then it doesn't necessarily matter. But I do notice and I'm certain it's not just in my head, the physics make sense and anyone disregarding the effect it has on power but validating the claims a 2g or less dampener has on swingweight is missing more than half the picture.
How are you testing the limits? Do your racquets brake, occasionally, just from playing?

As for physics making sense... you didn't provide any physics.
 

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
2 grams = 0.002 Kg. Assume distance from top of handle to insert point is between 20 cm. MR² = increase in SW. I calculate 0.002*20*20 = 0.8 Kgcm². If we use a 5 gram dampener, SW would increase 2.0 Kgcm². Some people can feel a 2 Kgcm² difference; many can't. The variance due to string gauges can exceed 2 Kgcm².
 

puppybutts

Semi-Pro
It's true. It adds weight to the longest strings on the bed but also dampens the movement overall, slightly altering the elasticity. The string can not rebound as quickly as it can without the dampener.

But this is very noticable when you play lower tensions. It almost feels as though your string bed is shortened a bit. Because it is. Test the pitch before and after dampener. Higher pitch.

Higher pitch means higher tension, right? Or shorter string length? In this case, it's both but it is also dampened and we all know the general rule of thumb is more tension equals less power.

You guys can fight about it in the comments but it's true.

The lighter a dampener is and the less contact area it has with the strings, the less effect on power it will have.

Rubber bands might be ideal if your priority is to maintain the original feel as much as possible but to mute the vibrations also.
i think i commented this in the other thread you said this in, if you're the same guy i'm thinking of. with firm and weak dampeners, i don't notice much difference other than sound. with my fat quakebuster dampener, i definitely hear and feel a difference, but i don't notice any difference in play with freshly strung (52-54lbs) strings.

however, last year from fall to winter, I didn't restring my poly for a few months since weather was so intermittent and I couldn't play regularly, it wasn't worth it. by january my poly hadn't just lost a lot tension, it was dead and mushy. the ball was springing erratically like from a broken trampoline. putting my quake dampener definitely made the stringbed more tight and predictable again and i could play points again. not like it was brand new obviously, but just usable. sounds dramatic, but idk what to tell you, that kind of tangible difference definitely wasn't in my head.

it would be interesting to do a blind and deaf playtest though, to rule out placebo :) maybe people who say dampeners do something are idiots, maybe people who say they do nothing are bad at listening to their body. it's a debate more tired than the billions of GOAT threads
 

Jay Sean

Rookie
i think i commented this in the other thread you said this in, if you're the same guy i'm thinking of. with firm and weak dampeners, i don't notice much difference other than sound. with my fat quakebuster dampener, i definitely hear and feel a difference, but i don't notice any difference in play with freshly strung (52-54lbs) strings.

however, last year from fall to winter, I didn't restring my poly for a few months since weather was so intermittent and I couldn't play regularly, it wasn't worth it. by january my poly hadn't just lost a lot tension, it was dead and mushy. the ball was springing erratically like from a broken trampoline. putting my quake dampener definitely made the stringbed more tight and predictable again and i could play points again. not like it was brand new obviously, but just usable. sounds dramatic, but idk what to tell you, that kind of tangible difference definitely wasn't in my head.

it would be interesting to do a blind and deaf playtest though, to rule out placebo :) maybe people who say dampeners do something are idiots, maybe people who say they do nothing are bad at listening to their body. it's a debate more tired than the billions of GOAT threads
I agree with this. Just seeing the conversation this sparked actually inspired me less to care than I did. People will believe what they believe to no end sometimes and even if I proved myself right, many would still say it doesn't matter.

I just wanted to point this out as a useful observation in case anyone else wondered this, and to stress that the effect of this is independent of swingweight.

The rest of you can find out for yourselves if you care enough to.
 

StringGuruMRT

Semi-Pro
Yeah but some of them are cute animals or hearts and stuff... Totally worth the massive decrease in playability that they obviously cause! :rolleyes:
 

Hulger

Rookie
If you don’t notice the decrease in power and launch angle while wearing a dampener, you must have some serious sensitivity problems.
 

slipgrip93

Semi-Pro
Since I learned to string racquets last year, I've a few older and used collectable racquets. I tried one of those "P" dampeners from a 2-pack on order, since I lost the original small p-dampener with "shoulders" that slides and fits into the plastic part of the 2006, O3 White's bottom 1 holes' grommets.

It was horrible, the "P" was too big like over an inch in length and seeming thicker like 1/4 inch with sharp cheap edges, and caused more air friction which I felt interfered with the swing. Now I wonder if these 2-pack big "P" dampeners are not official prince dampeners at all, but some more fakery tennis equipment like the fake model racquets from china.
 
