Daniil Medvedev will thwart Djokovic on Sunday

DjokoLand

Hall of Fame
One thing I’ve learned is to never underestimate how bad these next gen players can be

No matter how good they have seemed, it’s always been exposed as a false dawn
I said in the match thread and stick too it. Next gen talent wise aren’t that worse than most gens(big 3 is different) in history for me.
But the difference in mental strength is huge. I’ve never seen so many mentally weak players with little fight in a long time
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic even if he beats Zed in 5 will not necessarily be tired but Med has literally breezed into the final so it will be huge
What will be huge? Med spending less time on court? No one is able to live with Djoko physically. Med lost his legs after the first set at the AO. Even the former energizer bunny ran out of gas on his beloved clay.

No need to worry, your guy will lift the trophy come Sunday and then again at the AO
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
I’d agree with you. If you remove the AO F his level is close to the same. He now needs to produce when it matters
I think his level was better going into the AO final and iirc, he beat better opponents to get there. Can't see him best Djoko on Sunday
 

Pandaman

Semi-Pro
Med's game is looking better than at AO21. I also expected more from FAA, folded like a cheap suit. Too bad.
I don't think so. I don't have the statistics in front of me, but the guy was running trains on the very best players in the world, not the Isners and Opelka's of the world. He's playing dead bodies all tournament and hitting out more than I remember him doing back then. The only thing going for him is better rest and he's been coming to the net more in response to the AO thrashing.
 

DjokoLand

Hall of Fame
What will be huge? Med spending less time on court? No one is able to live with Djoko physically. Med lost his legs after the first set at the AO. Even the former energizer bunny ran out of gas on his beloved clay.

No need to worry, your guy will lift the trophy come Sunday and then again at the AO
I still think you are underrating him. The AO was nothing to do with fitness Med was a error machine. He is better than that and will prove it in the F. Is it enough to win ? Maybe not but it won’t be a blowout
 

DjokoLand

Hall of Fame
I don't agree with this. I don't have the statistics in front of me, but the guy was running trains on the very best players in the world, not the Isners and Opelka's of the world. He's playing dead bodies all tournament and hitting out more than I remember him doing back then. The only thing going for him is better rest and he's been coming to the net more in response to the AO thrashing.
I agree his level is close to the same. The AO F this year is the biggest letdown in recent history. For god sake he went off 50/50 in the bookmakers in a final where the opponent was 8-0. I didn’t mind losing the final to the GOAT at the AO it’s the way he lost it.
Though people are basing him on that and think it will happen agains but it won’t
 

Pandaman

Semi-Pro
It is very difficult to beat world #2 Med at both the Australian and U.S. Final.
This time, it will be much closer as Med will be rested and ready. Med has had a ridiculously soft draw with the early exit of Tsitsipas, PCB, Shapo and others. Med will likely have another easy match with FAA while Djoker battles five hours with Zverev.
But the first order of business is getting past Zverev.
I have Zverev/Djoker are 50/50, but @TennisFan3, @Hitman, and reflecting on his draw have me convinced Novak is going to return well and get this done in 3 or 4.
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
I still think you are underrating him. The AO was nothing to do with fitness Med was a error machine. He is better than that and will prove it in the F. Is it enough to win ? Maybe not but it won’t be a blowout
Maybe not a blowout, but it's still a NID match imo. Which is why I am looking more forward to the women's final tbh. Anyhow, enjoy the semi. Gotta catch some sleep now
 

DjokoLand

Hall of Fame
Med's playing WAY WORSE than he did in the AO. He is MUCH LESS aggressive and his forehand looks worse as well.
It’s hard to judge as he hasn’t had a challenge this far. Also Djokovic doesn’t look at good either. Med level at the AO this year was good enough to challenge Djokovic he just crumbled.
Yes that can happen again but I feel it’s going to be close
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
I don't think so. I don't have the statistics in front of me, but the guy was running trains on the very best players in the world, not the Isners and Opelka's of the world. He's playing dead bodies all tournament and hitting out more than I remember him doing back then. The only thing going for him is better rest and he's been coming to the net more in response to the AO thrashing.
Exactly
 

