Did any pros use gut mains/kevlar crosses in the 90s?

[Bobby Jr]

Was just thinking about Federer's set-up and how the use of poly crosses with gut mains is considered one of the most spinny set-ups and a way to tame the power of gut at low tensions.

I wonder if any pros in the early 90s had any luck using gut mains and kevlar crosses. It seems like it would have been a good, early version of what Federer uses now > gut for spin and power and the kevlar to tame the power so the whole thing can be strung at a lower tension minus the downside of being overpowered.

Does anyone know of any similar set-ups used by pros? The kevlar strings used in Prince Pro-Blend were pretty smooth and they were available since the late 80s. Surely someone tried it as described above and realised the potential? It would be a far cry from the 65lbs+ full gut set-ups that were common at the time for sure.

 

[corners]

Was just thinking about Federer's set-up and how the use of poly crosses with gut mains is considered one of the most spinny set-ups and a way to tame the power of gut at low tensions.

I wonder if any pros in the early 90s had any luck using gut mains and kevlar crosses. It seems like it would have been a good, early version of what Federer uses now > gut for spin and power and the kevlar to tame the power so the whole thing can be strung at a lower tension minus the downside of being overpowered.

Does anyone know of any similar set-ups used by pros? The kevlar strings used in Prince Pro-Blend were pretty smooth and they were available since the late 80s. Surely someone tried it as described above and realised the potential? It would be a far cry from the 65lbs+ full gut set-ups that were common at the time for sure.

Kevlar strings are braided out of many small strands. This makes for a string with a very rough, high-friction, surface. As a cross string with gut mains it would be awful, and would give none of the extra spin associated with gut mains and copoly crosses. That combination works so well because the copoly crosses are slick, hard and slippery, which allows the elastic gut mains to slide sideways and snapback freely, putting extra spin on the ball.

Rough kevlar crosses would make it very difficult for the gut mains to slide freely, and in fact would very quickly abrade them, notch them and break them. Gut mains/Kevlar crosses would be a very short-lived stringjob.

In the 90s, however, some players did use Kevlar mains and gut crosses, which is a decent combination - very precise, but only average spin.

 

[Bobby Jr]

Kevlar strings are braided out of many small strands. This makes for a string with a very rough, high-friction, surface. As a cross string with gut mains it would be awful, and would give none of the extra spin associated with gut mains and copoly crosses...

Rough kevlar crosses would make it very difficult for the gut mains to slide freely...

They may be braided but some I've seen (either the pro blend crossfire kevlars, I forget which) had a completely smooth coating on them when fresh.

Even if they were rough I'm not sure there wouldn't be some benefit still. A non-even surface to a string might not have as much negative effect on movement when used with gut mains as you think. In the least the benefits may still outweigh the downside(s).

If taming the power of the gut at lower tensions was the aim here then having kevlar crosses would seem to have potential in an era without polys. I just wondered if anyone way back in the 90s used this combo or something similar.

 

[pvw_tf]

I wonder if any pros in the early 90s had any luck using gut mains and kevlar crosses.

Located in Europe, I never did any rackets in a combination of gut and kevlar. At first most pro players were playing full gut. For sure when Babolat started sponsoring way more with the 2 red lines. Rackets were at that time less powerful so you needed the extra power of gut.

Also almost never did a kevlar/sync string job in other than a prince 110.

available since the late 80s.

The first time I strung with it must have been 1983. A Japaneses player, playing with a wilson pro staff 85 came to me to string his racket with a testing string. In plastic, no name on it. No letters on the string.

Had to string it up same tension as his VS 17 string at 27 kg. Was at that time using a drop weight and was totally amazed the "weird" string was not stretching. So had to adjust the way I handled the drop weight.

When done it did feel like a piece of tropical wood. The guy picket it up. Did go for training, he hit with it for 4 balls. Give it to it trainings partner, he hit for 4 balls. And he came back to me in with a vs 17 and the simple line polite as he was: "Please could you cut this out and string it with this".

Peter

 

[The Dark Knight]

Agassi used Kevlar and gut.

 

[McLovin]

Agassi used Kevlar and gut.

Yes, but his were Kevlar mains/gut crosses. The OP was asking about gut mains/Kevlar crosses.

