Del Potro really has given us loads of outstanding matches: Federer vs Del Potro 2009 RG extended highlights

Red Rick

Red Rick

Talk Tennis Guru
NatF said:
Yes he's almost as bad as Murray on clay.
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Tell me which of the following is Del Potro's best RG win

Cilic
Tsonga
Berdych
Isner

and which one is better than Wawrinka or Ferrer.

Also which of his 250 wins is better than Murray's 1000 wins which included straight set wins over Nadal and Djokovic.

Or are we back in Natfland where reality is made up and facts don't matter
 
AnOctorokForDinner

AnOctorokForDinner

G.O.A.T.
Red Rick said:
Tell me which of the following is Del Potro's best RG win

Cilic
Tsonga
Berdych
Isner

and which one is better than Wawrinka or Ferrer.

Also which of his 250 wins is better than Murray's 1000 wins which included straight set wins over Nadal and Djokovic.

Or are we back in Natfland where reality is made up and facts don't matter
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Which great wins on clay did Murray have at the time of 2011 Rome? Does that mean his Rome vs Djokovic was krap? Or, it retroactively becomes epic because of his later achievements? The future redefines the past?
 
RS

RS

Legend
BackhandDTL said:
You are turning into a fake historian like abmk or NatF with less knowledge of tennis.

What a shame.

That’s not your game lol. Stick to baiting.
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Del Potro was more competitive than Murray outside 12-13 in his best slams too.

Look at the fight he gave Nadal in Wim 11 were Murray was stomped after set 1 even on grass.
 
Gazelle

Gazelle

Legend
JaoSousa said:
Wouldn't say its that bad as he just finished destroying Delpo in set 4. Federer has actually lost quite a few matches like this by breaking his own rhythm like IW in 2015. The only reason I don't like Nadal or Djokovic doing it is because it is a consistent pattern of behavior specifically after the opponent has built up momentum.

There have been a few instances of Fed doing it, like in AO 2017, but they are so few throughout his career, that I am willing to excuse that. And I don't use the excuse that "Oh Nadal broke him immediately so it makes everything okay." Sure, it definitely could have been taken to break Rafa's momentum. I can't make this judgement for sure because he very verrrrrrry rarely takes injury timeouts or bathroom breaks.


Edit: IW 2015 he just made a monster comeback in the 2nd before taking the break. Djokovic's hand was shaking when drinking his water in the break. And when Roger came back his entire momentum was snapped.
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Well, maybe Fed really had to pee.

It's not like Joe who takes mto's because his toe itches.
 
NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
Red Rick said:
Tell me which of the following is Del Potro's best RG win

Cilic
Tsonga
Berdych
Isner

and which one is better than Wawrinka or Ferrer.

Also which of his 250 wins is better than Murray's 1000 wins which included straight set wins over Nadal and Djokovic.

Or are we back in Natfland where reality is made up and facts don't matter
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Look at you trying to prattle off those Murray accomplishments like the good little simp you are :laughing: My post in this thread was literally, "Del Potro was good in this match, would be tough for anyone but Nadal but I'm not going to say he beats X and Y necessarily". I wasn't saying Del Potro was better or more accomplished on clay than Murray with my retort, I simply mocking your argument.

Del Potro played really well here, don't care about his win/loss record against the top 10 before or after. What's Soderling's record against the top 5 and top 10 on clay? Not great, probably worse than Del Potro's IIRC but that doesn't mean he wasn't playing great tennis at the FO in 2009 or 2010.

Better to live in Red Rick land where Murray has as many slams as Agassi and Kleenex shares are through the roof.
 
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TearTheRoofOff

TearTheRoofOff

Legend
Red Rick said:
It was a good match but not nearly the epic it's made out to be. When people compare him to Soderling or Wawrinka based on this match I can't help but rest my head in my hands.
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Well then that's the point of contention, then. As for his overall record on the surface; you're swiftly disappearing down Lew Avenue with that approach.
 
Red Rick

Red Rick

Talk Tennis Guru
TearTheRoofOff said:
Well then that's the point of contention, then. As for his overall record on the surface; you're swiftly disappearing down Lew Avenue with that approach.
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Outliers are only gonna be so much better than an average, and just cause it went 5 vs Federer doesn't mean it was it was super amazeballs. Federer went 5 sets vs Tommy Haas that same tournament as well. Federer wasn't that great on clay in 2009, it was the year Djokovic and then Soderling decided to end Nadal on clay which led to Federer winning Madrid and then RG.
 
TearTheRoofOff

TearTheRoofOff

Legend
Red Rick said:
Outliers are only gonna be so much better than an average, and just cause it went 5 vs Federer doesn't mean it was it was super amazeballs. Federer went 5 sets vs Tommy Haas that same tournament as well. Federer wasn't that great on clay in 2009, it was the year Djokovic and then Soderling decided to end Nadal on clay which led to Federer winning Madrid and then RG.
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True enough, but the very fact people rate the former more highly seems to go against the notion that the 5 sets was the defining parameter anyway. Fed was good enough; was crafty with his shots (e.g. dropshots), decked Nadal at Madrid (yeah yeah long semifinal. Didn't seem to do much of anything at the AO) and put on a clinic in the RG final. Prob still loses to Nadal, yes, but I find that a fairly useless barometer here.
 
abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
BackhandDTL said:
Legendary stuff from GOATpotro.

