Did the Williams sisters create an African American tennis hype?

[Tanya]

How did you come to the determination that she is half black?

She is half Hatian which is part of the same island the Dominican Republic in on, in the Caribbean.

So I'm not seeing the "half black" you are talking about.
Then again I don't like to focus on the color of a persons skin either.

Oh stop. Haitians are black. Naomi is half-black - it's well known - stop chasing windmills.

Black =/= African

 

[Stretchy Man]

Where are you from? Black people come in various shades. Ever seen Lena Horne?

Plus all 3 of those people do have dark skin. Dark is a relative concept.

Verdasco has darker skin than Madison. Seems a very strange term if you don't have dark skin, have caucasian features, and disrespectful to all your ancestors who weren't from Africa. Isn't she more white than black?

How do you define black? I'm guessing black means you have at least a very small amount of Black African blood, but then what about people from Vanuatu or southern India? What about sureshs? Is he black?

 

[AM75]

Of course there are also other ok players but the players with slam winning potential (Sloane, Serena and keys) are all African American. I think it is a good thing for tennis to have more diversity so the sisters deserve some credit. Have there been any good black American players before williams? Rubin was kinda ok, but other than her I think it was a white only sport in the US. That has changed.

Althea Gibson who is a legend.

Zina Garrison, Lori McNeil – both decent players in the late 1980s–early 1990s, who played at that time somehow better than their white teammates and showed that (American) tennis is not exclusively white sport.

 

[Tanya]

Verdasco has darker skin than Madison.

Verdasco is TAN. Tan is not a race.

 

[Soianka]

Verdasco has darker skin than Madison. Seems a very strange term if you don't have dark skin, have caucasian features, and disrespectful to all your ancestors who weren't from Africa. Isn't she more white than black?

How do you define black? I'm guessing black means you have at least a very small amount of Black African blood, but then what about people from Vanuatu or southern India? What about sureshs? Is he black?

So now youve changed your argument to focus on Madison solely?

There's plenty of black Americans with 2 black parents who are Madison's complexion or lighter.

It was advantageous economically to have more enslaved people by having an expansive category of black. It's not a scientific or rational concept. So your questions don't really make sense.

White was created as an exclusive category. Black was an inclusive one.

Do some research on the origins of the concept of race if you're really interested.

A tennis forum is not really the place for it.

 

[DRII]

Probably an American thing I don't quite understand, but how can you call Madison Keys black? Or Tsonga or Obama for that matter. Don't you need to have dark skin?

its called the 'one drop' rule.

 

[Ronaldo]

To paraphrase Cus, The Williams Sisters success create a spark of interest. Someone had to feed the spark until it became a flame. Then feed the flame until it became a fire, then feed the fire until it becomes a roaring blaze. Here's to those who fed the balls

 

[norcal]

Newsflash: American blacks and Haitian blacks both originated from Africa.

Ever heard of boats? Ever heard of the slavetrade? lol some people skipped history and geography class.

Speaking of African American players I was watching the girl's 1/4 dubs, a team of Baptiste and Hewitt. Both promising players...Hewitt looks like a model version of Keys.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

The Williams sisters inspired many players to join, not just African Americans. I always love hearing stories or seeing photos of younger players with Serena or Venus. I believe Osaka’s father was inspired by Richard Williams and that’s why Naomi plays tennis. Now she’s Serena’s US Open final opponent.

 

[Stretchy Man]

its called the 'one drop' rule.

I had to google that one:

The legal concept of the "one-drop rule" does not exist outside the United States.[4] It is defunct in the United States and was never codified into federal law.

No wonder I'm confused. I don't think Madison would be described as black in any other country. Seems a little sad that this concept to describe racial impurity is still being used.

 

[TagUrIt]

To the original poster: This was not a smart topic to start, especially being so misinformed.

 

[Service Ace]

How did you come to the determination that she is half black?

She is half Hatian which is part of the same island the Dominican Republic in on, in the Caribbean.

So I'm not seeing the "half black" you are talking about.
Then again I don't like to focus on the color of a persons skin either.

 

[Deleted member 716271]

Yes. But there is obviously nothing wrong with it. Just as if a white kid was inspired by Steve Nash to play basketball.

