Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by SerbWhoLovesDelPo, Oct 22, 2009.
Did Safin ever lose a match when playing his best tennis? Which match was it?
This week? This year? His whole career?
Strange question imo...:-?
In his career, of course.
Which match was it? I would really like to know.
And let's forget about grass because it's his worst surface. So, just clay and HC.
Tough to say. Was Federer playing at 100% when he lost to Safin in AO 05?
Was Safin playing at 100% in that match?
If so, I think he would be extremely tough to beat.
Those who said yes, please tell me which matches were those, so I can download them from somewhere and watch them.
Safin was in the form of his life towards the end of 04, beginning of 05. He lost to Federer and Roddick in close matches at TMC 04. The Federer match was the one that involved a tiebreak that went to 20-18.
oh, yeah, forgot about those TMCs. ty
TMC 2004 from Houston vs Federer
Theres no such thing like 100% imo, only ups and downs. (and of course match ups between players)
the Safin-Sampras USO final. You don't beat Sampras in a slam final playing so-so tennis.
Safin has never even lost a point when playing his best. He just let's the other guys win (a lot of) points because he can't be bothered.
As someone pointed out already, TMC 2004 matches against fed and roddick. Add his hamburg match vs guga in 2000 that went to the 5th set tie-break ...
2001 USO semifinal v. Sampras
Was he playing his best in that match?
This kind of discussion doesn't lead anywhere.
it leads the OP where he wants to be
Actually he has many times. 2004 at the year end Masters he played his best both in the semis with Federer and the RR with Roddick and lost both in tight 2 sets. He also played his best in the 2004 Bangkok semis with Roddick and lost in a 3rd set tiebreak. Miami quarters in 2002 he played his best and still lost to Hewitt. The semis of Monte Carlo in 2004 was one of his best clay matches ever and still lost to Coria. Halle final of 2005 was definitely his best grass court match ever and still lost to Federer. Heck the Hamburg final in 2002 I am sure if he did anything wrong, and was still destroyed by a pre prime Federer. This Safin myth is way over the top. Safin is very beatable.
The 2005 Australian Open semis was the best match Safin has ever played, or 2nd best after the U.S Open final vs Pete. Roger played very well but it was probably his 200th best match ever or something. Safin still was a point from losing in 4 sets.
I was there for the tiebreak. It was a great match.
It is funny to think Safin might have been playing his best in all 4 of his matches vs Roddick in 2004. People who saw those matches (myself included) concede he was in great form in all 4. Yet he won one in 5 tough sets and lost the other 3, 2 of those 3 in straight sets. That should put this argument to rest for good. Even Roddick can beat Safin regularly at his best, so the likes of Federer, Nadal, and others sure as heck could even if Safin did happen to play his best more often vs them.
Many players don't ever lose when they're playing their best... because if they're playing their best, that means their opponent is failing to prevent them from playing well. Remember, half of tennis isn't just playing well, it's getting into your opponent's head and making them play poorly... and Safin is quite susceptible to that.
I think Fed was 90% in that match. He played really well but seemed tentative in a lot of his shots. It when your shots look good but aren't as effective as usual. It has happened to me before expect I am 1/1,000,000 of a pro.
Safin is the most overrated player on these boards. And not just here - lots of folks seem to love him "for what he could have done" (but apparently failed to do).
Hmm, I only watched two (AO and IW). He was great in Melbourne but I wasn't so impressed with him in Indian Wells.
I agree with you, the 100% thing is total BS. That goes for everyone including Nadal.
Of course he did,
Everyone will lose, when playing at best or not
Fair enough. What about Bangkok and the TMC though. He played about as well as he could and still lost to Roddick in both, though I think all 5 sets were tiebreakers (with Roddick winning 4 of the 5). Australian Open he was playing his best tennis and it still took 5 sets to beat Roddick who wasnt playing his best that day, and then 5 sets to beat a 34 year old Agassi. My main point is his best is far from unbeatable. He is a great player who can beat anyone at his best, but is not nearly unbeatable at his best like Federer or Nadal on clay.
The 3 people who voted "no" are complete idiots btw.
LOL, what a ******* spin. Somehow Federer who had godly numbers and was winning the whole way wasn't playing well. OK. Let's just ignore the fact that Federer CRUSHED Agassi in the previous round without even breaking a sweat.
you know what fed did to del potro this year's AO too and what happened in the 5th set vs nadal?
would you say fed play his best in that game overall?
I didnt say that he wasnt playing well. I said he very often plays that well or better. It certainly wasnt the best or second best match of his career like it was Safin. Yet Safin still had to save a match point to avoid losing in 4 sets, and actually had the worse stats for the match- fewer winners, same # of unforced errors, and fewer points won. Federer always beat old Agassi and crushed him in about half of their matches (atleast a couple worse than their) so what is your point. That wasnt a special achievement for him, it was common, it was Hewitt, Safin, and Roddick who struggled to beat an old Agassi constantly. You are the same one who thinks Federer doesnt own Del Potro, ROTFL!
What? And where do I wanna be?
What a righteous idiot..
Every time that Safin has lost he was playing the best he could play that day.
You would be an absolute idiot to think Federer wasn't playing close to his best tennis during that match. You are also an absolute idiot if you think that Federer's lack of godly shots had nothing to do with Safin hitting Federer's 90 mph balls back at him for 100+ mph. Let's just ignore Federer's insane record that year, his insane stats that match, etc. etc. Oh yeah. Let me remind you that Agassi at the AO even in his elder years was insanely tough to beat. It took an onfire Safin who just beat Roddick in 2004, 5 sets to take Agassi out. Federer did it in 3 easy sets the next year. Yet somehow Federer's not playing well. ROFL.
