Daniil Medvedev says the kid in him "stopped dreaming" after what he experienced today with the crowd.

fishpiefriday

Semi-Pro
Fans were going to be rooting big time for Rafa against any other opponent out there except Federer. Med should have known going into the match he would have very little fan support and he should have just dealt with it like Djokovic does.
Yep. A lot of people wanted to see history being made too.
 
Agreed, but once you get crowds involved there is no control over when and how they will act. There may be individual offenders who can be identified as they did during the Kyrgios doubles match and ejected, but if many people are in on the act, what is the ump going to do other than repeat requests to stay quiet?

Better not to rile them up to begin with.
yep, pretty much. I was just making a point that it's not as if Medvedev gets the crowds to treat his opponents disrespectfully but then makes it a big deal when they turn on him. That would be pure hypocrisy.

While I agree the lack-of-love cannot be pleasant nor a short-lived feeling.... IMO there is a lot of conjecture in your conclusions. If I'm reading you right, you're almost diagnosing some kind of PTSD which is the realm of professionals.
Not PTSD. I don't have a degree in psychology and am also not in the know about what happens in Djokovic's life outside of tennis-related stuff, so you're right about this being a conjecture. I also probably phrased it incorrectly, implying that the only reason Djokovic is less happy is the crowds being against him. I'm just going off the drastic change in how Novak used to behave in general and with crowds specifically when he was younger vs later in his career, plus Novak's strong reactions to both crowd support and the crowd being against him. It's what makes me think that ending up as a sort of antagonist hurt him deeply. The rare vulnerable moments such as him tearing up because he received a standing ovation (FO 2015) and breaking down because of the big crowd support, saying they touched his soul (USO 2021) add to that as well.

I mean you're projecting from your earlier diagnosis/conclusions. It's not something other players are escaping either... unfair is when the same rules don't apply to everyone.

In any case, even if one sympathizes, what realistically is the solution? Ban hostile crowds? Eject everyone? Make half the crowd support each player?
Other players can go through rowdy matches and have the crowd be disrespectful, of course, but how often does that happen? You can have a bad day and get over it. If you have bad days all the time, it becomes more difficult to handle.

Perhaps a more strict style of umpiring, using security to remove some particularly loud people can make things better. But maybe there isn't a viable solution. All I'm saying is that, IMO, such crowd behavior is wrong and can be damaging on a personal level, and Medvedev doesn't deserve that kind of damage even if he behaves like a jerk sometimes.
 

reaper

Legend
yep, pretty much. I was just making a point that it's not as if Medvedev gets the crowds to treat his opponents disrespectfully but then makes it a big deal when they turn on him. That would be pure hypocrisy.


Not PTSD. I don't have a degree in psychology and am also not in the know about what happens in Djokovic's life outside of tennis-related stuff, so you're right about this being a conjecture. I also probably phrased it incorrectly, implying that the only reason Djokovic is less happy is the crowds being against him. I'm just going off the drastic change in how Novak used to behave in general and with crowds specifically when he was younger vs later in his career, plus Novak's strong reactions to both crowd support and the crowd being against him. It's what makes me think that ending up as a sort of antagonist hurt him deeply. The rare vulnerable moments such as him tearing up because he received a standing ovation (FO 2015) and breaking down because of the big crowd support, saying they touched his soul (USO 2021) add to that as well.


Other players can go through rowdy matches and have the crowd be disrespectful, of course, but how often does that happen? You can have a bad day and get over it. If you have bad days all the time, it becomes more difficult to handle.

Perhaps a more strict style of umpiring, using security to remove some particularly loud people can make things better. But maybe there isn't a viable solution. All I'm saying is that, IMO, such crowd behavior is wrong and can be damaging on a personal level, and Medvedev doesn't deserve that kind of damage even if he behaves like a jerk sometimes.

Watching the match, there didn't seem to be much wrong with the crowd behaviour. They were supporting one player (Nadal), but that's their right. There might have been more going on that didn't come across in the coverage, but it seemed pro Nadal, rather than hostile to Medvedev. He needs to be able to cope with not being the crowd favourite, because he doesn't get to choose who the fans support.
 
