Did Federer and Raonic swap coaches?

[BreakPoint]

The way Raonic has been serving and volleying like he's been doing it his whole life leads to believe that his new coach is really the one and only Stefan Edberg. No way is his new coach Carlos Moya, a guy who never left the baseline and doesn't know how to serve and volley.

So did Raonic and Federer cut a deal to swap coaches? Raonic now gets Edberg while Federer now gets Ljubicic? That must be what happened, right? Or else how did Raonic become a serve and volleyer overnight?

 

[tipsa...don'tlikehim!]

Moya > Ljubicic

 

[Minion]

Wouldn't be surprised, Raonic showed some pretty impressive hands at the net. He's becoming quite a versatile player.

 

[metsman]

yeah...right. Raonic sure looked impressive volleying back Stan's steady diet of floats. When Stan got it together and actually started hitting ball with some more bite and keeping it lower Raonic missed a number of volleys as he usually does.

Man people are so desperate for the "young generation" that they'll cling to anything

 

[wy2sl0]

yeah...right. Raonic sure looked impressive volleying back Stan's steady diet of floats. When Stan got it together and actually started hitting ball with some more bite and keeping it lower Raonic missed a number of volleys as he usually does.

Man people are so desperate for the "young generation" that they'll cling to anything

Wait sorry who won? Excuses.

 

[haqq777]

I was wondering the same thing about his net approaches. Then I read this: http://www.ausopen.com/en_AU/news/articles/2016-01-25/five_things_we_learned_on_day_8.html

Apparently Raonic had been working on his S&V during the time he was not 100% physically. It certainly paid off.

“When I had time injured and I wasn’t so caught up in playing a lot of matches, travelling from tournament to tournament, when I was sort of sitting there annoyed with the physical situation I was in, I was asking myself all the time ‘What can I do to get better?’ It [going more to the net] was something I definitely felt was necessary for me,”

 

[metsman]

Wait sorry who won? Excuses.

I don't give a crap who won...I'm telling it like I see it.

 

[wy2sl0]

I don't give a crap who won...I'm telling it like I see it.

Obviously you didn't "see it" though. He play a ton of tough volleys in key times and didn't choke.
All the top players miss volleys when the opponent has time to get a full topspin shot away.

 

[jm1980]

Stan's returns are quite floaty, which gives him ample opportunity to S&V.

I doubt he'll be able to employ this strategy with the same level of success against Murray

 

[BreakPoint]

yeah...right. Raonic sure looked impressive volleying back Stan's steady diet of floats. When Stan got it together and actually started hitting ball with some more bite and keeping it lower Raonic missed a number of volleys as he usually does.

Man people are so desperate for the "young generation" that they'll cling to anything

Um...before now, Raonic had only one game play - bomb a big serve and if the ball comes back, stand in his backhand corner and blast inside-out forehands all day long until his opponent cried "Uncle!". That's it. He had no other strategy nor capability. I used to think he was the most one-dimensional player on tour, even more so than Nadal, and that's saying a lot. Now he's become so much more versatile. Not only has he become an all-court player, but he's serving and volleying like it's going out of style (well, it did go out of style but perhaps Milos is bringing it back! ).

Oh, and are you telling me that Edberg never missed a low volley that was blasted at his feet? Do you know how hard Wawrinka hits the ball?

 

[BreakPoint]

I don't give a crap who won...I'm telling it like I see it.

Then you don't fully understand what you saw.

 

[BreakPoint]

Stan's returns are quite floaty, which gives him ample opportunity to S&V.

I doubt he'll be able to employ this strategy with the same level of success against Murray

Well, that's what happens when you bomb 140mph serves.

It always confounded me why players with massive serves like that didn't come in behind their serves.

 

[SoCalJay]

Sure Milos did miss a few volleys but his make % for the floatier shots was excellent and he also managed to handle quite a few of the harder hit or otherwise more difficult ones. Plus, and perhaps most importantly, he stuck with the gameplan even when his execution faltered a bit in the middle there. I was impressed and hope it's a sign of things to come for him.

 

[Bobby Jr]

The Raonic-Wawrinka match comprised 320 points. Raonic served 149 points and serve and volleyed about 15 times.

Hardly Edberg-like serve and volley numbers.

 

[jm1980]

The Raonic-Wawrinka match comprised 320 points. Raonic served 149 points and serve and volleyed about 15 times.

Hardly Edberg-like serve and volley numbers.

Raonic played 149 points played on serve. 36 of them ended in an ace, service winner, or DF, This give us a net of 113 returns in play against Milos

He certainly serve and volleyed more than 15 times considering he had 83 net approaches. If even 40 of those net approaches were S&V (it was probably more) that's more than 1/3 of the returns in play. That's a good amount of S&V points

 

[-snake-]

yeah...right. Raonic sure looked impressive volleying back Stan's steady diet of floats. When Stan got it together and actually started hitting ball with some more bite and keeping it lower Raonic missed a number of volleys as he usually does.

Man people are so desperate for the "young generation" that they'll cling to anything

This.

