Daniil Medvedev escaping a default despite hitting a fan in the face

[marbz]

https://firstsportz.com/tennis-news...djokovic-fans-angry-on-atps-double-standards/

The social media account has been criticizing the ATP. This started when a video showed Daniil Medvedev angrily hitting a ball into the stands and hitting an elderly lady. Tennis fans argued that Medvedev wasn’t punished as severely as Novak Djokovic, who accidentally hit a line judge at the 2020 US Open.

 

[Krish0608]

It's a disgrace that this ill-behaved man child gets away with doing atrocious s#it like this on a tennis court. This was a sure DQ. How on earth was he not even penalised for this?

 

[ALCARAZWON]

It would only be comparable if the same chair umpire was involved.
Each chair umpire has their own tolerance level for such indiscretions.
Plus the reaction of the victim is a factor.

 

[johnmccabe]

Daniil needs to do better

 

[3loudboys]

DQ ... he got lucky that umpire didn't enforce it. Not defending this but in the heat of the moment when your chimp is in control we can do things we regret. Haven't seen it but hope the spectator was ok.

 

[tex123]

https://firstsportz.com/tennis-news...djokovic-fans-angry-on-atps-double-standards/

The social media account has been criticizing the ATP. This started when a video showed Daniil Medvedev angrily hitting a ball into the stands and hitting an elderly lady. Tennis fans argued that Medvedev wasn’t punished as severely as Novak Djokovic, who accidentally hit a line judge at the 2020 US Open.

Why does everything have to do with Novak Djokovic? Can it not be just said that Daniil deserved to be disqualified? Lots of players got DQ'd.

 

[Wurm]

Medvedev's was a 50/50 decision for the umpire whereas Novak's was a no-brainer decision.

In Medvedev's case he did a weird, shove at the ball after it bounced off the back wall and back towards him that looks half like he's trying to defend himself from being hit... it's not like he launched a ball at the spectators in anger after the fact, nor carelessly launched a ball towards someone without looking after the ball was dead and the court staff not paying attention.

Spectators and staff can't expect to never get hit if there's no barrier between the court and them so the question is mostly how avoidable and therefore reckless were Med's actions, or was it just dumb luck that in taking a defensive swipe at a ball it happened to escape his control and hit someone?

 

[Terenigma]

Medvedev's was a 50/50 decision for the umpire whereas Novak's was a no-brainer decision.

In Medvedev's case he did a weird, shove at the ball after it bounced off the back wall and back towards him that looks half like he's trying to defend himself from being hit... it's not like he launched a ball at the spectators in anger after the fact, nor carelessly launched a ball towards someone without looking after the ball was dead and the court staff not paying attention.

Strongly disagree with this. When you watch Djokovic's incident again, you see the typical "I'm passing the ball to the ball kid" action a lot of tennis players make. Does anyone remember when Federer hit the towards a ball kid who proceeded to do really cool stretch catch? Same motion. Medvedev at first seemed like he was defending but he clearly "swiped" at the ball and pushed it into the crowd.

The difference between both is the reaction of the person hit. The Lineswoman went full drama and dramatically fell down like she had been shot, the lady in the crowd realized it was just an accident, accepted Medvedev's apology and they moved on. Either way, the same result should be applied to both, either DQ both or DQ neither.

 

[esvc]

Both the lady and Medvedev behaved in a civil manner to avoid further conflict. Europeans are classy people.

 

[Wurm]

Strongly disagree with this. When you watch Djokovic's incident again, you see the typical "I'm passing the ball to the ball kid" action a lot of tennis players make.

That went straight into the line judge's throat. I watched it happen live and I watched countless replays and they were entirely justified in defaulting him, particularly based on historical disqualifications such as those of Henman and Nalbandian.

No-one's ever produced anything close to a convincing reason why he shouldn't have been defaulted, it's all been some combination of sour grapes, sophistry and the simple disbelief that getting hit in the windpipe hurts like hell.

Med's lucky to have gotten away with this one but it's not an equivalent situation.

 

[Bill Lobsalot]

It's a stupid rule unless it's intentional. I think he was just swatting the ball towards the wall.

