Davis Cup is (soon to be) dead, long live Davis Cup?

Red Rick said:
Nadal won it 4 times. Djokovic played it after he won it. Murray was balls deep in Davis Cup as recently as 2016, he only missed the tie between Wimbledon and the Olympics. The Suisse dudes are the only ones that have abandoned it totally after winning it once.
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Yes. I generalized. There are two group of players. The "win it once and leave", and the others.
Though Nadal won it 4 times, he did not play every year and every tie he could (injuries, calendar prioritization, etc.).
Murray nearly always played. It speaks well about his love to his country (Scotland, Great Britain, UK?), that in spite of winning it in 2015 he played in 2016, where Great Britain lost in semis. I remember his epic match with Delpo, he lost in the fifth set.
Federer played it at the beginning of his career, then left, and finally decided to play it again in 2014, finally winning taking advantage of Stan the Man reloaded, the later version of Wawrinka.
 
Tiki-Taka said:
Apart from last August, that hasn't happened in a while. Zizou's team is the definition of arrogance by the way. :p
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Since you didn't understand me the first time, I will repeat myself: "Tell that arrogant piece of **** to get his feet off of Real Madrid's home trophy, and find the correct orifice of his body to stick that fine cigar into."

:D
 
Tennis_Hands said:
Since you didn't understand me the first time, I will repeat myself: "Tell that arrogant piece of **** to get his feet off of Real Madrid's home trophy, and find the correct orifice of his body to stick that fine cigar into."

:D
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Real classy, Tennis_Hands. But still I promise I won't be talking like that on the day roles are reversed. :)
 
RIP DAVIS CUP : 1900-2018

president-nixon-hosted-a-white-house-luncheon-211-for-members-of-the-picture-id515041366


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DavisCup1995.jpg



sweden-1975.bmp


695140-switzerland-s-roger-federer-reacts-after-he-defeated-france-s-richard-gasquet-during-their-davis-cup.jpg
 
Anything that gets rid of this format of DC is fine by me. The above pics are nice, but the event hasn't been truly relevant for a while now, and it is/was going nowhere anyway.
 
Tiki-Taka said:
Real classy, Tennis_Hands. But still I promise I won't be talking like that on the day roles are reversed. :)
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I actually can appreciate Pique, the football player (though I rarely watch football these days).

It just is disrespectful towards the sport he is part of to pose like that.

Can you imagine Federer to put his feet on the Wimbledon trophy?

The closest we know, including the cigar etc is Boris, and he is not exactly a paragon of good taste or self-conduct.

:cool:
 
merlinpinpin said:
Davis Cup set to be revamped into World Cup-style tournament

It is hoped the new event would be played in one location over seven days at the end of each season.
The Davis Cup is set to be transformed into an 18-nation World Cup-style tournament under new proposals put forward by the International Tennis Federation.

It is hoped the new event, named the World Cup of Tennis Finals, would feature the game’s leading international stars and be played in one location over seven days at the end of each season.

It would involve a round-robin stage with the top eight teams moving forward to knock-out rounds.

The proposal has been unanimously endorsed by the ITF board of directors and will be submitted for approval at the annual general meeting in Orlando, Florida in August.

The ITF has announced a 25-year partnership, worth three billion US dollars, with investment group Kosmos to fund the tournament. The federation says “several world-class cities” have already expressed interest in hosting the event.

ITF president David Haggerty said: “This is a complete game-changer for the ITF and for tennis. Our vision is to create a major season-ending finale that will be a festival of tennis and entertainment, featuring the world’s greatest players representing their nations to decide the Davis Cup champions.

“This new partnership will not only create a true World Cup of Tennis, but will also unlock record levels of new investment for future generations of tennis players and fans around the world.”

Matches would consist of two singles rubbers and one doubles, over best-of-three sets.

The event will also feature a play-off round which will allow eight nations to qualify for the following year’s finals, while the current zone group competition will continue underneath that.

Barcelona and Spain footballer Gerard Pique, the founder and president of Kosmos, said: “Kosmos is thrilled to join in this exciting partnership with the ITF. Together we can elevate Davis Cup to new heights by putting on a must-see World Cup of Tennis Finals featuring the top nations and top players.”

https://www.eurosport.com/tennis/da...d-cup-style-tournament_sto6656657/story.shtml


So, Hopman Cup with men only in the team instead of male + female players? Talk about a 'new' format, lol...
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Well the only good thing is that general meeeting has to approve this with at least 2/3 majority and chance of this happening are quiet slim. Last year even much smaller changes (from the top of the head best of 3) were not approved and I thing the only change they did was TB in fifth set.

