Davis Cup Stats are a lie

nolefam_2024

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Davis cup used to be an important event. Rafael Nadal was celebrated for being part of 4 DC championships. Let's see how much each of the big 3* won for their country.

Federer won 40 matches for Switzerland
Djokovic won 38 matches for Serbia
Cilic won 33 matches for Croatia
Murray won 32 matches for GB
Nadal won 29 matches for Spain.
Del Potro 14 matches for Argentina

As we can see Nadal played less matches than 4 other players in this same era. First 4 combined won 4 DC.
Rafael Nadal won 4 DC.

Is Nadal 4 times better than these players? Or is count of DC titles not criteria for Greatness and just if players won or not.
 
All of these have DC. Even if I humor your argument.
If DC is more important than WTF, there are many countries with non ATP finals champs having a DC title.
 
We also need to look at the win rate though. For example, Roger's combined singles-doubles record is 52-18, Djokovic is 38-7, but Nadal's is a staggering 29-1.

I guess this goes to show that Federer is the most loyal, Nadal is the most selective but when it mattered he delivered.

Does Nadal "deserve" the 4 Davis Cup titles though? Are Davis Cup stats a lie? Well, I don't think any sane person gives a player credit for a Davis Cup win to the point where they think he alone won the cup for them. So, to answer the question, Nadal alone doesn't deserve the four Davis Cup titles, it shouldn't be credited to the player alone, and to present it in that way is lying. Every sensible person knows it's about the country, not the player. But has he played an important part, especially in 2004 where he beat Roddick in the final and in 2011 where he won every rubber in the semis and final? Definitely.

Spain fully deserved the four titles and Nadal contributed to their victory when it mattered - would be the fairest way to put it.
 
Clay lover said:
We also need to look at the win rate though. For example, Roger's combined singles-doubles record is 52-18, Djokovic is 38-7, but Nadal's is a staggering 29-1.

I guess this goes to show that Federer is the most loyal, Nadal is the most selective but when it mattered he delivered.

Does Nadal "deserve" the 4 Davis Cup titles though? Are Davis Cup stats a lie? Well, I don't think any sane person gives a player credit for a Davis Cup win to the point where they think he alone won the cup for them. So, to answer the question, Nadal alone doesn't deserve the four Davis Cup titles, it shouldn't be credited to the player alone, and to present it in that way is lying. Every sensible person knows it's about the country, not the player. But has he played an important part, especially in 2004 where he beat Roddick in the final and in 2011 where he won every rubber in the semis and final? Definitely.

Spain fully deserved the four titles and Nadal contributed to their victory when it mattered - would be the fairest way to put it.
Click to expand...
Very fair comment.
 
Clay lover said:
We also need to look at the win rate though. For example, Roger's combined singles-doubles record is 52-18, Djokovic is 38-7, but Nadal's is a staggering 29-1.

I guess this goes to show that Federer is the most loyal, Nadal is the most selective but when it mattered he delivered.

Does Nadal "deserve" the 4 Davis Cup titles though? Are Davis Cup stats a lie? Well, I don't think any sane person gives a player credit for a Davis Cup win to the point where they think he alone won the cup for them. So, to answer the question, Nadal alone doesn't deserve the four Davis Cup titles, it shouldn't be credited to the player alone, and to present it in that way is lying. Every sensible person knows it's about the country, not the player. But has he played an important part, especially in 2004 where he beat Roddick in the final and in 2011 where he won every rubber in the semis and final? Definitely.

Spain fully deserved the four titles and Nadal contributed to their victory when it mattered - would be the fairest way to put it.
Click to expand...
Nadal rarely showed up outside of Spain IIRC. For sure he contributed heavily to some of the wins regardless.
 
RS said:
2019 is the most impressive because it felt like Nadal carried it in a way :p. The rest Nadal had a big role too but Spain had a greater team for it.
Click to expand...
From 2019 it isn't actually Davis Cup anymore. Not surprised Nadal carrying in a joke format against joke opponents impressed you though.
 
Since we compare players by their singles record(s), that's what we should factor in.
Then, how much does it factor in? Not all that much, to be honest, although 29-1 is quite impressive!

Team success is team success.
I will say that Andy Murray is a terrific player when representing GB in the Olympics (2 singles golds) and in Davis Cup, where he almost singlehandedly carried them to a championship in...2015.
 
RaulRamirez said:
Since we compare players by their singles record(s), that's what we should factor in.
Then, how much does it factor in? Not all that much, to be honest, although 29-1 is quite impressive!

