Davydenko: The top players of the younger generation are not that good technically.

[abmk]

I’d say Berretini has a better FH than Pushdick. 03-05 version equal.

berr fails with his fh when moved around.
roddick fh >> berr fh against top level opponents

 

[spottishwood]

Another "new user", great.

The popularity of this board has increased, no?

 

[abmk]

Roddick never beat anyone worth noting at anything. At least Med beat tired Nole.

Andre Agassi led Roddick, 5-1. It's history, and it shows you what Roddick was really worth.

what?
Roddick beat Nalby (>> 21 USO final Nole), Ferrero (> 21 USO final Nole by some distance), Ljubicic and Henman in USO 03 alone.
Med's draw in USO 21 with worst level djokovic is a joke compared to Roddick's USO 03.
Ferrero had beaten Agassi and Hewitt b2b to make the final.

Roddick beat Hewitt+murray at Wim 09
Ancic in 04, TJ at Wim 05
Djokovic in AO 09
etc.

sorry, your tennis knowledge about this/bias against Roddick is just sad

 

[Breakpointerer]

Aabey5 looking like a garden variety troll in this thread.

Guy becomes an absolute caricature whenever anything related to Fed gets brought up

 

[Novichok]

Guy becomes an absolute caricature whenever anything related to Fed gets brought up

No doubt.

Spoiler

 

[spottishwood]

Aabey5 looking like a garden variety troll in this thread.

He should just let it go now LOL.

 

[mistik]

He just say what we all see anyway. There is nothing controversial in what he said.

 

[mike danny]

Mike, you only answer the part you want. If you don't accord me the same respect that I accorded you, there is no sense in talking.

When you finally answer my question, I will be sure to quote and reply. I doubt you will, because it will put your arguments on a slippery slope.

I did answer them, don't really know why you're getting riled up.

 

[mike danny]

Somewhat convincing case to be made that Hewitt was a bigger rival than Roddick for 2004/2005 even.

Unfortunately, a lot of people on the internet think Roddick was Fed's main rival.

 

[mike danny]

Agreed, it’s not just about accomplishments……so it helps that Nadal ALSO played Federer more competitively than Roddick did WHILE being the greater player.

The gap in accomplishments do matter here, though, because they’re direct contemporaries lol….Nadal 05/Roddick 05 can thus be compared as they played in the same set of conditions. 05 Roddick and 21 Med certainly can’t.



it’s cherry-picking if you still maintain that Roddick was Fed’s main rival from 2004-2007, something you claimed. If you don’t maintain that, then you’re pivoting to something else.

From 04-07 Roddick was Fed’s main rival in 2004 at most. On the aggregate it was Nadal, and by a lot.

Who would even call Roddick a main rival in 2004-2005 when Fed played Hewitt and Agassi more often during that period?

 

[mike danny]

Roddick never beat anyone worth noting at anything. At least Med beat tired Nole.

Andre Agassi led Roddick, 5-1. It's history, and it shows you what Roddick was really worth.

Roddick beat Ferrero at the USO who wasn't worse than 2021 Nole and beat Murray at 2009 Wimb. Also pushed Fed really hard at 2004 and 2009 Wimb's.

I already covered the Roddick vs Agassi case, which you conveniently ignore. And it's not the same as Med's H2H with Nadal.

 

[mike danny]

what?
Roddick beat Nalby (>> 21 USO final Nole), Ferrero (> 21 USO final Nole by some distance), Ljubicic and Henman in USO 03 alone.
Med's draw in USO 21 with worst level djokovic is a joke compared to Roddick's USO 03.
Ferrero had beaten Agassi and Hewitt b2b to make the final.

Roddick beat Hewitt+murray at Wim 09
Ancic in 04, TJ at Wim 05
Djokovic in AO 09
etc.

sorry, your tennis knowledge about this/bias against Roddick is just sad

Don't forget that he also beat Grosjean at 2005 Wimb, better than anyone Med faced pre-final at 2021 USO.

 

[NatF]

Who would even call Roddick a main rival in 2004-2005 when Fed played Hewitt and Agassi more often during that period?

Those years were a lot more surface dependent, Hewitt/Roddick - were the main rivals on grass, on HC it was Hewitt/Agassi/Safin. Hewitt was Federer's most consistent opponent in 2004-2005 across multiple surfaces and in 2006 it switched to Rafa.

