Did Alcaraz get the tactics wrong against Sinner?

Terry Tibbs

Terry Tibbs

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I felt that Alcaraz was going to win yesterday. He is the more complete player and has superior movement and variety which grass normally rewards.

Did he get the tactics wrong against Sinner yesterday? Not enough variety and use of the drop shot choosing instead to trade groundstrokes with Sinner far too often which played into Sinners strengths and he got over powered.
 
Terry Tibbs said:
I felt that Alcaraz was going to win yesterday. He is the more complete player and has superior movement and variety which grass normally rewards.

Did he get the tactics wrong against Sinner yesterday? Not enough variety and use of the drop shot choosing instead to trade groundstrokes with Sinner far too often which played into Sinners strengths and he got over powered.
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He could have served more to the spots instead of missing lots of >= 135 MPH serves. Notice when he took off pace and used more shaped services Sinner hit quite a few return errors
Also he shifted too quick from one tactic to another (shape shifting versus baseline power hitting)
Drop shots were not as effective because Jannik really tried to hit as hard as he could (and succeeded). Very difficult to hit drop shots / slices against these powershots
But difference in service was the real key, as nearly always on grass. Did you see the 2 massive second services with which Jannik held leading 4-3 in the fourth set? That was maybe the biggest key moment of the match
 
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Move said:
He could have served more to the spots instead of missing lots of >= 135 MPH serves. Notice when he took off pace and used more shaped services Sinner hit quite a few return errors
Also he shifted too quick from one tactic to another (shape shifting versus baseline power hitting)
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Yes its not just the speed of the serve that makes it effective but also the placement.
 
First things first, his serve was completely off. You cannot win against the best returner on the tour with such a poor first serve numbers ( 52% overall, in one set the number dipped to 42 iirc).
And he seemed a bit passive. All credit where is due however Sinner controlled the center of the court, was aggressive and suffocated alcaraz with depth and consistency
 
Move said:
Did not look at the statistics but imo Novak was serving the best compared with Carlos and Jannik
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Terry Tibbs said:
Serving was about the only thing Novak did well against Sinner.
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This is why I felt that Novak had the best shot of winning a slam here. Nole is in a tough spot against the more dynamic duo as he is forced to shorten points.

How the tables have turned, but kudos for having developed the tools to do so!
 
For me it came down to the serve. Too few first serves, and even worse, these were often condenced into moments where he could not find his serve for the majority of an entire game. The second difference after that was making good of 2nd serve opportunities. Sinner used is chances much more efficiently. But even with just better serving from Alcaraz we may have gotten a 5 set match. It would've also allowed him to use S&V more, which I think he underutilized in this match. Can't do that much behind a 2nd serve.
 
Terry Tibbs said:
I felt that Alcaraz was going to win yesterday. He is the more complete player and has superior movement and variety which grass normally rewards.

Did he get the tactics wrong against Sinner yesterday? Not enough variety and use of the drop shot choosing instead to trade groundstrokes with Sinner far too often which played into Sinners strengths and he got over powered.
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yes, however his drop shot didnt work that well yesterday.
 
I'm starting to think he's overusing the dropshot.

It's obviously very effective against everyone else as he reached the final, but Sinner was ready for it. It's not surprising anymore.

As @Move said above, Sinner was hitting everything with so much power that the dropshots were often floating rather than dropping.

He also needs to learn how to deal with deep returns. He was being forced back a lot yesterday when Sinner was returning his serves, and he was often being put on the defensive from the beginning of his own service games.

Not everyone can return like Sinner but they can certainly try after seeing how effective it was, and Carlos' life could get a lot more difficult now that there's a template out there on how to neutralise him.
 
NatF said:
What tactics did he even have?
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I think he tried to take a leaf out of Federer / Djokovic tactics book : Go against the best shots of your opponent and try to overwhelm them. Carlos from the start had thunder serves and big hits from the baseline. First games of the first set he was the better player. But then came the loose service game and Jannik broke him. Jannik could and maybe should have won the first set. But we all seen that Carlos took advantage of hesitations by Jannik. That bh dug out stretched shot was magic !
 
JasonZ said:
yes, however his drop shot didnt work that well yesterday.
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He missed a lot of drop shots, and also short crossing/passing drops, and he wisely limited his use of them due to it not working as well as usual. Unfortunately, it robs him one one of his best weapons.
He was missing a lot of groundstrokes that he usually hits for winners.
His second serve failed him, and likely is what we could argue cost him most of the match since his first serve wasn't stellar on the day either.
Having said all this - he had great competition on the day as well. Sinner was not holding anything back. There were rallies where the ball never went below 93mph.
As you can see, when you are playing the best, and not quite at your best, you are not gonna come out on top.
 
