Del Potro RG 2009 vs Alcaraz RG 2025 who wins?

[Dane_is_Finnish_OJ]

Delpo was nothing special on clay. A bit overrated on this forum in general.

 

[abmk]

2017 Delpo was a very pale shadow of 2009 Delpo.

Yeah but I had the tactics of that match fresh in the mind. 2017 Nadal was declined too, to be fair.

In USO 17 delpo had 2 draining matches coming into the semi : 5-setter vs Thiem and tough 4-setter vs fed. was just recovering before thiem match and start off not looking 100% (I was there at the stadium)

a prime delpo was very good at fhs on the run

 

[abmk]

Federer eventually broke the big fella down with slice and droppers as I recall. As we know, Alcaraz is completely useless at these things, so... Oh, no, wait a goddamn minute.

fed's droppers and slice didn't work as well as one would think vs delpo. that's how zoned in delpo was.

if they were fed would've easily taken it just like their Madrid match a couple of weeks before.

 

[abmk]

Don't see how his stock can rise any further than this. People are claiming he's better than peak Nadal on clay and more talented than the magician Fed.

It can only go down.

you will be in for a disappointment then.

 

[Dane_is_Finnish_OJ]

LOL at those saying Alcaraz would win in 3

I think he would. Not that he might get bored in one set and give it away, but he'd win anyway. Delpo wasn't that good on clay.

 

[zagor]

Yeah but I had the tactics of that match fresh in the mind. 2017 Nadal was declined too, to be fair.

Sure but he was still much closer to his prime.

Look, I get what you're saying but pre-wrist surgery 2009 Delpo actually had an excellent BH, which made him a completely different opponent to face.

IMO he was never the same player after 2010 wrist surgery. He just couldn't reach the same heights.

 

[zagor]

you will be in for a disappointment then.

In what regard? I'm not sure what to except from Alcaraz or Sinner going forward but they're already being put on a pedestal above the big 3.

It's a bit amazing to me considering that for example Alcaraz got routined this year at AO by grandpa Novak but I guess that old beaten down injured Novak is also much better than 2011 Novak because muh tennis evolution.

 

[BauerAlmeida]

lol imagine using this type of logic. Somebody should have told Djokovic last Wimbledon that Alcaraz went 5 sets against Tiafo so if they meet in final this gonna be easy work for Novak

Yeah, all the talk about "hypotheticals" is bullsh!t 90% of the time. It involves picking a random match a player played and using it to generalize as a blanket statement, ignoring every other match. As if tennis was a mathematical formula. Player A beat Player B here and Player B beat Player C, so Player A would beat Player C. Or Player A struggled against an inferior player here so he will lose against a better player. As if every match wasn't a different story.

Federer was 2 points away from losing to Benneteau in Wimbledon 2012 and then beat Djokovic and Murray without going to 5 in either match. Djokovic went to 5 against Simon at AO 2016 and then brushed aside Nishikori, Murray and Federer back-to-back-to-back dropping only one set. Federer was basically one point away from being straight-setted by Haas at RG 2009, struggled a lot with Acasuso and almost goes 2-1 down or something and demolished Soderling in the final who was playing an insane tournament. Djokovic struggled in IW and Miami 2011 with Nadal and then beat him twice in straights on clay. And the list goes on and on and on.

 

[RS]

Yeah, all the talk about "hypotheticals" is bullsh!t 90% of the time. It involves picking a random match a player played and using it to generalize as a blanket statement, ignoring every other match. As if tennis was a mathematical formula. Player A beat Player B here and Player B beat Player C, so Player A would beat Player C. Or Player A struggled against an inferior player here so he will lose against a better player. As if every match wasn't a different story.

Federer was 2 points away from losing to Benneteau in Wimbledon 2012 and then beat Djokovic and Murray without going to 5 in either match. Djokovic went to 5 against Simon at AO 2016 and then brushed aside Nishikori, Murray and Federer back-to-back-to-back dropping only one set. Federer was basically one point away from being straight-setted by Haas at RG 2009, struggled a lot with Acasuso and almost goes 2-1 down or something and demolished Soderling in the final who was playing an insane tournament. Djokovic struggled in IW and Miami 2011 with Nadal and then beat him twice in straights on clay. And the list goes on and on and on.