 

[BreakPoint]

The Raonic-Wawrinka match comprised 320 points. Raonic served 149 points and serve and volleyed about 15 times.

Hardly Edberg-like serve and volley numbers.

Thanks for acknowledging that you didn't see the match.

Raonic approached the net 83 times, and most of those were serve and volley. Oh, and there's no need to serve and volley when you hit an ace, of which he had 24.

http://www.ausopen.com/en_AU/scores/stats/day13/1406ms.html

 

[roger presley]

Well, that's what happens when you bomb 140mph serves.

It always confounded me why players with massive serves like that didn't come in behind their serves.

No one who is serving those kind of big serves usually don't rush to the net. Perhaps only Karlovic, but that's questionable.

 

[jm1980]

Thanks for acknowledging that you didn't see the match.

Raonic approached the net 83 times, and most of those were serve and volley. Oh, and there's no need to serve and volley when you hit an ace, of which he had 24.

http://www.ausopen.com/en_AU/scores/stats/day13/1406ms.html

There were also 6 DFs and 6 service winners.

Certainly not like the old days but it's still the most I have seen anyone other than Karlovic try this tactic

 

[BreakPoint]

Hardly Edberg-like serve and volley numbers.

Oh, and no one claimed he's Edberg. Just that maybe he's being coached by Edberg. Federer was also coached by Edberg, but did he serve and volley as much as Edberg did?

 

[Crisp]

Stan often does return with a chip against all servers, this usually isn't a good play against someone who is serve and volleying so Milos game plan was always going to work well against him. As for the serve volley, Ivan l spoke at the grand slam conference and said that they had spent time heavily with Milos on s&v he also acknowledged that his old coach was still working with Milos and would still be working on the s&v

 

[BreakPoint]

Raonic played 149 points played on serve. 30 of them ended in an ace, service winner, or DF, This give us a net of 119 returns in play against Milos

He certainly serve and volleyed more than 15 times considering he had 83 net approaches. If even 40 of those net approaches were S&V (it was probably more) that's about 1/3 of the returns in play. That's a good amount of S&V points

Actually, Raonic had 24 aces and 6 double-faults so that's already 30 not including service winners. He also had 6 service winners that were not aces. Thus, only 113 of his service points were in play, and he had 83 net approaches. Of course, not all of those net approaches were serve and volley but I'd say the great majority were. So perhaps 50 were serve and volley. But he had 101 first serves in, so if you take away the 24 aces and 6 service winners (assuming all the aces and service winners were off of first serves), that's only 71 points in which he had to hit the next shot. Assuming most of his serve and volley attempts were off of the first serve, that would give him a ratio of 50 out of 71 serve and volley points, which is a very high percentage.

 

[metsman]

Well, that's what happens when you bomb 140mph serves.

It always confounded me why players with massive serves like that didn't come in behind their serves.

first of all Raonic was not consistently serving 140....not even close. And second we aren't talking about Raonic missing volleys when returns were blasted at his feet, we are talking about he was volleying poorly on halfway decent BLOCKED returns that were below chest height. Any decent returner of first serve who will get their racquet on a lot of balls and do anything but just float back the return chest high middle of the court will have a good day against Raonic. Raonic is improved, and it's about time considering his age, but his serve isn't quite the monster it was in 2013-2014 and at the end of the day he's not a huge threat to wins slams like people here think he is after one win...not even in this weak era.

 

[BreakPoint]

No one who is serving those kind of big serves usually don't rush to the net. Perhaps only Karlovic, but that's questionable.

Could you please reword your sentence? I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

 

[beast of mallorca]

I don't give a crap who won...I'm telling it like I see it.

You're just butthurt. Take it like a man, Chichi

 

[metsman]

There were also 6 DFs and 6 service winners.

Certainly not like the old days but it's still the most I have seen anyone other than Karlovic try this tactic

does AO count net points if the player approaches but doesn't hit a volley? I know wimby doesn't.

 

[metsman]

Actually, Raonic had 24 aces and 6 double-faults so that's already 30 not including service winners. I'd say he probably had at least 35 service winners that were not aces. Thus, only 84 of his service points were in play, and he had 83 net approaches. Of course, not all of those net approaches were serve and volley but I'd say the great majority were. So perhaps 60 were serve and volley. 60 out of 84 is a very high ratio of S&V.

he had 6 service winners....

 

[BreakPoint]

first of all Raonic was not consistently serving 140....not even close. And second we aren't talking about Raonic missing volleys when returns were blasted at his feet, we are talking about he was volleying poorly on halfway decent BLOCKED returns that were below chest height. Any decent returner of first serve who will get their racquet on a lot of balls and do anything but just float back the return chest high middle of the court will have a good day against Raonic. Raonic is improved, and it's about time considering his age, but his serve isn't quite the monster it was in 2013-2014 and at the end of the day he's not a huge threat to wins slams like people here think he is after one win...not even in this weak era.

Nobody, not even Roddick, consistently hits 140mph serves. But Raonic has one of the biggest serves in tennis today. It's a shame he didn't start backing that up until now.