Terry Tibbs said:
I felt that Alcaraz was going to win yesterday. He is the more complete player and has superior movement and variety which grass normally rewards.

Did he get the tactics wrong against Sinner yesterday? Not enough variety and use of the drop shot choosing instead to trade groundstrokes with Sinner far too often which played into Sinners strengths and he got over powered.
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Massively. Didn't anticipate Sinner would serve to his FH alot on 2nd serves and on the ad side on his own serve went far too often to Sinners BH and hardly used the slice serve down the middle. By the 3rd and 4th sets most Alcaraz serves were coming back with interest at his feet. Also was going for too big 1sr serves which meant serving too low a percentage and too many double faults.

Carlos is better when he has more shape on the ball and doesn't hit as hard. He hits with more RPm than Nadal used to so his FH when he goes that route is tough to handle over 5 sets and when he slows his serve down can place it well to get short returns or aces.

However being a grass court it seemed to me he felt he had to flatten out the groundies and serve bombs and it played right into Sinners hands as he gave up too many UFEs .

People are not realising the importance mentally of their only other grass court match in 2022. I was there and Alcaraz played his more natural game that day using more spin and got creamed by Sinner before he then flattened out the shots and got the third set before losing. That match definitely was in remembered by both yesterday.

The difference though that I blame JCF for was not realising that in 2022 on th fast slicker court 1 the ball wasn't receptive to higher RPMs. This year however, as Swiatek proved, due to the hot weather having firmed the courts up, a clay court or Indian Wells or USO type game could be employed.

I also think Sinner destroying Djokovic (despite Novaks injury) really got to Alcaraz. I saw it in his post match presser. He was visibly nervous and admitted his surprise at that score.

Don't think Alcaraz needs to get too down. Over the two weeks the right player actually won. Its still been an amazing few months the by Alcaraz, so he should still be pleased where he is at and focus on winning the USO where he is due actually. Conditions there should suit him perfectly
 
I think he was just gassed. Got too confident as well and started spraying unforced errors. Sinner wasn't playing super clean tennis either but reeled it in and played safer and served better when Alcaraz couldn't. Kudos to Sinner. Sometimes winning matches is not about being the better player but about not being the worse player.
 
messiahrobins said:
Massively. Didn't anticipate Sinner would serve to his FH alot on 2nd serves and on the ad side on his own serve went far too often to Sinners BH and hardly used the slice serve down the middle. By the 3rd and 4th sets most Alcaraz serves were coming back with interest at his feet. Also was going for too big 1sr serves which meant serving too low a percentage and too many double faults.

Carlos is better when he has more shape on the ball and doesn't hit as hard. He hits with more RPm than Nadal used to so his FH when he goes that route is tough to handle over 5 sets and when he slows his serve down can place it well to get short returns or aces.

However being a grass court it seemed to me he felt he had to flatten out the groundies and serve bombs and it played right into Sinners hands as he gave up too many UFEs .

People are not realising the importance mentally of their only other grass court match in 2022. I was there and Alcaraz played his more natural game that day using more spin and got creamed by Sinner before he then flattened out the shots and got the third set before losing. That match definitely was in remembered by both yesterday.

The difference though that I blame JCF for was not realising that in 2022 on th fast slicker court 1 the ball wasn't receptive to higher RPMs. This year however, as Swiatek proved, due to the hot weather having firmed the courts up, a clay court or Indian Wells or USO type game could be employed.

I also think Sinner destroying Djokovic (despite Novaks injury) really got to Alcaraz. I saw it in his post match presser. He was visibly nervous and admitted his surprise at that score.

Don't think Alcaraz needs to get too down. Over the two weeks the right player actually won. Its still been an amazing few months the by Alcaraz, so he should still be pleased where he is at and focus on winning the USO where he is due actually. Conditions there should suit him perfectly
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Cahill also mentioned Sinner watching a ton of Alcaraz matches to prepare. I think he obviously took note of what Djokovic did in Australia and tried his best to replicate it, dominating his second serve and using his BH down the line to great effect.
 