Good point.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

Don't see how his stock can rise any further than this. People are claiming he's better than peak Nadal on clay and more talented than the magician Fed.

It can only go down.

I was mainly talking about myself. I try to block out the weird stuff.

 

[zagor]

Yeah, all the talk about "hypotheticals" is bullsh!t 90% of the time. It involves picking a random match a player played and using it to generalize as a blanket statement, ignoring every other match. As if tennis was a mathematical formula. Player A beat Player B here and Player B beat Player C, so Player A would beat Player C. Or Player A struggled against an inferior player here so he will lose against a better player. As if every match wasn't a different story.

Federer was 2 points away from losing to Benneteau in Wimbledon 2012 and then beat Djokovic and Murray without going to 5 in either match. Djokovic went to 5 against Simon at AO 2016 and then brushed aside Nishikori, Murray and Federer back-to-back-to-back dropping only one set. Federer was basically one point away from being straight-setted by Haas at RG 2009, struggled a lot with Acasuso and almost goes 2-1 down or something and demolished Soderling in the final who was playing an insane tournament. Djokovic struggled in IW and Miami 2011 with Nadal and then beat him twice in straights on clay. And the list goes on and on and on.

That's not the whole point I was making, it's very disingenuous to present it as such.

I've never seen Alcaraz dominate a Delpo caliber of an opponent in a slam.

Alcaraz doesn't win his slams in dominant fashion, he clutches out 5 setters.

 

[TennisGrandpA]

delpo in RG 09 (with Robredo, Andreev, Tsonga, Federer): 89.7% service games won, 35.4% return games won, 55.3% total points won, 62.7% total games won

alcaraz in RG 24 had 80.3% service games won, 39.7% return games, 54.8% total points won, 60.1% total games won

don't have the full stats for Alcaraz in RG 25, but I can tell you his % of total games won in RG 25 based on his scores is:

( scores from Tennis Abstract)
1st match: 18/27 (6-3 6-4 6-2)
2nd match: 22/32 (6-1 4-6 6-1 6-2)
3rd match: 22/36 (6-1 6-3 4-6 6-4)
4th match: 23/42 (7-6(8) 6-3 4-6 6-4)
5th match: 18/23 (6-0 6-1 6-4)
6th match: 17/29 (4-6 7-6(3) 6-0 2-0 RET)
7th match: 30/59 (4-6 6-7(4) 6-4 7-6(3) 7-6(2))

that is: 150/248 (60.48%)

clearly below delpo of RG 09 games won% of 62.7%
this inspite of delpo having a clearly tougher and deeper draw (granted Alcaraz had one extra match to play)

sets won/lost also delpo clearly has the edge. he lost only 1 set before semi. alcaraz lost 3.

Sinner has far better stats than Delpo in this RG so he should have higher peak , no? Unfortunately that’s not how it works.i am sure now you will do all mental gymnastics to prove how those stats don’t mean anything when it goes against your case.

 

[zagor]

Good point.

No, If Alcaraz had a similar example as those mentioned it would be a good point.

However, unless you count 2024 Wimbledon final (I don't for obvious reasons), he doesn't. He's always in a dogfight.

Alcaraz didn't struggle in early rounds in 2025 FO and then dominated the SF and F. He was in all kinds of trouble against Musetti before the latter got injured and he was down 3 MPS against Sinner in the final.

Get my point now?

 

[ChrisJR3264]

Del Potro was so exciting to watch. His movement was quite good too.
Injuries derailed his career.

 

[RS]

Sinner has far better stats than Delpo in this RG so he should have higher peak , no? Unfortunately that’s not how it works.i am sure now you will do all mental gymnastics to prove how those stats don’t mean anything when it goes against your case.