Don't get me wrong, some changes of DC could be good. But this? This is not change, this is just destruction.
 
Red Rick said:
Nadal won it 4 times. Djokovic played it after he won it. Murray was balls deep in Davis Cup as recently as 2016, he only missed the tie between Wimbledon and the Olympics. The Suisse dudes are the only ones that have abandoned it totally after winning it once.
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Roger and Stan played one more tie after Switzerland won it in 2014 to keep Switzerland in the World Group. Nadal doesn’t play it anymore and when he did it was only in Spain. How many away ties did Nadal play? Along with more team members to choose from. Murray didn’t use to play either until recently.
 
Pagoo said:
Yep, but that won't stop the haters blaming it on Federer.:rolleyes: Berdych at 32/33 recently announced his retirement from Davis cup. Somehow 36/37 year old Federer can't stop playing Davis cup. Federer has made it clear that he's unlikely to play DC again especially since Tokyo 2020 is not in his radar.

Whatever changes the ITF is making has got nothing to do with him. It's all about the money that Pique and his associates are offering. I heard Murray and Djokovic are in favor of the proposed change. Pique met with them and Nadal last year in Madrid.
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FedHaters don’t care if Berdych doesn’t play DC because he’s not the one with the GS record hoping their fav catches. Federer’s participation in DC is nothing more than a weapon to use against Federer by haters especially since Federer started winning GSs again.
 
merlinpinpin said:
Davis Cup set to be revamped into World Cup-style tournament
Matches would consist of two singles rubbers and one doubles, over best-of-three sets.
Click to expand...

Now the Davis Cup will be so much less prestigious. Seriously, why I liked Davis Cup so much, was because of the best of five sets. Davis Cup will die now
 
I've always found that if you tune in a DC match the home crowd is into it no matter who is on the court or where it is. The atmosphere just draws you in. It's exciting.
Whatever this turns out to be I'm guessing that's going to be gone for good.

Not seeing how they're comparing this to the World Cup. I'd think the current format with elimination throughout the year is closer.

How many teams can participate? In 2016 135 countries participated according to Wikipedia. If it's going to be round robin then that's a lot of matches to get in in 1 week.
 
They might gull the members with illusory promises of big sponsorship money, but I still don't think they'll get it through.

Tornes said:
Well the only good thing is that general meeeting has to approve this with at least 2/3 majority and chance of this happening are quiet slim. Last year even much smaller changes (from the top of the head best of 3) were not approved and I thing the only change they did was TB in fifth set.

Don't get me wrong, some changes of DC could be good. But this? This is not change, this is just destruction.
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they obviously need to find new ways to milk the tennis customers as the nexgen is a complete disaster and tennis gonna go downhill so hard once fedr goat retires
 
When it rolls through the cities and countries that host ties it is extremely relevant, although beneath the level of even a Masters event obviously.

So for most far more relevant than Schwartzmann winning in Rio.

sureshs said:
Is DC relevant any more?
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I like it - I think it will give more concentrated, intense media scutiny to the Davis Cup which it deserves and it has a dedicated short window in the calendar which means we can finally have more full-strength epic Davis Cup ties.

Imgaine any combination of Fedalovic in a singles tie to decide a Davis Cup final - what an atmosphere, the world would tune in to watch that. I think BO5 should be retained if only for the final though.
 
So... basically it's the world team cup, which failed and went under a few years ago

Why would this be any different? The players who have already won still would have no incentive to play aside from playing once just for the novel experience
 
Just imagine how absurd the football World Cup would be if it took place every year?

The World Cup is also all the qualification matches that form a travelling circus.

This is exactly what the Davis Cup currently is in a far more limited and less onerous form.

And that's the part that will be lost except among the lower nations.
 