GRASScaraz said:
Cahill also mentioned Sinner watching a ton of Alcaraz matches to prepare. I think he obviously took note of what Djokovic did in Australia and tried his best to replicate it, dominating his second serve and using his BH down the line to great effect.
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I think people are exaggerating serve thing both won similar number of first and second serve , difference was on big points Carlos overplayed or brain farted with his placement and shot selection ( his biggest weakness) Sinner kept it simple on big points, few points here and there and you would be getting a 5 setter. Many times Carlos was 30-15 or 15-0 , 40-15 and botched it up with stupid return or playing it long or a very predictable drop shot.
 
What surprising to me is Carlos is usually playing his best tennis after 3 sets but he was still playing after 3rd set like he would play at the start of the match and having his mental walkabouts , horrible shot selection even till last game of the match.
 
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GRASScaraz said:
Cahill also mentioned Sinner watching a ton of Alcaraz matches to prepare. I think he obviously took note of what Djokovic did in Australia and tried his best to replicate it, dominating his second serve and using his BH down the line to great effect.
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Fritz actually used the BHDTL as often as he could and Alcaraz had no answers. That FH side of Alcaraz is a weakness and more players seem aware of it, Fogini attacked it as well. Won't surprise me if Alcaraz Wimbledon career goes the way of Nadals.

Alcaraz definitely prefers time on that FH so clay and slower hard courts I'd expect him to dominate but I think W and AO might be more challenging for him against Sinner and others who can hit flat to his FH
 
kangaroo1973 said:
First things first, his serve was completely off. You cannot win against the best returner on the tour with such a poor first serve numbers ( 52% overall, in one set the number dipped to 42 iirc).
And he seemed a bit passive. All credit where is due however Sinner controlled the center of the court, was aggressive and suffocated alcaraz with depth and consistency
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His serve wasn’t off. He felt the pressure of the returns from Sinner. He went for more because he felt the pressure, and he outaced Sinners. Stop making excuses for him. He lost because he didn’t face grandpa Djokovic who doesn’t have a declining return, but rather a more aggressive younger version of him. That’s why it was low
 
A lot of good points mentioned in this thread! I noticed that Sinner’s energy level is much better than it was in RG, leading him to stay on the gas throughout the match. An we all know that when Sinner pummels those powerful forehands, he is pretty much unstoppable!
 
if they play just regular baseline (bashing) points, sinner will be more successful over the long run. he is better at absorbing pace and his backhand is way better. alcaraz forehand is better if he has time.
alcaraz has to develop his slice, to change the rhythm, give himself time and/or bring sinner to the net. he must try to find ways to break up the standard rally exchanges, because his forehand backhand combo is slightly worse.
given his talent that seems doable.
 
He was passive all match, just like he was against Djokovic at AO. Funny enough followed strikingly similar scripts, Alcaraz comes out aggressive takes the first set in both matches 6-4, gets broken in the first service game of the second set in both matches he then plays passively for the rest of the match while the other guy dictates pace and loses 6-4, 6-3, 6-4 to Djokovic and 6-4, 6-4, 6-4 to Sinner.

Fair play to Sinner, he wasn't holding anything back in this match, kept up the aggression, didn't give Alcaraz a moment to breathe and choked the life out of him but Alcaraz never adjusted and almost seemed ok with losing the match, hardly even heard any of his trademark grunting which is a true sign that he was never really into it. He seemed kind of tired all tournament, he needs a reset for hard court season.

With all that said, Sinner earned it and is now a massive favorite for all the hard court tournaments. I have a feeling that he's going to be setting records, he looks unstoppable tbh. I think Federer's 237 consecutive weeks at #1 is in jeopardy.
 
I don't think he had tactics wrong. He just didn't play up his capabilities, which is becoming an increasing problem for him in big matches since after Wimbledon last year. And Sinner was a big part of his problem too, as he played more pro actively and positively than he has in any of his recent matches with Alcarez too.

Tactically the only thing he did wrong was in fact the over use of drop shots. Other than that he just needed to execute better, and be more consistent than he was.
 
NYTennisfan said:
He was passive all match, just like he was against Djokovic at AO. Funny enough followed strikingly similar scripts, Alcaraz comes out aggressive takes the first set in both matches 6-4, gets broken in the first service game of the second set in both matches he then plays passively for the rest of the match while the other guy dictates pace and loses 6-4, 6-3, 6-4 to Djokovic and 6-4, 6-4, 6-4 to Sinner.

Fair play to Sinner, he wasn't holding anything back in this match, kept up the aggression, didn't give Alcaraz a moment to breathe and choked the life out of him but Alcaraz never adjusted and almost seemed ok with losing the match, hardly even hurt any of his trademark grunting which is a true sign that he was never really into it. He seemed kind of tired all tournament, he needs a reset for hard court season.
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The Australian Open match he was really terrible. He wasn't as bad yesterday, but still never on top of things. He is having an increasing problem playing his best in big matches.
 