 

[Terenigma]

That went straight into the line judge's throat. I watched it happen live and I watched countless replays and they were entirely justified in defaulting him, particularly based on historical disqualifications such as those of Henman and Nalbandian.

No-one's ever produced anything close to a convincing reason why he shouldn't have been defaulted, it's all been some combination of sour grapes, sophistry and the simple disbelief that getting hit in the windpipe hurts like hell.

Med's lucky to have gotten away with this one but it's not an equivalent situation.

Ok fair the throat resulted in the reaction but it WAS still accidental. You said Meds was 50/50 but why? It still hit an elderly lady in the face. Both should be DQs imo despite me firmly believing that both were also accidental. The Nalbandian one is the only famous one that was utterly un-debatable but in general the rule should be simple, hit someone, get DQd.

 

[3loudboys]

The rules should be applied non-discriminatory so nobody can be viewed as getting an easy ride. Regardless of who it is. Not the players fault if an official doesn't apply them. Umpiring desperately needs consistency.

 

[bobbybob14]

I actually enjoy Medvedev on and off the court for some reason. I can't really say why but there are so many things that he does that I normally would not like and somehow do with him. That being said if they DQ'd him for that I would have not complained. As people said above though it is not his fault how the umpire applies the rules. Also who knows what the umpire saw, can they use replay on something like this?

 

[Kralingen]

Get him for this. He needs to be banned.

He needs severe punishment.

He should never have been allowed to play our amazing sport. He is single-handedly ruining it.

 

[Red Rick]

Get him for this. He needs to be banned.

He needs severe punishment.

He should never have been allowed to play our amazing sport. He is single-handedly ruining it.

Kralingen and being only right when he's trying to be sarcastic name a better duo

 

[ChrisJR3264]

Strongly disagree with this. When you watch Djokovic's incident again, you see the typical "I'm passing the ball to the ball kid" action a lot of tennis players make. Does anyone remember when Federer hit the towards a ball kid who proceeded to do really cool stretch catch? Same motion. Medvedev at first seemed like he was defending but he clearly "swiped" at the ball and pushed it into the crowd.

The difference between both is the reaction of the person hit. The Lineswoman went full drama and dramatically fell down like she had been shot, the lady in the crowd realized it was just an accident, accepted Medvedev's apology and they moved on. Either way, the same result should be applied to both, either DQ both or DQ neither.

I don’t think Novak warranted a DQ then. Nor do I feel Daniil did this on purpose to warrant a DQ. Look at the whole video. Wasn’t done in anger - ball projected back to him and into his face. Seemed like an accident. He didn’t catch the ball toss and hit it directly at the crowd.

 

[Bambooman]

He merely deflected the ball from hitting him. Big deal.

 

[johnmccabe]

Get him for this. He needs to be banned.

He needs severe punishment.

He should never have been allowed to play our amazing sport. He is single-handedly ruining it.

Serious or trolling?

 

[ibbi]

Holy Jesus, here we go again. Some people really have trouble wrapping their heads around the nature of rules being enforced via discretion. THE RULES ONLY APPLY TO DJOKOVIC and miyu kato and denis shapovalov and david nalbandian and tiger tim henman. FEDERER AND NADAL GET PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT as do nick kyrgios and stef tsitsipas and the great irina-camelia begu.

Where's the rest of this video featuring the reaction of the victim? Was she in tears? Hyperventilating? Acting like she'd been shot?

 

[Kralingen]

Serious or trolling?

Kralingen and being only right when he's trying to be sarcastic name a better duo

Absolutely dead serious.

Hate his presence on tour with all my being.

A true black mark, blemishing everything good about the game. The worst on-court personality of the past 25 years. A gigantic bully, who is always right, never ever taking accountability, routinely abusing umpires, ball boys, fans, and the eyes of fans with his disgusting, rotten, behavior. Thinly disguised anger issues. All of this couched in “humor” and some quippy interviews, so it’s all OK, right? Because “he’s a smart guy who is playing a character”, right? Smacking a ball at granny out of frustration is all good?

But my gripe goes beyond the player, to me, his negative presence is undeniable. It goes deeper - he is the most popular NextGen player online by a long shot. He has many fans, or as I call them, enablers.