It might be handy to compare Sinner's stats with Del Potro's then.

 

[BauerAlmeida]

That's not the whole point I was making, it's very disingenuous to present it as such.

I've never seen Alcaraz dominate a Delpo caliber of an opponent in a slam.

Alcaraz doesn't win his slams in dominant fashion, he clutches out 5 setters.

But he ends up winning one way or another. 5-0 in slam finals and 5 slams at 22. A win is worth the same if it's 3-0 or 3-2 in the end.

Del Potro vs Alcaraz could go either way really. Del Potro can win in 4 but if it goes to 5 it's likely Alcaraz. But my point wasn't about this matchup in particular.

 

[zagor]

But he ends up winning one way or another. 5-0 in slam finals and 5 slams at 22. A win is worth the same if it's 3-0 or 3-2 in the end.

Del Potro vs Alcaraz could go either way really. Del Potro can win in 4 but if it goes to 5 it's likely Alcaraz. But my point wasn't about this matchup in particular.

My disagreement was with the people picking Alcaraz in straights, acting like Delpo was a mug (and Alcaraz rarely even beat mugs in straights).

I'd pick Alcaraz in 5 myself against 2009 Delpo at FO.

 

[ChrisJR3264]

But he ends up winning one way or another. 5-0 in slam finals and 5 slams at 22. A win is worth the same if it's 3-0 or 3-2 in the end.

Del Potro vs Alcaraz could go either way really. Del Potro can win in 4 but if it goes to 5 it's likely Alcaraz. But my point wasn't about this matchup in particular.

Idk del po took down fed in 5. I wouldn’t rule him out. He took his game to another level in the 4th and 5th sets to close out the USO final.

 

[zagor]

It might be handy to compare Sinner's stats with Del Potro's then.

@TheFifthSet compare their DRs or something : )

 

[Subway Tennis]

We are talking real clay not that blue rubbish that stopped Nadal sweeping the whole clay season

i think we may share similar feelings about blue clay

 

[RS]

i think we may share similar feelings about blue clay

2nd worst after Indoor HC

 

[Rovesciarete]

DelPo's 2009 clay swing was pretty memorable, especially his Madrid run with wins against Wawrinka and Murray and RG, both ended by Federer. In Rome he was stopped by Djokovic, a not so good loss came against Ljubicic in MC. The transition from Miami to Monte can be tough.

His dominance ratio for the whole year was with 1.17 surprisingly low and his TPW with 52.7% not that high. Lots of nostalgia and what could have been involved.

Obviously Sinneraz have (far) higher performance stats, which still don't guarantee setting him in straights or winning at all. For me Carlos wins 7-9 out of 10 in Bo5, Sinner too. Maybe just 8. In Madrid possibly 5-8 for both.

 

[buscemi]

DelPo's 2009 clay swing was pretty memorable, especially his Madrid run with wins against Wawrinka and Murray and RG, both ended by Federer. In Rome he was stopped by Djokovic, a not so good loss came against Ljubicic in MC. The transition from Miami to Monte can be tough.

His dominance ratio for the whole year was with 1.17 surprisingly low and his TPW with 52.7% not that high. Lots of nostalgia and what could have been involved.

Obviously Sinneraz have (far) higher performance stats, which still don't guarantee setting him in straights or winning at all. For me Carlos wins 7-9 out of 10 in Bo5, Sinner too. Maybe just 8. In Madrid possibly 5-8 for both.

But del Potro played really well at that French Open:

​

1R: destroys Llorda, 6-3, 6-3, 6-1​

2R: another straight set win, bageling Troicki in the third set​

3R: straight set win over Andreev​

4R: convincing win over a very good version of Tsogna, 6-1, 6-7, 6-1, 6-4​

QF: smokes Robredo, who won a couple of clay titles that year, 6-3, 6-4, 6-2​

SF: epic five set loss to Fed​

 

[pierceforehands]

Don't see how his stock can rise any further than this. People are claiming he's better than peak Nadal on clay and more talented than the magician Fed.