TennisFan3

G.O.A.T.
It’s hard to judge as he hasn’t had a challenge this far. Also Djokovic doesn’t look at good either. Med level at the AO this year was good enough to challenge Djokovic he just crumbled.
Yes that can happen again but I feel it’s going to be close
I would agree with that except Novak vs Berritinni in set 2 to set 4 played his A game. That game is enough to beat both Zed and Med in straight sets. Let's see if Novak maintains that form.
Because if he does then Zed and Med won't have a say in the outcome.
 

DjokoLand

Hall of Fame
I have Zverev/Djoker are 50/50, but @TennisFan3, @Hitman, and reflecting on his draw have me convinced Novak is going to return well and get this done in 3 or 4.
The bookmakers have it at 65/35. I think it’s about right. Zed has looked better than Djokovic this HC swing and based on that alone you could say he’s favourite but due to Djokovic always finding the extra gear plus his hard to finish off makes the odds about right
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
I agree his level is close to the same. The AO F this year is the biggest letdown in recent history. For god sake he went off 50/50 in the bookmakers in a final where the opponent was 8-0. I didn’t mind losing the final to the GOAT at the AO it’s the way he lost it.
Though people are basing him on that and think it will happen agains but it won’t
The guy you are replying to is saying Med's AO level was way better

Look, I get it. Your guy is on the verge of history and you're nervous. But the opponent's can't beat him, so relax. He will get five in a row in 5 months time
 

DjokoLand

Hall of Fame
I would agree with that except Novak vs Berritinni in set 2 to set 4 played his A game. That game is enough to beat both Zed and Med in straight sets. Let's see if Novak maintains that form.
Because if he does then Zed and Med won't have a say in the outcome.
Well that’s why Djokovic will be favourite he seems to have a extra level when needed. The Berrettini match from set 2 is the level I expect this late and that will probably be good enough to win the tournament, but if he plays like the 1st then he could be in troubld
 

Bubcay

Hall of Fame
I would agree with that except Novak vs Berritinni in set 2 to set 4 played his A game. That game is enough to beat both Zed and Med in straight sets. Let's see if Novak maintains that form.
Because if he does then Zed and Med won't have a say in the outcome.
He truly was playing some great tennis. Some of his 2011/2015 hallmark moves were there, paired with a better serve and smarter play. If he plays at his current peak level, Djokovic will be unbeatable.
 

DjokoLand

Hall of Fame
The guy you are replying to is saying Med's AO level was way better

Look, I get it. Your guy is on the verge of history and you're nervous. But the opponent's can't beat him, so relax. He will get five in a row in 5 months time
Actually he can beat him. Med BO3 against Djokovic is great. He had the worst performance in a GS F at the AO but that doesn’t mean it will happen here. Also Djokovic record here is nowhere near the AO
 

Pandaman

Semi-Pro
The bookmakers have it at 65/35. I think it’s about right. Zed has looked better than Djokovic this HC swing and based on that alone you could say he’s favourite but due to Djokovic always finding the extra gear plus his hard to finish off makes the odds about right
Yeah that sounds right. Novak sort of played the best combination of ppl en route to SF...clean and aggressive hitting of Kei, hostile crowd and quirky consistency of Brooksby, and huge serve and forehand of Berry. The only thing that remains to be seen is if he can apply what he learned in those matches into one cohesive performance, and if he has the energy.
 