Makes like 5 UFE in the second set tiebreak, tanks the 4th set, and plays bang average in the 5th set

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ha ha ha

clueless fed hating bitterboy who doesn't know sh*t.

delpo of RG 2009 SF 2nd set played clearly better than stan in RG 2015 2nd set before the TB . It probably wouldn't even go to a TB.
if not for federer playing really well, 2nd set wouldn't even go to a TB. Delpo played a below TB with 3 UEs, but fed played an excellent one and it was delpo's only flaw in 1st 3 sets.

As far as djoko of RG 2015 final 2nd set is concerned, delpo of RG 2009 SF 2nd set would ROFLSTOMP him. (taking the set in a vaccum)

wawr gifted djoko the break in set1 with all UEs.
Similarly at start of set4 with 3 UEs out of 4 points lost
Also dug himself into a hole at 3-4 in the 4th set with 3 UEs, but was able to clutch it out.

Not much of a difference b/w delpo of RG 2009 5th set and stan RG 2015 2nd set. So both were bang average?
Accounting for 2015 RG being slower than 2009 RG, there isn't much of a difference b/w Delpo 5th set and Stan 2nd set.

abmk said:
broken first with an excellent game by fed. then broke back with some excellent play. only 2nd break was somewhat of a downer, saved 3 BPs, then federer forced an error and then BP.

15 winners, 14 errors forced to 8 UEs = 29 winners+errors forced to 8 UEs (+21) (even with a 45% first serve)

Wawrinka in the 2nd set of RG 2015 final was :
16 winners, 7 errors forced to 11 UEs = 23 winners+errors forced to 11 UEs.(+12)
Granted conditions were clearly faster in 2009, but delpo was up a significantly better 5th set fed than djoko in the 2nd set of RG 15

Fed in 5th set of RG 09:
14 winners, 16 errors forced to just 4 UEs = 30 winners+errors forced to 4 UEs(+26)

Djokovic in 2nd set of RG 15:
6 winners, 14 errors forced to 14 UEs = 20 winners+errors forced to 14 UEs(+6)
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Reality is both were above average.
 
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abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
Red Rick said:
Outliers are only gonna be so much better than an average, and just cause it went 5 vs Federer doesn't mean it was it was super amazeballs. Federer went 5 sets vs Tommy Haas that same tournament as well. Federer wasn't that great on clay in 2009, it was the year Djokovic and then Soderling decided to end Nadal on clay which led to Federer winning Madrid and then RG.
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no, it was amazeballs because it was. Delpo played absolutely phenomenal in sets 1-3 (minus 2nd set TB), fairly well in set 5.
Just because Djoko went 5 sets vs Seppi doesn't mean Tsonga didn't play pretty well vs Djokovic in the QF (well for 2.5 sets atleast)

Fed match vs Haas was after Nadal was eliminated by Soderling. So its not a surprise he shaky under the pressure (djoko was already eliminated before)

Fed played great vs Monfils in the QF and GOATEd vs Soderling in the final.

The Acusaso and Haas matches were the only ones where he wasn't good.
 
NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
RS said:
I thought he put it is a 7.5?
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Originally put it as a 6.5, think last thing I said was that it should be a 7.

It was a error filled match with fairly weak ballstriking due to the wind, obviously if I were to extrapolate for non-windy conditions it would have probably been 8+. I try to rate on an absolute scale though...
 
BackhandDTL

BackhandDTL

Hall of Fame
NatF said:
Originally put it as a 6.5, think last thing I said was that it should be a 7.

It was a error filled match with fairly weak ballstriking due to the wind, obviously if I were to extrapolate for non-windy conditions it would have probably been 8+. I try to rate on an absolute scale though...
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It’s utterly brainless to not consider the exogenous variables (y)
 
abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
Red Rick said:
It was a good match but not nearly the epic it's made out to be. When people compare him to Soderling or Wawrinka based on this match I can't help but rest my head in my hands.
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Umm what?

abmk said:
Full stats are there in the links.

Delpo in RG 2009 semi vs fed: 55 winners, 67 errors forced to 40 UEs, i.e 122 winners+errors forced to 40 UEs(+82)
Total # of points in match = 310, Delpo's AM = (82/310) = 26.45%

Fed in RG 2009 vs Delpo : 50 winners, 69 errors forced to 29 UEs, i.e 119 winners+forced to 29 UEs(+90),
Total # of points in match = 310, Fed's AM = (90/310) = 29.03%

Roland Garros - The 2009 French Open - Official Site by IBM

The official site of the 2009 Roland Garros is designed, built and hosted by IBM. We feature information on the French Open tennis tournament, player stats, schedule of play, results, interviews, and real-time scores.
web.archive.org

Wawr in RG 2015 final vs djoko: 60 winners, 36 errors forced to 45 UEs, i.e 96 winners+errors forced to 45 UEs(+51)
Total # of points in match = 254, Wawr's AM = (51/254) = 20.07%

Djoko in RG 2015 final vs Wawr: 30 winners, 42 errors forced to 41 UEs, i.e 72 winners+errors forced to 41 UEs(+31)
Total # of points in match = 254, Djoko's AM = (31/254) = 12.2%


Now keep in mind, conditions in RG 2009 semi were faster than in RG 2015 final, but also consider Fed was significantly better than Djokovic as an opponent.
Delpo's level was higher given all this IMO, no question.
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Hitman

Hitman

Legend
ForehandCross said:
Pure power tennis, and Federer was struggling to find a way to tackle it.

If Del Potro hadn't gotten injured we would have loads of amazing matches. Del Potro was the ATG that never was, really wanna see him again at his best.

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This match was a war. Del Potro was bringing out some massive bombs, Federer was getting manhandled for a lot of the match. Watching this live, it looked like De Potro was on his way to the final. Federer won that match the hard way, no doubt.
 
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