Deep Impact Targets - A strategy to point construction

[onehandbh]

For awhile, it seemed like infinite baseline rallies with heavy topspin
was the path to success. Hitting angled shots and endurance was key.

It looks like some of top pros like Berdych and most recently, Federer,
are going against that trend and style and hitting lower trajectory, deeper
groundstrokes. In Federer's recent success at Dubai, it definitely looked like
he was hitting deeper and flatter shots. His backhand has been getting
attacked the past couple years and I think a lot of what made it attackable
is that he would often get caught hitting a spinny shot near the service
line. At Dubai, the deeper, more penetrating backhands not only hit more
winners but allowed him to take control of more rallies or keep it more
neutral.

Can this apply to amateur tennis as well? Possibly.

Why deeper targets?

- The biggest cause of the ball slowing down is the
collision with the surface of the court. Because the ball goes deeper, it
will travel quicker over the baseline after the bounce.

- Giving your opponent less time, means he'll be more likely to hit a shot
back with less on it or be forced to move back.

- Deeper location means that the opponent won't be able to step into the
court to take the ball earlier to be more aggressive.

- Deeper location also gives your opponent less angle to work with.

- Hitting deeper on a consistent basis, also makes your dropshots more
deadly.

- By rushing your opponent with the deeper shots, your opponent is more
likely to hit a shorter shot with less precise statement. Once you get this
shot you can be more aggressive in trying for an angled winner or another
deep shot and possibly end the point at the net.

- on defensive shots hitting deep increases your chance of staying in the
point since a lot of players don't try to end points at the net very often.

- hitting deeper on approach shots buys you more time for volley and
doesn't allow your opponent to take the ball early unless he hits a swinging
volley, which is unlikely.

------

The risk is of course hitting long beyond the baseline, but with poly strings
the spin can add a lot of safety and control.

A more level swing path can also add accuracy.

 

[sureshs]

Seems it is Smart to hit these Deep targets

 

[Cheetah]

Smart and proactive

 

[mightyrick]

That was awesome. Thanks.

Cheetah, I am sure that onehandbh definitely appreciates your endorsement.

 

[sureshs]

^^^ I see what you did there

 

[arche3]

Too much trolling on ttw. I can't keep up.

 

[PhrygianDominant]

- Deeper location means that the opponent won't be able to step into the
court to take the ball earlier to be more aggressive.

- Deeper location also gives your opponent less angle to work with.

- By rushing your opponent with the deeper shots, your opponent is more
likely to hit a shorter shot with less precise statement. Once you get this
shot you can be more aggressive in trying for an angled winner or another
deep shot and possibly end the point at the net.

- on defensive shots hitting deep increases your chance of staying in the
point since a lot of players don't try to end points at the net very often.

- hitting deeper on approach shots buys you more time for volley and
doesn't allow your opponent to take the ball early unless he hits a swinging
volley, which is unlikely.

------

The risk is of course hitting long beyond the baseline, but with poly strings
the spin can add a lot of safety and control.

A more level swing path can also add accuracy.

These are the reasons I prefer to hit deep. I might add, although it sounds like one of the previous points, that keeping your opponent behind the baseline is inherently advantageous in rec tennis, where your opponent might cough up an error at any moment. The farther back he is, the more difficult the groundstroke is, and the more likely he hits the net or hits out.

 

[boramiNYC]

Deep Push Targets? or Smartest Targets?



But really, the timing of hitting these targets are just as important for them to be effective. The surprise and panic effect adds to the Impact.

 

[sureshs]

Deep Push Targets? or Smartest Targets?

Are they smarter than the Smart Targets?

 

[Power Player]

Are they smarter than the Smart Targets?

They are Smarter and Deeper

 

[Power Player]

Power Player your posts have helped me to defeat Berdych for an ATP 500 win, thank you

You are very welcome Roger and thank you for sharing your thoughts on my thoughts as well.

 

[sureshs]

I'll tell you man. This post is absolutely awesome.

Thanks mightyrick for your kind words

 

[sureshs]

Can we arrange a match between Smart Targets vs Deep Targets and decide on a winner?

 

[boramiNYC]

Are they smarter than the Smart Targets?

Smart<Smarter<Smartest. So yeah. But, bestest might be some combination of Smart and Smartest. As Kiteboard used to say "lulz" then sting like a bee. You need both to be the bestest.

 

[Ballinbob]

Omg this is gold, made my day haha. "Thank you for sharing your thoughts on my thoughts" is too good

 

[Topspin Shot]

This thread makes my eyes smart.

 

[Cheetah]

I'm working on a system called Sharp Targets™ where you hit the corners or low skidders that paint the lines in all situations. It's a more advanced system of Deep Impact Targets.

 

[Fintft]

Also (at the risk of repeating myself), b/c like Djokovic, I have the confidence that my deep, penetrating balls will push my opponent back.
At my club I dare people in my ladder level to go into a FH duel (and even higher rated ones), while I'm striving to improve my 1H BH as well (and if there is a set where I didn't have at least a BH winner- deep and penetrating- then I'm dissapointed).