Watching the match, there didn't seem to be much wrong with the crowd behaviour. They were supporting one player (Nadal), but that's their right. There might have been more going on that didn't come across in the coverage, but it seemed pro Nadal, rather than hostile to Medvedev. He needs to be able to cope with not being the crowd favourite, because he doesn't get to choose who the fans support.
Starting from the 3rd set, some people in the crowd kept making noise when he was serving. I myself didn't think much of it but it clearly did a number on Medvedev.
 

YAFF is Back

New User
Look I didn't watch the Collins, Barty match. Maybe you could fill me in but did the Australian crowd treat her like crap? I mean they could have, but even if she has an attitude she doesnt treat everyone around the court like garbage. I saw an after match interview with her after the semis and she was treated respectfully. But she wasn't giving the finger to crowds or throwing towels away, or calling players names, or calling refs stupid and all this other garbage. She was playing in the finals against an Aussie and she dealt with it. I saw no interview of her complaining.
Women get treated very differently. I think we all know that.
 

Crisstti

Legend
So much for Med not caring what the crowd thought of him, eh?

Maybe try not abusing umpires and opponents and antagonizing the crowd then...

Novak certainly has had his 'moments' with the crowd including the infamous occasion when he shouted to them that they should all suck a very private part of his anatomy. He said it in Serbian of course but there were more than a few observers quite willing to offer a translation! :cool:

Didn't he then skip the tournament the next year (Madrid)?
 

reaper

Legend
Starting from the 3rd set, some people in the crowd kept making noise when he was serving. I myself didn't think much of it but it clearly did a number on Medvedev.

I'm not sure which way this will go. Whether players will need to learn to play with some noise on 2nd serves, or whether fans will start to get ejected. In terms of what came across in the coverage, I couldn't hear the noise, but Medvedev was complaining about it for half the match. Not sure if he was being precious, or if it was something players don't ordinarily deal with in matches where they're not the crowd favourite.
 

Crisstti

Legend
This was even worse than USO15 final. The crowd booed Med for missing a toss on his serve.... And they booed the electronic line call system because the ball was not in Rafa's favour... I have never seen anything like it, and hope I never see it again. Disgusting behaviour. And I agree with what Medvedev said to the umpire: "Please is not enough! These are idiots, you need to order them to be quiet between every point if that's what it takes".

Very emotional "speech" from Medvedev and I agree with you; a smart guy with tons of charm!

You've never seen anything like it? Seriously?
 
I'm not sure which way this will go. Whether players will need to learn to play with some noise on 2nd serves, or whether fans will start to get ejected. In terms of what came across in the coverage, I couldn't hear the noise, but Medvedev was complaining about it for half the match. Not sure if he was being precious, or if it was something players don't ordinarily deal with in matches where they're not the crowd favourite.
It'll be pretty difficult to learn to serve with a distraction in a Slam final. Maybe in practice or in a 1st round match it wouldn't be a big deal, but that "I could win a Slam now" pressure must hit differently.
 

Crisstti

Legend
I expected him to do that, but my guess is he respects Rafa too much.

I expected: "I want to thank the crowd for the great support - particularly between first and second serves" - the regular Medvedev humour. But he restrained himself, and it was probably the wise decision :)

This, and also it's not the same to say that kind of thing when you've won than when you've just lost a slam final. He would have got heavily booed and maybe he wouldn't have been able to take it.

I agree it was the right decision.
 

onefineday

Hall of Fame
It totally fits TBH. That's why he flips out on umpires or other players when he's mad at himself deep down. He did it for a little bit in the chair the moment Nadal started to do well and he got worried about it. HIs MO is blaming others when things don't go his way (has done it to his brilliant coach as well). So it makes sense that he would use the opportunity of a press conference to "blame" the crowd.

He's number #2 (almost #1, not sure if that still applies in the world). The difference between the real beloved champions and just a great tennis player is that they are not blaming others. They get. it. done. And gracious in defeat.