A Medvedev fan is someone who is not only easily manipulated and impressed, someone who is actively searching for the wool to be pulled over their eyes. They want to believe this horrible person is actually cool and good. They don’t want to look at things objectively. They are the type of people to support horrible atrocities as long as they are placated with memes and candy, and can convince themselves they are doing the right thing.

I have zero respect for Medvedev and only pure pity for Medvedev supporters. He has to go.

 

[johnmccabe]

Absolutely dead serious.

Hate his presence on tour with all my being.

A true black mark, blemishing everything good about the game. The worst on-court personality of the past 25 years. A gigantic bully, who is always right, never ever taking accountability, routinely abusing umpires, ball boys, fans, and the eyes of fans with his disgusting, rotten, behavior. Thinly disguised anger issues. All of this couched in “humor” and some quippy interviews, so it’s all OK, right? Because “he’s a smart guy who is playing a character”, right? Smacking a ball at granny out of frustration is all good?

But my gripe goes beyond the player, to me, his negative presence is undeniable. It goes deeper - he is the most popular NextGen player online by a long shot. He has many fans, or as I call them, enablers.

A Medvedev fan is someone who is not only easily manipulated and impressed, someone who is actively searching for the wool to be pulled over their eyes. They want to believe this horrible person is actually cool and good. They don’t want to look at things objectively. They are the type of people to support horrible atrocities as long as they are placated with memes and candy, and can convince themselves they are doing the right thing.

I have zero respect for Medvedev and only pure pity for Medvedev supporters. He has to go.

Wow. That's some heavy stuff. You are one of the well informed and insightful posters here. So I'll take a note.

 

[ChrisJR3264]

Wow. That's some heavy stuff. You are one of the well informed and insightful posters here. So I'll take a note.

People who despise medvedev are mostly ppl who can’t handle honest speaking human beings.
I am a fan of Daniil on and off the court. Hard worker. Grinds. Can play 5 hours of tennis and take peoples legs out.
Do I enjoy everything he does? No. He’ll complain about the speed of the courts. Sometimes he’s probably right but the way he goes about it isn’t the best. He still problem solved and adjusts. But idk venting is probably his coping mechanism.

Does him hitting a fan look bad? Sure. But the ball bounced back at him from the wall. Looked like a reaction. It would’ve been a different story if he picked a ball up and whacked it intentionally in the crowd.

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

I like Meddy but this is double standards. It was probably worse than what Djokovic did and he gets away with it. The lack of consistency is what doesn’t sit right with a lot of people.

 

[aldeayeah]

Absolutely dead serious.

Hate his presence on tour with all my being.

A true black mark, blemishing everything good about the game. The worst on-court personality of the past 25 years. A gigantic bully, who is always right, never ever taking accountability, routinely abusing umpires, ball boys, fans, and the eyes of fans with his disgusting, rotten, behavior. Thinly disguised anger issues. All of this couched in “humor” and some quippy interviews, so it’s all OK, right? Because “he’s a smart guy who is playing a character”, right? Smacking a ball at granny out of frustration is all good?

But my gripe goes beyond the player, to me, his negative presence is undeniable. It goes deeper - he is the most popular NextGen player online by a long shot. He has many fans, or as I call them, enablers.

A Medvedev fan is someone who is not only easily manipulated and impressed, someone who is actively searching for the wool to be pulled over their eyes. They want to believe this horrible person is actually cool and good. They don’t want to look at things objectively. They are the type of people to support horrible atrocities as long as they are placated with memes and candy, and can convince themselves they are doing the right thing.

I have zero respect for Medvedev and only pure pity for Medvedev supporters. He has to go.

I disagree. We need more of his brand of natural heelery.

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

Medvedev's was a 50/50 decision for the umpire whereas Novak's was a no-brainer decision.

In Medvedev's case he did a weird, shove at the ball after it bounced off the back wall and back towards him that looks half like he's trying to defend himself from being hit... it's not like he launched a ball at the spectators in anger after the fact, nor carelessly launched a ball towards someone without looking after the ball was dead and the court staff not paying attention.

