Did Novak waste chance at GOAT?

#1
Novak is at 14 slams now which is great but imo he wasted the chance of becoming GOAT. Before 2011 fedal were better than him but since 2012 they were on the way down and Novak won only one slam 12-14 Before he was super dominant 2015. In that time he lost slams against guys like Murray and Stan which he should have prevented.


15-16 he was great again but between wimby 16 and FO 18 he again did nothing. Part of it was injury but he then also lost focus and had some private issues.

With more focus he could have 3-4 more slams now which also would mean fedal would have less.

Now of course you can do what if with anyone but I feel that fedal maximized their talent more, they also missed some but with them it was injury or illness and not a lack of focus and motivation.

I mean had Novak won one more slam 12-14 each year and maybe the 17 and 18 AO he would be at 18 slams now, Nadal maybe at 15 and fed at 17. That would have made Novak the GOAT.

Now of course we could do what if with fedal too. Mono cost fed the first half of 08 and injuries cost Nadal several slams but they could not have avoided that while I feel for Novak it was very avoidable.

Of course this is not an argument for his case. Staying focussed is part of being great and it was his own fault which why fed is rightfully the goat
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
#2
Novak is at 14 slams now which is great but imo he wasted the chance of becoming GOAT. Before 2011 fedal were better than him but since 2012 they were on the way down and Novak won only one slam 12-14 Before he was super dominant 2015. In that time he lost slams against guys like Murray and Stan which he should have prevented.
Maybe he should have prevented it but he didn't because he couldn't.
 
#7
But most of this was against really good players (mostly Novak and nadal). Sure he could have won more too but he didn't lose many "must win" chances.
Fed's margin against these bigger players in these matches were much narrower than Joe's losses against Stan and Murray

I cannot think of more than a major or so where Novak was close to winning but ended up losing (FO 13)
 
#8
Fed's margin against these bigger players in these matches were much narrower than Joe's losses against Stan and Murray

I cannot think of more than a major or so where Novak was close to winning but ended up losing (FO 13)
USO 2012 and USO 2016. I think Wawrinka won only one more point than Djokovic at the USO final
 
#10
USO 2012 and USO 2016. I think Wawrinka won only one more point than Djokovic at the USO final
He had a complete cakewalk to finals. If you read his latest interview after Wimbledon, he said he was mentally spent and wasn't even able to fight by the 4th set of USopen 2016 final. understandable, but he has only himself to blame for lack of motivation. I'm glad where he is now TBH.
 
#11
He had a complete cakewalk to finals. If you read his latest interview after Wimbledon, he said he was mentally spent and wasn't even able to fight by the 4th set of USopen 2016 final. understandable, but he has only himself to blame for lack of motivation. I'm glad where he is now TBH.
Yeah, but the match was still winnable once he got there

It was like the Universe's way of balancing out the tough draws he's had over the years in New York, and he wasted the chance
 
#12
Wasn't USO '16 final the one where Djoker battled an ingrown toenail or something?

Took the first, but the wheels fell off after that. Waxed in four sets by good ol' Stan.
 
#21
Fed missed a OH put away in set 5 that would have given him the chance to go up a break. He was riding all the momentum coming back from 2-5 down in the 4th and Novak was fighting for life. Fed lost the service game promptly after that.
The only reason it went to a fifth set was because Novak choked a 5-2 lead in the fourth
 

OhYes

Hall of Fame
#22
Novak kind of wasted time from 2008 - 2011, but let us not forget he had breathing problems and couldn't handle that situation very well. He was 1 Slam wonder if you remember bumped topic.
Everything that happened from late 2010 onwards, was just blessing. Dr. Cetojevic gave him different diet which somehow provided confidence too with physical endurance.
Somewhere in between deaths of his grandfather and his first coach 2012-2013, he had emotional rollercoaster . Didn't cope with situation very well, but managed to perserve stable game overall.
Could he achieve more ? Yes, but so could Nadal if he was injury free or Fed if knew how to handle his own demons.
I say he is in great spot, he has resume of potential goat, have surpassed Sampras his idol, has all Masters, holding all Slams at once which nobody did in open era. So even if he is stuck in chasing ultimate prize, he has done already enough things that even Goat can wish for.
Everything that will happen from now on is just one big cherry on top of fantastic career.
 