DjokoLand

Hall of Fame
Yeah that sounds right. Novak sort of played the best combination of ppl en route to SF...clean and aggressive hitting of Kei, hostile crowd and quirky consistency of Brooksby, and huge serve and forehand of Berry. The only thing that remains to be seen is if he can apply what he learned in those matches into one cohesive performance, and if he has the energy.
Exactly. I was worried after the 1st against Matteo but after that was a great performance. Zed has sets where he peaks but also has ones where he is awful. Against Harris the 1st was terrible yet Harris just wouldn’t take it when the 2nd was top level.
If Zed wants to start the 1st like he did against Harris he will be a set down and in serious trouble
 

Pandaman

Semi-Pro
Thank you for being courteous. It's rare to see civility on these boards.
As soon as you disagree with someone's opinion, people here ATTACK the poster and not the argument.
To be fair, the clueless Vamos Rafa offers no argument other than desperation and insecurity, so it's hard not to attack him :-D :laughing:
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
It would be great if Djoker won the first set for a change.

There is value with Zed here. This is his second deep run in the U.S. More experienced. Now with Olympic Gold. Will not likely mentally break down. Match will be close.

Caesars Sportsbook lists Djokovic as the -225 favorite (risk $225 to win $100) in its latest Djokovic vs. Zverev odds, while Zverev is the +175 underdog
 

Pandaman

Semi-Pro
Exactly. I was worried after the 1st against Matteo but after that was a great performance. Zed has sets where he peaks but also has ones where he is awful. Against Harris the 1st was terrible yet Harris just wouldn’t take it when the 2nd was top level.
If Zed wants to start the 1st like he did against Harris he will be a set down and in serious trouble
Me too. I wrote him off, even on the boards, after it. I said he's not gonna have energy to beat Zverev now. I'm still weary of it and disgusted with his performance in that first set (77 mins?!). I just have to imagine he knows something we don't, despite having a lot more cumulative miles than traveling the long roads at AO and French. It's evident in the way he's talking in his pressers.

Edit: the funniest part is that even after the my frustration of the first set, I Was talking as if Novak was still gonna win XD
 

martinezownsclay

Hall of Fame
This is just not true. It is your belief but that doesn't make it true. Medvedev can definitely defeat Djokovic on Sunday if that is his opponent. But his opponent will be Zverev.
Well considering my predictions are right 50x more often than yours, my belief does make it true. What I say is right, what you say is wrong. And for the record I can't stand any of Djokovic, Medvedev, or Zverev so I have no horse in this race. On a personal level they are 3 deplorables for me.
 

DjokoLand

Hall of Fame
Me too. I wrote him off, even on the boards, after it. I said he's not gonna have energy to beat Zverev now. I'm still weary of it and disgusted with his performance in that first set. I just have to imagine he knows something we don't, despite having a lot more cumulative miles than long roads in AO and French. It's evident in the way he's talking in his pressers.
See even the Olympics against Zverev he was *3-2 up in the 2nd cruising and then Zverev got much better and Djokovic dropped.
Djokovic has 4 titles this year a 250 and 3 slams he obviously he smart at conserving energy as he’s 34. He always steps up later in slams, this USO I was worried he didn’t have the extra level but the 2-4th set of the Matteo match gave me a lot of confidence.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
FAA the choker got blown out by Med. Match long over.
Does Djoker match start exactly at 7:00 p.m. NYC time?
Or will there be a delay?
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
Actually he can beat him. Med BO3 against Djokovic is great. He had the worst performance in a GS F at the AO but that doesn’t mean it will happen here. Also Djokovic record here is nowhere near the AO
Everyone can theoretically beat everyone. Djoko is the most clutch player in recent memory. No way he's losing to Medvedev - a guy who's laid an egg for more than 2 sets of his first slam final and all 3 sets in his 2nd slam final. What's Medvedev gonna hurt Djokovic with in best of five on the cusp of history?
If Djoko loses, it's because the moment somehow got to him, which I very much doubt it will.
 

