Developing a second serve

[creepygreenlight]

Basically, my record for consecutive conventional serves into the service box is six. Because of the obvious inconsistency of my 'just get it in the box' overarm serve I use an underarm second serve in matches. To make matters worse I end up having to hit A LOT of them because my first serve percentage is also dreadful. Not too long ago I played 3-4 sets with someone and accumulated less than 10 first serves by my estimation all together. However I am focusing on developing my orthodox second serve because once I have turned that into a reliable shot I will have the option to simply 'go for less' on my first serve and up my percentage. At the moment I don't have that option because my first serve percentage and orthodox second serve percentage are approximately as abysmal.

I practice for hours every week only on my second serve but there has been no improvement. I've tried serving with varying degrees of topspin and none at all and that hasn't seemed to work. I have imitated and invented a multitude of different service motions and all that's gotten me nowhere either. I've run out of ideas and that's why I'm asking here: how would you advise someone how to develop a consistent second serve?

 

[gallen1999]

Can you post a video of your serve so we can help fix technical flaws?
A good drill is to start hitting serves closer to the net (around the service line). Then as you are consistent with those gradually move back (eventually to your normal serving position) Try your best to maintain the consistency throughout the whole drill.

 

[LeeD]

Yeah, post vid.
EVERY good tennis player hit's a version of a top/slice second serve, to up the percentage somewhere around 90% in match play.
Toss is more atop your head, you swing providing forward ball spin, the ball arc's downward sharply, your margin for error is around 3' over the netcord, something you should be able to duplicate.
Also, the second serve is somewhere between 35-20 mph SLOWER than your first serve, but much more spin and at least an equal swing speed.

 

[Devil_dog]

Consult with a reputable local tennis pro. Then hit lots and lots of serves after learning a solid and dependable swing. You'll gain confidence and that goes a long way too. Good luck.

 

[LeeD]

Almost NOBODY who has played tennis less than 3 years can hit a reliable topspin second serve. It takes years of experience and practice. Experience for you mental mind set, and practice for your physical body.

 

[eaglesburg]

I would like to add: if you need help learning the topspin brushing motion start choked up on the racket and maybe even on your knees so that you can teach yourself to hit up on the ball.

 

[dct693]

Almost NOBODY who has played tennis less than 3 years can hit a reliable topspin second serve. It takes years of experience and practice. Experience for you mental mind set, and practice for your physical body.

You're right. It's pretty tough to do. I've been playing 1.5 yrs and sitll double-fault at least 5x in a a 2 set match. In practice, when I get into a groove, I concentrate on these items:

• keep the torso more sideways through contact, almost facing the side fence
• keep the eyes focused on contact so I don't twist my head and turn topspin into slice
• swing up aggressively at the ball, faster than I would for a 1st serve
• get a nice, deep racquet drop
  
• ULNAR DEVIATION
  
• DON'T CHASE BAD TOSSES!

When I get it right, it's a thing of beauty, especially when it kicks up!

 

[LeeD]

And even after 40 years of hitting the same old top/slice second serve, it's possible, just once, to double fault 7 times in one set.
Haven't DF'd more than 3 times any set since, and it was against another 4.5-5.0 who threatened to pummel any short second serves.
Out of maybe 20 singles sets since that day (of the 7 DF's), I have averaged one DF a set, maybe a bit less.
100 mph flat first serves, maybe 65 mph top/slice second serves, a bit slower on twist second serves.

 

[shindemac]

I practice for hours every week only on my second serve but there has been no improvement. I've tried serving with varying degrees of topspin and none at all and that hasn't seemed to work. I have imitated and invented a multitude of different service motions and all that's gotten me nowhere either. I've run out of ideas and that's why I'm asking here: how would you advise someone how to develop a consistent second serve?

