Did Nole's forehand peak in late 2007 / Early 2008?

P

PETEhammer

Guest
no, that's just weaker competition making it look that way

prime fed does not get hammered in straights at AO as Nadal did to him in AO 14 or lose to frickin seppi in 4 sets
prime fed does not lose to gulbis in 5 sets at RG or get thrashed by Stan in straights without breaking him even once
prime fed does not return as badly as he did in Wim 14 final or hit as weakly off the ground (thanks to racquet change, I know) or play at a high level only for 2 sets (Wim 15 final)
prime fed does not nearly lose to Monfils in 4 sets at USO or get beaten in straights by Cilic. would certainly play better and not choke as badly as he did in USO 15 final (yes, USO 09 final which was the worst at his prime - was significantly better)

AO 04-10 Fed (minus 08) was way better than Fed at AO 17/18.
played well at Wim 17. would rate it higher than WIm 15 though not by much., but still lesser than Wim 12 QF-F, which was still post prime IMO (at best prime-ish)

Fed 11-12 was better than 14-15 and 17-18.
I would say this is more proof of stronger competition that brought out what happens with every ATG under such conditions: random losses. More off-days. Being made to look bad when you're actually playing well (W 2015 in particular).

I think you think Federer is only playing at his best when he wins every major he enters and loses only against GOATing Safin or Del Potro, or in RG finals to Nadal, which is imho a fairytale.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
I would say this is more proof of stronger competition that brought out what happens with every ATG under such conditions: random losses. More off-days. Being made to look bad when you're actually playing well (W 2015 in particular).

I think you think Federer is only playing at his best when he wins every major he enters and loses only against GOATing Safin or Del Potro, or in RG finals to Nadal, which is imho a fairytale.
Has nothing whatsoever to do with it.
Like I said fed in 11-12 was better than in 14-15 or 17-18.
and 11-12 wasn't prime fed either.

Wim 15 final - fed played well to stay with a with a very well playing Djokovic for 2 sets. Not after that. Djokovic didn't do anything particularly different in the 3rd set. Only 4th set was better. He still might have lost if he had continued to play well, but not as tamely as he did in the last 2 sets.
 
Last edited:

RS

G.O.A.T.
I would say this is more proof of stronger competition that brought out what happens with every ATG under such conditions: random losses. More off-days. Being made to look bad when you're actually playing well (W 2015 in particular).

I think you think Federer is only playing at his best when he wins every major he enters and loses only against GOATing Safin or Del Potro, or in RG finals to Nadal, which is imho a fairytale.
2005-2009 Federer on clay vs 2014-2015 Federer on grass and hc what is your pick?
 
P

PETEhammer

Guest
Longevity allows players to stay relevant for a longer period of time before the inevitable falling off of a cliff. It extends careers, not peaks.
That is a very official, handbook-esque sounding definition you've written there. Problem is, the handbook needs revision.
 

Oceans

Semi-Pro
His 2011 forehand is very unrefined compared to his one today. It's been a pleasure watching him gradually perfect his strokes over the years, especially the serve and forehand. (y)
 

Jonesy

Hall of Fame
His 2011 forehand is very unrefined compared to his one today. It's been a pleasure watching him gradually perfect his strokes over the years, especially the serve and forehand. (y)
Makes no sense why some people can accept Nole refined one aspect of his game, that is the serve, but not other aspect, that is the forehand, over the last years.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Makes no sense why some people can accept Nole refined one aspect of his game, that is the serve, but not other aspect, that is the forehand, over the last years.
because it isn't its best form , not even remotely close.
changing FH is one thing, making it the best its been at 33+ is ridiculous. hitting the FH is also associated with footwork/movement. The serve is a standalone shot.
djoko's relative lack of penetration with FH is seen quite clearly on clay and even on slower HC.