Pandaman

Semi-Pro
Well considering my predictions are right 50x more often than yours, my belief does make it true. What I say is right, what you say is wrong. And for the record I can't stand any of Djokovic, Medvedev, or Zverev so I have no horse in this race. On a personal level they are 3 deplorables for me.
This is about as unbiased of an indictment of Vamos Ralph as you're gonna get, in case any of you think those of us calling him out are salty Djoker fans. Saying Zverev or Medvedev is gonna win isn't the issue.
FAA the choker got blown out by Med. Match long over.
Does Djoker match start exactly at 7:00 p.m. NYC time?
Or will there be a delay?
**** Felix. It'll probably be 10 mins after.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Everyone can theoretically beat everyone. Djoko is the most clutch player in recent memory. No way he's losing to Medvedev - a guy who's laid an egg for more than 2 sets of his first slam final and all 3 sets in his 2nd slam final. What's Medvedev gonna hurt Djokovic with in best of five on the cusp of history?
If Djoko loses, it's because the moment somehow got to him, which I very much doubt it will.
It is called incremental progress. Med is 25 years old. Has lost two slam finals when younger. Will be much closer next time. That has been the typical progression for the last 50 years of tennis history... And Djoker, while supremely fit, is not getting any younger. Has played many more hours than Med.
 

Pandaman

Semi-Pro
Medvedev is a big favorite for the title right now. FRESH and in GREAT FORM.
I would've said the same thing at AO when Novak spent 3.5-4 more hours on court than Medvedev with an abdominal strain, and you saw what happened. I'll root for him to win if Zverev beats Novak...while I cry myself to sleep.

Medvedev also looked out of place a few times at the net today. He's looked pretty good this summer otherwise, so it's noteworthy that tactic is still in play if Novak is in the final.
 

DjokoLand

Hall of Fame
Everyone can theoretically beat everyone. Djoko is the most clutch player in recent memory. No way he's losing to Medvedev - a guy who's laid an egg for more than 2 sets of his first slam final and all 3 sets in his 2nd slam final. What's Medvedev gonna hurt Djokovic with in best of five on the cusp of history?
If Djoko loses, it's because the moment somehow got to him, which I very much doubt it will.
Med actually has loads to hurt Djokovic. I’m a huge Djokovic fan but players like Med, RBA and Busta are his least favourite matches. Djokovic is the best at using others pace and would prefer a big hitter than a solid wall. Djokovic does have the mental hold over next gen in best of 5 and seems to have better fitness but Med is still always tough for him
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
Med actually has loads to hurt Djokovic. I’m a huge Djokovic fan but players like Med, RBA and Busta are his least favourite matches. Djokovic is the best at using others pace and would prefer a big hitter than a solid wall. Djokovic does have the mental hold over next gen in best of 5 and seems to have better fitness but Med is still always tough for him
Sorry to be the one to tell you that Djok won’t quite have enough on Sunday.
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
It is called incremental progress. Med is 25 years old. Has lost two slam finals when younger. Will be much closer next time. That has been the typical progression for the last 50 years of tennis history... And Djoker, while supremely fit, is not getting any younger. Has played many more hours than Med.
And when was more hours ever a problem for Djoko? Very, very seldom. Med has to play perfect for 3+ hours to have a chance come Sunday and even that will most likely not be enough.
25 is not exactly a youngster, nor was he a youngster in his two previous finals. At 25 Borg, Becker, McEnroe, Wilander and Edberg had the vast majority of their slams behind them (since you're quoting the last 50 years of tennis history).
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
And when was more hours ever a problem for Djoko? Very, very seldom
Tokyo collapse was almost certainly fatigue. Zverev raised his level but that still does not fully explain Tokyo. Djoker himself said he was physically exhausted after Tokyo. Along with injuries. Djoker also looked fatigued against Brooksby. But Brooksby is not in shape and collapsed physically and mentally.

Mac lost his first couple of SF and F major appearances over two to three years. So Zed is pretty much on track to break through. But Zed needs to step up now at age 24.

Not saying he will win but cannot see a blowout here. There is also relatively little pressure on him.
 