This is an easy question to answer because I've been in your shoes before, and for way too long I might add. Look to the left, and that's how long I've been working on spin serves. If I knew what I did now, i could probably have done it in 3 to 4 years to reach my current point. My flat is out of practice this year, but last year I could serve it in ~50% of the time AND hit my spots while having it hit up to 1 feet up on the back fence. I went from losing almost all my service games to almost winning most of them (maybe 3/4 approx). This year, my second serve is still a work in progress, so there are still bouts where I'll double fault a few points away. But in general, I have enough faith in my second serve to hit full out and get it in. People have said my second is as fast as a first serve.

Anyways, if I could go back in time, this is what I would tell myself.

1. My biggest mistake was not practicing enough. I keep a log now. You can see my log for last year's service practice. I might post and update my log for this year too. There's other specifics too, but in general, practice, practice, practice.

2. Second was not having any guidance. I had to figure out everything myself (even with the help of this forum). We still have simple arguments about what terms mean, and how to do certain things. Get a coach so he can correct you. Literally, you are practicing blind unless you want to meander about and do things wrong before you find the right way.

Topspin serves do work. I can hit with anywhere from 1 to 3 feet of net clearance and still have it dip in. My serves bounce up to 4.5 feet now. Honestly, I never thought my first or second serve would be where it is today. It was the worst part of my game before. But once I knew what I was doing wrong, it was a lot easier and faster to improve. You can do it too! Never give up! Practice and get a coach.

 

[TennisCJC]

I am not saying this to be harsh but your problem is you cannot serve period and not your second serve. If a player has a fluid good functioning 1st serve, they will be able to add a little more topspin or kick and have a 2nd serve. If you don't have a basic fluid good service motion, the odds of you developing a good 2nd serve are nil.

See a pro and ask for him to teach you a basic 1st serve that you can hit with spin (a bit of top/slice) at 75% speed and get it into the service box more than 60% of the time. Once you have the basic serving technique down, learning a 2nd serve with a touch more topspin will be much easier.

What you are asking for is like a baseball pitcher saying "I cannot throw my fastball over the plate for strikes but I want to learn to throw a curve ball". The pitching coach would say let's learn to throw the simple pitch first and then we'll add the more complex pitch. You need to master the basic mechanics first.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

I am not saying this to be harsh but your problem is you cannot serve period and not your second serve. If a player has a fluid good functioning 1st serve, they will be able to add a little more topspin or kick and have a 2nd serve. If you don't have a basic fluid good service motion, the odds of you developing a good 2nd serve are nil.

See a pro and ask for him to teach you a basic 1st serve that you can hit with spin (a bit of top/slice) at 75% speed and get it into the service box more than 60% of the time. Once you have the basic serving technique down, learning a 2nd serve with a touch more topspin will be much easier.

What you are asking for is like a baseball pitcher saying "I cannot throw my fastball over the plate for strikes but I want to learn to throw a curve ball". The pitching coach would say let's learn to throw the simple pitch first and then we'll add the more complex pitch. You need to master the basic mechanics first.

Good analogy.

Side note... I've been helping all my students with their serves... and despite telling them technically what they are supposed to be doing, they can't do it well (after hours of practice).
So I took on the task of teaching myself to serve lefty (to understand the difficulty my students are going through).
It's horrible (still is, but still practice occasionally).
No way I could get get more than 50% (and I've practiced "hours"), and that's with no pace/spin (just flat)... and I know exactly what I'm supposed to be doing (with my right hand, I can probably serve 95% (of a 75 ball basket) kick serves into the middle of the box... maybe even a 100%).
My point is, even knowing what you have to do, coordinating you body to do the 5-10 fundamental things it needs to do simultaneously can take a while.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

Basically, my record for consecutive conventional serves into the service box is six. Because of the obvious inconsistency of my 'just get it in the box' overarm serve I use an underarm second serve in matches. To make matters worse I end up having to hit A LOT of them because my first serve percentage is also dreadful. Not too long ago I played 3-4 sets with someone and accumulated less than 10 first serves by my estimation all together. However I am focusing on developing my orthodox second serve because once I have turned that into a reliable shot I will have the option to simply 'go for less' on my first serve and up my percentage. At the moment I don't have that option because my first serve percentage and orthodox second serve percentage are approximately as abysmal.

