Did Sinner win the match or did Djokovic lose it?

DSH said:
Federer remains the oldest tennis player to win a Major tournament in the Open era with 128 participants.
Djokovic in this edition of the 2024 Australian Open had the opportunity to overcome it but age weighs heavily as these athletes approach 40s.
8-B
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There is only one Roger Federer
 
Krish0608 said:
Sinner's not the same player. Last year, he lost to Tsitsipas and Altmaier in slams as well. It's very very obvious that he has hit another level since the indoor season last year. Won 3 out of the last 4 matches against Novak now. He's a different beast now. With respect to Novak beating Crampcaraz at RG, there couldn't have been a more luckier break for Novak.
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We agree to disagree, Novak has beaten excellent versions of them as recently as World tour finals, that too back to back
 
weakera said:
What was the more necessary element of the match outcome, the elevation of Sinner's game or the struggles of Djokovic?

I see a lot of well deserved congratulations for Sinner but it sounds like he was barely facing an opponent in the first two sets.

Would he have overcome a well-playing Djokovic today?
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Unfortunately my alarm was set for 4pm instead of 4am and I ended waking up @ 9 am. So I can't say anything concrete before watching the entire match's replay.
 
Novak looked to come out flat.
Sinner was absolutely marvelous out the gates.

But part of the reason Novak came out flat was he was struggling with timing on the torque sinner applied to his heavy ground strokes.

He wasn’t hitting as flat yet they still game in pretty heavy and novak wasn’t accustomed to it.

Sinners court coverage was just fantastic as well. He was just at every ball perfectly timed ripping it through the court. It was like any sort of offense Novak seemed to start generating- sinner was able to counter with ease.
Passed the eye test to just clear as day the better player today.
 
Krish0608 said:
Sinner's not the same player. Last year, he lost to Tsitsipas and Altmaier in slams as well. It's very very obvious that he has hit another level since the indoor season last year. Won 3 out of the last 4 matches against Novak now. He's a different beast now. With respect to Novak beating Crampcaraz at RG, there couldn't have been a more luckier break for Novak.
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Agree
 
Bartelby said:
Novak couldn't take the "torque". What does that even mean? Nadal does torque, and Novak beats him.
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Bartelby said:
Novak couldn't take the "torque". What does that even mean? Nadal does torque, and Novak beats him.
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Yep. Probably bc sinners ball is mostly flat. Hitting at the same pace heavy top spin.
He was pushing Novak around and his timing on sinners ground strokes was so bad early before getting back into it in the 3rd.

What other explanation do you have? Bc sinner was dealing and he was just pushing Novak back the entire match
 
Phoenix* said:
But spanked Fedal. Too strong era I guess.
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Sissypas is super talented. He’s mentally unstable. If dialed in he’s a threat. Doesn’t seem it right now. Needs to fire his coach (father). They adjusted his serve form. There were other things needing adjust. Not his serve.
 
Novak has to lose one day I guess. At 37 and already established as a GOAT he finished the the game called tennis several times. Why is he still playing at such an old age is because probably he still feels good. There's some record left to beat here and there too. But he trains much less nowadays. So losses are part of life especially when a good rising player comes such as Sinner. It is good that Sinner beat Novak because Novak has to be dethroned on the court by a good young player. Hope Sinner wins AO and his first GS so we could enjoy rise of Sinner in the forthcoming years and many great new rivalries. Life goes on after Novak.
 
weakera said:
What was the more necessary element of the match outcome, the elevation of Sinner's game or the struggles of Djokovic?

I see a lot of well deserved congratulations for Sinner but it sounds like he was barely facing an opponent in the first two sets.

Would he have overcome a well-playing Djokovic today?
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Djokovic was ill. Check his serve speeds. They were well down and his groundies were way off. Id like to know whose idea it was to put him on the day session v fritz in that heat? Did he request it? Or was he forced to play the day session?
I like sinner but imstill remain unconvinced by him mentally and beating a sub par clearly srruggling novak i dont think tells us much.
 
messiahrobins said:
Djokovic was ill. Check his serve speeds. They were well down and his groundies were way off. Id like to know whose idea it was to put him on the day session v fritz in that heat? Did he request it? Or was he forced to play the day session?
I like sinner but imstill remain unconvinced by him mentally and beating a sub par clearly srruggling novak i dont think tells us much.
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The same guy was 2-0 up against Djokovic at W.

The same guy defeated Djokovic at ATP Finals in the round robin matches. He could've tanked his match against Rune to edge Djokovic out.

These same guy defeated him in Davis cup winning for his country.


You were saying?
 
messiahrobins said:
Djokovic was ill. Check his serve speeds. They were well down and his groundies were way off. Id like to know whose idea it was to put him on the day session v fritz in that heat? Did he request it? Or was he forced to play the day session?
I like sinner but imstill remain unconvinced by him mentally and beating a sub par clearly srruggling novak i dont think tells us much.
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So sad, imagine that, forced to actually play a day session :cry:
 
tex123 said:
The same guy was 2-0 up against Djokovic at W.

The same guy defeated Djokovic at ATP Finals in the round robin matches. He could've tanked his match against Rune to edge Djokovic out.

These same guy defeated him in Davis cup winning for his country.


