Different tensions on mains vs. crosses in a full poly set up (18x20)?

[rooski]

When I used to do hybrid set ups I would always have different tensions for the mains (usually a stiff poly like Hurricane Tour 16) and a multi in the crosses (usually Addiction) but now that I'm using only full poly beds I'm not sure if there's any benefit to having different tensions. I've been stringing at my racket at 50lbs on both mains and crosses but as I'm moving into stiffer polys (RPM Team, HG, TB) I'm wondering if it makes sense to drop the cross string tension down a couple of pounds and go 50 mains / 48 crosses. I know that the idea is to give you more dwell time or pocketing but I'm not sure it really does that with all poly. Does it? I can already hear at least a few of you saying "try it for yourself and see what you think" and I probably will but my question is...does it really make a significant difference in a full poly bed?

 

[esgee48]

No, unless you have the RHS to pocket the ball. [Hearsay] I have 4.5s that tried 50M/48C vs 50M/50C and they could not tell the difference - DT. Could be they were not sensitive to 2# difference. However, a 5.0+ who tried their frames could feel the difference in DT. This was a few years ago with older Lux polys.

 

[Shroud]

When I used to do hybrid set ups I would always have different tensions for the mains (usually a stiff poly like Hurricane Tour 16) and a multi in the crosses (usually Addiction) but now that I'm using only full poly beds I'm not sure if there's any benefit to having different tensions. I've been stringing at my racket at 50lbs on both mains and crosses but as I'm moving into stiffer polys (RPM Team, HG, TB) I'm wondering if it makes sense to drop the cross string tension down a couple of pounds and go 50 mains / 48 crosses. I know that the idea is to give you more dwell time or pocketing but I'm not sure it really does that with all poly. Does it? I can already hear at least a few of you saying "try it for yourself and see what you think" and I probably will but my question is...does it really make a significant difference in a full poly bed?

20lbs does

 

[BlueB]

20lbs does

Even 10 does...

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[travlerajm]

40 does even more.

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...et-to-preventing-poly-from-going-dead.563630/

 

[1HBHfanatic]

No, unless you have the RHS to pocket the ball. [Hearsay] I have 4.5s that tried 50M/48C vs 50M/50C and they could not tell the difference - DT. Could be they were not sensitive to 2# difference. However, a 5.0+ who tried their frames could feel the difference in DT. This was a few years ago with older Lux polys.

Yeah, see, good experiment, and very commom findings from ppl who are tunned to their tension vs others that dont notise/care "as much" (the "as.much" group usually say, "string at 52lbs!, that should be good").

1. I drop cross tension to make it softer on my wrist.
2. The added bonus of better snapback..

I do want to retain the control from mains.tension a bit, and lowering the cross helps with comfort..

 

[1HBHfanatic]

@Shroud @BlueB
Question, do you all ever string crosses tighter than mains?
if you do, or if you tried it,, do you find it easier or harder to find/dial.in the ideal tension when ever you string crosses higher?

Reason for inquiry:, I string my raket at 49/46, fb poly
I prefer to let the main control the higher tension
but lately I wanna try higher crosses on fb.multi, to hopefully reduce string movement.. but I dont know how high to go on cross tension, because too low of main tension would create launch pad (have tried with no succes, years ago)..

 

[Shroud]

@Shroud @BlueB
Question, do you all ever string crosses tighter than mains?
if you do, or if you tried it,, do you find it easier or harder to find/dial.in the ideal tension when ever you string crosses higher?

Reason for inquiry:, I string my raket at 49/46, fb poly
I prefer to let the main control the higher tension
but lately I wanna try higher crosses on fb.multi, to hopefully reduce string movement.. but I dont know how high to go on cross tension, because too low of main tension would create launch pad (have tried with no succes, years ago)..

Never. 1st off i always string my kevlar mains at 86 because thats the max my machine goes to. So the crosses are always the same or lower

2nd i hate locked stringbeds. No idea why anyone outside of flat hitters would want to lock the stringbed by using a locked cross like multi or by increasing tension.

Sure, i used to have a more classic game and only used locked beds but now? No way.

 

[USPTARF97]

The mains string up about 35% tighter than the crosses stringing them both at the same tension. Stringing the mains another 4% tighter makes about 4% difference. Just play my 18x20 frames at 47/47 and it plays great. Have strung them at 46/44 and though there may have been a bit more spin it felt more stable at same tension in mains and crosses.
Tried poly/multi in my 18x20 going up 2lbs on crosses and didn’t care for it.

