Discussion in 'Racquets' started by Ross K, Sep 11, 2010.
What would you say is the difference between the Pure Storm and the Team version in play?
Hit with the regular pure storm just once and it left a very neutral feeling with me. No big likes or dislikes about the ball. No real strengths or glaring weaknesses. Preferred the crisper and slightly bigger power of similar frames like the MG radical or the KBlade 98, my old frame. Went with the Steam Team because a) the pro at this Palm Springs club just hit any shot in the book with one that was leaded up, and he touted the frame after, and b) when I checked out the specs there are subtle differences that I thought might make this one 'come alive' a bit more with some lead: bigger head size (100 sq inch to the Limited's 95 and the Pure Storm's 98), and a slightly thicker beam width. Figured if I weighed this thing up, it could be nice. Happy to say my hypothesis seems correct. This thing is crisp but so pleasant, swings effortlessly at 11.7, and the serve is SO much cleaner and easier than my Pure Storm Ltd experience, when I felt like if I didn't dime it dead center, the ball just died. Even with various lead tweaks as well.
And: the team still has a very nice 16/20 pattern that offers much directional control. Just really impressed by this sleeper. And I'm even hitting a demo that has a 1/2 grip, which is much too big for my taste in the chunky Bab grip, but still digging it nonetheless.
^^ Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I went back saw the slight headsize and stiffness differences and it does look more interesting to me than the standard, the 11.7oz spec you weighted it to caught my attention as well. I've hit w/most of the rackets in the tweener range where now I'm not sure what else there is left to try that sounds interesting. Currently playing with an APDGT w/lead & leather around 11.7oz, 340 SW. On one hand I like firmer, lower powered stringbeds in the APDGT and really enjoy the older BLX Blade, and going in the other direction something about the PDR2012 made me want to swing harder and play more aggressively, w/better than usual consistency too. Have any suggestions based on that? Here's a link to the frames I've already tried, edited w/the frames I liked best on top: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=7039304&postcount=36
Depends what you're looking for. The Storm Team is softer and definitely more low powered than all three of those sticks. If you really dig those frames (esp the Babs) more than others, not sure if you'd like this one. Softer feel, more control, which is a combo I dig, while I've never gotten along with the too-stiff, too-powerful for me Pure Drive and APD.
^^ Okay, thanks. I didn't think the PS Team would be lower powered than the Blade... still thinking of trying it out though.
Edit: Tried the PDR back in the summer and I just started liking firmer string beds and dense patterns recently, so I'm open to suggestions.
I'm looking for a frame to fill the last spot in the demo box. See my post above.
Steam 99s is already in the demo,
APD2013 & VCore 100 Xi are out
It's sounding good there, JG. Agree re grinder's dream stick comment. Playing later, so look forward to better understanding this racket.
Post up your thoughts when you do, Ray. Curious to see what you make of it as we've liked some pretty similar sticks previously.
I would've thought the 99s would be your kind of thing...?
Im looking to get more control, drive the ball more and still get spin. The VCORE 97 310 has a thin frame, not to heavy and the 16 x 20 string pattern and 98 head will give be more control. I also like the feel and big sweetpot that Yonex provides.
If I had a chance to demo the 99 I would, but my mind is set on the 97 in order to up my game to the level it had when I used the RDIS MP.
Grinder's stick huh? Interesting...
Gads, awesome work on digging up a real sleeper in the Pure Storm Team. As we know in this thread, the PSTGT is one of my all time favorites, and so I have to say this is very impressive stuff.
The question is what the SW is - where did you put the lead?
Blades at 339 are a go. They still swing rather light so I do not notice much of a difference except more plow. The stick I am using has 4 grams in the handle and 2 at the tip. I will try the other with 6 grams in the handle, 2 at the tip next. SWs are close to 340.
Unfortunately my right knee has decided to twinge in pain sometimes when I land from a split step. It was really bugging me for a bit last night and I could not move that well. It seems like it is dependent on the angle of my foot when I land. Any idea what that may be, or is it just the cold weather?
Knee sleeves or brace suggestions are welcome
Also, Gads. Not sure if you ever Juiced, but the Juice Pro sounds so much like your pro stocks. XL length, close to 12 ounces, high SW close to 340. Plus it is the 16x20 pattern, which as we know is a potential Holic Goat since half of us can not make up our minds anymore on anything..lol.