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BlueB

Legend
If you don’t notice the decrease in power and launch angle while wearing a dampener, you must have some serious sensitivity problems.
I notice some decrease in feel, but my power and angle is still great, while wearing a rubber. However, the launch is obstructed.
 

Diablo XP

Rookie
Since I learned to string racquets last year, I've a few older and used collectable racquets. I tried one of those "P" dampeners from a 2-pack on order, since I lost the original small p-dampener with "shoulders" that slides and fits into the plastic part of the 2006, O3 White's bottom 1 holes' grommets.

It was horrible, the "P" was too big like over an inch in length and seeming thicker like 1/4 inch with sharp cheap edges, and caused more air friction which I felt interfered with the swing. Now I wonder if these 2-pack big "P" dampeners are not official prince dampeners at all, but some more fakery tennis equipment like the fake model racquets from china.
Pretty sure they are legitimate Prince products. I have been using the P dampeners since around 2000 or 2001. I actually kind of like how big they are. Trains your point of contact even better. If you mishit, that "P" is a pretty big surface.
 

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
I would submit that dampeners can INCREASE power -- by diminishing concerns about discomfort and thus psychologically encouraging a bigger swing. I've always felt better about punching my volleys more firmly when I have a comfortable stick.
 

Winners or Errors

Hall of Fame
Hmm, dampeners definitely make racquets feel more controllable to me. I hate the "sproing" feel/sound without on in. Haven't played without a dampener since they first arrived on the scene in the 1980s. Scientifically, they do nothing but mute the sound, but in between the ears they seem to have a greater effect.
 
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Kozzy

Semi-Pro
I stopped using dampeners around 5 years ago and could never go back to using them. I like the feel and the sound without them.
 

J D

Rookie
I don’t have empirical evidence yet, but between-string dampeners definitely reduce power and spin some. They add mass to the center main strings, reducing the amount of string deflection, pocketing, and trampolining. They also lock the center strings and greatly reduce snap back.

A dampener does have a small but noticeable (to some) effect on swing weight, but any increase in power is more than offset by the reduction in trampolining.
 

Jay Sean

Rookie
If you don’t notice the decrease in power and launch angle while wearing a dampener, you must have some serious sensitivity problems.
Can't tell if sarcastic but I'm going to like your comment anyway. I think a lot of critical players past the legit 4.5 level often notice this. That's the level where their tennis is clearly a cut above the rest and scratching the surface of D1 level play. But they probably aren't on the forums as much. They're too busy being sick at tennis.
 

Jay Sean

Rookie
I don’t have empirical evidence yet, but between-string dampeners definitely reduce power and spin some. They add mass to the center main strings, reducing the amount of string deflection, pocketing, and trampolining. They also lock the center strings and greatly reduce snap back.

A dampener does have a small but noticeable (to some) effect on swing weight, but any increase in power is more than offset by the reduction in trampolining.
Why can't the others be this intuitive? It's not that you agree with me that I like, it's that you're viewing things from the correct perspective and therefore coming to the same understanding.

People literally can't grasp this concept of dampening the trampoline effect, adding weight to the main strings and what the consequences of that are. I can FEEL it happening. It's really obvious like the launch angle and time of ball pocketing are a little different.

Y'all probably ain't even playing with matched rackets. If you are playing with any brand except yonex and you have 2 of the same model frames but don't notice the QC discrepancy then you probably wouldn't notice this either. But you can compare on the same racket at least. Taking it off and on is easy enough.

I just wanna see if I can get more people to notice this because it's definitely happening but nobody talks about it.
 

Jay Sean

Rookie
Hmm, dampeners definitely make racquets feel more controllable to me. I hate the "sproing" feel/sound without on in. Haven't played without a dampener since they first arrived on the scene in the 1980s. Scientifically, they do nothing but mute the sound, but in between the ears they seem to have a greater effect.
They do have an effect beyond what you hear but I'm with you, I prefer playing with them than without. But when experimenting with lower tensions, the effect I'm talking about was extremely noticable.
 

Jay Sean

Rookie
I would submit that dampeners can INCREASE power -- by diminishing concerns about discomfort and thus psychologically encouraging a bigger swing. I've always felt better about punching my volleys more firmly when I have a comfortable stick.
Sure but this is all about a psychological effect, not a tangible one.

Everyone using a dampener is slightly reducing the lower threshold of accessible power than if they were not to.
 
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