 

[Slapper]

I think it depends on the string(s), the type of stringing machine (lock out vs constant pull) and the stringer.

But in general, I find that a 5 lbs differential (crosses strung looser) gives more spin due to better snap back, without any significant downsides.

I am sceptical when it comes to large tension differentials such as those described in posts above. However, I have not tried such large differentials.

 

[moon shot]

The mains string up about 35% tighter than the crosses stringing them both at the same tension. Stringing the mains another 4% tighter makes about 4% difference. Just play my 18x20 frames at 47/47 and it plays great. Have strung them at 46/44 and though there may have been a bit more spin it felt more stable at same tension in mains and crosses.
Tried poly/multi in my 18x20 going up 2lbs on crosses and didn’t care for it.

I’m curious, please hear me out. Is 35% a measured value or a rough number to fit the message?

It seems reasonable and I’ve been curious since I read that Kuerten strung his frame with the crosses higher than the mains while virtually nobody else does. Would that created a stringbed that is less influenced by which axis the ball is struck on?

If I strung the mains around 44 and the crosses at 60 would that hypothetically more ‘even’ though bad for the frame? I guess I’m getting more into other concepts like the sergetti method.

 

[USPTARF97]

I’m curious, please hear me out. Is 35% a measured value or a rough number to fit the message?

It seems reasonable and I’ve been curious since I read that Kuerten strung his frame with the crosses higher than the mains while virtually nobody else does. Would that created a stringbed that is less influenced by which axis the ball is struck on?

If I strung the mains around 44 and the crosses at 60 would that hypothetically more ‘even’ though bad for the frame? I guess I’m getting more into other concepts like the sergetti method.

It is roughly 30-35% higher on the mains stringing both the mains and crosses at the same tension. If you want the string bed to play more evenly and last longer then string the crosses 4lbs higher than the mains. Playing full poly string something like 44/48.

 

[BlueB]

How did you go about measuring this percentage?

Loser crosses are actually beneficial - it's more comfy and produces more spin.

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[USPTARF97]

GGT Extra: Varying tension

GGT did the research but they aren’t the only people to have figured this out.

 

[USPTARF97]

How did you go about measuring this percentage?

Loser crosses are actually beneficial - it's more comfy and produces more spin.

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If you do that with full poly the mains get stretched out really fast. If comfortable and more spin is what you need then stay higher on the mains. If spin is no problem for you and you would like your strings to last longer, have better control, and play consistent longer..go up 4lbs on the cross.
With an 18x20 up two lbs on the crosses will do it. 16x19 go up 4lbs.
Use lower tensions than normal if you do this because the string bed will be more stiff.

 

[travlerajm]

I generally hate full poly, but can tolerate it only if I string mains much tighter than crosses. Exception would be Wilson spin effect racquets - 4g string tight all around seemed to work fine in those.

 

[USPTARF97]

I generally hate full poly, but can tolerate it only if I string mains much tighter than crosses. Exception would be Wilson spin effect racquets - 4g string tight all around seemed to work fine in those.

Have played the reverse with 4 lbs up on the mains with full poly. Although it will generate wicked spin there is a loss of control for me. Especially difficult to hit my spots on the serve. Just different styles of play.

 

[travlerajm]

2nd i hate locked stringbeds. No idea why anyone outside of flat hitters would want to lock the stringbed by using a locked cross like multi or by increasing tension.

Sure, i used to have a more classic game and only used locked beds but now? No way.

Have played the reverse with 4 lbs up on the mains with full poly. Although it will generate wicked spin there is a loss of control for me. Especially difficult to hit my spots on the serve. Just different styles of play.

I’m finding locked stringbeds have their place. For singles, I prefer Kevlar/zx at high differential for the added spin and margin from baseline. But for doubles, where the level of my performance in matches is strongly correlated to how confidently I can volley hard and low over the net, there is no doubt that I play better with locked stringbeds. My leaded up open pattern Titanium OS strung on the tight side with problend is allowing me to be a force in mixed doubles especially. I don’t miss the spin much in doubles because I never hit a single ground stroke and chip every forehand return anyway. Extra spin might help me on serves, but the extra accuracy on my first volley from the locked bed makes up for the lower spin level on serves because I feel so confident in my ability to execute first volley with precision and power. This racquet setup is very similar to the frame I played with from age 17-27 (Wilson Profile OS 2.7), only 1/2" longer. I used to string the Profile up at 78 lbs with Problend and charge the net behind it.