BTW with the stuff I said about ESPN commentators (and TC too) is they were completely pro on Kyrgios for a long time---in spite of a lot of his antics. The tide will definitely change if Med doesn't remove some of the antics as it did for Kyrgios (who BTW is on a rant of some sort about the press today, I saw on his IG). Basically anyone can see through what you are doing by throwing tantrums when you are better known for your controversies and shenanigans than your tennis and wins. If you are at the top or talented and on the way up there is very little reason to be throwing those tantrums (even when you do get frustrated). A guy that knows he's the best, knows he's the best or one of the best and that extra stuff is unnecessary. The real question is why doesn't he believe it....like fully and truly believe it.

If you were to ask me, it's because he understands his ceiling and I think realizes or is worried that he's not this 1,2 3 times in a generation like (Fed, Nadal, Novak) so he's insecure that the others will be nipping at his heels very soon and it's a small window he has to get some grand slams...Before yesterday I would have said that's totally true. He played better than I imagined so I think the window of opportunity is bigger but maybe he's the one that is not so sure of it. I can see why that would be greatly disappointing.

Agreed. I thought this during the match. He's very predictable and there is nothing in his game, nothing about his shots, that would puzzle Nadal. Nadal just had to lift his game to get the win.
 

darthrafa

Hall of Fame
i felt sorry for him but it is expected with what he said in the past. also, he should think abt why it didn't happen in aome other matched. the audience would hv different choice in different matches. one day he may be the favorite. no need to sound so sadly

love and respect has to be earned and deserved

that is why djoke can be themost successful OAT
but may not be GOAT to tennis ppl
 
Western crowds are influenced 100% by the media and they will hate whome ever media tells them to hate...this is not new Danil being Russian and Novak being a Serb this is a given as media is the extension of western forign policy. Learn to overcome hate and adversity Danil

Any crowd are getting influenced just the same by their gov media.. Dont even think if tomorrow Russia start some propaganda against the west, their population wont fall for it. Hell, it's happening in China atm.
So your crowd isnt anything special.
 

Azure

G.O.A.T.
I find him genuine . He isn't like Big 3 , they are all diplomatic .

He just said what it feels like to play in Western countries as a slavic/Russian .

When a top player says , he would want to play in his home country (250 event ) instead of a slam in west , because he didn't like the hatred in another country , i will believe him .
Lets see. Being emotional on this issue doesn’t help him. If he needs to, he should have a chat with Novak and see what he does to overcome it.
 

reaper

Legend
It'll be pretty difficult to learn to serve with a distraction in a Slam final. Maybe in practice or in a 1st round match it wouldn't be a big deal, but that "I could win a Slam now" pressure must hit differently.

To be honest I don't think serving was a problem for Medvedev. He served 23 aces and 5 double faults. His second serve generally was well directed to the Nadal backhand. His problem started up 2-3 0-40 in the 3rd set when he had a number of short balls that sat up from Nadal (across the 3 break points) and point blank refused to rip the ball into either corner as he'd done to get himself into that position (leading by 2 sets). Instead he played them back as neutral rally balls. He played with that defensive mindset from then until he went down a break in the 5th. That's what cost him the match, not people yelling out during his service motion.
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
dm_190830_Medvedev_snatches_towel_from_ball_man_earns_violation.jpg


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Bad, bad behavior.
In the end, it ended up taking its toll on 'Meddy'.
:(
 
Agreed. I thought this during the match. He's very predictable and there is nothing in his game, nothing about his shots, that would puzzle Nadal. Nadal just had to lift his game to get the win.

yeah...he actually played better than I expected in that he was able to lift his game, just not in a traditional sort of way. Like usually when you see a player lift their game it has to do with physical ability and tennis talent...and when he does it feels like it has to do with mentally moving the chess pieces--which TBH is his strength anyway IMO. Hard to get anything past him because he has an answer for just about everything--maybe not the conventional "answer" we have been taught to expect, which is refreshing in a way. lol his game doesn't "look" any better nor is it feeling like you've got him on 10!

