Did any player "ruin" another player's season as much as Novak did to Federer in 2015?

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McEnroeisanartist

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Did any player "ruin" another player's season as much as Novak did to Federer in 2015?

If we assume that if the winner does not exist, and the loser wins all the matches

2015 - Federer without Djokovic goes from a season of 2 Grand Slam finals, Year End final, 1 Masters to:
2 Grand Slam wins, Year End Championship, and 3 Masters

2011 - Nadal without Djokovic goes from a season of 1 Grand Slam and 1 Masters to:
3 Grand Slams and 5 Masters

2008 - Federer without Nadal - Federer goes from a season of 1 Grand Slam and 0 Masters to:
3 Grand Slams and 2 Masters

I suppose have to note: 1995 - Agassi without Sampras, 1989 - Lendl without Becker, 1984 - Connors without McEnroe

Note: in 2004 Federer defeated Hewitt 3 times in Grand Slams and in 2009 Federer defeated Soderling 3 times in Grand Slams. But, I think most people would agree that it is not an automatic for them to have gone onto win each Grand Slam.
 
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You mention McEnroe for Connors in 1984 in your post. That's a pretty big one. Under your assumptions, Connors wins the French Open, Wimbledon, the U.S. Open, and the WCT finals, as well as Queen's Club and Canada. In fact, under this scenario, Connors almost certainly plays the Australian Open and maybe even completes the calendar year Grand Slam. And all of this would have been at age 31/32.
 
Some people are capable of spoiling only one/few seasons. Nothing more.

Oh, btw... Speaking of spoilsport, you have Federer who spoiled the entire career of three generations players. Yeah, some record.
 
1962: Emerson without Laver -- Sixty-two suddenly becomes a career year for Emmo, since the Rocket defeated him in the finals of the Australian, French, and U.S. championships, and four other tournaments as well, including Rome and Queen's!
 
Djokovic really stopped Federer time and again 2014-2015, and by this point in time has likely cost Federer more titles than Nadal.
 
McEnroeisanartist said:
Did any player "ruin" another player's season as much as Novak did to Federer in 2015?

If we assume that if the winner does not exist, and the loser wins all the matches

2015 - Federer without Djokovic goes from a season of 2 Grand Slam finals, Year End final, 1 Masters to:
2 Grand Slam wins, Year End Championship, and 3 Masters

2011 - Nadal without Djokovic goes from a season of 1 Grand Slam and 1 Masters to:
3 Grand Slams and 5 Masters

2008 - Federer without Nadal - Federer goes from a season of 1 Grand Slam and 0 Masters to:
2 Grand Slams and 2 Masters

I suppose have to note: 1995 - Agassi without Sampras, 1989 - Lendl without Becker, 1984 - Connors without McEnroe

Note: in 2004 Federer defeated Hewitt 3 times in Grand Slams and in 2009 Federer defeated Soderling 3 times in Grand Slams. But, I think most people would agree that it is not an automatic for them to have gone onto win each Grand Slam.
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Actually, 2008 becomes a 3 GS season for Federer
 
sportsfan1 said:
Djokovic really stopped Federer time and again 2014-2015, and by this point in time has likely cost Federer more titles than Nadal.
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Nobody's mentioning that Djoker is 6 years younger than Roger. They're not even generational rivals! As an ATG himself, Djoker should have been been dominating Roger from 2010 considering their significant age difference. In any case, fed beat Novak six times in majors, which is nothing to sneeze at, some of these wins happening long after his peak (2011 FO, 2012 W).
 
Also Djokovic stopped Murray in 2015 and early 2016:
-AO 2015-16
-Miami 2015
-Madrid 2016
-Roland Garros 2015-16
-Shanghai 2015
-Paris 2015
 
Federer reaching so many finals at that age is more indicative of how weak the era was. As beatlefan said, Nole should've been dominating Fed from 2010 as he's 6 years younger.

He only started to do this from 2014 vs 33 year old grandpa and only in slams. Grandpa still dominated the fast court BO3 events (Shanghai, Dubai, Cincy).

As for the topic, Djokovic vs Nadal in 2011. Nadal vs Federer 08. Federer vs Hewitt 04 and Rafa vs Djokovic 2013.

And of course, Djokovic vs Murray 2015/2016.
 
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Not a massive damage, but without Sampras in 1999, Agassi would have had a great shot at Wimbledon and World Tour Finals.

Combine that with his FO and USO titles that season, as well as AO next season, he would have held all five biggest tournaments, which was never achieved until Novak did it in 2015-16. Add to that his Atlanta Gold from the most recent Olympics and Agassi would be the greatest definition of the heavyweight champion. :D
 
ollinger said:
does this mean the thread is more or less pointless?
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No, not necessarily. I think there is a big difference between saying a player missed out on winning a tournament when they actually reached the final, versus a player losing in the 4th round of quarterfinals of a Grand Slam, like Hewitt in 2004.
 