 

[mike danny]

Those years were a lot more surface dependent, Hewitt/Roddick - were the main rivals on grass, on HC it was Hewitt/Agassi/Safin. Hewitt was Federer's most consistent opponent in 2004-2005 across multiple surfaces and in 2006 it switched to Rafa.

Yeah, Roddick wasn't his main rival at any point, whether it's 2003-2005 or 2004-2007.

 

[Born_to_slice]

Then what would explain their lack of success? These physical beasts, equipped with 23 year old legs and energy, and technical mastery of the game, somehow keep losing to mid-30s players because... because why exactly?

Because potential small time/medium ATGs are not at the level of the greatest who ever played, duh.

 

[NatF]

Yeah, Roddick wasn't his main rival at any point, whether it's 2003-2005 or 2004-2007.

In ranking terms you could say he was in 2003/2004 (being two sets away from taking the number one ranking in 2004 at Wimbledon) but otherwise no. What you had in 2004-2007 was a more varied era with stratified competition taking turns in their best conditions.

 

[mike danny]

In ranking terms you could say he was in 2003/2004 (being two sets away from taking the number one ranking in 2004 at Wimbledon) but otherwise no. What you had in 2004-2007 was a more varied era with stratified competition taking turns in their best conditions.

True, but in 2004-2007 he still faced consistent competition from the guys you'd expect to face him.

 

[mike danny]

Because potential small time/medium ATGs are not at the level of the greatest who ever played, duh.

They're not that good by any stretch.

How did Murray, Stan and Safin managed to win 7 slams off these guys?

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Nice nonresponse.

You didn't answer the question... Are you saying Murray and Wawrinka aren't better than Tsits, Zverev & Co? They clearly are and didn't ''grow up'' with the records of these three already set in stone, Wawrinka is older than Nadal and Djokovic and Murray is Djokovic's age. The point I was making that you chose to ignore is that the younger gen are intimidated by the records and having to beat the big 3 for a slam. Yes, Murray did it and Wawrinka did it multiple times, they are a cut above the next gen.

 

[Tennfan123]

I think Safin was very good on Clay.

 

[spottishwood]

I think Safin was very good on Clay.

Of Course. He had gruelling battles with the best clay courter of his generation, Guga Kuerten. He was the one who beat him in RG'98 where Guga was the defending champion and he also beat the future champion Agassi. Had amazing matches in Early 2000s also. Hamburg 2000 is the most memorable one.

 

[Aabye5]

Roddick beat Ferrero at the USO who wasn't worse than 2021 Nole and beat Murray at 2009 Wimb. Also pushed Fed really hard at 2004 and 2009 Wimb's.

I already covered the Roddick vs Agassi case, which you conveniently ignore. And it's not the same as Med's H2H with Nadal.

What the heck? JCF was worse than Murray at Wimbledon. JCF losing at the French Open in 2022 is more similar.

It is the same. I'm sorry, you just refuse to see it because it hurts feelings. Why is it not the same?

 

[spottishwood]

 

[mike danny]

What the heck? JCF was worse than Murray at Wimbledon. JCF losing at the French Open in 2022 is more similar.

Ferrero got to that final by beating Hewitt and Agassi back to back. Sure, he didn't play a good final, but just saying that neither did 2021 Djokovic.

It is the same. I'm sorry, you just refuse to see it because it hurts feelings. Why is it not the same?

It's not the same because all of the Meddal matches took place during Med's prime, while 3 of the Rodassi matches didn't take place in Roddick's prime and in 2 of those Roddick was only 18.

 

[Aabye5]

what?
Roddick beat Nalby (>> 21 USO final Nole), Ferrero (> 21 USO final Nole by some distance), Ljubicic and Henman in USO 03 alone.
Med's draw in USO 21 with worst level djokovic is a joke compared to Roddick's USO 03.
Ferrero had beaten Agassi and Hewitt b2b to make the final.

Roddick beat Hewitt+murray at Wim 09
Ancic in 04, TJ at Wim 05
Djokovic in AO 09
etc.

sorry, your tennis knowledge about this/bias against Roddick is just sad

Ljubicic ain't better than anyone. If you use him as part your answer you are grasping for st. Ruud was better than Ljubicic. And except for that year little Timmy did jack off of grass. He didn't even reach a QF at any of the other Slams. Did anyone of you watch tennis at the time? Tim Henman and Ljubicic! Be afraid.