 

[The Dark Knight]

Yes, but his were Kevlar mains/gut crosses. The OP was asking about gut mains/Kevlar crosses.

Yes correct.

I think it's a great idea...but back in the 90's no one really used poly.

Agassi gave up Kevlar because luxilon came along and because Kevlar was hurting his wrist.

Poly is simply a better string for a short period of time. But for club players kevlar I believe is better because its playability will last and last while poly loses its playability rather quickly.

What you have today is club players using dead poly strings that play differently in every match . The pro change their strings every match and that is why they stick with poly over Kevlar.

A club player and a pro have completely different needs. They need to do different things.

A club player is not going to change his strings after every match so poly makes little sense .....Kevlar on the other hand plays similar to poly but it's playability lasts so much longer and that is why it fits a club players needs more than poly.

 

[Sander001]

They may be braided but some I've seen (either the pro blend crossfire kevlars, I forget which) had a completely smooth coating on them when fresh.

Even if they were rough I'm not sure there wouldn't be some benefit still. A non-even surface to a string might not have as much negative effect on movement when used with gut mains as you think. In the least the benefits may still outweigh the downside(s).

If taming the power of the gut at lower tensions was the aim here then having kevlar crosses would seem to have potential in an era without polys. I just wondered if anyone way back in the 90s used this combo or something similar.

You are right. Ashaway 16 has the least amount of friction when crossed with a poly, in my setup I can get incredible spin and it's got a braided surface. Even frayed it gets excellent spin, I think because it's so hard that the cross glides across it. The cross I use is Black Code 16.

I've tried the kevlar which does have the smooth outer coating(Forten?) but it gets destroyed immediately, offering very poor spin as the strings stick together.
I've also tried the Pro Blend and it gets poor spin as well, it just doesn't snap back, no matter what poly cross or tensions I've tried.

Finding a good combo is tough and doesn't always make sense; Ash with 4G 1.30 didn't have good spin either. Full bed of 4GS was average.

 

[Irvin]

...but back in the 90's no one really used poly...

There was this one guy (Gustavo Kuerten) who pioneered the use of poly back in the 90s. He attributed his success to his Luxilon strings. But it was the later 90s even though poly was around before that.

 

[The Dark Knight]

There was this one guy (Gustavo Kuerten) who pioneered the use of poly back in the 90s. He attributed his success to his Luxilon strings. But it was the later 90s even though poly was around before that.

right...i believe poly was even around in the 70's...i think the first company was polystar?

Kevlar never really had a chance.....Agassi used it but then poy came out and that was the end of kevlar.

In my opinion poly and kevlar play similar.....i like poly better for a week but after that its just really unreliable and playes completely different than when i first strung it. The pros dont have this issue because they restring so often.

I think for the club player Kevlar is the better choice assuming you dont have arm issues.

 

[Irvin]

Personally I like Kevlar but it does make the racket dead and reduces power more so than poly strings.

 

[McLovin]

Personally I like Kevlar but it does make the racket dead and reduces power more so than poly strings.

I used a thin Kevlar (19g) and gut crosses for 15 years. I tried the poly mains (TiMo) / gut crosses ~ 2003 and hated it, so I went back to my trusty Kevlar mains.

Then when I changed frames in '08 to the Fischer M-Comp 95, I learned that Federer had started swapping the gut crosses for mains. I gave it a try and haven't looked back since.

The thought of gut mains / Kevlar crosses is intriguing though. ALU Rough has a similar texture to Kevlar. If I can find my old Kevlar reel I may even string one up for fun.

 

[The Dark Knight]

I used a thin Kevlar (19g) and gut crosses for 15 years. I tried the poly mains (TiMo) / gut crosses ~ 2003 and hated it, so I went back to my trusty Kevlar mains.

Then when I changed frames in '08 to the Fischer M-Comp 95, I learned that Federer had started swapping the gut crosses for mains. I gave it a try and haven't looked back since.

The thought of gut mains / Kevlar crosses is intriguing though. ALU Rough has a similar texture to Kevlar. If I can find my old Kevlar reel I may even string one up for fun.

Your set up is the greatest!

Although I love kevlar I do like poly for the short term better.....after a couple of weeks poly in my opinion is crap.

I wouldn't change to kevlar in the crosses though Becaise the crosses don't do all that much ......at least I don't think so? I could be wrong on that.