6-3 6-0 said:
Pepe being made a scapegoat for Djokovic's losses at Wimbledon, Olympics and USO when he wasn't even hired until after the last slam.
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I stand corrected. He ruined the last bit of his 2016 year
 
Obviously Djokovic prevented Federer from having a much better 2015 but Fed still managed(yet again) to be a pain in the ass for Novak that year too. Without him, Nole would've had a much better overall W-L% for the season(probably 3-4 defeats at the most), a first Cinci title, another trophy in Dubai and most likely another 40+ match winning streak after the 2016 AO, and this is without even mentioning all the party pooping Roger did in 2011, '12 and '14. It just always feels like Federer's the one to bring Novak back down to Earth whenever he's on a really great run and everyone's talking about how unbeatable he looks. I wonder sometimes if he thinks to himself "bloody hell, it's a good job I can still play at such a high level even as a grandpa ;) cos there's hardly anyone else out there capable of taking the b@stard down!".
 
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Djokovic2011 said:
Obviously Djokovic prevented Federer from having a much better 2015 but Fed still managed(yet again) to be a pain in the ass for Novak that year too. Without him, Nole would've had a much better overall W-L% for the season(probably 3-4 defeats at the most), a first Cinci title, another trophy in Dubai and most likely another 40+ match winning streak after the 2016 AO, and this is without even mentioning all the party pooping Roger did in 2011, '12 and '14. It just always feels like Federer's there to bring Novak back down to earth whenever he's on a really great run and everyone's talking about how unbeatable he looks. I wonder sometimes if he thinks to himself "bloody hell, it's a good job I can still play at such a high level even as a grandpa ;) cos there's hardly anyone else out there capable of taking the b@stard down!".
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2015 AO you mean regarding the bolded ;)
 
Pete Sampras ruined Andre Agassi in 1995.

I'm coming for ya.

Yes, coming to get your ass whipped once more at the open, baby.

agassi-sampras-1995-lead.jpg
 
Djokovic2011 said:
No, I meant 2016 . Pretty sure he would've had another long winning streak if he'd not lost that RR match at the '15 WTF
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Oh right, I forgot about that one.

But he still wouldn't have had one since he would have lost in Dubai anyway.

However, regarding 2015 AO, that kind of winning streak you speak of would have occurred, as there would not have been a Dubai loss without Roger ;)
 
Federer against Hewitt in 2004, Lleyton lost to Federer 6x that year - including 3 slams and the YEC. Probably has his career year without Federer and carries some great momentum into 2005.

Maybe Sampras against Agassi in 1999 is worth a mention, Andre did had an amazing year but he probably denied an ATG year by Pete.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
@mike danny: Not sure what you mean by "he still wouldn't have had one". :confused:
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I meant that Djokovic still wouldn't have had that 40+ winning streak even without that RR loss to Fed at the WTF.

Beijing 5 matches + Shanghai 5 matches + Paris 5 matches + WTF 5 matches + AO 7 matches + Dubai 2 matches = 29 matches. The loss to Lopez in Dubai would have probably still occurred.

However, without the Fed loss in Dubai 2015, this would have been Nole's winning streak:

Paris 5 matches + WTF 5 matches (Nole would have had a different opponent in the final in this hypothetical) + AO 7 matches + Dubai 5 matches + IW 6 matches + Miami 6 matches + MC 5 matches + Rome 5 matches + RG 6 matches = 50 match winning streak.

Without the Fed loss in Dubai, Djokovic would have had the longest winning streak known to mankind.
 
mike danny said:
I meant that Djokovic still wouldn't have had that 40+ winning streak even without that RR loss to Fed at the WTF.

Beijing 5 matches + Shanghai 5 matches + Paris 5 matches + WTF 5 matches + AO 7 matches + Dubai 2 matches = 29 matches. The loss to Lopez in Dubai would have probably still occurred.

However, without the Fed loss in Dubai 2015, this would have been Nole's winning streak:

Paris 5 matches + WTF 5 matches (Nole would have had a different opponent in the final in this hypothetical) + AO 7 matches + Dubai 5 matches + IW 6 matches + Miami 6 matches + MC 5 matches + Rome 5 matches + RG 6 matches = 50 match winning streak.

Without the Fed loss in Dubai, Djokovic would have had the longest winning streak known to mankind.
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What about the US Open and Doha at the beginning of last year? ;)
 
NatF said:
Federer against Hewitt in 2004, Lleyton lost to Federer 6x that year - including 3 slams and the YEC. Probably has his career year without Federer and carries some great momentum into 2005.

Maybe Sampras against Agassi in 1999 is worth a mention, Andre did had an amazing year but he probably denied an ATG year by Pete.
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Agassi would have won 3 slams in 1999 without Pete and possibly the Agassi sialm at the AO in 2000.