It can only go down.

Yes peak Nadal would lose to a 100 year old Djokovic on clay as Alcarez did in the Wimbledon final, or be down match points to Sinner on by far his worst surface.

 

[Dane_is_Finnish_OJ]

Yes peak Nadal would lose to a 100 year old Djokovic on clay as Alcarez did in the Wimbledon final, or be down match points to Sinner on by far his worst surface.

I’m pretty sure that Alcaraz won that Wimbledon final in straights.

 

[abmk]

In what regard? I'm not sure what to except from Alcaraz or Sinner going forward but they're already being put on a pedestal above the big 3.

It's a bit amazing to me considering that for example Alcaraz got routined this year at AO by grandpa Novak but I guess that old beaten down injured Novak is also much better than 2011 Novak because muh tennis evolution.

his stock will rise further than this:

"Don't see how his stock can rise any further than this. People are claiming he's better than peak Nadal on clay and more talented than the magician Fed."

if he wins Wimbledon, some people will say he will beat Fed/Sampras playing doubles by himself on grass.

 

[abmk]

Sinner has far better stats than Delpo in this RG so he should have higher peak , no? Unfortunately that’s not how it works.i am sure now you will do all mental gymnastics to prove how those stats don’t mean anything when it goes against your case.

I mentioned the competition in that post also.

you didn't even read properly. Your agenda/propaganda is why I have you on ignore, but just decided to address this once.
and this was my first comment. based on actually watching. I added the stats thing only later on

delpo in 4 sets max.

he was unplayable for 3 sets minus the 2nd set TB.
(played well in the 5th set also,.)

 

[RS]

Good thread.

Let's keep the hypotheicals going.

 

[TennisGrandpA]

It might be handy to compare Sinner's stats with Del Potro's then.

Why not? I am sure Sinner dominated much better than Potro dominated

 

[ChrisJR3264]

Why not? I am sure Sinner dominated much better than Potro dominated

Lol

 

[TennisGrandpA]

Wow, now magically competition became better lol when stats selectively failed ? Btw Potro didn’t beat any giants and his competition was not much better than Sinner’s and his stats were much inferior to Sinners

 

[RS]

Why not? I am sure Sinner dominated much better than Potro dominated

I am interested because I don't know the exact stats.

Would be cool to see a breakdown of all the stats of those RG's.

 

[ChrisJR3264]

Wow, now magically competition became better lol when stats selectively failed ? Btw Potro didn’t beat any giants and his competition was not much better than Sinner’s and his stats were much inferior to Sinners

Prime fed lost to del po in 2009 USO final.

 

[abmk]

Wow, now magically competition became better lol when stats selectively failed ? Btw Potro didn’t beat any giants and his competition was not much better than Sinner’s and his stats were much inferior to Sinners

delpo beat tsonga, robredo, andreev. that's a deep draw. much tough than sinner's joke draw before the semi.
its not magical. I mentioned it in that stat post itself.
didn't read first time and still pretends not to have read.
This is why I have shameless trolls like you on ignore.
Good riddance.

 

[RS]

Wow, now magically competition became better lol when stats selectively failed ? Btw Potro didn’t beat any giants and his competition was not much better than Sinner’s and his stats were much inferior to Sinners

Vote.

 

[RS]

Prime fed lost to del po in 2009 USO final.

I remember Alcaraz USO 22 vs Del Potro USO 2009 was asked at the time and Del Potro won by a wide margin.

 

[abmk]

I am interested because I don't know the exact stats.

Would be cool to see a breakdown of all the stats of those RG's.