Spectators and staff can't expect to never get hit if there's no barrier between the court and them so the question is mostly how avoidable and therefore reckless were Med's actions, or was it just dumb luck that in taking a defensive swipe at a ball it happened to escape his control and hit someone?

Djokovic wasn’t even looking the same way. I’d say Meddy’s was worse but both deserved the DQ all the same. How they can default Djokovic but not Meddy makes no sense to me.

 

[Lauren_Girl']

Thanks for bringing that up. Fact is that incident was at close range. Medvedev was face to face with that woman and the ball was much faster than at the USO2020. Djokovic was at long-range, slower ball and was turning his back on the line judge.

I would be livid if I were Djokovic. And it isn't like it's the first time something like that happened.
Bedene Cincinnati 2020.
Brooksby in Miami
Andreeva in RG 2023
Ostepenko in Eastbourne
Tsitsipas in WB2022 (who literally tried to hit Kyrgios ON PURPOSE)
And Begu in RG last year. Literally made a little girl cry and bleed.... that one was 10000000x uglier than USO2020.... but nothing.

The list of example keeps growing....

Anyone remind me why that creepy German referee was suspended shortly after that USO2020? Surely not a coincidence.

 

[aldeayeah]

Djokovic wasn’t even looking the same way. I’d say Meddy’s was worse but both deserved the DQ all the same. How they can default Djokovic but not Meddy makes no sense to me.

Consequentialism. If the lady in the public had been hit in the neck and collapsed out of breath, Med's a** would be toast too.

 

[Lauren_Girl']

Consequentialism. If the lady in the public had been hit in the neck and collapsed out of breath, Med's a** would be toast too.

Who knows?

Begu's case still looks the worst, and she wasn't toast. Not even a point penalty.

 

[RF-18]

Lol at that immediate look to the umpire like he didn't know how that possibly could have happened.

 

[tudwell]

If he didn't even get a warning, that's nuts. And default would seem to be justified based on prior incidents. I get that different umps are going to make different decisions – but this kind of thing does feel like it's getting more frequent (I know some of that's just the effect of social media, where more obscure incidents with lower-ranked players or in smaller tournaments can get blown up in a way they wouldn't have fifteen or more years ago, but even so...).

I think the ATP should really take a zero-tolerance policy to this. Maybe get rid of the code violation warning for these particular situations – if you angrily hit a ball out of the court, even if it doesn't come close to hitting anybody, instant point penalty. If you violently swing or throw your racquet anywhere near a ball kid or line ump, instant point penalty. Whatever the ultimate solution, it's just not acceptable to allow their star players (or anyone) to angrily swat balls and possibly hurt – sometimes actually hurt – spectators and officials.

 

[Kralingen]

I disagree. We need more of his brand of natural heelery.

In the sense that a country needs a clear despicable opposition to unite against, sure

 

[Terenigma]

Lol at that immediate look to the umpire like he didn't know how that possibly could have happened.

This is another reason I think people are WAY too harsh on Djokovic for what happened, when you watch the video his immediate reaction to what happened was to go and check she's okay. Medvedev's immediate reaction was to turn around in defeat and look at the umpire in what I assume was him expecting to be defaulted.

The blame isn't with the players though, we can spend all day judging how serious each incident was but the rule should be clear. If you hit the ball or throw the racquet and it hits someone, you should be DQ'd.

 

[aldeayeah]

In the sense that a country needs a clear despicable opposition to unite against, sure

You get it. Except, because sports are inconsequential, you can also root for them for the drama/lulz and not feel bad about it.

 

[Neptune]

people are WAY too harsh on Djokovic

Most just base on what money/power feed them, pretty much always "Animal farm" situation

 

[GrassCourtFan]

The situations seem obviously different. Medvedev was taking a swing at a ball still in play, and then tried to react when the ball bounced off the back wall and came back at him. That has nothing in common with somebody holding a ball and then smacking it in anger.

 

[Red Rick]

Absolutely dead serious.

Hate his presence on tour with all my being.

A true black mark, blemishing everything good about the game. The worst on-court personality of the past 25 years. A gigantic bully, who is always right, never ever taking accountability, routinely abusing umpires, ball boys, fans, and the eyes of fans with his disgusting, rotten, behavior. Thinly disguised anger issues. All of this couched in “humor” and some quippy interviews, so it’s all OK, right? Because “he’s a smart guy who is playing a character”, right? Smacking a ball at granny out of frustration is all good?