Personally dont care someones race to be a fan of them, probably half of my sports heros are black and half are white.

But others can have any motivation they want, nothing wrong or hateful about it.

 

[DRII]

Newsflash: American blacks and Haitian blacks both originated from Africa.

Ever heard of boats? Ever heard of the slavetrade? lol some people skipped history and geography class.

Speaking of African American players I was watching the girl's 1/4 dubs, a team of Baptiste and Hewitt. Both promising players...Hewitt looks like a model version of Keys.

SHE'S BEAUTIFUL

 

[DRII]

I had to google that one:

The legal concept of the "one-drop rule" does not exist outside the United States.[4] It is defunct in the United States and was never codified into federal law.

No wonder I'm confused. I don't think Madison would be described as black in any other country. Seems a little sad that this concept to describe racial impurity is still being used.

yea, the history is bad, but to be honest most 'interracial' people in the US do not mind being considered black or a person of color.

of course we still have our issues with race here in the US, looks who's president and the campaign he ran to 'win', but for the most part (especially n bigger cities/metro areas and most suburbs) the climate is one of tolerance and even embrace of diversity.

 

[Gary Duane]

Hmm. What could POSSIBLY go wrong with a thread like this in a forum like this?

 

[Ronaldo]

 

[Service Ace]

Verdasco has darker skin than Madison. Seems a very strange term if you don't have dark skin, have caucasian features, and disrespectful to all your ancestors who weren't from Africa. Isn't she more white than black?

How do you define black? I'm guessing black means you have at least a very small amount of Black African blood, but then what about people from Vanuatu or southern India? What about sureshs? Is he black?

 

[Bartelby]

Why is that only I make political comments on this board?

yea, the history is bad, but to be honest most 'interracial' people in the US do not mind being considered black or a person of color.

of course we still have our issues with race here in the US, looks who's president and the campaign he ran to 'win', but for the most part (especially n bigger cities/metro areas and most suburbs) the climate is one of tolerance and even embrace of diversity.

 

[Soianka]

She's attractive. Another attractive player that never really did anything on the circuit is Asia Muhammad. I wonder if this girl will have any impact.

 

[DRII]

LOL...

but, i believe @Stretchy Man was inquiring out of genuine curiosity and not malice like the AM75 guy and the normal alt-rite types on this board.

 

[slice bh compliment]

She's attractive. Another attractive player that never really did anything on the circuit is Asia Muhammad. I wonder if this girl will have any impact.

I always liked the name, Asia Muhammad.
I always wanted her to play dubs with Europe Isaiah...
against the team, Africa Moses and Americas buddha.

 

[Ronaldo]

I always liked the name, Asia Muhammad.
I always wanted her to play dubs with Europe Isaiah...
against the team, Africa Moses and Americas buddha.

All around the world in 2 sets, eh? Pity Moon Unit Zappa & Mars Blackmon never teamed up to Face Venus Williams & Perry Saturn

 

[a10best]

Where are you from? Black people come in various shades. Ever seen Lena Horne?

Plus all 3 of those people do have dark skin. Dark is a relative concept.

Unfortunately, that's not true. The world outside the U.S. will not call Madison, Steph Curry, Trevor Noah and similar shades black people. African-descent sure but across the USA's borders they would be mulato or moreno. The half-black, third or quarter black = you're black thing was created by Americans back in the early days. Ask any immigrant (Mexican, South American, European), foreign born and raised people the difference.
America's flawed definition does not define the world's. We are on the only major country to still use inches of instead the metric system which the rest of the world uses.

 

[Gary Duane]

All around the world in 2 sets, eh? Pity Moon Unit Zappa & Mars Blackmon never teamed up to Face Venus Williams & Perry Saturn

Don't forget about Veronica Mars, although I don't think she played tennis.

 

[r2473]

Probably an American thing I don't quite understand, but how can you call Madison Keys black? Or Tsonga or Obama for that matter. Don't you need to have dark skin?

No. You just need to identify as black.

 

[Soianka]

Unfortunately, that's not true. The world outside the U.S. will not call Madison, Steph Curry, Trevor Noah and similar shades black people. African-descent sure but they're across the USA's borders they would be mulato or moreno. The half-black, third or quarter black = you're black thing was created by Americans back in the early days. Ask any immigrant (Mexican, South American, European), foreign born and raised people the difference.
America's flawed definition does not define the world's. We are on the only major country to still use inches of instead the metric system which the rest of the world uses.