I practice for hours every week only on my second serve but there has been no improvement. I've tried serving with varying degrees of topspin and none at all and that hasn't seemed to work. I have imitated and invented a multitude of different service motions and all that's gotten me nowhere either. I've run out of ideas and that's why I'm asking here: how would you advise someone how to develop a consistent second serve?

Also, I have recommended using an underarm 2nd serve (eg. slice or topspin fh) while developing an overarm 1st/2nd serve... I don't see any issues with that especially if you still want to go out and play socially while still getting better. Probably good for practicing your groundstrokes anyway

 

[GuyClinch]

I am not saying this to be harsh but your problem is you cannot serve period and not your second serve. If a player has a fluid good functioning 1st serve, they will be able to add a little more topspin or kick and have a 2nd serve. If you don't have a basic fluid good service motion, the odds of you developing a good 2nd serve are nil.

Great post.. Second serves are not like some trick shots - its the same thing just hit the ball a little earlier in the swing path and change the swing angle.

 

[jga111]

And even after 40 years of hitting the same old top/slice second serve, it's possible, just once, to double fault 7 times in one set.
Haven't DF'd more than 3 times any set since, and it was against another 4.5-5.0 who threatened to pummel any short second serves.
Out of maybe 20 singles sets since that day (of the 7 DF's), I have averaged one DF a set, maybe a bit less.
100 mph flat first serves, maybe 65 mph top/slice second serves, a bit slower on twist second serves.

Yes, one issue is reducing the DF, the other is hitting a second serve that doesn't sit WELL before the baseline when you may as well kiss your point goodbye. It's difficult, for me the 2nd serve is the most import shot in tennis.

 

[creepygreenlight]

I am not saying this to be harsh but your problem is you cannot serve period and not your second serve. If a player has a fluid good functioning 1st serve, they will be able to add a little more topspin or kick and have a 2nd serve. If you don't have a basic fluid good service motion, the odds of you developing a good 2nd serve are nil.

See a pro and ask for him to teach you a basic 1st serve that you can hit with spin (a bit of top/slice) at 75% speed and get it into the service box more than 60% of the time. Once you have the basic serving technique down, learning a 2nd serve with a touch more topspin will be much easier.

What you are asking for is like a baseball pitcher saying "I cannot throw my fastball over the plate for strikes but I want to learn to throw a curve ball". The pitching coach would say let's learn to throw the simple pitch first and then we'll add the more complex pitch. You need to master the basic mechanics first.

Like I say I've practiced hitting without spin as well and it has thus far been unsuccessful. I'm thinking of practicing hitting a full blown lob into the service box that would be less effective than my underarm serve and then work from there.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

probably best to post a video. If you're practice videos for "hours" a week and trying to make adjustments every time,... I can't see how it can't get better.

it can however take a long time to get the coordination.... and that could definitely take 10's of 100's of hours especially if you don't have a vocabulary of movement developed from other sports (eg. how well do you throw a football?)

students I've had that do have a good throwing motion usually pick up the serve pretty quick (gross motor skills, and not consistent, but they get it). on the flip side I have one student where we just throw a football around for 10 min every lesson to get his fundamental throwing mechanics down.

 

[creepygreenlight]

I have recorded many videos of myself serving however I am not entirely comfortable with putting them on the internet and them being public property. I wonder if me not knowing what my natural service motion is is causing me a problem. From the very first day I played tennis I imitated Federer's service motion and I've learned it doesn't look like Federer's service motion nor does it work like it.

 

[Dragy]

From the very first day I played tennis I imitated Federer's service motion and I've learned it doesn't look like Federer's service motion nor does it work like it.

Here is a guy with screen name Chas Tennis who likes to analize high-speed videos and compare them to pro servers. One very good point he made is that most top servers look very similar near impact, more and more similar closer to impact. There cound be differences in preparaion, takeback, stance (platform vs pinpoint), trophy, but ones legs fire the body up and the racquet head goes into drop, the swing for similar serves would be similar.