 

[Fintft]

I'm working on a system called Sharp Targets™ where you hit the corners or low skidders that paint the lines in all situations. It's a more advanced system of Deep Impact Targets.

I can only do that, regularly, with the IO FH and I do a couple per set. Not necessarily paint the lines, but getting pretty close to the corner (or at times inside the service box, angled).
Watching Dimitrov doing that (i.e. against Murray) felt gratifying.

 

[Cheetah]

I hit deep balls fairly regularly. heavy spin as well as flat. If you have enough control to do that it's more effective than a loopy short ball but you need both to mix it up and make them both more effective. Just cc smart target long rally play is... idk... not my style. I like to hurt opponents and keep them at bay and not let them get in a groove.

Hard flat deep balls straight up the middle, which is the basis of my Safe Targets™ methodology, are also very effective if hit at the right time.

 

[sureshs]

I hit deep balls fairly regularly. heavy spin as well as flat. If you have enough control to do that it's more effective than a loopy short ball but you need both to mix it up and make them both more effective. Just cc smart target long rally play is... idk... not my style. I like to hurt opponents and keep them at bay and not let them get in a groove.

Hard flat deep balls straight up the middle, which is the basis of my Safe Targets™ methodology, are also very effective if hit at the right time.

I think a separate thread is needed to collect the important comments on Safe Targets

 

[mightyrick]

I hit deep balls fairly regularly. heavy spin as well as flat. If you have enough control to do that it's more effective than a loopy short ball but you need both to mix it up and make them both more effective. Just cc smart target long rally play is... idk... not my style. I like to hurt opponents and keep them at bay and not let them get in a groove.

Hard flat deep balls straight up the middle, which is the basis of my Safe Targets™ methodology, are also very effective if hit at the right time.

I was talking to several local coaches who said they were applying your theories and techniques with great success. They wanted me to thank you for it.

 

[Cheetah]

I was talking to several local coaches who said they were applying your theories and techniques with great success. They wanted me to thank you for it.

can you ask them if they could magically appear on this forum and post about it so I could copy their comments over to the safe targets thread?
thanks.

 

[Power Player]

Ive already received 3 emails from multiple coaches who coach tennis today. They were very supportive of my poasting and one chose to send me a free vibration dampener.

 

[Cheetah]

I use Safe Targets™ all the time. I've been utilizing the system for years now and several of my students are now in the ATP. Like you said, hard down the middle solves the riddle! - R. Landsdorp.

Thanks Robert! I'm glad you've found them useful.

 

[arche3]

Thanks Robert! I'm glad you've found them useful.

You guys are too much.... lol

 

[sureshs]

Speaking of Lansdorp, I watched a TC Academy segment with him. He says he favors long backswings because they 1) provide more accuracy 2) can be shortened as needed, but those who use only short swings cannot use longer swings when appropriate.

 

[sureshs]

Someone is laughing away right now. You know why? Because "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

 

[onehandbh]

Seems it is Smart to hit these Deep targets

Deep targets are not the same as Deep Impact Targets. They don't have
the same impact. Hitting deep without pace will buy your time but won't
have the same depth of impact.

I think it is smart to hit shorter angled shots sometimes. Every shot has its
time and place. For example, if you are trying to hit a down-the-line
groundstroke, in almost every case hitting deeper will make it tougher on
your opponent. And obviously you won't get as sharp of an angle if you
hit deeper. Hitting deeper does allow you to hit harder, though, and
hitting that deep target will make your opponent smart.

 

[onehandbh]

Smart and proactive

I appreciate your endorsement.

Cheetah, I am sure that onehandbh definitely appreciates your endorsement.

I appreciate your endorsement of Cheetah's endorsement.

Can we arrange a match between Smart Targets vs Deep Targets and decide on a winner?

I appreciate all targets. I also shop at Target sometimes.
Each has its time and place.

 

[5263]

For example, if you are trying to hit a down-the-line
groundstroke, in almost every case hitting deeper will make it tougher on
your opponent. .

In what way?

 

[onehandbh]

In what way?

All things being equal except for depth, (spin, initial ball speed from racquet),
on a down-the-line shot, the deeper shot will give your opponent less time
to get to the ball. It will reach the back fence quicker.

 

[Cheetah]

Imo an approaching deep ball comes with a higher level of inherent pressure

 

[onehandbh]

Imo an approaching deep ball comes with a higher level of inherent pressure

Agreed. For those that aren't convinced, try this test with a ball machine.

Set the ball machine to hit balls deep in the corners and then try and hit
groundstrokes, running back and forth along the baseline.

Now, try the same experiment, but move the ball machine further back by
10 feet so that the balls land 10 feet shallower.

Which shots were easier to return?

Tell me if the Deep Impact Targets made it tougher.

 

[mightyrick]

Agreed. For those that aren't convinced, try this test with a ball machine.

Set the ball machine to hit balls deep in the corners and then try and hit
groundstrokes, running back and forth along the baseline.

Now, try the same experiment, but move the ball machine further back by
10 feet so that the balls land 10 feet shallower.

Which shots were easier to return?

Tell me if the Deep Impact Targets made it tougher.