And not even Djokovic nor Murry can consistently blast returns off of Raonic's serves at his feet.

 

[metsman]

Nobody, not even Roddick, consistently hits 140mph serves. But Raonic has one of the biggest serves in tennis today. It's a shame he didn't start backing that up until now.

And not even Djokovic nor Murry can consistently blast returns off of Raonic's serves at his feet.

again i'm not even talking about hitting the return back to his feet...when wawrinka was even getting returns to his hips to his knees Raonic was struggling to stick the volley and STan had good looks at passes (if Raonic didn't miss the volley outright)

 

[Mainad]

It does seem a bit bizarre that he parted with Ljubicic, took up with a claycourt baseliner and then started rushing the net and hitting volleys!

Raonic is definitely growing as a player. I am impressed with his willingness to adapt his game and try different strategies.

 

[BreakPoint]

he had 6 service winners....

I stand corrected and edited my previous post.

 

[Bobby Jr]

Thanks for acknowledging that you didn't see the match.

Raonic approached the net 83 times, and most of those were serve and volley

By comparison to Edberg he is not a serve and volley bot. That was the comparison made and the one I addressed.

And thanks for proving yet again what a moron you are by implying aces should be lumped in with serve and volley stats.

 

[Vrad]

yeah...right. Raonic sure looked impressive volleying back Stan's steady diet of floats. When Stan got it together and actually started hitting ball with some more bite and keeping it lower Raonic missed a number of volleys as he usually does.

Man people are so desperate for the "young generation" that they'll cling to anything

I watched his match against Robredo, and commented about how much better he looked volleying before the match against Stan.

He's definitely improved his touch at the net, and his movement (and probably his decision making about when to come forward as well). These are real changes that are very evident when you watch his play compared to last year.

 

[BreakPoint]

Wrong. Most of them were not serve and volley points.

And thanks for proving yet again what a moron you are by implying aces should be lumped in with serve and volley stats.

We know you didn't see the match so please stop reminding us.

Yes, the majority of those 83 net approaches WERE serve and volley.

You said 15 S&V points. LOL Perhaps you should stay awake when you watch tennis?

Funny how you're calling me a "moron" when you couldn't even understand that we took aces (and DFs and service winners) OUT of service points NOT lumped them in. Why? Oh, because you don't serve and volley on an ace nor a double-fault nor a service winner. We already know you don't play tennis. No need to keep proving it to us everyday.

 

[Bobby Jr]

We know you didn't see the match so please stop reminding us.

Yes, the majority of those 83 net approaches WERE serve and volley.

Clown, stick to the forum you love crapping all over a few lines down in the sub-forums list. It's too early in the week for you to be on the glass pipe (again).

 

[BreakPoint]

Clown, stick to the forum you love crapping all over a few lines down in the sub-forums list. It's too early in the week for you to be on the glass pipe (again).

Thanks for letting us know that you don't understand stats.

Please explain to us how someone serves and volleys behind an ace, a double fault, or a service winner? I'm sure we'd all love to hear it.

Excluding aces and service winners, Raonic only put 71 first serves into play in which he could have served and volleyed. Yet, he had 83 net approaches. The majority of those net approaches were behind his serve. Thus, he had a very high percentage of serve and volley.

 

[BreakPoint]

By comparison to Edberg he is not a serve and volley bot. That was the comparison made and the one I addressed.

No one compared Raonic to Edberg as being a serve and volley bot, except you.

 

[I am the Greatest!]

It always confounded me why players with massive serves like that didn't come in behind their serves.

It's not their nature unfortunately. It's not the 80s or 90s anymore. Players nowadays doesn't have the confidence to approach the net even with big serves like that.

 

[jm1980]

Thanks for letting us know that you don't understand stats.

Please explain to us how someone serves and volleys behind an ace, a double fault, or a service winner? I'm sure we'd all love to hear it.

Excluding aces and service winners, Raonic only put 71 first serves into play in which he could have served and volleyed. Yet, he had 83 net approaches. The majority of those net approaches were behind his serve. Thus, he had a very high percentage of serve and volley.

Official stats claim he used the S&V 57 against Stan. I am not sure if this counts only returns in play

http://www.ausopen.com/en_AU/news/articles/2016-01-27/servevolleyng_returns_with_a_vengeance.html

 

[BreakPoint]

Official stats claim he used the S&V 57 against Stan. I am not sure if this counts only returns in play

http://www.ausopen.com/en_AU/news/articles/2016-01-27/servevolleyng_returns_with_a_vengeance.html

Yup...

"En route to the Australian Open quarterfinals for the second straight year, Milos Raonic has won more points at net than at the baseline, 141 to 138. Against Stan Wawrinka the Canadian channelled the game of his idol, Pete Sampras, serve-volleying 57 times in his maiden victory against the 2014 champion – according to the stat sheet, at least.

“I think it was probably more, at the end of it,” Raonic said. “I don't know if they count every time if the shot ends. Because for me, when I spoke with my team about it, I think I came in more than 80 times.”