I'd say, there are basics to be picked from various servers videos. The differences which are noticable to copy are not really important, but very personal. Concentrate on important things, learn to see intended action common for all top servers, make effort in perfoming that action rather than copying a picture.

 

[creepygreenlight]

Desperate times call for desperate measures. I played a gentleman with a bad knee yesterday and lost 6-4 because he held serve once and I couldn't at all. Had I used my underarm second serve I am confident I'd have won but having used an overarm second serve I double faulted as many times as I got serves in.

My typical service motion:

EDIT: Wrong thread, I thought this was my 'not serving consistently thread' so these aren't second serves to my knowledge

 

[shindemac]

My question to you is: what do you work on when you are practicing serve? Do you just serve a bucket of balls and hope for the best?

 

[Attila_the_gorilla]

1: Forget about Federer and everybody else.
2: Focus on what you're trying to do with the ball.
3. Do it.

 

[creepygreenlight]

My question to you is: what do you work on when you are practicing serve? Do you just serve a bucket of balls and hope for the best?

I often play a game in my head to try and see how many I can get in in a row and my record I think is six. Other times I just hit first serves and don't bother so much about maintaining a streak. Generally when I film myself I just do the latter. Sometimes I try hitting topspin serves but I'm actually getting worse at them. I never used to get a lot of those in but I could get quite a visible kick when I did but now I can't even do that.

 

[oble]

My typical service motion:

1. You seem to be tossing backwards a lot, which also leads to the next point.
2. Your backward toss forces you to jump and land backwards. Basically, you start with your front foot just behind the baseline, but after you hit your serve you land either on the spot or 1 ft further back from the baseline despite leaning forward.

I suggest you get rid of the jump for now and fix your toss first. The toss should at least land on the baseline or a few inches inside the baseline. With the right toss, hit your serve with at least the front foot planted on the ground all the way until the follow through. If you want to add some top spin to your second serve (and first serve too if you want), the toss should drop back to your tossing hand or barely in front of your head if you just toss and hold your trophy pose without hitting it. With the right toss, swing up and diagonally out to the right, picture brushing up the ball roughly from 6 to 12 o'clock or 7 to 1 o'clock.

 

[LeeD]

Remember, you hit your first serve as hard as you can control.
Then on second serves, you hit it 30 mph SLOWER, hopefully with a faster swing adding SPIN to the ball, not ball speed.

 

[shindemac]

I often play a game in my head to try and see how many I can get in in a row and my record I think is six. Other times I just hit first serves and don't bother so much about maintaining a streak. Generally when I film myself I just do the latter. Sometimes I try hitting topspin serves but I'm actually getting worse at them. I never used to get a lot of those in but I could get quite a visible kick when I did but now I can't even do that.

Okay, just as i had thought. Well, you're not improving despite the practicing because you are not practicing perfectly. This needs to be addressed first otherwise you're just wasting your time.

I suggest you go out there and focus on technique, and making changes and adjustments to your serve. Don't just keep serving with no goal. When you net almost all your balls, you should make an adjustment. Plus, you should simplify the serve motion. Also slow down your swing until you can control it and get it in. Right now, it looks like you are just whacking the ball as hard as you can hoping it goes in and that you will improve even though it's obvious you have no control.

Okay, so far i've only discussed general things concerning the way you practice.

 

[steve s]

Visualize where in the box you are going to hit the ball. See the ball hitting inside the box. Now try a serve at half speed ( or at the speed you can get it in). Hit your second serve if needed just like the first, after the visual step. Keep positive. If you double, no big deal.

 

[creepygreenlight]

Visualize where in the box you are going to hit the ball. See the ball hitting inside the box. Now try a serve at half speed ( or at the speed you can get it in). Hit your second serve if needed just like the first, after the visual step. Keep positive. If you double, no big deal.

I'll give it a try but imagining the ball being inside the box whilst looking through the net into the box makes me shudder. Perhaps that's the real reason Isner and Karlovic serve so well.

 

[Attila_the_gorilla]

I'll give it a try but imagining the ball being inside the box whilst looking through the net into the box makes me shudder. Perhaps that's the real reason Isner and Karlovic serve so well.