All they had to do was put ATP tour points into the existing format and everyone would have played. Say 50 points per singles win in round 1, 100 point per win in the QF, 200 points per win in the SF and 400 points per win in the final. A possible 1500 points for a player who wins every match they play through to the final, and suddenly everyone wants to play again.
 
merlinpinpin said:
Davis Cup set to be revamped into World Cup-style tournament

It is hoped the new event would be played in one location over seven days at the end of each season.
The Davis Cup is set to be transformed into an 18-nation World Cup-style tournament under new proposals put forward by the International Tennis Federation.

It is hoped the new event, named the World Cup of Tennis Finals, would feature the game’s leading international stars and be played in one location over seven days at the end of each season.

It would involve a round-robin stage with the top eight teams moving forward to knock-out rounds.

The proposal has been unanimously endorsed by the ITF board of directors and will be submitted for approval at the annual general meeting in Orlando, Florida in August.

The ITF has announced a 25-year partnership, worth three billion US dollars, with investment group Kosmos to fund the tournament. The federation says “several world-class cities” have already expressed interest in hosting the event.

ITF president David Haggerty said: “This is a complete game-changer for the ITF and for tennis. Our vision is to create a major season-ending finale that will be a festival of tennis and entertainment, featuring the world’s greatest players representing their nations to decide the Davis Cup champions.

“This new partnership will not only create a true World Cup of Tennis, but will also unlock record levels of new investment for future generations of tennis players and fans around the world.”

Matches would consist of two singles rubbers and one doubles, over best-of-three sets.

The event will also feature a play-off round which will allow eight nations to qualify for the following year’s finals, while the current zone group competition will continue underneath that.

Barcelona and Spain footballer Gerard Pique, the founder and president of Kosmos, said: “Kosmos is thrilled to join in this exciting partnership with the ITF. Together we can elevate Davis Cup to new heights by putting on a must-see World Cup of Tennis Finals featuring the top nations and top players.”

https://www.eurosport.com/tennis/da...d-cup-style-tournament_sto6656657/story.shtml


So, Hopman Cup with men only in the team instead of male + female players? Talk about a 'new' format, lol...
Click to expand...


Chris Kermode and the ITF guy are obsessed with the fact that the tennis audience is 'old', second only to golf. They position young people as having a short attention span and therefore unable to cope with 5-set matches and so tennis has to be changed to suit this alleged demographic. Next Gen and tie break tens or whatever it was called are supposed to be more attractive to 'youth'. Matches are said to be too long, but instead of having faster courts etc., they tinker about with the scoring system. Tennis is a very stylised game and in my view turning it into something more cosmeticised and blander isn't going to attract new fans, but simply **** off the existing ones.
It's just like white clothing was considered 'old fashioned' (except at Wimby) and they said fans couldn't tell players apart; so now you have players in identical not white outfits that are usually hideous, viz. Kohlschreiber and his opponent in Dubai y'day, both wearing high viz. yellow and khaki and as indistinguishable as if they were in white.
 
Given that these men earn potentially millions of dollars for playing a game, what is the problem? Yes, they play well but it is a game. They did not cure cancer or build the Internet or revolutionize the trucking industry and food distribution. They are overgrown high school athletes with a hell of a self funded pension plan. They should leave Davis Cup alone. Go back to wooden rackets and gut strings and the injury parade would cease.
 
Red Rick said:
It's never stopped being relevant.
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Dc became irrelevant in like 1991. It was only relevant when tennis wasnt an olympic sport. Im happy the atp can see tennis is already an international event and no longer has to piggyback on "olympics"
 
Needless to say, the driving force behind this reform is money. By offering a prize money of "more than twenty million dollars" to teams qualified for these finals (but no ATP points, even if discussions could be made in this direction), the ITF hopes to attract the best players of the world, who have been giving the Davis Cup the cold shoulder alternately in recent years. It will still be necessary to convince them to return after the ATP Finals most likely to Asia, where investors concentrate the bulk of their activities. "Top players are already convinced, says David Haggerty. We do not have the agreement of all the best, but some of them, Novak Djokovic and Andy Murray in particular, have spoken positively. The feedback so far is positive, although there will always be players not to be supportive. "

Behind the scenes, it is rumored that these negotiations have accelerated as the ATP was planning to get back the dusty World Team Cup from its cardboards, a team event formerly contested (from 1978 to 2012) the week before Roland Garros, which is supposed to be resurrected, at the beginning of the year, pretty much as a curtain raiser to the Australian Open. Above all, the discussions were made in the utmost discretion, to the point that the title sponsor, BNP Paribas - who still signs a check for 11 million euros for the event each year - has not been kept informed. In lack of details on this project to make an opinion, its representatives did not wish to speak yesterday.