All I will say is that my friend has great taste in classic sticks, and once he demoed the JP he was sold and has not looked back.
Perhaps I simply chose to look over at the wrong moments last night, but I saw you putting a lot of pressure on that right knee with your weight moving the wrong way on that 2 hander. Get your body into that sucker PP!
If you are referring to the VCORE 97 310, I would say that is a good description.
According to Yonex. I have to wait about two weeks more as the rackets are coming by shipment from Japan. I will have too patiently use a Fischer 102 head frame I have until then. Not a bad frame, good feel, but not what I am looking for to play with.
Hmmm..what you mean? I am moving into the court on about all of them now besides the high, deep ball that can be a pain.
Don't I want the weight on my right foot on the backhand? the weird thing is that doesn't cause pain. It is the step after the recovery step with the left foot that does it. That or the split step. Same lateral motion.
I sometimes get "jumpers knee" pain right below the knee cap, but that goes away if I wear the thin knee tendon strap for a few days.
PP, any extra support would help your knees. Try an elastic support sleeve first and see how that goes. Also, instead of jumping into the split step, try a foward 1,2 step and then a tiny hop. Just to minimize the impact. Your a big guy and over the course of a match you are hopping and landing hundreds of times. You need to minimize the shock. Also make sure you have a nice cushiony insole in your tennis shoes. If you are using the stock ones then switch them out immeditely. Stock insoles are good for a few weeks before they flatten out.
Yep, I am using the Scholes Gel insoles, but this is a good point.
I dont think they are in my clay shoes. I bet that is the problem right there. Easy fix. I also am going to get a knee sleeve. It never hurts to have one anyway. In fact, the insoles may be the issue. I played on hard court with my Vapor 9s with the insoles and no pain. doh.
Played so slow and late to the ball the past week. I felt like a different person out there. It sucks man, but gave me a perspective on what knee pain can do to you.
Also have been losing some weight slowly. Down 5 pounds since my video. I want to get from 172 (current) to 160 or 165. I think that will help the load on the knees as well.
any joint pain affects my tennis. i herniated a disc in my lower back about 5 years ago so my back acts up from time to time. whenever i have back pain, i play like a different person. messes everything up. no consistency because i'm late on all the strokes. slower unit turn. reduced range of motion so i lose RHS and therefore less spin and less power. the game goes into the crapper.
You are getting your weight on your right foot but your left leg is not getting in on the action on those high balls. I'd like to see you leaning on that right leg pushing off with your left leg with your body weight into the ball. I think if you saw yourself with video from the side, you'd understand it a little better. I have a tendency to do the same thing on those loopy topspin balls. This is why we are club players. :-?
Oh ok, yeah I get you. I actually have been doing that well lately. I just could not yesterday due to the uncertainty of my knee.
I was basically not able to shift my weight from left foot to right w/out the potential of a twinge so I stopped doing it on anything high.
Wow, you are only 172??? Never would have guessed that...you looked bigger in the video. I have gotten down from 190 to 184 and trying to get to 180.
I have a lot of muscle mass. I can work out for a month and people think I am on roids. It is easy for me to get big..lol.
Positive remarks for the storm team, modded?! Interesting.
I believe the feel is even cleaner with the BLX2-98 compared to the BLX1. The kblade98 is still my favorite out of the 3. The thinner beam and up'd stiffness made for a terrific combo. Raw and powerful.
I'd still be playing with the PresMid if I didn't delve into demos. Then you start to 2nd guess some attributes.
I wrap my left knee (lefty here) with a neoprene sleeve, doubled over twice, right under the knee cap. Keeps the ligaments nice and tight and gives me some assurance on the court.
Started off using it for those occasional aches and twinges from over-playing, now mostly preventative. Mueller maybe?.. no that's a yogurt company. Starts with an M, not at home now but can check on it
Klem that sounds good. I will grab one tonight to have in the bag.
I am usually a fast player on the court, and this past week I have been a shell of myself out there just due to knee twinges.
that sleeve will have to be perfect size to not be too loose or tight. Just get the adjustable tendon straps. I think Nike and others make them. They are usually next to the TE straps.