Terry Tibbs said:
I felt that Alcaraz was going to win yesterday. He is the more complete player and has superior movement and variety which grass normally rewards.

Did he get the tactics wrong against Sinner yesterday? Not enough variety and use of the drop shot choosing instead to trade groundstrokes with Sinner far too often which played into Sinners strengths and he got over powered.
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Yes, Carlos did a few things wrong but I don't know if that was his or his coaches' fault. Nowadays, coaching allowed and the player gets all sorts of suggestions from his box. One thing that caught my eye was the service that began pretty well but those 135 mph blasts get attention. I think he should've used more brain than that power at times. Another issue I believed was his receiving on Sinner's service, especially the second service that at times Carlos stood too far and even further than on Jannik's first service. Top spin serve is top spin alright but contemplating the return from so far, and perhaps so high, isn't what he should've planned. That was not a usual Carlos Alcaraz.
 
Pass750 said:
Alcaraz was flat as a pancake, not to mention questionable decision making that is par for the course. He looked lost out there.
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I think the King of Spain being in the audience really threw him. He was so muffled and subdued compared to his usual self
 
I think it was always going to be an up-hill battle for him. Given how tall an order he found Sinner at Roland Garros, Sinner at Wimbledon was always going to be a tall order. Not to say he couldn't win the match, but it's inexplicable that he went in as favorite - though IBM Watson did decide prior to the match that it realized that Sinner was favorite.
 
The match was in Sinner’s hands that day, Alcaraz simply wasn’t a factor. Once Sinner stopped holding back and believed in himself it was game over for Alcaraz.

Alcaraz simply had zero idea of what to do at that point and even if he had more first serves in he still would have lost.

Alcaraz needs a better disguise and variety for his serve instead, and a revamped strategy, but that’s part of growing as he’s only 22yr.
 
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mike danny said:
Yes, but not at Wimb and barely got over the line at RG.
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You're using a one match sample size to insinuate that Alcaraz lost simply because he ran into an ATG who he had beaten 5 in a row prior including twice at Slams and in a Masters final.

Sinner was certainly better yesterday and fully deserving of the title but lets not act like Alcaraz can't beat anybody better than the old legend
 
Rosstour said:
I think the King of Spain being in the audience really threw him. He was so muffled and subdued compared to his usual self
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It was weird, he didn't even do the grunting much. It's as if he was in awe of the moment and Sinner was the more seasoned player. It could also be that Sinner simply wanted it more since he was on the receiving end of 5 straight defeats to his main rival and never won Wimbledon. He certainly seemed more motivated yesterday
 
NYTennisfan said:
It was weird, he didn't even do the grunting much. It's as if he was in awe of the moment and Sinner was the more seasoned player. It could also be that Sinner simply wanted it more since he was on the receiving end of 5 straight defeats to his main rival and never won Wimbledon. He certainly seemed more motivated yesterday
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So you noticed it as well. He never lit the fire. I think he was trying to behave himself extra bc of the King’s presence and the occasion.
 
Rosstour said:
So you noticed it as well. He never lit the fire. I think he was trying to behave himself extra bc of the King’s presence and the occasion.
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Sounds weird to say but I think Alcaraz is too nice at times. I think the main difference between the Big 3 and Alcaraz is that they were killers on the court, unrelenting, and I think Sinner has some that DNA as well. I feel that Carlos lets the foot off the gas at times because he respects the opponent too much or in the case of yesterday, the occasion. Again though, no excuses, Sinner won and 100% earned it but Alcaraz was definitely a bit off mentally yesterday almost as if he was conceding the crown. I don't even think Sinner played his A game, it was just a pretty emotionless final in general and Sinner merely did what he had to do to win because Alcaraz wasn't pushing him to his limit on this day.
 
Alcaraz should have utilized slices (not drop shots) and hit his shots flatter with lower ball trajectory like Dimitrov did against Sinner in R4.

As a 5ft11 player, he should have also reduced MPHs and placed his serves better with spin.
 
Terry Tibbs said:
I felt that Alcaraz was going to win yesterday. He is the more complete player and has superior movement and variety which grass normally rewards.

Did he get the tactics wrong against Sinner yesterday? Not enough variety and use of the drop shot choosing instead to trade groundstrokes with Sinner far too often which played into Sinners strengths and he got over powered.
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The truth is more trivial

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