Sinner games % won

1st match: 19/31
2nd match: 18/25
3rd match: 18/21
4th match: 18/26
5th match: 19/25
6th match: 20/35
7th match: 29/59

total games% won = 141/232 = 63.5%

[td]26-May-2025[/td][td]Roland Garros[/td][td]Clay[/td][td]F[/td]

[td]

1​

[/td][td]

2​

[/td]​

[td](2)Carlos Alcaraz [ESP] d. (1)Sinner[/td][td]4-6 6-7(4) 6-4 7-6(3) 7-6(2)[/td]

[td]

5:32​

[/td]​

[td]26-May-2025[/td][td]Roland Garros[/td][td]Clay[/td][td]SF[/td]

[td]

1​

[/td][td]

6​

[/td]​

[td](1)Sinner d. (6)Novak Djokovic [SRB][/td][td]6-4 7-5 7-6(3)[/td] [td]26-May-2025[/td][td]Roland Garros[/td][td]Clay[/td][td]QF[/td]

[td]

1​

[/td][td]

62​

[/td]​

[td](1)Sinner d. Alexander Bublik [KAZ][/td][td]6-1 7-5 6-0[/td] [td]26-May-2025[/td][td]Roland Garros[/td][td]Clay[/td][td]R16[/td]

[td]

1​

[/td][td]

15​

[/td]​

[td](1)Sinner d. (17)Andrey Rublev [RUS][/td][td]6-1 6-3 6-4[/td] [td]26-May-2025[/td][td]Roland Garros[/td][td]Clay[/td][td]R32[/td]

[td]

1​

[/td][td]

34​

[/td]​

[td](1)Sinner d. Jiri Lehecka [CZE][/td][td]6-0 6-1 6-2[/td] [td]26-May-2025[/td][td]Roland Garros[/td][td]Clay[/td][td]R64[/td]

[td]

1​

[/td][td]

166​

[/td]​

[td](1)Sinner d. (WC)Richard Gasquet [FRA][/td][td]6-3 6-0 6-4[/td] [td]26-May-2025[/td]
[td]Roland Garros[/td][td]Clay[/td][td]R128[/td]

[td]

1​

[/td][td]

75​

[/td]​

[td](1)Sinner d. Arthur Rinderknech [FRA][/td][td]6-4 6-3 7-5[/td]

delpo's was 62.7% with a much deeper draw (tsonga, robredo, andreev vs Oldovic) and a tougher last opponent in fed (vs Alcaraz)

 

[metsman]

2018 Delpo is the better question

 

[The Guru]

2018 Delpo is the better question

2025 Carlos or 2013 Ferrer

 

[RS]

2018 Delpo is the better question

Could it end in straights?

 

[mike danny]

I think he would. Not that he might get bored in one set and give it away, but he'd win anyway. Delpo wasn't that good on clay.

He needed 5 sets ro beat Z, he is not beating Delpo easily

 

[TennisGrandpA]

Prime fed lost to del po in 2009 USO final.

Delpo had a good record at USO , so it’s not surprising.

 

[TennisGrandpA]

I

Sinner games % won

1st match: 19/31
2nd match: 18/25
3rd match: 18/21
4th match: 18/26
5th match: 19/25
6th match: 20/35
7th match: 29/59

total games% won = 141/232 = 63.5%

[td]26-May-2025[/td][td]Roland Garros[/td][td]Clay[/td][td]F[/td]

[td]
1

[/td][td]
2

[/td]​

[td](2)Carlos Alcaraz [ESP] d. (1)Sinner[/td][td]4-6 6-7(4) 6-4 7-6(3) 7-6(2)[/td]

[td]
5:32

[/td]​

[td]26-May-2025[/td][td]Roland Garros[/td][td]Clay[/td][td]SF[/td]

[td]
1

[/td][td]
6

[/td]​

[td](1)Sinner d. (6)Novak Djokovic [SRB][/td][td]6-4 7-5 7-6(3)[/td] [td]26-May-2025[/td][td]Roland Garros[/td][td]Clay[/td][td]QF[/td]

[td]
1

[/td][td]
62

[/td]​

[td](1)Sinner d. Alexander Bublik [KAZ][/td][td]6-1 7-5 6-0[/td] [td]26-May-2025[/td][td]Roland Garros[/td][td]Clay[/td][td]R16[/td]