#27
Multiple chances for the slam record for sure. No such thing as GOAT. Could you imagine Laver had as many cracks at the slams as the Big3 have had? He had 11 and didn't even play the slams in his prime.

Nole blew 3-4 slams he should have won. If he was on 17-18 right now, Fed's slam record is already dusted
 
#32
Yes. He should’ve really completely dominated that whole 2011-2016 period with multi year winning slams like Fed did in 2004-2009 (minus 2008 because mono)

But he’s not as good as Fed which is why he lost to Murray, Wawrinka, Nishikori, Querrey etc.
 
#37
Yes. He should’ve really completely dominated that whole 2011-2016 period with multi year winning slams like Fed did in 2004-2009 (minus 2008 because mono)

But he’s not as good as Fed which is why he lost to Murray, Wawrinka, Nishikori, Querrey etc.
Are you saying Djokovic should've only lost to Federer and Nadal between 2011-16 KR?
 
#40
Are you saying Djokovic should've only lost to Federer and Nadal between 2011-16 KR?
No but he lost too many against lesser players.

2012 USO: shouldn’t be losing to Murray.
2013 Wimbledon: fair enough. Grassray matches well there vs Nole
2014 AO: fair enough. He should’ve probably lost 2013 AO match so no shame in losing 1 match to a player like Wawrinka (like Fed losing to Safin, Del Potro)
2014 USO: Nishikori? Really bad loss. Equivalent would be 2007 Fed losing at USO to someone like davydenko
2016 Wimbledon: poor poor loss from a guy who showed unreal form the year bedore
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
#41
I believe that Djokovic is already the GOAT. My argumentation is clear; the only player to do 9+4 plus Nole Slam. When Federer or Nadal do 9 plus holding all 4 GS simultaneously, I will be happy to say that the GOAT is who ever is 9+4 plus holding 4 GS simultaneously.

"Mr Federer, the oldest of the group, began piling up Hall-of-Fame credentials against a more pedestrian field while the others (ie. Nadal and Djokovic) were playing junior tournaments." From The Economist 4 days ago. Narrative is changing.

https://www.economist.com/game-theory/2018/09/11/a-fit-novak-djokovic-could-dominate-tenniss-future
 
#42
I believe that Djokovic is already the GOAT. My argumentation is clear; the only player to do 9+4 plus Nole Slam. When Federer or Nadal do 9 plus holding all 4 GS simultaneously, I will be happy to say that the GOAT is who ever is 9+4 plus holding 4 GS simultaneously.

"Mr Federer, the oldest of the group, began piling up Hall-of-Fame credentials against a more pedestrian field while the others (ie. Nadal and Djokovic) were playing junior tournaments." From The Economist 4 days ago. Narrative is changing.

https://www.economist.com/game-theory/2018/09/11/a-fit-novak-djokovic-could-dominate-tenniss-future
Author seems an expert on giving weightage for various slams and periods

Solid math teaching at Belgrade
 
D

Deleted member 757377

Guest
#43
I'm totally fine with what he achieved in the strong era.

The improvement Djokovic did to win in the strong era will allow him to win in his last years on tour as well.
 
#46
Fed missed a OH put away in set 5 that would have given him the chance to go up a break. He was riding all the momentum coming back from 2-5 down in the 4th and Novak was fighting for life. Fed lost the service game promptly after that.
That OH put away was not even a break point.. how was he winning that match just with OH ?point
 
#48
given the ridiculous deference given to both Federer and Nadal, I'm not sure Novak could ever do enough to be considered the greatest of all time at this point, but I think his window truly closed in that awful period from 2016-2018 (from Wimbledon 2016-French 2018). Out of the 8 Slams contested, Novak came away with 0 titles, and more importantly, his two chief rivals won 6 of them. Novak even just treading water during that period means he's in serious contention for the men's Slam record right now and probably ends up ahead of Federer early next year. Instead he finds himself still needing to win nearly 2 full years worth of Slams to get there and with Senor Crotchgrabber still racking up French Opens.
 
#49
His biggest misses are

USO 2012
RG 2013
USO 2014

and possibly USO 2013

he could have been on 17-18 slams. But then Nadal and Federer have also missed chances
 
#50
Djokovic should have won USO12&14. Also as a GOAT candidate, he broke out a little late at 23 years old. He should have been diagnosed with gluten allergy much earlier so he could win two extra slams in 2009/2010.
 
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