I have the strap I think. It is a nike patella strap. If that is all I need, I'm good to go. Thought I may need something more intense, but good insoles and a patella strap hopefully will solve this.
Re: storm team, I have about 6ish grams of lead near the top of the handle, over grip, and then 4-5 grams of lead in lead tape in hoop (1/4 tape on both sides from about 2 to 4 on both). SW is listed at 312 stock, so what does that put me at about? Feels like a very comfy 320s. I might add more weight even but may just keep it as is because it really is swinging quite nicely, easily, with pop but not too much.
Re: juice pro. Yeah. Hit with it once, briefly, and actually loved the feel but the one I had swung like a tank so it was brief. Was too sluggish. Balance and weighting of sticks is so peculiar. You can have very similar SW figures in two opposite sticks but they still might feel totally different through the air depending on weighting and even stiffness.
Re:knee, I've had a sprained meniscus in both knees and they're just generally balky. (Dislocated knee in high school, surgery) .. On someone's recommendation I used to play a lot in knee straps - the thin strap that goes beneath knee, or that Rafa used to use via tape job. Anytime my knees are feeling iffy, I go to the strap and it always seems to calm pain or get rid of it .. Though one time the meniscus sprain was bad enough (knife in knee kimd of pain) I had no choice but to take 6 or 8 weeks off for it to heal, per doc orders.
Knee sleeves and braces, have worn them in the past, never liked them. Always 'feel' it more than the simple straps, and they slip down and you're constantly adjusting it, etc. if you want to try a strap, the one from Ace is the best - soft and comfy, no slip, easily adjustable.. Much better than any other that I've tried.
Re: 16/20: definitely a favored holic stringbed for sure. Best of both. 7g had it and the pure storms as well.
KBlade definitely more 'raw'. But sometimes you could feel a twang or a hollow tininess in that rawness. Only had the smallest cup of coffee with the gold blx because the demo felt insanely heavy to me. This one still feels head-heavy but swings MUCH easier and cleaner than the gold demo I had - probably a quality control dud from W. ... This black blade has a smoothness to it on contact that I never got from the KBlade.
Hmm, found things today generally more erratic and not quite in sync inside the Steam room.
A few too many launchers. Serve still misfiring. Responsiveness a bit off on groundstrokes and sensation of lack of consistency/predictability or whatever. Opponent using my spin against me and punishing me. Too loopy 2HBH.
Then back on the positive side of the fence, this thing just swings sooo quick and easy. I was enjoying the biting sensation when ripping into the ball. Again, I thought for more all courts aspects, this rac is damn good. You can create and carve some mad little angles (big fan of hitting inside-out fh with this.) I also played way better with it in the second set (which leads to my final thought below.)
Anyhow, there are variables here (set up, opponent, weather), but the main thing is I simply need to get more time in and get more accustomed to it.
How many hours on your stringbed? Honestly I was surprised that last night the thing felt so controlled for me against a huge hitter. Based on string movement from day 1, was expecting the launchers but didn't arrive. Still expecting a cliff dive in playability and control soon but will roll with it until then. Demo night 3 tonight against a guy who hits lighter but with more spin and less flat than last night.
Agree about the sweetness of swing. Honestly, if I were an instructor or something I'd totally use something like this because I feel like I can swing it all day long and it feeds the ball so comfortably. Another big surprise with this stick: it's great at volleys. Volleys and serves were my two biggest worries going in but all good so far.
gads, I am going to guess high 320 on the SW. So 11.7 and 327 or so. If you want more, add 3 grams at 12 and some weight in the handle.
How is the balance? The easy way to check is to grab a stick you know the balance on and slide it and the team on a screwdriver shaft. Hold the handle down on the table and let the sticks hang off it and you will get a nice balance.
It was strung with 4G 16g @ 53 lbs at the start of this week. Played twice. Approx 3 hrs of use.
Yes, it swings so easy, it's untrue - like the J100, another sweet-swinging Wilson rqt IMO. And +2 on the instructor comment and what you say re volleys. Volleys, more all court aspects etc usually takes me a while to get settled with with most frames - but not this one.
As concluded in above post though, I just need more steam room hours.
Dr. Scholls has a premium sports insole now. I sugges you try it so I don't waste my money on it if it sucks.