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Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
Med actually has loads to hurt Djokovic. I’m a huge Djokovic fan but players like Med, RBA and Busta are his least favourite matches. Djokovic is the best at using others pace and would prefer a big hitter than a solid wall. Djokovic does have the mental hold over next gen in best of 5 and seems to have better fitness but Med is still always tough for him
Mental hold in best of five? Sure. " “Playing the young guys, I would prefer best of 5 to best of 3. I feel I am fit, I have more experience. It doesn’t guarantee me the win, but I feel like I’m in a better position. The more it goes, the more I feel I am able to wear them down,” the Serb concluded. "

Let me ask you this: Do you expect Med to be able to beat Djoko in straights? I suppose not.
In 4? That's essentially the only way he can win, cause he ain't winning the 5th.

2-7 is Med's record in the 5th. Djoko's 35-10 and iirc, he's won the last 12+ 5th sets, he's played. Last defeat is probably to Stan the Man at the AO 14 (didn't look it up, but don't think I'm wrong). Stats people - help please
 

Hitman

Talk Tennis Guru
Mental hold in best of five? Sure. " “Playing the young guys, I would prefer best of 5 to best of 3. I feel I am fit, I have more experience. It doesn’t guarantee me the win, but I feel like I’m in a better position. The more it goes, the more I feel I am able to wear them down,” the Serb concluded. "

Let me ask you this: Do you expect Med to be able to beat Djoko in straights? I suppose not.
In 4? That's essentially the only way he can win, cause he ain't winning the 5th.

2-7 is Med's record in the 5th. Djoko's 35-10 and iirc, he's won the last 12+ 5th sets, he's played. Last defeat is probably to Stan the Man at the AO 14 (didn't look it up, but don't think I'm wrong). Stats people - help please
Thiem beat Djokovic last in five sets at RG 2019.
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
Tokyo collapse was almost certainly fatigue. Zverev raised his level but that still does not fully explain Tokyo. Djoker himself said he was physically exhausted after Tokyo. Along with injuries. Djoker also looked fatigued against Brooksby.

Mac lost his first couple of SF and F major appearances over two to three years. So Zed is pretty much on track to break through.
Zed and Mac? I thought we were talking about the 25 year old Med. Zed's on track yeah, though he's major progress has been extremely slow compared to his Masters level.

"Tokyo collapse was almost certainly fatigue."
Sure, I'll give you Tokyo. But he's been resting ever since. And playing better, the longer the match goes - as he has been all US Open - isn't a sign of a man who suffers from fatigue. It's a sign of a man who knows how to outlast, outgrind and outthink his opponents. In Roddick's words: First he takes their legs, then he takes their soul.

Z has a little chance, in theory, in a few minutes (but has he ever beaten a top-10 in a slam? I think not). And as Steve Tignor writes: " he was still showing the same nervous tendencies—on his second serve and his forehand—that cost him last year’s final " - he can't afford that vs. Djoko and I personally have zero belief that he won't show those tendencies should he somehow get a serious lead.
 

DjokoLand

Hall of Fame
Mental hold in best of five? Sure. " “Playing the young guys, I would prefer best of 5 to best of 3. I feel I am fit, I have more experience. It doesn’t guarantee me the win, but I feel like I’m in a better position. The more it goes, the more I feel I am able to wear them down,” the Serb concluded. "

Let me ask you this: Do you expect Med to be able to beat Djoko in straights? I suppose not.
In 4? That's essentially the only way he can win, cause he ain't winning the 5th.

2-7 is Med's record in the 5th. Djoko's 35-10 and iirc, he's won the last 12+ 5th sets, he's played. Last defeat is probably to Stan the Man at the AO 14 (didn't look it up, but don't think I'm wrong). Stats people - help please
That’s all well at good but them stats about Djokovic are over his whole career and Medvedev is fresh plus has beat Djokovic plenty of times. Yes BO5 benefits Djokovic but you are playing it down like it’s going to be a dead cert. Djokovic will be favourite but it be a hard match
 
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