Hewitt in 2004 and 2005 would have been the best slam player without Fed. Final at Wimb and USO in 2004 + Final in AO, Wimb and USO in 2005. It's very likely that he wins 2 slams out of these.

Also possibly another GS final at the 2004 AO and an YEC title in 2004.

So yeah, Federer screwed Hewitt in 2004 and 2005.
 
mike danny said:
However, without the Fed loss in Dubai 2015, this would have been Nole's winning streak:

Paris 5 matches + WTF 5 matches (Nole would have had a different opponent in the final in this hypothetical) + AO 7 matches + Dubai 5 matches + IW 6 matches + Miami 6 matches + MC 5 matches + Rome 5 matches + RG 6 matches = 50 match winning streak.

Without the Fed loss in Dubai, Djokovic would have had the longest winning streak known to mankind.
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Djokovic lost to Karlovic in 2015 Doha QF at the beginning of the year.
 
BeatlesFan said:
Nobody's mentioning that Djoker is 6 years younger than Roger. They're not even generational rivals! As an ATG himself, Djoker should have been been dominating Roger from 2010 considering their significant age difference. In any case, fed beat Novak six times in majors, which is nothing to sneeze at, some of these wins happening long after his peak (2011 FO, 2012 W).
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So Federer always has 6 years more of experience! :D:D
 
Come on, this topic is specifically about some "what if..." cases. Still somebody find a way to turn it into a Fed vs Djo fight.

Nadal denied several chances to have CYGS of Roger.

So did Waw 2015.

And of course the cases OP's mentioned.
 
KINGROGER said:
Federer reaching so many finals at that age is more indicative of how weak the era was. As beatlefan said, Nole should've been dominating Fed from 2010 as he's 6 years younger.

He only started to do this from 2014 vs 33 year old grandpa and only in slams. Grandpa still dominated the fast court BO3 events (Shanghai, Dubai, Cincy).

As for the topic, Djokovic vs Nadal in 2011. Nadal vs Federer 08. Federer vs Hewitt 04 and Rafa vs Djokovic 2013.

And of course, Djokovic vs Murray 2015/2016.
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It has to be amazing that the speed, fitness and agility of players 10-15 years younger than Fed are being surpassed as advantages through Federer's skill. That, or Fed actually, somehow has the same level of physical fitness. May things are not clear. If one of the newcomers such as Thiem or Zverev had the skill level of say Hewitt or Nalbandian, would they be beating Fed handily now? Are Nishikori and Raonic not at the same level as past players that Federer dominated? Or has Federer just raised his level so high that he's dominant over highly skilled youngsters?


BeatlesFan said:
Nobody's mentioning that Djoker is 6 years younger than Roger. They're not even generational rivals! As an ATG himself, Djoker should have been been dominating Roger from 2010 considering their significant age difference. In any case, fed beat Novak six times in majors, which is nothing to sneeze at, some of these wins happening long after his peak (2011 FO, 2012 W).
Click to expand...

All credit to Fed of course for still being able to compete with the best. Sometimes I just like to consider the match and result for discussion's sake, assuming both players are playing at a high level. Otherwise, there really can't be a comparison at all, since they will never, or only for a very small duration, be at their peaks at the same time. Federer had obviously been beating everybody else at the time, including Murray handily, and has now started beating Rafa regularly. So it goes to show that, while we still give Fed the benefit of doubt for his age, Djokovic during that timeframe was somewhat of a bogeyman for Federer.
 
Backspin1183 said:
2017 - Without Federer, Nadal would have won 1 Grand Slam title and 1 Masters 1000.
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Unironically this. The GOAT debate literally hung on one last Slam final between the two. If Nadal had won it, Nadal would be listed in most people's books as the GOAT, instead now he'll be forever looked at as a career #2 and maybe 4th GOAT behind Fed, Sampras and Cvac.
 
McEnroeisanartist said:
Did any player "ruin" another player's season as much as Novak did to Federer in 2015?

If we assume that if the winner does not exist, and the loser wins all the matches

2015 - Federer without Djokovic goes from a season of 2 Grand Slam finals, Year End final, 1 Masters to:
2 Grand Slam wins, Year End Championship, and 3 Masters

2011 - Nadal without Djokovic goes from a season of 1 Grand Slam and 1 Masters to:
3 Grand Slams and 5 Masters

2008 - Federer without Nadal - Federer goes from a season of 1 Grand Slam and 0 Masters to:
3 Grand Slams and 2 Masters

I suppose have to note: 1995 - Agassi without Sampras, 1989 - Lendl without Becker, 1984 - Connors without McEnroe

Note: in 2004 Federer defeated Hewitt 3 times in Grand Slams and in 2009 Federer defeated Soderling 3 times in Grand Slams. But, I think most people would agree that it is not an automatic for them to have gone onto win each Grand Slam.
Click to expand...
2011, Djokovic without nadal.... career grandslam and almost perfect year.
 
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