No more than Bernard Giudicelli, the president of the French Association, who sits on the board of the ITF as the boss of the Davis Cup. It would have been appreciated, however, that he explains his vote in favor of this revolution (adopted unanimously), he who declared in the newspaper "La Nouvelle République" last November: "In the first place, I did not wish to lead to a deadly concept, such as neutral venue for finals, or even an event grouped together for a short time in the calendar. We must be careful not to cut the connection between this event and its audience, anywhere in the world. "Seven months later, he made a complete U-turn again.


https://www.lequipe.fr/Tennis/Article/La-finde-l-histoire/879702
 
Chadillac said:
Dc became irrelevant in like 1991. It was only relevant when tennis wasnt an olympic sport. Im happy the atp can see tennis is already an international event and no longer has to piggyback on "olympics"
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Davis Cup has had top 10 players fully committed every year. Just the last rubber the world #3 was there straight out of AO finals to go play on clay.

In 2016 there epic 5 setters of Murray/Nishikori, Del Potro/Murray and Del Potro/Cilic, all which ended up decisive.

The problem with Davis Cup is that it doesn't make enough money. So the organisers just ditch a perfectly good event to show tennis throughout the world for something that makes more money.

Fans are too dumb to look at tennis beyond Fedal
ITF doesn't care about tennis beyond money

It's a perfect marriage.
 
- The city expected to host the event in the first couple of seasons at least is Singapore.
- The huge remuneration means that the 100-odd players on site will collectively be earning as much as they would at a Grand Slam.
- There must be a danger of thin crowds, particularly after the novelty of the new competition has worn off. The WTA Finals – which will move to Shenhzen, China next season – have been based in Singapore for the past four years, and did not always inspire great excitement among the locals.
- The whole deal is still subject to approval at the ITF’s annual general meeting in August. But the money involved is likely to convince the required two-thirds of the participating nations to support the proposals.
- Two similar team competitions in the space of six weeks (ATP's WTC and ITF's Davis Cup) would be particularly daft, even for a sport as illogical as tennis.

Leon Smith, the British Davis Cup captain, expressed mixed emotions on Monday. “There’s still a long way to go as it requires a two-thirds majority approval,” he said. “For now, we’ll just have to keep an open mind, but we’re still passionate about Davis Cup and I - like everyone else - realise that changes need to be made to ensure its longevity and status. “One of the first things that came to mind is the loss of the home-and away-tie,” Smith added. “It [a team competition in a single city or country] works in other sports but it remains to be seen if it could work in Davis Cup. However, I do think it’s really positive that the ITF are looking at significant investment from other sources to secure the future of the competition.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/...lution-introduction-18-team-world-cup-tennis/
 
Tennis_Hands said:
[1] Melzer is right. This format will rob the competition from its uniqueness and create a bland marketing driven borefest.

[2] Also, 2/3.

[3] Also, after a whole season most/all? top players will be literally dying to participate.

[4] Didn't the national federations have a say in this?

:cool:
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[4] sure, but the DC is probably not very marketable and paying for them with it's current format in the first place.

[3] so what? as if spectators will notice the difference in level. see Laver Cup.

[2] Bo3 is fine.

[1] borefest? lol!
uniqueness? it will still be unique!

...as for home/away ties with surface choice, a mixed blessing. such conditions were hardly fair, you know.
 
van_Loederen said:
[4] sure, but the DC is probably not very marketable and paying for them with it's current format in the first place.

[3] so what? as if spectators will notice the difference in level. see Laver Cup.

[2] Bo3 is fine.

[1] borefest? lol!
uniqueness? it will still be unique!

...as for home/away ties with surface choice, a mixed blessing. such conditions were hardly fair, you know.
Click to expand...

3. Laver Cup is an exo. NUFF SAID

2. Fine for what? Cutting the drama?

1. Uniqueness of its previous format, duh

Home/away was not fair, but that was part of the charm.

And no conditions can be fair to everyone, so that goes there.

Losing the privilege to host it in various places, surfaces etc. lessens its variety, robs potential fans of watching their players inexpensively etc.