But my gripe goes beyond the player, to me, his negative presence is undeniable. It goes deeper - he is the most popular NextGen player online by a long shot. He has many fans, or as I call them, enablers.

A Medvedev fan is someone who is not only easily manipulated and impressed, someone who is actively searching for the wool to be pulled over their eyes. They want to believe this horrible person is actually cool and good. They don’t want to look at things objectively. They are the type of people to support horrible atrocities as long as they are placated with memes and candy, and can convince themselves they are doing the right thing.

I have zero respect for Medvedev and only pure pity for Medvedev supporters. He has to go.

Posts like these are Meds only redeeming quality

 

[ChrisJR3264]

The situations seem obviously different. Medvedev was taking a swing at a ball still in play, and then tried to react when the ball bounced off the back wall and came back at him. That has nothing in common with somebody holding a ball and then smacking it in anger.

Thank you. The result was the same where a non player /spectator got hit. But the action by the players were different.

 

[djokovic the conqueror]

All the more reason Djokovic should’ve never been defaulted at the US Open in 2020.

 

[Texas Tennis Fan]

It's a stupid rule unless it's intentional. I think he was just swatting the ball towards the wall.

Agreed with this, as was Djokovic.

 

[Texas Tennis Fan]

Thank you. The result was the same where a non player /spectator got hit. But the action by the players were different.

It is utterly amazing to me how non-Djokovic fans contort their reasoning and the situation to make Djokovic look worse. It is like your brain melts with anything Djokovic.

There was zero reason for Medvedev to hit the ball that hit the woman. He was frustrated that the ball had gotten past him. If he were protecting himself only, he would have simply blocked the ball, but he hit it rather forcibly given the position of his body.

Medvedev was frustrated and struck the ball towards the wall and it his someone in the face/neck. Djokovic was frustrated and struck the ball towards the wall and struck someone in the face/neck area.

As someone said, if Djokovic was legitimately DQd, then Medvedev should have been also. We are just pointing out that this is a double standard if not enforced that way.

 

[Moose Malloy]

Who knows?

Begu's case still looks the worst, and she wasn't toast. Not even a point penalty.

the child was certainly not bleeding. The racquet took a weird bounce and was moving very slowly. Sounded like the kid cried for a second then stopped. No one around the kid seems particularly concerned either, so I can see why it didn't make international headlines. She was fined 10k, which is the max for racquet abuse. here's the video.

Irina-Camelia Begu narrowly avoids Roland Garros default after outburst sends racquet flying off court | Tennis.com

Contrite in her post-match press conference, the Romanian was loath to discuss the incident after overcoming Ekaterina Alexandrova in Paris.

www.tennis.com

 

[RaulRamirez]

That's why it's so tricky.
Some want to take umpire's discretion out of it. In which case, how would you write the rule(s) governing this?

Some want the umpire to determine intent. How can you read intent?
I don't think that either Novak (US20) or Med intended to hit the lineswoman/fan, but both were reckless.

Do we look at the effect of the "incident"? In which case, it's not really intent-based. I forget which player and tourney it was, but a women's doubles player sent a ball back to the ballgirl, who wasn't expecting it, and she reacted almost hysterically. It looked neither reckless nor done with any ill intent, yet she and her team were DQd.

Again, it's tricky.

 

[JeMar]

That's why it's so tricky.
Some want to take umpire's discretion out of it. In which case, how would you write the rule(s) governing this?

Some want the umpire to determine intent. How can you read intent?
I don't think that either Novak (US20) or Med intended to hit the lineswoman/fan, but both were reckless.

Do we look at the effect of the "incident"? In which case, it's not really intent-based. I forget which player and tourney it was, but a women's doubles player sent a ball back to the ballgirl, who wasn't expecting it, and she reacted almost hysterically. It looked neither reckless nor done with any ill intent, yet she and her team were DQd.

Again, it's tricky.