The deep targets definitely have deeper impact. You either must take these balls on the rise (which usually means a weaker and less interesting reply)... or you have to step back several feet to take them at the apex. Now you've lost court position.

The only shot that can be hit back with interest is a solid moonball chip/lob. But these can be a very effective neutralizing shot.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Agreed. For those that aren't convinced, try this test with a ball machine.

Set the ball machine to hit balls deep in the corners and then try and hit
groundstrokes, running back and forth along the baseline.

Now, try the same experiment, but move the ball machine further back by
10 feet so that the balls land 10 feet shallower.

Which shots were easier to return?

Tell me if the Deep Impact Targets made it tougher.

I tried this experiment this morning with my ball machine. Wow! I was amazed! I had a hard time returning the Deep Impact balls. I never would have guessed a deeper ball would be so effective. I was so impressed with these results I decided to experiment by hitting all of MY shots to the Deep Impact targets. Sure enough, the ball machine was not able to return any of my Deep Impact shots.

This is going to take my game to a new level. Thanks onehand!

Please feel free to use my comments in your company prospectus (I assume you are going public soon to capitalize on this great idea).

 

[Power Player]

I practiced Deep Targets last night. I would attack the Deep Target to the backhand side and then crash the net to follow it up. What I noticed was the opponent many times just made an unforced error attempting to hit a shot that was out of his skill set.

 

[mightyrick]

More good charts of shot placements.

Agree, these shots are definitely targeted deep. Yet another piece of evidence to support this theory.

 

[jmnk]

I'm not entirely convinced about the applicability of Deep Impact strategy in all scenarios. It seems to me that Deep Impact Targets work way better on clay courts. Because Deep Impact shots leave, well, indeed deep impact on the clay courts. There are not nearly as visible deep impact imprints on hardcourts.

thoughts?

:wink:

 

[Topspin Shot]

Stop bumping this thread!!! Oh wait....

 

[boramiNYC]

I like Deep Impact Targets.

 

[onehandbh]

The impact of a shot is not measured only by the impact on the courts.
The depth and penetration on a hard court will leave an impression on your
opponent.

I'm not entirely convinced about the applicability of Deep Impact strategy in all scenarios. It seems to me that Deep Impact Targets work way better on clay courts. Because Deep Impact shots leave, well, indeed deep impact on the clay courts. There are not nearly as visible deep impact imprints on hardcourts.

thoughts?
:wink:

 

[mightyrick]

The impact of a shot is not measured only by the impact on the courts.
The depth and penetration on a hard court will leave an impression on your
opponent.

This is such a fantastic theory. Not only are you physically targeting with deep impact... you are also target to make a deep impact on your opponent. It has a physical and psychological aspect.

Until I read your theories, I really never thought about hitting deep or trying to take advantage of my opponent's psychological state during a match.

Thanks to your innovation, I'm confident this will turn my game around.

 

[Fintft]

Hard flat deep balls straight up the middle, which is the basis of my Safe Targets™ methodology, are also very effective if hit at the right time.

To me, last night, the right time meant after I've missed a few balls wide and it didn't have anything to do with the opponent (i.e. I hit hard down the middle iregardless if he was on the baseline or...at the net- At least I hit at his feet and got him of course lol).

 

[5263]

All things being equal except for depth, (spin, initial ball speed from racquet),
on a down-the-line shot, the deeper shot will give your opponent less time
to get to the ball.

absolutely incorrect.

 

[Power Player]

Thank you for your thoughts on the Deep Targeting system.

 

[PhrygianDominant]

Deep and Hard

This is the way!!!

Hittin' it deep. Absolutely GOATing

 

[onehandbh]

All things being equal except for depth, (spin, initial ball speed from racquet),
on a down-the-line shot, the deeper shot will give your opponent less time
to get to the ball. It will reach the back fence quicker.

absolutely incorrect.

No. I am absolutely correct. It is basic physics
Care to explain why you think it is incorrect?

 

[sureshs]

No. I am absolutely correct. It is basic physics
Care to explain why you think it is incorrect?

I think what 5263 may be getting at is that if you compare deep shot with angled shot, the latter could require more running (and time) to get to. SO even though time elapsed is more (measured till ball is reached), some of the time is spent in getting to the ball.

I personally find deep balls to be tougher though because they are there before I have prepared my (slow) takeback.

 

[onehandbh]

No. He was referring to down-the-line shots. I wasn't comparing DTL with
crosscourt shots. I think he understood that because he quoted what I
wrote in his reply.

I'm waiting for his reasoning on why he thinks the shorter ball will arrive at the back fence
quicker.

All things being equal except for depth, (spin, initial ball speed from racquet),
on a down-the-line shot, the deeper shot will give your opponent less time
to get to the ball. It will reach the back fence quicker.

absolutely incorrect.

I think what 5263 may be getting at is that if you compare deep shot with angled shot, the latter could require more running (and time) to get to. SO even though time elapsed is more (measured till ball is reached), some of the time is spent in getting to the ball.

I personally find deep balls to be tougher though because they are there before I have prepared my (slow) takeback.