Nadal was pretty beat down. Gotta admire his heart and just sticking with it. I thought he was gonna fall over sometimes...which is not usually what you ever say about nadal. I think if rafa was in his normal shape then raising his level would have been a lot easier. That said, Med did impress whereas I thought he was already at his ceiling. He doesn't seem fit, yet he can hang--it's amazing really. Got a shot pretty much for everything a player like rafa can hit to him. I think if he played a S&V'er who was top notch and whose game that really was, maybe that would trouble him but he's smart regardless. but then he's kind of boring (himself) and predictable. He's definitely something different. I do think as the guys of his generation get better or Alcaraz it is potentially just a short window of opportunity for him. I think what we saw today/last night is about as high as he will ever get. But being that the talent is being pretty smart, it's hard to tell how he will be able to apply that to the different players he encounters.
 

maratha_warrior

Hall of Fame
Lets see. Being emotional on this issue doesn’t help him. If he needs to, he should have a chat with Novak and see what he does to overcome it.

I see this differently .

See , when the whole crowd wants to see you fail , when they hates your presence in the court when you are hitting winners and are playing good , when you feel their negativity around you and they are in thousands wanting you deported back to your home country then you won't have any energy left to play .

Even when a single voice chanted Daniel's name rest of the crowd in thousands made the lone voice shut up ,
He might have felt alone out there .

As a player he tried to forget it and focus , but as a human he wasn't able to do it .

I don't know if Novak should be consulted for this or not , i actually don't want this to happen to any player .

Although Novak has won Grandslams inspite of such horrible crowds , Novak would definately like crowd support .
One time they supported in New York , he cried like a baby .
He clearly said that he got emotional because they never loved him in new york and he was so touched by their love , he said it both in post match interviews and later in press conference .

Daniel is a very genuine guy , i think he means it what he said today .
Noone should face hostile crowd be it Novak or Daniel !
 

jdx2112

Hall of Fame
I see this differently .

See , when the whole crowd wants to see you fail , when they hates your presence in the court when you are hitting winners and are playing good , when you feel their negativity around you and they are in thousands wanting you deported back to your home country then you won't have any energy left to play .

Even when a single voice chanted Daniel's name rest of the crowd in thousands made the lone voice shut up ,
He might have felt alone out there .

As a player he tried to forget it and focus , but as a human he wasn't able to do it .

I don't know if Novak should be consulted for this or not , i actually don't want this to happen to any player .

Although Novak has won Grandslams inspite of such horrible crowds , Novak would definately like crowd support .
One time they supported in New York , he cried like a baby .
He clearly said that he got emotional because they never loved him in new york and he was so touched by their love , he said it both in post match interviews and later in press conference .

Daniel is a very genuine guy , i think he means it what he said today .
Noone should face hostile crowd be it Novak or Daniel !
No one wanted Daniel deported.
Drop the straw man argument.
 

celito

Professional
Don't know about in print but on ESPN the commentators were very favorable about him and his game overall. They'd commented about the umpire abuse the day it happened but I did not see them bring it up again and it was quickly glossed over as far as a misstep when they did speak of it. On top of that, 2 out of 3 picked him to win IIRC, that's how positive they were about Med. Tennis people are rooting for him because of his talent and in spite of his missteps. Crowd doesn't react as well though, especially when they are being called idiots basically. And the thing with Cressy was not cool

Yeah. I don't buy the media has done anything to Medvedev's image. I don't think they've done that much to Djokovic over the years too. That was more of a fan sourced dislike.
 

celito

Professional
The crowd today was nowhere near as bad as times during this tournament. They were on the whole pretty good using the 5th.

Surprising given how ridiculous the situation he has faced in the US he has been as vocal about today.

They definitely got more behaved in the 5th set.
 