Try standing up on a little ladder and see what the court looks like from your contact point on serve. You'll find it's much less scary that you thought.

 

[steve s]

Never said anything about the net. Close you eyes and see where your serve hits in the box. Why make the process hard.

 

[Topspin Shot]

Desperate times call for desperate measures. I played a gentleman with a bad knee yesterday and lost 6-4 because he held serve once and I couldn't at all. Had I used my underarm second serve I am confident I'd have won but having used an overarm second serve I double faulted as many times as I got serves in.

My typical service motion:

EDIT: Wrong thread, I thought this was my 'not serving consistently thread' so these aren't second serves to my knowledge

Before I give any advice, what's wrong with your wrist?

 

[GuyClinch]

Like another poster said toss likely #1 problem. Don't hit the bad tosses. Catch them and go again and again if you have too.. Technique wise serve is fine - and I think Fed is fine to emulate his technique is pretty close to the normal one taught..

 

[creepygreenlight]

Before I give any advice, what's wrong with your wrist?

Tenosynivitis apparently but I'm not convinced. Basically I injured it after landing on it like 3-4 years ago before I took up tennis and ever since it hurts to hit forehands, keep goal in football or lift weights after a while.

 

[Topspin Shot]

Tenosynivitis apparently but I'm not convinced. Basically I injured it after landing on it like 3-4 years ago before I took up tennis and ever since it hurts to hit forehands, keep goal in football or lift weights after a while.

Sorry to hear that. Injuries suck. My advice for your serve would be to try to simplify things until you get better ball control. That means keeping both feet on the ground throughout the motion and starting with your racket in the trophy position. Practice tossing until you can consistently catch your toss without moving your feet or doing contortions with your body. Then focus on contacting the ball at full extension in front of your right shoulder and getting solid, controllable contact. A little topspin/sidespin is good, but don't overdo it. As long as you have a continental grip, you should naturally get some spin. The idea is to get the ball in the box at half pace and then work your way up rather than swinging really fast and having no idea where the ball is going.

 

[Adam1985]

Desperate times call for desperate measures. I played a gentleman with a bad knee yesterday and lost 6-4 because he held serve once and I couldn't at all. Had I used my underarm second serve I am confident I'd have won but having used an overarm second serve I double faulted as many times as I got serves in.

My typical service motion:

EDIT: Wrong thread, I thought this was my 'not serving consistently thread' so these aren't second serves to my knowledge

I'm not an expert, so bear that in mind, but here are a few things I think you need to work on based on that video:

1. Tossing the ball forwards and to the right. Like this ---> / rather than like ---> \

2. Keeping your head and chest up and your eyes on the ball. At the moment you're collapsing into the serve, head first, and that will make clearing the net very hard.

3. Making the whole serve action more fluid. This is linked to the point above, but you look very tense and rushed on everything other than the ball toss; try to slow things down while aiming to make the whole action a lot smoother.

 

[creepygreenlight]

Sorry to hear that. Injuries suck. My advice for your serve would be to try to simplify things until you get better ball control. That means keeping both feet on the ground throughout the motion and starting with your racket in the trophy position. Practice tossing until you can consistently catch your toss without moving your feet or doing contortions with your body. Then focus on contacting the ball at full extension in front of your right shoulder and getting solid, controllable contact. A little topspin/sidespin is good, but don't overdo it. As long as you have a continental grip, you should naturally get some spin. The idea is to get the ball in the box at half pace and then work your way up rather than swinging really fast and having no idea where the ball is going.

Okay, in what order would you recommend I start adding things and at what time? For future reference.

 

[richardc-s]

Like most others have said the ball toss is the key to the problem. With the toss further in front of you you can 'fall' into it more and that should mean your arm also has a more natural swing path. At the moment it looks like your swinging arm is a bit cramped up as you're hitting the ball too far back.

Once you have the correct ball toss sorted you can go from there. The rest of the service motion seems ok though!