 

[USPTARF97]

Believe it or not Federer’s improvement in his game has not only been his footwork and hitting through the ball on his backhand, rather than slicing, but hitting with less spin. Have seen the graphics on the ball he hits now as it compares to how he hit before the 97” frame. More spin is not the goal for many players out there. The only place that hitting less spin doesnt seem to help him quite as much is on the red clay. 3 of the 4 majors are not on clay so works in his favor. Also for the end of the year championships.
I can still hit tremendous spin with mains and crosses strung the same or with the crosses up 4lbs with full poly. My strokes are fairly classic with eastern forehand and eastern one handed backhand grip.
Sounds like people are believing the string differential is what generates all of the spin. Like somehow the only way to hit enough spin to efficiently play tennis must be done with a high differential strung high on the mains and slick cross strings. Not the case. Nadal strings at 55 on the mains and crosses. Sock strings same tension on mains and crosses at lower tension. Those are the two heaviest hitters of spin in the world.

 

[Shroud]

Believe it or not Federer’s improvement in his game has not only been his footwork and hitting through the ball on his backhand, rather than slicing, but hitting with less spin. Have seen the graphics on the ball he hits now as it compares to how he hit before the 97” frame. More spin is not the goal for many players out there. The only place that hitting less spin doesnt seem to help him quite as much is on the red clay. 3 of the 4 majors are not on clay so works in his favor. Also for the end of the year championships.
I can still hit tremendous spin with mains and crosses strung the same or with the crosses up 4lbs with full poly. My strokes are fairly classic with eastern forehand and eastern one handed backhand grip.
Sounds like people are believing the string differential is what generates all of the spin. Like somehow the only way to hit enough spin to efficiently play tennis must be done with a high differential strung high on the mains and slick cross strings. Not the case. Nadal strings at 55 on the mains and crosses. Sock strings same tension on mains and crosses at lower tension. Those are the two heaviest hitters of spin in the world.

Its the unlocked nature of socks and Nadals beds that help with the spin. The differential just helps it be more unlocked....

 

[USPTARF97]

Its the unlocked nature of socks and Nadals beds that help with the spin. The differential just helps it be more unlocked....

I was thinking it was his socks as well. That was a joke.

 

[phanker]

Crosses stabilize mains at impact. Lowering its tension allows the mains to move more giving you more spin. You also get unpredictable launch angles as there'll be less mains grabbing at the ball at impact.
Spin racquets work on the same principle by having less cross strings.

 

[1HBHfanatic]

Lots of good points on both camps,,
im thinking that it boils down to the preferrence on the players and what they choose to create with their shots..

I will def. Need to try both on my swing to see first hand if one makes me hit better than the other..

 

[USPTARF97]

Strung my Wilson 6.1 18x20’s with Cyclone Tour @ 47 and Solinco Tour Bite Soft @ 45. Incredible spin.
Lower on the crosses may generate a bit more spin but at the loss of control. Several pro players string 2lbs lower on the crosses with full poly like Monfils and Halep. Don’t see anyone with a high differential with full poly. It’s all personal preference.

 

[travlerajm]

Strung my Wilson 6.1 18x20’s with Cyclone Tour @ 47 and Solinco Tour Bite Soft @ 45. Incredible spin.
Lower on the crosses may generate a bit more spin but at the loss of control. Several pro players string 2lbs lower on the crosses with full poly like Monfils and Halep. Don’t see anyone with a high differential with full poly. It’s all personal preference.

Pros only use their full poly setups when they are fresh. The real advantage of stringing full poly with thoroughly prestretched high differential is that it never goes dead, because the snapback never dies. The loss of control can be compensated for by stringing the mains much tighter. Even with poly that has poor tension maintenance, if I string the mains tight enough initially, I can refresh the stringbed control by unweaving the crosses and restringing using the same string tighter to tighten up the bed.

 

[tomato123]

I was thinking it was his socks as well. That was a joke.

I'm looking to try full poly socks myself that hybrids textured/rough polyester with smooth/slick polyester for my next outing

 

[USPTARF97]

Pros only use their full poly setups when they are fresh. The real advantage of stringing full poly with thoroughly prestretched high differential is that it never goes dead, because the snapback never dies. The loss of control can be compensated for by stringing the mains much tighter. Even with poly that has poor tension maintenance, if I string the mains tight enough initially, I can refresh the stringbed control by unweaving the crosses and restringing using the same string tighter to tighten up the bed.