I use 2 small straps on my right knee, but this week I've realized my left knee is starting to twinge and make a nuisance of itself. At the rate I'm going, I fully expect to be strapped, taped and bandaged from head to toe within a few short years.
Nothing changes, impressions still the same on all sticks. Like them all.
The Blade is a beast, amazing on serve especially, and befitting of a Power Player.
The leaded Storm Team is wicked, a tight pattern driver of the ball with extra real estate to play with, lovely feel and just easier than the Pure Storm Tour or Limited.
The Steam is weird, different, quirky, but EASY.
Game count tonight:
4-2 with the Blade
3-2 with the Storm
10-1 with the Steam (bookended the night with a 6-1 first set and then playing it for most of the final set)
The Blade and Storm feel far more like what I'm used to, the traditional closed patterned driver, the Steam a more quirky stick that does it a bit differently but keeps getting the job done.
While the rest of the RH's are playing with your fancy Steam rackets, I played tonight with a 115sq in Wilson triad/hammer beast, lol, complete with fan pattern and 9oz weight. The surprising thing is, this frames seems to be quite playable if it had some weight added to the handle. It reminds me a lot about that experiment TW Chris did weighing up a super light power frame, and also of the positive results on the Prince Silver review.
I was surprised at having 10-15 shot rallies with this thing. Had to switch to very flat and low hitting, pretty good from the b-line, crazy fast driving slice machine. Difficult to roll the ball on approaches and angles though, and couldn't keep my first serve in to save my life. Switched back after 1.5hrs and my APDGT's felt like flexible Radicals! :shock:
Gads, PP also,
How much of a "beast?"
I'm thinking how it would compare with my PC Swirly at 347g strung, 335-ish SW.
This is a bit too much for me, but it has a certain qualities which appeal to me big-time, and some of which I find lacking, to a degree, in the 99s...
Fantastic pancaking, plowy solidness (think RD7)... predictable and reliable g/stoke depth (think PT630)... even response... very high quality build/materials used in it's construction giving it a general slightly old school class feel of lushness with some stiffness (think PSC 6.1).
On yesterday's showing, I can certainly echo "The Steam is weird, different, quirky". I didn't find it "EASY" though. I actually found it a bit schizo. :shock:
A first set where the ball was hanging up too much and being finished off clinically (have to say the spectre of the Exo 100 reared it's head in my mind in what was happening to my ball, as well as the rabbit-like backcourt scampering around I was doing.) And not getting the baseline responsiveness and reliability and control frustrated me. Weight/balancing re serve still a challenge.
But then the second set rolls around, and it's quite an extreme reversal. A reversal, I must confess now to having been instigated by playing 3 games or so with the PC. :roll: After which I found I appreciated - and utilized - the easy to swing and effortlessly powerful 99s far more effectively.
Contemplating picking up a Swirly; how do you find it compares with the PT630 (and the Pure Storm GT if you've had the opportunity)?
They share granite solidness and pancaking the ball plow. They also have a rich feel (TBN: the Swirly is stiffer, PT mega-lush.) The Bab is a bit more powerful, a bit more spin on the Bab too. Both are just really top quality composition in the materials, ie., very well made, which translates into that solidness and rich feel. Both aren't exactly effortless to swing (for me.) Both are superb off the backcourt in terms of control, responsiveness, dependability, etc. PT630=legendary mold, capped hoop. PC=boxy. Both also share stunning cosmetics too.
Never ever played a Pure Storm GT I'm afraid.
Very cool, Ross - much appreciated. I'll likely go for it then, as I've noticed that my preferences correspond with your findings (original APD, PT630, etc.). Thanks again.
So when are you switching permanently to the steam room.
I totally understand what you mean about a certain lack of solidity/pancaking.. That is just not the Steam, I'm finding. While the feel is great for a tweener, it's still nowhere near the solid, old school vibe a lot of us always pine for. My growing affinity for the Steam is not feel-based at all, by put results based and basically on the scale of a tweener, not a players stick. Since the KBlade 98 (still a bit on the players side of tweenerdom), I just never liked tweeners. Until I met the BB delta core pro and now the Steam.