 

[torpantennis]

For my eyes it looks like the biggest problem is that you're using muscle to swing down on the ball. Swing UP, let the racquet flow down on it's own but try to hit up on the ball.

 

[shindemac]

Okay, so far i've only discussed general things concerning the way you practice.

I'm just started reading talent code 2 nights ago, and it's amazing how similar my advice is to the book. In short, the book outlines a few things every expert does no matter what sport or hobby they are working on. It's important to understand why you aren't making progress even though you are practicing a lot, and that was the point of my previous post. To make you see that you are wasting your practice time. We can tell you technical things to do and work on, but you will not understand how to improve in general (like your forehand, backhand, etc.) It's kinda like the adage giving someone fish vs teaching them to fish.

Here's the things straight from the book and my wording in ()
1. Deep practice (or deliberate practice or practice perfectly)
2. Chunk it up (simplify the serve, focus on basics, focus on toss)
3. Slow it down (uhmm, same lol)
4. Daily practice (practice practice practice!!!)
5. Learn to feel it

Number 5 is hard to explain, but you should notice when you make a mistake. There should be a buzzing in your head when you do something wrong according to the book. Lol, I used this phrase recently when someone decided the ball toss wasn't important for topspin serves. Many have pointed out to focus on your ball toss. Do you notice any buzzing in your head with your ball toss? If not and you think your toss is ok, then there's something wrong. IOW, when you do something wrong, you simply don't notice it.

Anyways, how many of those 5 things are you doing? Notice how many people in this thread gave at least some advice using one of those things or more. Like I said, doesn't matter if you play soccer or play the piano. How are you practicing? What are you focusing on? Are you just serving up a basket a balls and wasting time? That's why you aren't improving.

 

[Topspin Shot]

Okay, in what order would you recommend I start adding things and at what time? For future reference.

Toss comes first. Then hitting half pace with good form. Then adding racket speed. Then being able to add/subtract spin. Finally jumping.

 

[coolschreiber]

To add to this deluge of info. You still need to hit through the ball a little, even with the second serve. To get some forward momentum ... else a good opponent will thwack it.

 

[richardc-s]

To add to this deluge of info. You still need to hit through the ball a little, even with the second serve. To get some forward momentum ... else a good opponent will thwack it.

Very true, I swing just as fast on my second serve as I do my first, but due to the swing path most of that swinging power goes into spinning the ball instead of propelling it. But I think this comes with years of practice, I wouldn't expect someone fairly new to the sport to be able to swing at a second serve full speed and still consistently get it in.

Like all things, practice makes perfect!

 

[creepygreenlight]

Like most others have said the ball toss is the key to the problem. With the toss further in front of you you can 'fall' into it more and that should mean your arm also has a more natural swing path. At the moment it looks like your swinging arm is a bit cramped up as you're hitting the ball too far back.

Once you have the correct ball toss sorted you can go from there. The rest of the service motion seems ok though!

Does this mean kick serves are hit with an arm that is slightly cramped up?

For my eyes it looks like the biggest problem is that you're using muscle to swing down on the ball. Swing UP, let the racquet flow down on it's own but try to hit up on the ball.

I hit a remarkable amount long as well as into the net, can this be done by swinging down on the ball?

Here's the things straight from the book and my wording in ()
1. Deep practice (or deliberate practice or practice perfectly)
2. Chunk it up (simplify the serve, focus on basics, focus on toss)
3. Slow it down (uhmm, same lol)
4. Daily practice (practice practice practice!!!)
5. Learn to feel it

Number 5 is hard to explain, but you should notice when you make a mistake. There should be a buzzing in your head when you do something wrong according to the book. Lol, I used this phrase recently when someone decided the ball toss wasn't important for topspin serves. Many have pointed out to focus on your ball toss. Do you notice any buzzing in your head with your ball toss? If not and you think your toss is ok, then there's something wrong. IOW, when you do something wrong, you simply don't notice it.