[td]
1

[/td][td]
15

[/td]​

[td](1)Sinner d. (17)Andrey Rublev [RUS][/td][td]6-1 6-3 6-4[/td] [td]26-May-2025[/td][td]Roland Garros[/td][td]Clay[/td][td]R32[/td]

[td]
1

[/td][td]
34

[/td]​

[td](1)Sinner d. Jiri Lehecka [CZE][/td][td]6-0 6-1 6-2[/td] [td]26-May-2025[/td][td]Roland Garros[/td][td]Clay[/td][td]R64[/td]

[td]
1

[/td][td]
166

[/td]​

[td](1)Sinner d. (WC)Richard Gasquet [FRA][/td][td]6-3 6-0 6-4[/td] [td]26-May-2025[/td]
[td]Roland Garros[/td][td]Clay[/td][td]R128[/td]

[td]
1

[/td][td]
75

[/td]​

[td](1)Sinner d. Arthur Rinderknech [FRA][/td][td]6-4 6-3 7-5[/td]


delpo's was 62.7% with a much deeper draw (tsonga, robredo, andreev vs Oldovic) and a tougher last opponent in fed (vs Alcaraz)

oh great clay giants like Tsonga , Andreev lol why don’t you give us their seedings and number of sets lost ??

 

[ChrisJR3264]

delpo beat tsonga, robredo, andreev. that's a deep draw. much tough than sinner's joke draw before the semi.
its not magical. I mentioned it in that stat post itself.
didn't read first time and still pretends not to have read.
This is why I have shameless trolls like you on ignore.
Good riddance.

Stat post?
How did the stat post of “winning Rome = losing RG” work out for ya?

I feel like you either forget what del po looked like back in the day, when healthy. Playing in the era of the big 3 with Andy Murray making a strong case for 10+ slams in any other era was quite challenging. Tsonga was no slouch.

 

[abmk]

oh great clay giants like Tsonga , Andreev lol why don’t you give us their seedings and number of sets lost ??

you don't even want to google for stuff before 2015 or 2020? clueless, lazy fellow.

tsonga was #9, robredo #16 and andreev #25
robredo and andreev obviously have some CC caliber. tsonga as well obviously, especially at RG. MPs vs djokovic in RG 12, played Stan the hardest in RG 15, beat fed in RG 13, couple of other 5-setters vs stan at RG.

But hey tell is how no effort Bublik, bleh rublev, nothing lehecka, completely washed up Gasquet compare to andreev, robredo, tsonga of RG 2009.

 

[abmk]

Stat post?
How did the stat post of “winning Rome = losing RG” work out for ya?

I feel like you either forget what del po looked like back in the day, when healthy. Playing in the era of the big 3 with Andy Murray making a strong case for 10+ slams in any other era was quite challenging. Tsonga was no slouch.

I think you may have quoted the wrong person

 

[buscemi]

I

oh great clay giants like Tsonga , Andreev lol why don’t you give us their seedings and number of sets lost ??

Tsonga made two French Open SFs and a QF where he held four match points against Djokovic before losing in five sets.

Andreev had a bunch of clay finals, winning two of them, with one featuring a win over Ferrer in the final.

del Potro only lost 1 set at the 2009 French Open before his loss to Federer. It was a tiebreaker against Tsonga sandwiched in between two breadsticks in a four set win.

 

[SonnyT]

Obvious! A guy winning 5 slams, so far vs a guy winning one slam!

 

[Racquet_smash]

How is Tsonga clowned when the current clay field sees players like Draper or Tommy Paul in late rounds of finals?

 

[abmk]

Tsonga made two French Open SFs and a QF where he held four match points against Djokovic before losing in five sets.

Andreev had a bunch of clay finals, winning two of them, with one featuring a win over Ferrer in the final.

del Potro only lost 1 set at the 2009 French Open before his loss to Federer. It was a tiebreaker against Tsonga sandwiched in between two breadsticks in a four set win.

correct. Also delpo made another French semi in 2018 and another QF in 12 (could've made semi if he was not hampered in some way vs fed - delpo was up 2 sets to love)