I'm sorry, I have nothing left to say to you. Federer's level at the AO 2005 would have won the USO 2009, Wimbledon 2008, and the AO 2009. That's how good it was. That just speaks loudly about how talented Safin is, and how he flushed it down the toilet for vodka and hot women (which to be fair isn't that bad of a trade).
Irrelevant to the discussion about whether or not Federer owns Del Potro. Trying to discredit a poster when he has totally owned you is quite funny, as it shows how desperate you are.
If you want to prove me wrong, then put together a list of 200 matches where Federer played better than he did against an onfire Marat Safin.
Yeah, you could basically say this about any top ranking player.
Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, have never lost this year while playing their best. Because you could easily argue that the matches they lost - they were all not playing their best.
Word to all that.
Minor quibbles about stats aside, I tried making a 30-minute highlight reel lately of the match and, if you include the replays, a half-hour just isn't enough. If you think about it, some matches last only 30-45 minutes. The shotmaking and the rallies were insane and both played incredibly well. When that happens, it's all a matter of execution. Safin executed better at the handful of points that basically won him the match.
That is all.
But Federer was very close to (and it's arguable that he was) playing his best.
And yep, the match Fed played against Agassi (who was still very tough to beat) in the QF, was also one of the best matches he ever played. He absolutely crushed Andre.
Federer fans will do everything in their power to descredit Safin's win over him in the 2005 SF. Blisters, not playing as well as he could, etc.
ROTFL at the 10 people who voted NO. Cmon people Safin was great, heck if he was more focused on tennis he would have alot more than 2 slams, but he isnt some god. I dont know if any people has never lost playing their best but if any hasnt that would be say Laver or Sampras, sure as heck wouldnt be Safin.
Safin is one of the most overrated players in tennis history. NamRanger's literal Safin jerkoff rants on this very thread are just yet another testement to his many crazy fans. Thank goodness he is retiring.
Safin was on a great run when Fed beat him in the 04 AO finals. Safin had just beaten Roddick and Agassi in incredible matches.
Safin was fatigued for that match and definitely not at his best. He probably still would have lost anyway even if he had though, as Federer at his best beats Safin at his best 9 times out of 10 probably (even if the 05 AO was an aberration to that). Safin is a great player but overall he isnt a particularly tough matchup for Federer, in addition to being the inferior player. He was getting destroyed by even pre-prime Federer in 2002. So he has to play absolutely out of his mind like the 05 AO to even have a chance, and even then it might not be enough, and once in awhile like that day it might be but not very often. I am not a fan of either Federer or Safin. However Safin's over the top fans are more annoying than the worst of the *******s which is saying something.
The fact Safin even has 10 votes in this poll is an utter crime.
That just shows what a ****** you are. Federer played one of his greatest matches ever in the 2008 Wimbledon final. Way better than the 2005 Australian Open semis even though he also played very well in that match. If you doubt that then any a simple question, will a book ever be written about the 2005 Australian Open semifinal as good as it was? The answer of course is hell NO. Nadal is just the worst matchup ever for Federer, and is a much greater player than your man crush Safin also. Nadal is the only player since Sampras who could have beaten Federer that day. Even a top form Safin would have been crushed that day.
I liked Safin but...
To those who compare him with Rodge, if you can be at 100% only for few seasons out of a 10 year career, then you should only get honorable mention and not much more.
Some of you guys talk like being at 100% is something given to a player by supernatural powers. It takes dedication, focus and lots of practice:
Don't even go there guys.
Definitely. Safin is incredibly overrated. People escalate this guy to the likes of Agassi, Nadal, Becker, Federer, Sampras etc when he isnt even close.
It was actually a terrible trade off. His of court charmisa which so many Safin fans are proud of was so lame and Funny. "I am Marat Safin, I play my best tennis once an year, I am no big shot in tennis anymore but I will still act like a rockstar" LOL
Are you joking? The Vintage Federer wouldn't have had such a slow start in that 2008 Wimbledon Match, in fact, he would have won in 4 sets if he was at is 2005-2006 level. Nadal is no match for a Vintage Federer on grass.
Exactly. He gets more credit for playing his best once a year than others have doing it all the time. Also winning only like 2 big matches his whole career (U.S Open final with Sampras and Aussie semis with Federer) is somehow mythical prove he would beat everyone at his best according to the Safin addicts. It is a joke. This poll and thread are a complete joke.
Yes the 2008 Wimbledon final was one of the best matches of Federer's career. Even he said so himself. It still wasnt enough since Nadal is both a tennis legend (something Safin will never be) and the worst matchup stylewise for Federer probably in tennis history. You say his 2006 level, yet Federer struggled to win in 4 sets vs a baby Nadal who was nowhere near his 2008 level, which would have been 5 sets if Nadal didnt choke serving for the 2nd set. So where is the logic there. 2006 Federer would win in 4 sets when he won in 4 sets as it was vs a baby Nadal in like his 4th tournament ever on grass, LOL!
This poll only somewhat makes sense if we're talking about HC,on clay and grass there are a lot of players that can beat Safin at his best.On HC yeah I think Safin is extremely hard to beat at his best,I think Fed's level at 2005 AO was very high and it was a very impressive feat for Safin to beat Fed in that form,that semi IMO was one of the best matches Fed played that he lost(along with 2006 Rome final and 2008 Wimbledon final).
Talent-wise, he's on their level.
But when it's all said and done, he doesn't have the record or numbers to live up to his potential.
There is a huge difference from being hard to beat at your best on a certain surface and having never lost a match at your best on that surface. The idea that Safin has never played his best on hard courts and lost is a huge fallacy. As talented as he is, he is not the male Serena Williams (and even she has probably lost some matches on hard courts playing her best). Nearly everyone was able to list multiple matches he played his best even on hard courts and still lost. It wasnt that much of a challenge to do in fact.
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