Name 5 other players who have had their best FH at 32+.
 

swordtennis

G.O.A.T.
I think I agree.
I have to say his forehand peak must be at least after Becker's coaching.
The thing that used to annoy me about it was it used to get loopy and really soft especially starting in 2012. He seems to have gotten rid of that.
Also he might have gotten rid of some of that odd form he had with it due to the elbow issues which might have had something to do with the elbow issues to begin with.
I love it now. Maybe less power but he is older now and he needs precision and consistency.
One of the greatest forehands in history.
Do not let TTW brain wash you!
 

ewiewp

Professional
The thing that used to annoy me about it was it used to get loopy and really soft especially starting in 2012. He seems to have gotten rid of that.
Also he might have gotten rid of some of that odd form he had with it due to the elbow issues which might have had something to do with the elbow issues to begin with.
I love it now. Maybe less power but he is older now and he needs precision and consistency.
One of the greatest forehands in history.
Do not let TTW brain wash you!
I agree.
After the elbow injury, he simplified his forehand(and serve) and yet improved it further.

Evolutions of both Djokovic and Nadal since 2011 after they reached #1 are amazing.
They pushed each other for a decade,
although Nadal has not answered Djokovic's latest evolution (and publicly stated he has no answer).

this is something both Novak and Nadal stand out over Federer who basically failed to evolve significantly since he became #1.
 

NoleIsBoat

Hall of Fame
I agree.
After the elbow injury, he simplified his forehand(and serve) and yet improved it further.

Evolutions of both Djokovic and Nadal since 2011 after they reached #1 are amazing.
They pushed each other for a decade,
although Nadal has not answered Djokovic's latest evolution (and publicly stated he has no answer).

this is something both Novak and Nadal stand out over Federer who basically failed to evolve significantly since he became #1.
I think fed evolved a bit in 2011-2012 then a LOT in 2014-2015..

Should have done it way earlier, but who can blame him when his main comp was one dimensional Roddick, Bagdhatis, Grosjean and Bjorkman? He probably thought the fairytale would last until 09/10 and he’d be even more out of sight...
 

swordtennis

G.O.A.T.
I agree.
After the elbow injury, he simplified his forehand(and serve) and yet improved it further.

Evolutions of both Djokovic and Nadal since 2011 after they reached #1 are amazing.
They pushed each other for a decade,
although Nadal has not answered Djokovic's latest evolution (and publicly stated he has no answer).

this is something both Novak and Nadal stand out over Federer who basically failed to evolve significantly since he became #1.
I will argue Fed did evolve. According to his own words.
Like Andy Roddick stated on the tennis channel GOAT debate May 2020.
When he played Novak the last time and it was on grass.
The game is on another level these players are not what i have been used to playing.
Not exact words but it is on youtube to find exact words.
The level went up and Fed did amazing to improve and compete.
 

Blahovic

Rookie
I think Djokovic's forehand is better than ever on a technical level now, in all honestly. He doesn't move as well laterally to his forehand side, but he executed incredibly well at AO 2021 in the SF/F.

But in terms of execution - just not missing while still being able to dictate points with the shot - you can't overlook 2011 and 2015/16.
 

ewiewp

Professional
I will argue Fed did evolve. According to his own words.
Like Andy Roddick stated on the tennis channel GOAT debate May 2020.
When he played Novak the last time and it was on grass.
The game is on another level these players are not what i have been used to playing.
Not exact words but it is on youtube to find exact words.
The level went up and Fed did amazing to improve and compete.
Yes, Federer did evolve and improved.

What I meant was when Federer was at the top. When he started to face Nadal and Djokovic challenge.

Maybe 2009-2016. He tried to return more aggressively and incorporate more net game and so on. Edberge and Anaxonne. I don't think it was successful. He also ignored world class coaches recommendation up until 2010 or 2011? He was overly confident basically.

It was finally with Lubjicic 2017 or so. With a bit more potent backhand and tad more agressive return game.
 

HailDjokovic

Semi-Pro

On a technical level, it's as perfect as it's ever been. He gets great extension for a bent forehand (might as well be straight). He definitely hit it faster and more flat in his 2007-2008 days but Djokovic's forehand has always has been faster than the tour average every year.

The main improvement from then to now is his ability to keep it deep and push his opponents back. And of course, his greatest strength off that wing is the ability to redirect the ball
 

Start da Game

Hall of Fame
Title is pretty much self-explanatory. I think in 2011 it was really great at times, but I would still peak that period, but post-2011 was it ever as good as it was back then?
2011 was the peak.........it became such a dangerous shot........the scariest part was he was barely missing off that wing and was hitting it with such measured aggression.........he dominated 2011 simply because of that one shot along with his revitalized movement and stamina.........
 
Top