The whole concept of race within the human species is flawed no matter what particular definitions any one person or country decides to use.

So the idea of calling people mullatos and Moreno/morena is not any more accurate than simply calling them black

In fact, those terms seem to be exclusive to central and south America and mullato at least is considered derogatory by many.

People in England might call Madison "half caste"...but they would also call her black just like they do their new princess. So your argument falls apart.

Pretty sure Steph Curry has 2 black parents. So does his light skinned wife. Black people come in various shades even within the same family/generation.

Though it is interesting to note how many people on this thread seem so bizarrely invested in shrinking the category of blackness and removing certain particular members.

Why do you care? Why is it so important to you to pick out certain people with African ancestry and declare that they are not really black?

Seems a little strange to me.

 

[r2473]

There seems to be a pretty big tennis boom among African American girls. Actually almost all good younger American female players under 25 are black:

-stephens (25)

-keys (23)

-townsend (22)

-gauff (14 current junior number 1)

Can this solely be attributed to the success of the Williams sisters?

Do you have a graph of Tennys participation by black American women over time?

 

[r2473]

The whole concept of race within the human species is flawed no matter what particular definitions any one person or country decides to use.

So the idea of calling people mullatos and Moreno/morena is not any more accurate than simply calling them black

In fact, those terms seem to be exclusive to central and south America and mullato at least is considered derogatory by many.

People in England might call Madison "half caste"...but they would also call her black just like they do their new princess. So your argument falls apart.

Pretty sure Steph Curry has 2 black parents. So does his light skinned wife. Black people come in various shades even within the same family/generation.

Though it is interesting to note how many people on this thread seem so bizarrely invested in shrinking the category of blackness and removing certain particular members.

Why do you care? Why is it so important to you to pick out certain people with African ancestry and declare that they are not really black?

Seems a little strange to me.

I suppose it is all definition based, right?

So if you want to do away with the concept of race, that’s fine. Or if you want to define “black” or “white” in a certain way, that’s fine too.

Just be clear with your definitions so as to avoid ambiguity.

As far as I’m concerned, you can have 2 white parents and call yourself black or vice versa. Nobody will know what you’re talking about, but that’s fine.

 

[a10best]

The whole concept of race within the human species is flawed no matter what particular definitions any one person or country decides to use.

So the idea of calling people mullatos and Moreno/morena is not any more accurate than simply calling them black as we do here in the States. In fact many people (myself included) would be offended if you called them a mullato.

Though it is interesting to note how many people on this thread seem so bizarrely invested in shrinking the category of blackness and removing certain particular members.

But yeah, this is not a conversation for a tennis message board.

If you find the need to tell random black folks (in some cases even those having 2 black parents) that they are not really black. Sounds like a personal problem you should deal with.

I agree with you about the concept being flawed by us and foreign countries. Good point. Those being offended is relative to geography. Wrong topic for a tennis board that could go on for weeks and so many areas I'd want to cover.

 

[DRII]

I suppose it is all definition based, right?

So if you want to do away with the concept of race, that’s fine. Or if you want to define “black” or “white” in a certain way, that’s fine too.

Just be clear with your definitions so as to avoid ambiguity.

As far as I’m concerned, you can have 2 white parents and call yourself black or vice versa. Nobody will know what you’re talking about, but that’s fine.

@Soianka was very clear, and also correct.

i suggest you recognize that.

 

[r2473]

@Soianka was very clear, and also correct.

i suggest you recognize that.

I have no problem living with or recognizing @Soianka definitions.

I also have no problems living with or recognizing someone else’s definition.

When you use a term, just tell me how you are defining it, especially if you are using it in a way that isn’t customary

 

[Hardcourter]

Funny that fat chicken Taylor Townsend mentioned here.. Or maybe not that funny. I mean she is classic example of a ****** in US these days. Prob spends half of his Day In local McDonald's eating 100 hamburgers for breakfest 

Should be no where near a tennis court. I mean I would move faster on court with just one leg LOL

 

[Ronaldo]

Funny that fat chicken Taylor Townsend mentioned here.. Or maybe not that funny. I mean she is classic example of a ****** in US these days. Prob spends half of his Day In local McDonald's eating 100 hamburgers for breakfest 

Should be no where near a tennis court. I mean I would move faster on court with just one leg LOL

Fest eh?