Med's draw was a joke though, although Nole's was not. Berrettini/Zverev/Medvedev are hard than Nalbandian/Ferrero.

 

[TheFifthSet]

Ok, you are saying this:

2004: Roddick
2005: Agassi
2006: Nadal
2007: Nadal

Interesting...

It’s like I’m talking to Cathy Newman or something. No, what? I’ve been saying since what seems like time immemorial that I feel Nadal was Federer’s main rival in 2005.

 

[Aabye5]

It’s like I’m talking to Cathy Newman or something.

It's like talking to someone who never watched tennis at that time.

Why don't you go and educate your fellow Fed fans to stop using Ljubicic as an example of excellence.

 

[spottishwood]

And except for that year little Timmy did jack off of grass. He didn't even reach a QF at any of the other Slams.

Do you realize that he made Roland Garros semis in 2004? How can you not know that lol. Dude was quite famous for S&Ving his way to RG semis.

 

[Aabye5]

That's the point...you don't have to be exceptional to win slams when all Big-3 are playing. Murray did it (3 times), Wawrinka did it (3 times), and Cilic did it. Surely NextGens should've been able to do it...especially considering they've been facing older and continually declining Big-3s.

I agree.

But you didn't have to be exceptional when you beat Federer, either. But except for Cilic, Murray and Wawrinka are both better than Roddick...by a large margin.

 

[Aabye5]

Do you realize that he made Roland Garros semis in 2004? How can you not know that lol. Dude was quite famous for S&Ving his way to RG semis.

Yep, in that very weak era. He made it to 3 semis that year. Not unlike Cilic.

 

[TheFifthSet]

It's like talking to someone who never watched tennis at that time.

so, you? Considering you weren’t aware that Federer and Nadal were rivals as early as 2005.

 

[spottishwood]

Yep, in that very weak era. He made it to 3 semis that year. Not unlike Cilic.

So, how was 2004 worse than 2021?

EDIT: Don't have time to argue rn so I just agree to disagree.

 

[mike danny]

Yep, in that very weak era. He made it to 3 semis that year. Not unlike Cilic.

He only made it to 2 and was beaten in them anyway. Don't see what's the problem here.

 

[duaneeo]

I agree.

But you didn't have to be exceptional when you beat Federer, either.

Wrong. Unlike peak Djokovic, a peak Federer wouldn't lose to the likes of Murray, Wawrinka, Cilic, Nishikori, and a past-prime Federer at slams.

 

[mike danny]

Wrong. Unlike peak Djokovic, a peak Federer wouldn't lose to the likes of Murray, Wawrinka, Cilic, Nishikori, and a past-prime Federer at slams.

Nothing wrong with the Federer losses for Djokovic. I'd be singing a different tune of that was 2014-2016 Fed though.

 

[Aabye5]

so, you? Considering you weren’t aware that Federer and Nadal were rivals as early as 2005.

No, I watched it all live. And I remember distinctly that Federer did not consider him Rafa's rival in 2006. After Wimbledon, it was undeniable.

At the beginning of 2005, Rafa was ranked in the 50s. Is Rune a rival for Alcaraz yet?

 

[Aabye5]

Wrong. Unlike peak Djokovic, a peak Federer wouldn't lose to the likes of Murray, Wawrinka, Cilic, Nishikori, and a past-prime Federer at slams.

Murray and Wawrinka are both better than Hewitt.

 

[Aabye5]

He only made it to 2 and was beaten in them anyway. Don't see what's the problem here.

Someone is bringing Tim up as a tough draw at the US Open. He was not.

And you're right, that was one of the years he did not make it the Wimbledon semis. Weak era...

 

[Aabye5]

So, how was 2004 worse than 2021?

EDIT: Don't have time to argue rn so I just agree to disagree.

I actually never said it was worse. I just said it was a weak era (and 2021 is also a weak era).

EDIT: Roddick was not a strong opponent. That's part of the reason the era is weak.

 

[mike danny]

Someone is bringing Tim up as a tough draw at the US Open. He was not.

And you're right, that was one of the years he did not make it the Wimbledon semis. Weak era...

Don't see how that makes it a weak era but whatever.

You're probably in the mood for riling people up.

 

[Aabye5]

Don't see how that makes it a weak era but whatever.

You're probably in the mood for riling people up.