Re: the Black Blade, I actually think you might like it very much. It has a solidity to it, a plow, that you'd normally get from a 12-oz frame, and surely that comes from the SW which is right where your swirly is, but static weight is trimmed down from your 12 oz to about 11.5 ( mine with overgrip and damp). Funny thing is, with the blade's head heaviness, it feels like a 12 oz stick when I'm holding it in my hand and flicking it around with my wrist. First impression was that I wouldn't like it, balance too weighty toward the top, will be sluggish. But then I swing the thing and it feels just about right. ... Serves are effortless. Directional control is great with the tight pattern (you might prefer open pattern, given your APD history) and stiffness. I feel the added stiffness coming from my other frames, and if I were a Racquet God I'd take about three or four points off of this stiffness level, but the frame is very comfortable on contact, no jarring vibes even with full poly. I imagine a hybrid is perfect for this thing. I don't feel the need for any more weight in the head on this one like PP, but he's a stronger guy than me so that makes sense. I was an avid KBlade fan and this frame is a sweet, more solid version of that. Of course, Wilson Quality Control is huge here, I think. If you get one that's any more weighted to the head, it'll feel like an unwieldy tank. (Like my gold blade experience).
Not close to that just yet (you haven't felt my tgks), but I can tell some of guys at the gym are getting a bit worried about me showing up at the steam room all week during my one-week guest pass and spending so much time in there. ('Seriously, who is this guy...').. I have a league match Monday and am contemplating using the steam to see how it acts in that environment if the strings aren't shot by then, since the demos have to go back Wednesday I think. But not yet sure.
This is a very polarizing frame and I think loads of them will continue to pop up in the FS section. I've seen enough to where if I found one for cheap ( cheaper than they're going for now), I'd probably pull the trigger to play around with, but not in 'switch' mode just yet. Very impressed, though. I didn't think I'd like it as much as I do.
Ah, but lead, tungsten putty and blue tack give us god-like powers! 10 grams inside the buttcap trapdoor will effectively reduce stiffness by about 3 RDC units, give or take, by reducing the vibration frequency (dynamic stiffness). It will also match the Steam 99S to the specs of the new Speed Pro, so you'd get a preview of how that stick swings.
Corners, does that ratio hold if going beyond 10 g - or are the effects mitigated? Thanks.
Wait, do you mean the Blade? It was the Blade I was referring to that I'd like the stiffness to be lower, not the 99s.
I wouldn't take that as a solid ratio, it's just a number I threw out after doing a quick estimation. 2 units might be a better figure. I'll look at it more closely later. Here's the paper I'm referencing: http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/~cross/PUBLICATIONS/16. Customising.PDF
Nice one JG. Another great post (your on a roll these days, for sure.) Anyhow... I hereby declare my interest in the black Blade is reawakened.
Very interesting - since, anecdotally, Blu Tack has had a massive effect on the APD's feel.
10 grams at butt or tip should reduce vibration frequency by about 4Hz, which is definitely enough to be noticeable in terms of feel, and probably great enough to be noticeable in terms of dwell time too (it should increase dwell just a little). It's impossible to get a solid figure on what this means in terms of RDC stiffness, but comparing frames that are 4 Hz apart in this vibration frequency database (sort by frequency), it looks like 4 Hz equates to 2 or 3 RDC units. Of course, we can't change the static stiffness of the frame itself - the RDC machine will still give the same number - but dynamic stiffness is actually what matters in the end, since dynamic stiffness/vibration frequency is what we actually feel during play.
So you're saying lead in butt cap actually changes the flex of the frame up top and not just the feel on ball contact?
Is this why I also seem to notice more 'firmness'/lex flex in my tgk radical when I triy lead at 12?
So in a way, the best of both worlds? Eliminating or mitigating the negative element of stiffness, the feel, while retaining its benefits, power in the non-center? Fair way to think about it?
Not sure if my flex is lowered from weight, but I am good to go with the 339/339 setup I think.
Real nice controlled boom on both sides. I'm liking it a lot. Played some games today and won the majority against a 4.0 player who is very good at hitting lines so I had to move him around a lot.
Knee is still a little twitchy even with the nike band and proper schools insoles. So that sucks. I felt it most when I was riding my bike there though. Just some twinges now and then when I was pedaling.
May have to bite the bullet and take a few days or a week off in hopes it goes away. Likely just a tiny sprain or something that needs rest. Maybe ice it a bit.
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