 

[Bartelby]

You need to both identify as a person with that ethnicity and have others around you in that group identify you as a member.

No. You just need to identify as black.

 

[Stretchy Man]

Madison doesn't call herself black. Maybe we shouldn't either.

“I don’t really identify myself as white or African-American. I’m just me. I’m Madison.”

 

[Ronaldo]

Madison doesn't call herself black. Maybe we shouldn't either.

“I don’t really identify myself as white or African-American. I’m just me. I’m Madison.”

Don't matter if she calls herself an Octoroon. She will have her moment

 

[r2473]

You need to both identify as a person with that ethnicity and have others around you in that group identify you as a member.

I have black friends

 

[Ronaldo]

I have black friends

So does Donald Trump

 

[r2473]

So does Donald Trump

He’s my homie

 

[Antonio Puente]

So does Donald Trump

He did... in 2016.

 

[Antonio Puente]

You can speak of Madison, Naomi or whoever. Is the concept of race dying in North America and Europe? Absolutely, but it's certainly not dying due to the efforts of extreme right wingers.

 

[Tommy Haas]

Is Naomi half Haitian? I always thought her father was an American serviceman who was stationed in Japan and that's how her parents met.

 

[jm1980]

Verdasco has darker skin than Madison. Seems a very strange term if you don't have dark skin, have caucasian features, and disrespectful to all your ancestors who weren't from Africa. Isn't she more white than black?

How do you define black? I'm guessing black means you have at least a very small amount of Black African blood, but then what about people from Vanuatu or southern India? What about sureshs? Is he black?

@Service Ace defines anyone who has even a single black ancestor as black. Why? Because of the one drop rule, a concept invented by American white supremacists who were also responsible for Jim Crow laws.

You heard it right, folks. This fellow actually agrees with (and chooses to perpetuate) definitions invented by racists.

 

[Steady Eddy]

How did you come to the determination that she is half black?

She is half Hatian which is part of the same island the Dominican Republic in on, in the Caribbean.

So I'm not seeing the "half black" you are talking about.
Then again I don't like to focus on the color of a persons skin either.

Haiti is nearly all black. The Dominican Republic is about a quarter black, rest Hispanic. She's half Haitian, half Japanese. Weird how the media calls her Japanese, but ignores her Haitian heritage. Also, she has American citizenship.

 

[Stretchy Man]

Weird how the media calls her Japanese, but ignores her Haitian heritage.

Maybe because she represents Japan and has a Japanese name?

 

[Marius_Hancu]

Gauff, 14, 1.80m, former Junior #1, has just been beaten soundly in Yucatan QFs by Dianne Parry, a very crafty Frenchwoman; 16 yo, but much smaller and lesser ranked.
See full-match video (not very clear, sorry).

Parry: great platform serve, hooked serves and ATP-style FHs, 1HBH), all court game.
Reminded me of Justine Henin vs Serena Williams, 2007 USO )

See Parry in action in a drama-full full match!! (this, a quality video)
Nagata Anri v Parry Diane - 2018 Melbourne

 

[MLRoy]

I think cures for global warming and cancer will one day be attributed solely to the success of the Williams sisters.

Well, they are Godlesses...

 

[slice bh compliment]

You can speak of Madison, Naomi or whoever. Is the concept of race dying in North America and Europe? Absolutely, but it's certainly not dying due to the efforts of extreme right wingers.

Yes. I feel everyone is remarkably sweet, sensitive, and Pc now. I don't see color. Now, is this brand of political correctness real? Or is it just fear?

re: your comment about the right's efforts to revive the race concept.... not sure if it is these extreme right wingers, or the progressives. Both sure are quick to bring up things like race politics and gender bias, privilege, disenfranchisement, oppression, triggers, microaggressions, and racewar. All rubbish, and the politicians use every bit of it.

In the words of the famous rodney king, "can't we all just get along?"
Treat eachother like brothers and sisters. Make the whole nation a safe space.
I am for peace, justice, and i am thankful for all this opportunity.