I should do an all-comers thread to take on Fed fans one at time. You must be muddying the waters on purpose...

I mentioned that Roddick won the USO over JCF. Someone said Roddick had a tough draw that included Ljubicic and Henman. That's not a tough draw.

 

[Aabye5]

You know what's interesting...stylistically, Alcaraz reminds me a lot of JCF. And stylistically, Berrettini reminds me somewhat of Roddick. Perhaps the explains why their matches are so close, although Alcaraz bring a lot more power to the table than JCF, obviously.

 

[TheFifthSet]

No, I watched it all live. And I remember distinctly that Federer did not consider him Rafa's rival in 2006. After Wimbledon, it was undeniable.

And? Federer's not God. To anyone paying attention, Nadal was more Federer's rival than Roddick was in '05.

At the beginning of 2005, Rafa was ranked in the 50s. Is Rune a rival for Alcaraz yet?

And by the end of it, he had 55% more ranking points than Roddick.

 

[mike danny]

I should do an all-comers thread to take on Fed fans one at time. You must be muddying the waters on purpose...

I mentioned that Roddick won the USO over JCF. Someone said Roddick had a tough draw that included Ljubicic and Henman. That's not a tough draw.

For rounds 1 and 2, Henman and Ljubicic certainly aren't pushovers. Tougher draw than Med's at 2021 USO.

 

[Third Serve]

Is this guy for real?

 

[TheFifthSet]

It's not chicanery. In 2005, Andre played him 4 times, Hewitt played Fed 3 times, Rafa played Fed twice, Roddick played him twice, Marat played him once.

Who is the rival? It must be Andre...the 35-year-old man.

There are a combination of factors: matches contested, competitiveness and player achievements on the year. Agassi and Federer may have played the most, but Nadal ended the year #2 and challenged Federer more than Agassi did, with three of their four matches being routine. If sheer matches played are the only factor then Ferrer was as much Nadal's rival as Djokovic was in 2013.

 

[Aabye5]

And? Federer's not God. To anyone paying attention, Nadal was more Federer's rival than Roddick was in '05.




And by the end of it, he had 55% more ranking points than Roddick.

No, no one thought Nadal was his biggest rival in 2005. It was not even clear how well he would perform on other surfaces. On clay, he clearly had Fed's number. At the time, Fed mentioned that they just had not played enough matches, and I agree with that. (Is Nadal just propoganda? )

It's wrong to use our current lens to look at this, because we know how great Rafa is as a player. He had an excellent year in 2005.

Still, Federer did not play in Rome, Canada or Shanghai that year.

 

[Roddickulous1]

Lol, guy talking about Agassi-Roddick H2H without mentioning Roddick was 17 in the 1st 2 losses and still playing juniors at the time (he won the 2000 juniors USO) and Agassi was the world number 1.

 

[TheFifthSet]

No, no one thought Nadal was his biggest rival in 2005. It was not even clear how well he would perform on other surfaces. On clay, he clearly had Fed's number. At the time, Fed mentioned that they just had not played enough matches, and I agree with that. (Is Nadal just propoganda? )

It's wrong to use our current lens to look at this, because we know how great Rafa is as a player. He had an excellent year in 2005.

Still, Federer did not play in Rome, Canada or Shanghai that year.

I did, and do.

He was ranked directly behind Fed and played him the toughest. I never saw him as a one-trick pony as some pUnDItS did so I viewed him as his most challenging rival basically from the jump (well, their third match). Roddick was a great player but beyond being a cut below Fed he was also the best possible match-up for Federer's game.

 

[abmk]

Ljubicic ain't better than anyone. If you use him as part your answer you are grasping for st. Ruud was better than Ljubicic. And except for that year little Timmy did jack off of grass. He didn't even reach a QF at any of the other Slams. Did anyone of you watch tennis at the time? Tim Henman and Ljubicic! Be afraid.

Med's draw was a joke though, although Nole's was not. Berrettini/Zverev/Medvedev are hard than Nalbandian/Ferrero.

Henman made SF of RG and USO as well.
won Paris masters as well

the only place Ruud's better than Ljubicic is clay.

Henman and Ljubicic were both early rounds.
Henman would've SnVed Med's a** off the court for one.
Also Henman was the only one to beat Roddick in summer American HC swing.

The question is whether you watched tennis at that time. Please stop making a fool out of yourself by exhibiting more and more ignorance.