8-)
 
Tennis_Hands said:
3. Laver Cup is an exo. NUFF SAID

2. Fine for what? Cutting the drama?
Click to expand...

3. i do know that. but most people hardly noticed the difference. ...a competition for nations in tennis is quite comical anyway. so it fits.

2. most tournaments are Bo3 and the match duration is already "feature length". ...Bo5 makes for more drama mostly just because it's so overly long.

Tennis_Hands said:
1. Uniqueness of its previous format, duh
Home/away was not fair, but that was part of the charm.
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i know, but it's a mixed blessing and meanwhile apparently not even markatable anymore.

Tennis_Hands said:
Losing the privilege to host it in various places, surfaces etc. lessens its variety, robs potential fans of watching their players inexpensively etc.
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i doubt this is a big loss, giving the state of the DC and the fading interest in a national competition as such.
 
van_Loederen said:
3. i do know that. but most people hardly noticed the difference. ...a competition for nations in tennis is quite comical anyway. so it fits.

2. most tournaments are Bo3 and the match duration is already "feature length". ...Bo5 makes for more drama mostly just because it's so overly long.


i know, but it's a mixed blessing and meanwhile apparently not even markatable anymore.


i doubt this is a big loss, giving the state of the DC and the fading interest in a national competition as such.
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3. I don’t know, who those "people" you are talking about are, but I think that pretty much everyone "noticed" that Laver Cup is an exo.

2. Lucky That the Majors haven't realised that yet (but the direction the sport is heading, I wouldn't be surprised if that abomination happens to them as well. Hopefully not in my lifetime)

1. Marketable is not of interest to me as a tennis fan.

So, you basically say that it is all the same to you.

8-)
 
If you want to make Davis Cup into a multi year "World Cup" kind of thing, why not just merge it with the Olympics? Make the Olympics a team event.
 
Tennis_Hands said:
3. I don’t know, who those "people" you are talking about are, but I think that pretty much everyone "noticed" that Laver Cup is an exo.
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nope, really not everyone noticed that.
many people on this forum think that the Laver cup contributed to Nadal's "injury" and Fed's tiredness at the end of the season.
Tennis_Hands said:
2. Lucky That the Majors haven't realised that yet (but the direction the sport is heading, I wouldn't be surprised if that abomination happens to them as well. Hopefully not in my lifetime)
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erm, most tournaments are Bo3. abominations eh? o_O

Tennis_Hands said:
1. Marketable is not of interest to me as a tennis fan.
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but it should be ...cause if something is not marketable, it will not be anymore at all soon.
 
van_Loederen said:
nope, really not everyone noticed that.
many people on this forum think that the Laver cup contributed to Nadal's "injury" and Fed's tiredness at the end of the season.

erm, most tournaments are Bo3. abominations eh? o_O


but it should be ...cause if something is not marketable, it will not be anymore at all soon.
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I take issue with you backing your statements, mostly because there is no such a thing.

"Most tournaments" are not called Majors, do not take place in the course of two weeks etc etc, and, yes, are not as prestigious as the Majors, one of the reasons being the format of the Majors.

I would like to make a point that whether something will happen is a multifaceted event ( not only marketing).

Blaming the format of the Davis Cup for supposedly low popularity is a cheap trick to use presented issues to turn the tournament to a more profits driven event, and while that might please the businesses involved I feel that it comes at a steep price for the tennis fans.

Besides, I don't know, if you have been to Davis Cup matches, but they are a lot more visited than most of the tennis tournaments, especially at places that do not host premier events, so there must be something right there.

:cool:
 
Am I right in thinking that the three weeks/weekends in Feb, April and September saved for 1st round/QF/SF of the current DC would instead be used for tournaments? Which would mean ATP WTF being played in October - 3 weeks before it's current slot in November and then a week's rest followed by this new style Tennis World cup?
 
reaper said:
All they had to do was put ATP tour points into the existing format and everyone would have played. Say 50 points per singles win in round 1, 100 point per win in the QF, 200 points per win in the SF and 400 points per win in the final. A possible 1500 points for a player who wins every match they play through to the final, and suddenly everyone wants to play again.
Click to expand...
Seems that you're right, it's an easy and effective way. But the officials don't like easy and effective, they want to change good old Davis Cup to farce.
 
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