Team success is team success.
I will say that Andy Murray is a terrific player when representing GB in the Olympics (2 singles golds) and in Davis Cup, where he almost singlehandedly carried them to a championship in...2015.
Click to expand...
Andy Murray is probably only guy. His time second seed was Evans who was out of top 40.

Federer had Wawrinka
Nole has Tisparevic
Rafa had too many players
Cilic had Coric and few others
Not sure about Delpo but he must have Diego.
 
NatF said:
Nadal rarely showed up outside of Spain IIRC. For sure he contributed heavily to some of the wins regardless.
Click to expand...
Spain has won the DC 6 times, in 5 of which Rafa participated. The only time Spain has won the Davis Cup without Rafa's participation was in 2000 when Rafa was 14 years old. Spain has never won without Rafa since he turned pro. They even got relegated without him and they needed him to move back up again.
 
nachiket nolefam said:
Andy Murray is probably only guy. His time second seed was Evans who was out of top 40.

Federer had Wawrinka
Nole has Tisparevic
Rafa had too many players
Cilic had Coric and few others
Not sure about Delpo but he must have Diego.
Click to expand...
But Spain got relegated when Rafa couldn't play and they've never won it without him since he turned pro. Before that Spain had only won the DC once in 2000 when Rafa was 14 years old.
 
LOL, the moment it is a team tournament , the titles take first place and individual records come later

Feliciano Lopez May have won 50 plus matches every major but it is the one USO that Raducanu won that people remember

Djokovic and RF are not comparable to RN
 
tennis3 said:
Davis Cup is more important than WTF
Click to expand...
WRONG! The DC is a team event. Spain had a better overall team than Serbia and most other countries, especially on clay courts. Also, many top players don't compete in DC today as they did until the late nineties, or so.
 
NatF said:
From 2019 it isn't actually Davis Cup anymore. Not surprised Nadal carrying in a joke format against joke opponents impressed you though.
Click to expand...
Hmm. In 2019, Rafa defeated Shapovalov to clinch the Davis Cup title for Spain.
www.atptour.com

Rafael Nadal Clinches Davis Cup Title For Spain With Win Against Denis Shapovalov | ATP Tour | Tennis

Rafael Nadal, the year-end World No. 1, finished his season on a high by leading Spain to its sixth Davis Cup title. Nadal defeated Denis Shapovalov 6-3, 7-6(7) to clinch Spain’s 2-0 win against Canada.
www.atptour.com www.atptour.com

Spain's King Felipe VI hugs Rafa after Spain won the 2019 DC title:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1198740441417605120
 
clayqueen said:
The only time Spain has won the Davis Cup without Rafa's participation was in 2000 when Rafa was 14 years old. Spain has never won without Rafa since he turned pro
Click to expand...
And it was a big deal! Playing every single tie on clay in Spain helped a lot of course (especially vs Russia and Australia)

Corretja and especially Ferrero carried the team hard
 
For me best one I saw was live during Serbia vs India playoffs. India won both matches I attended in dramatic fashion over 5 sets. Should have stayed for 1 more now I feel. Ofcourse Djokovic didn't come.
 
nachiket nolefam said:
Davis cup used to be an important event. Rafael Nadal was celebrated for being part of 4 DC championships. Let's see how much each of the big 3* won for their country.

Federer won 40 matches for Switzerland
Djokovic won 38 matches for Serbia
Cilic won 33 matches for Croatia
Murray won 32 matches for GB
Nadal won 29 matches for Spain.
Del Potro 14 matches for Argentina

As we can see Nadal played less matches than 4 other players in this same era. First 4 combined won 4 DC.
Rafael Nadal won 4 DC.

Is Nadal 4 times better than these players? Or is count of DC titles not criteria for Greatness and just if players won or not.
Click to expand...
Of course Davis Cup titles as such don't mean much. In team competitions it's about circumstances. If your teammates aren't good enough, you cannot win anything with the team.

Just like in classic team sports like football/soccer or basketball etc. winning titles with the team cannot mean much when talking about who is individual GOAT.
 
NatF said:
Nadal rarely showed up outside of Spain IIRC.
Click to expand...
our ultimate warrior bravely showed up when spain was receiving bhutan and liechtenstein on clay:
his absence when spain faced USA and argentina indoors is most certainly an unfortunate coincidence :unsure:

funny-animals-bunny.gif
 
Remove Nadal from the equation. I would seriously doubt Spain has 5 DC, 1 at best.

Djokovic, Federer, and Murray did not play all ties either.
 
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