You were saying?
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In italy those two wins were. That obviously helped
 
Indigo said:
Novak has to lose one day I guess. At 37 and already established as a GOAT he finished the the game called tennis several times. Why is he still playing at such an old age is because probably he still feels good. There's some record left to beat here and there too. But he trains much less nowadays. So losses are part of life especially when a good rising player comes such as Sinner. It is good that Sinner beat Novak because Novak has to be dethroned on the court by a good young player. Hope Sinner wins AO and his first GS so we could enjoy rise of Sinner in the forthcoming years and many great new rivalries. Life goes on after Novak.
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Yeah it’s coming.
Sinner putting together the Arsenal a lot of ppl knew he had us probably more dangerous than Carlos long term.
 
Haha, wrong section, sorry :D
daniil-medvedev-fanning-vpsz0gwem1gmnlab.gif
 
I’ll eat crow. Thought Novak would do it in 4 or possible 3.

Knew Sinner had the game to win, but wasn’t going to bet against the King of the AO
 
Kralingen said:
If I had to be perfectly honest, I’d lean more towards the latter. Djokovic was god awful the first two sets, I mean really terrible, could barely keep a ball in play, had no composure, couldn’t find a return to save his life. The UE count was in the 50s.

Sinner was very good and I’m overjoyed that he won, but the story for me will be how bad Djokovic was. That’s the more surprising of the two performances, for sure. That said, I think Sinner played at a level that would’ve been very difficult for Djokovic to handle in any form.
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While I agree that Djoko was pretty bad the first two sets, a lot of that had to do with the pressure he was feeling immediately when facing Sinner’s game. He knew going into this match that he would have to have his best stuff to win, and when he knew that he wasn’t likely to bring it, he imploded under the pressure of a younger, currently better player.

Sinner has only been broken twice this entire tournament and really hasn’t even faced that many pressure games aside from a few against Rublev and Khachanov, mostly when he was in a winning position anyway.

Throughout tennis history, this has happened to all older greats and finally happened to Djoko
 
Sinner dismantled an in form Djo. Plain and simple. He started quick, which definitely broke down Djo's mental focus and confidence. And then never let up stopping on the gas and Djo was most certainly not up to the task.
 
ChaelAZ said:
Sinner dismantled an in form Djo. Plain and simple. He started quick, which definitely broke down Djo's mental focus and confidence. And then never let up stopping on the gas and Djo was most certainly not up to the task.
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I wouldn’t say Novak was in form. But sinner was in his A game.
In the past Novak was able to beat these guys while not being in form. Sinner has been dealing since October.
 
ADuck said:
I think it was more so Djokovic playing badly because Sinner made it look easy. He wasn't necessarily playing amazing but tactically he played perfectly.

He was mostly just hitting up the middle, staying patient, using his wheels to extend the points and not giving Djokovic any angles to work with, which is the exact opposite of what he tried to do at Wimbledon last year where he pulled the trigger on everything.
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We do this a lot--we inadvertently take credit from the winners when they beat a better player, focusing on what Djokodal did wrong rather than what the winner did right.

There is a blueprint to beating Djokodal and it is to outhit them but don't miss. We've seen it work and it is in fact the only way that does work. Sinner followed the blueprint and won. His shots were landing at Novak's feet.
 
weakera said:
Hard to say, I was wrong about Alcaraz and I was wrong about Djokovic's level maintaining from previous years. So I am 0-2. With that being said, I would say Zverev will win if he serves really well. Medvedev actually lost in total points to Hurkacz and lost by a lot in receiving points. Zverev is better and he is less likely to choke against a rival from his gen than a big three. And then I would say Sinner is in the drivers seat in the Final no matter who the opponent is.
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Hehe :P
 
Krish0608 said:
Sinner's not the same player. Last year, he lost to Tsitsipas and Altmaier in slams as well. It's very very obvious that he has hit another level since the indoor season last year. Won 3 out of the last 4 matches against Novak now. He's a different beast now. With respect to Novak beating Crampcaraz at RG, there couldn't have been a more luckier break for Novak.
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Maybe he isn't the same player he was 9 months ago. He's beaten Med 3 straight times.
 
Both.

There is no doubt Sinner played very well and kept pressing Novak throughout . However equally clear that Novak was definitely off form right from the start of match. Several commentators and Janik himself noticed it.

He was just so mentally and physically flat right from opening game. Just wat h first 4 to 5 games of match. Novak's movement is way way off, he is late getting to ball and off balance, also just really sluggish.

In 1st set when it was o ly 3-1 to Janik, Sinner plays an attempted drop shot which looked good but literally just caught too of tape and fell back on his own side, but even though it Initially looked good Novak made absolutely no attempt to start running towards ball.

This is the guy who normally chases drop shots and gets them back till the cows come home, but he didn't even attempt to start moving towards ball. The commentators I was watching noted it and said at time it seemed very strange to him that Novak hadn't made an attempt to move towards the ball.

Also oval usually feeds off his mistakes and shouts constantly at himself and his
box in frustration, but today nothing .

Now he might have been flat for any number of reasons , might have been physical as has had virus. Perhaps he was over confident or perhaps he just didn't have that usual edge and drive, because deep down he knows he has all the records that really matter. He genuinely might struggle to find much more motivation going forward.

We will see over next few months. I suspect he will be motivated for Winbledon and Olympics, but beyond that perhaps he just won't have that same desire and also dedication to keep putting the hours in anymore, to try and keep up with the youngsters.

However, credit to Sinner because he pounced on that weakness to really give Novak a real beat down for majority of match
 
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