Did Edberg have a higher peak than Becker at all 4 Majors?

[Galvermegs]

when Mac came back from his hiatus, he wasn't quite the same. I recall he did all that strength training, bulked up a bit and he seemed slower to me. His serve still had some punch, mind you, but the footspeed wasn't the same. Yet, he did get back up to #4 in the world and was still making W semis thru '92. His game really was well suited to the fast grass of the era.

Yes mac did cope somewhat ok with the changes in the game overall, maybe more than borg would have done. But did anyone really expect such a fall off after 84 and parts of 85?

 

[jrepac]

Yes mac did cope somewhat ok with the changes in the game overall, maybe more than borg would have done. But did anyone really expect such a fall off after 84 and parts of 85?

I certainly did not. Taking that sabbatical in '86/87 wasn't such a smart move.

 

[Galvermegs]

I certainly did not. Taking that sabbatical in '86/87 wasn't such a smart move.

Mac was very human despite his oncourt magic. He didnt just put everything into the game looking to dominate all months all years like his good buddy ivan.

Of course its only obvious with hindsight. Both mac and borg are notable for peaking in their early to mid 20s.

 

[jrepac]

Mac was very human despite his oncourt magic. He didnt just put everything into the game looking to dominate all months all years like his good buddy ivan.

Of course its only obvious with hindsight. Both mac and borg are notable for peaking in their early to mid 20s.

There's a question to start a new thread on...."Why did some GOATs peak and flame out while others went on for many years at/near top of the game?"

 

[Drob]

There's been a lot of discussion on this forum on whether Edberg or Becker is better and a lot of discussion on the main forum about which players have higher peak levels relative to other players. But I can't recall a comparison between Becker and Edberg regarding peak levels at the 4 Majors. I think the conventional wisdom might be that Becker takes the day, but my own review made me think Edberg has a good case for having a higher peak level at every Major. Here are my thoughts:

U.S. Open: Edberg's peak was clearly 1991 when he was never really in any trouble throughout the tournament, straight setted Lendl in the SF, and crushed Courier in the final (6-2, 6-4, 6-0). Peak Becker was 1989, where he was saved by a net cord against Rostagno in the second round, straight setted Krickstein in the SF, and beat Lendl, 7-6, 1-6, 6-3, 7-6 in the final. I think Edberg is comfortably ahead here with his dominant play in 1991 vs. 1989 Becker being a bit lucky to even make it past the second round and struggling a lot more against Lendl (albeit a better version of Lendl).​

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French Open: It feels like the 1989 SF that Edberg won in 5 sets really tells the tale here, with Edberg beating Becker in that battle. Boris's other SFs were in 1987, when he got smoked by Wilander in straight sets, and 1991, when Agassi beat him 6-1 in the fourth set. I think 1989 is the peak form for both, with Edberg's level just a little bit higher.​

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Australian Open: This one's a bit tougher to compare b/c Edberg's best results were on grass while Becker's best results were on Rebound Ace. That said, it's tough to top 1987 Edberg smoking Mecir in the QF (6-1, 6-4, 6-4) and beating the version of Cash who would go on to cruise to the Wimbledon title mere months later. Also, 1985 Edberg crushing two-time defending champion Wilander (who was really good on Kooyong grass), 6-4, 6-3, 6-3 was another strong showing. By way of contrast, Becker really struggled in both his AO title runs, being extended to 14-12 in the fifth set against Camporese in 1991 and needing two 5 set wins just to get to the third round in 1996. Overall, I'd give 1991 Becker the nod over 1996 Becker, with his 4 set win in the final against Lendl being more impressive than his 4 set win over Chang. If we're going by strict level, I might still rate 1990 Edberg at the AO (especially his SF win over Wilander) over any version of Becker on Rebound Ace, but that's complicated by the injury that Edberg carried into the final, causing his retirement. Overall, I'd still say Becker had a higher peak on Rebound Ace than Edberg, but I'd say that Edberg's peak level on Kooyong grass was higher than Becker's peak level on Rebound Ace, giving Edberg the nod.​

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Wimbledon: Clearly, this is the closest call, with Edberg's biggest claim being his 2-1 record over Becker in Wimbledon finals. Becker's best argument is that he straight setted Edberg in the 1989 final. But that final was preceded by Becker's tight 5 set SF against Lendl, with Edberg straight setting an arguably better version of Lendl in the SF the following year. Indeed, I might say that 1990 SF was Edberg's peak performance at Wimbledon and more impressive than Becker's own straight set win over Lendl in the 1986 final (given Lendl's better grass game in 1990).​

Summing up, I easily take peak Edberg over peak Becker at the U.S. Open, the 1989 French Open SF tells the tale there, Edberg on Kooyong grass > Becker on Rebound Ace, and I have Edberg's peak by the slimmest of margins over peak Becker at Wimbledon. What do others think?

we usually talk about five-year peaks.

Their five-year peaks coincided.

Becker 1988-92

Wimbledon; USO; AO; 3 additional Wimby Finals; 2 YEC; 10 M 1000 or equivalent; 26 titles; AND ATG Davis Cup achievements, spearheading two straight Cup Champions with some of the best play in history.


Edberg 1988-92

2 Wimbledon; 2 USO; 4 additional Slam finals; 1 YEC; 6 M 1000 or equivalent; 21 titles; disappointing Davis Cup performance

head-to-head: Becker 13-6; Edberg 3-1 at Slams; Becker 2-0 at Davis Cup.

 

[buscemi]

we usually talk about five-year peaks.

Their five-year peaks coincided.

Becker 1988-92

Wimbledon; USO; AO; 3 additional Wimby Finals; 2 YEC; 10 M 1000 or equivalent; 26 titles; AND ATG Davis Cup achievements, spearheading two straight Cup Champions with some of the best play in history.


Edberg 1988-92

2 Wimbledon; 2 USO; 4 additional Slam finals; 1 YEC; 6 M 1000 or equivalent; 21 titles; disappointing Davis Cup performance

head-to-head: Becker 13-6; Edberg 3-1 at Slams; Becker 2-0 at Davis Cup.

I don't think that time frame really changes anything. As you note, it still includes Edberg being 3-1 against Becker at Majors, including the 2 wins at Wimbledon and the win at the French Open. And it still includes Edberg's 1991 & 1992 U.S. Open titles (the former being Edberg's highest peak) vs. Becker's sole title he eked out in 1989.

The one thing it omits is Edberg's 1987 Australian Open title, with Edberg finishing world #2 in 1987 vs. #5 in 1988. I'd still say Edberg's level at the 1987 AO was higher than Becker's level at the 1991 AO, but it's a bit of apples vs. oranges due to the surface change.

 

[mental midget]

Definitely serve and forehand, Mac was better. He was a lot quicker than people give him credit for. Maybe he didn't look so fast vs. guys like Borg and Connors, but he could get to the net in a heartbeat. It was scary sometimes.

yeah mac almost certainly had a higher percentage of unreturnables...edberg's serve wasn't meant to keep it away from the returner so much as make an offensive return difficult.

on the fh's, with those grips neither had a really effective inside-out stroke as a point finisher...but then again, that shot is a relatively recent development. lendl had it, but i think it was the rise of the more western forehand (along with racket tech) that made that a consistent offensive weapon (although lendl had a pretty good one, as did pete, and they had similar fh mechanics.) i feel like courier was the first player to really make that a signature point ender.