Anyways, how many of those 5 things are you doing? Notice how many people in this thread gave at least some advice using one of those things or more. Like I said, doesn't matter if you play soccer or play the piano. How are you practicing? What are you focusing on? Are you just serving up a basket a balls and wasting time? That's why you aren't improving.

I don't get what I'd call a buzzing in my head but I do feel unsatisfied with some tosses and catch them. More often now I'm trying this serving starting from the trophy position which has caused my toss to deteriorate to months of progress (yes it was worse) back. I actually have a video I recorded yesterday which starts with four caught tosses.

I know what I'm trying to achieve when I practice so I suppose that's deliberate practice and I've tried chunking up my serve as I've spent hours on just my toss. I don't practice daily but in the summer holidays I did practice most days and even now I practice hours each week. I do have a problem slowing down my serve though. Only in practice however. In the one match I hit overarm second serves in I had no problem taking the pace off. I was doing it on first serves too. Not that I got any more in than in practice.

 

[dgold44]

Creepy, on the second serve !!!
Assuming your a righty
1) Toss the ball to your LEFT. But the ball must be inside the court!!
Toss the ball a little bit to the left so it is over your head and then brush up and aim higher than usual.

Remember never toss the ball behind the baseline.
Toss the ball to the left of you but inside the COURT !!!!

 

[dgold44]

Creepy, I have been working on this same problem for 3 months and finally the other day I was able to hit several decent top spin serves.
Hopefully I can maintain this for next time I play.
Without a second serve it puts tremendous pressure on your first serve.

 

[mad dog1]

OP, unfortunately there's alot of things that need to be fixed and all the advice you are getting from well intentioned members on this board will not fix the flaws in your service motion because trying to teach the serve via words is extremely difficult. As some have mentioned, you should seek out a good tennis coach to fix your serve. he'll start by helping you develop a stable tossing motion that makes placing the ball in the right place more easily repeatable. once you get this down, it's possible to work on your serving motion which is alot of arm at the moment. the coach will work with you to develop a solid flat serve first and then add a basic topspin 2nd serve.

 

[LeeD]

Maybe a fast topspin first serve, followed by a 30 mph slower, but much more spin, topspin second serve.
I doubt anyone has a "solid" first serve.
I don't, maybe 35%, but of those, well less than 1/2 come back with any interest. But that is NOT solid.

 

[richardc-s]

Does this mean kick serves are hit with an arm that is slightly cramped up?

No the arm isn't cramped up, your back will be arched which means your arm/racket can reach the ball fully extended.

When people say the ball toss for a kick serve should be behind you, they mean physically behind YOU as apposed to behind the baseline. So when you stand side on to serve, behind you is actually to the left side of the court.

But as Mad Dog 1 has said above, it is very hard for people to teach you/ you to learn via an online forum! Really you need somebody to stand with you, watch you serve a few and make suggestions in real time. The serve has so many technical aspects!

 

[racket king]

Almost NOBODY who has played tennis less than 3 years can hit a reliable topspin second serve. It takes years of experience and practice.

Absolute nonsense. My club is full of players who have been coached from Day 0 and have superb topspin 1st and 2nd serves. Not everyone dumps their serves into the bottom of the net and DFs like you do. I could find you a 14 year old boy who coud serve 10+ aces past you per set and a 10-11 girl who wouldn't lose a single service game against you.

 

[LeeD]

Racket King....
I meant to type "solid FLAT first serve". Sorry.
As for your 11 year old, I played a Nationally ranked 47 Jr.Girl last year, singles, two sets, and I got 4 games each set. Yes, she had played a couple of doubles sets prior, while I was a unwarmed up drop in. I had walked onto the courts, hit LESS than 10 balls total for warmup, but she had only 40 minutes, so I said I was ready. She knows my game, I almost always beat her and her sister in doubles, maybe 20-5, me partnered with a weak hitting OLD 3.5 of various names. Her sister is No.2 for St.Joseph High, the girl I played No.1. Both can beat most 3.5 men breadsticks all day.

 

[dgold44]

LEe, that sounds like it would have been a fun match to watch.
Nationally ranked girl taking on the older but crafty guy.