Yeah. I don't buy the media has done anything to Medvedev's image. I don't think they've done that much to Djokovic over the years too. That was more of a fan sourced dislike.
Yeah whenever possible they are trumpeting new, fresh and exciting for the sport players. Mac has been pro Med since the very beginning. And with any of the players that cause off court controversy they gloss over it and speak very little of it in tennis commentating (Zverev's issues, recent Djokovic etc etc). They will give every benefit of doubt focusing on tennis as long as possible. Until you have blown it so much like Kyrgios that they just sort of give up, ie the "story" is now how he will not make it because he cannot apply himself.

lol and don't @ me about Kyrgios...it's been a love/hate! I'm mad at him too for wasting all that talent. If doubles is where it's best for him, that's great though
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Still hard for me to wrap my mind around this. Med feeling bad because the crowd was against him???
Exactly. He's frankly not relevant/important enough for the crowd to be against him. 15,000 selfies will be uploaded to social media on blast, "i was like there when um... that bald spain dude got like the slam record."

That was a relevant factor in the crowd reactions. Though Rafa has earned the right to have 90% of the crowd rooting for him unless he plays Fed.
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
Yes! I figured he embraced the villain role but it is what it is. As someone said, it was only Lendl who truly accepted that role.
I guess Med was just really distraught from the loss, so fighting the crowd was the last thing he wanted at that moment.
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
Exactly. He's frankly not relevant/important enough for the crowd to be against him. 15,000 selfies will be uploaded to social media on blast, "i was like there when um... that bald spain dude got like the slam record."
He's definitely relevant and important, but this guy feeling bad about crowd support?

medvedev-uso.gif
 

Azure

G.O.A.T.
I guess Med was just really distraught from the loss, so fighting the crowd was the last thing he wanted at that moment.
I don’t get it - if he was distraught he would blame his loss on lack of crowd support. He doesn’t and frankly shouldn’t He wasn’t this distraught when he won the USO. He rather went into a sob story about skipping wimbledon for moscow for crowd support. I did find that a little childish to be fair.

It also gives us a lot of insight into what the likes of Davydenko, Ferrer, Roddick etc must have felt when playing these guys - they got a raw deal having the greats at their best and also having the crowd against them and none of them ever ranted this way. Note I picked Davy for his nationality. Somewhere in here Medvedev should also come to terms with the fact that he cannot turn every crowd towards him after disparaging them the way he did against the USO crowd.

Tennis is a spectator sport at the end of the day.
 
Novak has not gone out of his way to mock and anger the crowd during play as Med has multiple times. They just don't like Novak. I didn't understand that myself, but it's how it is.

It will be interesting going forward which of them the crowd disapproves of more. I don't think it will be Med.
Novacx is far too busy hitting lines people, smashing/throwing racquets and faking injuries to have time to mock the crowd. Apparently he’s also the first person since Jesus to be able to alter water molecules with prayer too.
 

slipgrip93

Professional
Sorry to see Med per his post match interview, feel so much this way. He has potential not just as a great player of a new "top three" or a good run as a #1 , even similar to Lendl when the west saw him as an outsider to begin with. Maybe he could use some better attitude advice, outside of his russian crew. Sharapova did well to adapt, as she was already more than half Americanized already. Maybe Med could read (or re-read) "Winning Ugly" and "The Inner game of tennis" books, mainly for the attitude and maintaining equanimity advice. And the crowd isn't everything imo, plenty of players let their professionalism, skills and artistry pull through often ignoring the crowd or not even depending on them as much or not taking it personally, while maintaining performance such as Graf, even Seles, Edberg, Sampras, and Borg as a bunch of more shy or introverted players. Well, Med may not be as introverted, so he just needs to have more experienced understanding perspective where of course Rafa was a very big sentimental favorite. And plenty probably liked and respected Med, (outside of the particular annoying trollish elements of that crowd,) just that Nadal was there too, so it was going to be a conflicted or uniquely divided reaction for that match setup.
 
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MugOpponent

Hall of Fame
I like Med. I think he's very smart, engaging, funny and entertaining. He's gotta realize that he's relatively new to the scene at the elite level. Roger and Rafa didn't have their fanbases overnight. When Daniil consistently wins slams then his fanbase will also grow.

Given the circumstances, Nadal a beloved player who has been so close to winning a second AO and going for the 21st overall, Medvedev has to realize the crowd was never going to be on his side. It's nothing personal against him.
 
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