I don't think it needs to be that complicated. If you hit a ball outside of playing a point and it hits someone, you should be disqualified. It doesn't matter if you're Djokovic, Federer, or playing doubles. No one is entitled to be a tennis player and it is perfectly fine to make them live up to higher standards.

 

[NoleFam]

The most likely reason is because the woman didn't fall out on the ground in an Oscar nominated performance writhing in pain and pretending she is dying (obviously because she was looking for a payout from the USTA which I'm sure she got). Still, it shows they are not consistent with enforcing the rule and if you're only going to enforce for certain situations or against certain players but not others, then why is the rule there in the 1st place?

 

[RaulRamirez]

I don't think it needs to be that complicated. If you hit a ball outside of playing a point and it hits someone, you should be disqualified. It doesn't matter if you're Djokovic, Federer, or playing doubles. No one is entitled to be a tennis player and it is perfectly fine to make them live up to higher standards.

In spirit, I mostly agree, and agree that any rule should apply equally to all.
But not to be overly complicated, I think there has to be some discretion, with some read of intent and effect, as imperfect as it is.
Otherwise, the slightest tap on someone's foot could be grounds for a DQ.

And I agree that more players need to be more cognizant of those around them - game officials and fans.

 

[tudwell]

That's why it's so tricky.
Some want to take umpire's discretion out of it. In which case, how would you write the rule(s) governing this?

Some want the umpire to determine intent. How can you read intent?
I don't think that either Novak (US20) or Med intended to hit the lineswoman/fan, but both were reckless.

Do we look at the effect of the "incident"? In which case, it's not really intent-based. I forget which player and tourney it was, but a women's doubles player sent a ball back to the ballgirl, who wasn't expecting it, and she reacted almost hysterically. It looked neither reckless nor done with any ill intent, yet she and her team were DQd.

Again, it's tricky.

I'm not sure I've seen a single instance where a player intended to hit someone while striking the ball outside of play. If intent is the standard, then I'm not sure anyone would ever be defaulted. Shapovalov didn't intend to hit the chair ump. Even Nalbandian didn't intend to kick the line judge at Queens that one year – he just angrily and recklessly kicked the first thing he saw, which so happened to be a small sign/board sitting just in front of the line judge. The recklessness is the issue, not the intent.

But yes, there are issues surrounding the effect of the reckless behavior, and what an appropriate punishment would be in each scenario. What if a player smacks the ball as hard as possible and by sheer luck misses a line judge's head by a couple inches? That strikes me as being worse than what happened in that doubles match you mentioned, but probably wouldn't result in a DQ.

 

[jm1980]

I don't think it needs to be that complicated. If you hit a ball outside of playing a point and it hits someone, you should be disqualified. It doesn't matter if you're Djokovic, Federer, or playing doubles. No one is entitled to be a tennis player and it is perfectly fine to make them live up to higher standards.

It's not that simple. Zero tolerance rules are stupid.

What if you roll the balls out of your pocket and they happen to hit someone? What if you tap the ball while moderately frustrated? What if you rifle it in anger? There is a whole spectrum there, and it's very hard to draw a line somewhere that leaves no room for interpretation (unless the line is at zero tolerance, which is extremely silly)

 

[ChrisJR3264]

It is utterly amazing to me how non-Djokovic fans contort their reasoning and the situation to make Djokovic look worse. It is like your brain melts with anything Djokovic.

There was zero reason for Medvedev to hit the ball that hit the woman. He was frustrated that the ball had gotten past him. If he were protecting himself only, he would have simply blocked the ball, but he hit it rather forcibly given the position of his body.

Medvedev was frustrated and struck the ball towards the wall and it his someone in the face/neck. Djokovic was frustrated and struck the ball towards the wall and struck someone in the face/neck area.

As someone said, if Djokovic was legitimately DQd, then Medvedev should have been also. We are just pointing out that this is a double standard if not enforced that way.

I actually don’t believe Novak should’ve been dq’d. But the reaction played a part of the line judge being hit in the throat and she went down.

It also was not the same as Novak picked the ball up and hit it out of frustration. Had med done that and hit the fan in the throat or face - then I’d support a DQ.

Titsipas against NK at wimbledon last year deserved a DQ for what he did.

 

[Deleted member 629564]

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