Poly and any string plays the best for me in the first few hours. Can play with full poly for 8-10hrs and it plays well. Everyone I come in contact with, whether they are 4.5+ NTRP, high level juniors or collegiate Div 1, 2 players, does the same and maintain a high level of play throughout the course of the string life. Have tried going up 4lbs on the mains and it does create more spin is just loses so much around the court in terms of control. Hitting ground strokes down the middle of the court is one thing but competing in tennis matches the loss of control just doesn’t work for my game.
Pre-stretching poly and stringing it at high tension the strings are dead from the beginning. That’s why they never seem to go dead because they are already there.

 

[travlerajm]

Poly and any string plays the best for me in the first few hours. Can play with full poly for 8-10hrs and it plays well. Everyone I come in contact with, whether they are 4.5+ NTRP, high level juniors or collegiate Div 1, 2 players, does the same and maintain a high level of play throughout the course of the string life. Have tried going up 4lbs on the mains and it does create more spin is just loses so much around the court in terms of control. Hitting ground strokes down the middle of the court is one thing but competing in tennis matches the loss of control just doesn’t work for my game.
Pre-stretching poly and stringing it at high tension the strings are dead from the beginning. That’s why they never seem to go dead because they are already there.

It’s a myth that prestretching poly makes it dead. It just feels deader because people don’t compensate for the lower tension loss by stringing at lower reference tension. Prestretching actually increases the energy return and elasticity if the string.

 

[USPTARF97]

It’s a myth that prestretching poly makes it dead. It just feels deader because people don’t compensate for the lower tension loss by stringing at lower reference tension. Prestretching actually increases the energy return and elasticity if the string.

Have pre-stretched a great number of poly strings and it is definitely dead and stiff when you pre-stretch. Have done it with Gut/poly, poly/poly, poly/multi, poly/syn gut and it decreases playability tremendously. Majority of pre-stretch I have done with poly is in the low 40’s to low 50’s. Have had success with pre-stretch on Natural Gut and certain Multi strings like NXT but it makes them play stiffer as well. Sometime I will pre stretch or not based on conditions. Playing in extreme heat pre stretch tends to play more controllable and in the midst of winter pre-stretch is too stiff. Significantly different feel.

 

[BlueB]

Poly doesn't "die" according to the TW research. It looses the tension and smoothness of the surface. They have restrung used polly and it played fine again.

As for my own experience, prestretch partially cancels the initial tension drop and extends playability.

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[USPTARF97]

Poly doesn't "die" according to the TW research. It looses the tension and smoothness of the surface. They have restrung used polly and it played fine again.

As for my own experience, prestretch partially cancels the initial tension drop and extends playability.

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It’s a matter of semantics, stretched out poly that has lost its surface and flattened out on the crosses feels dead. More so with some poly strings than others
Ever wondered why poly is much harder on the arm the longer it has been in the racquet? If all it did was simply lose tension then it would be easier on the arm. Not sure how you would string up used poly that has flattened, lost its surface and stretched out and it be fine.

 

[BlueB]

It’s a matter of semantics, stretched out poly that has lost its surface and flattened out on the crosses feels dead. More so with some poly strings than others
Ever wondered why poly is much harder on the arm the longer it has been in the racquet? If all it did was simply lose tension then it would be easier on the arm. Not sure how you would string up used poly that has flattened, lost its surface and stretched out and it be fine.

Actually, I mostly find the 3-20 hours old poly easier on the arm then a fresh one, unless it somhow notched (most polys don't).
At the point where the balls start sailing long, due to the loss of snapback, the bed starts feeling less comfy.

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[deaner2211]

Never. 1st off i always string my kevlar mains at 86 because thats the max my machine goes to. So the crosses are always the same or lower

2nd i hate locked stringbeds. No idea why anyone outside of flat hitters would want to lock the stringbed by using a locked cross like multi or by increasing tension.

Sure, i used to have a more classic game and only used locked beds but now? No way.

If I use a poly in the mains and a multi in the crosses, I string the multi cross higher than the poly but never with multi mains. I never use a fb of poly.

 

[USPTARF97]

Actually, I mostly find the 3-20 hours old poly easier on the arm then a fresh one, unless it somhow notched (most polys don't).
At the point where the balls start sailing long, due to the loss of snapback, the bed starts feeling less comfy.

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Depends on the string. Can play Lux Alu Power until it breaks and it is fine. Did that for 15+ yrs with Lux. Never got over 10-12 hrs out of set of strings much less 20 nor would I want to. Doing that you are playing with a completely different set up than you were the first 3hrs. Breaking a string and picking up another frame in a match is like two different animals.

 

[1HBHfanatic]

Have pre-stretched a great number of poly strings and it is definitely dead and stiff when you pre-stretch. Have done it with Gut/poly, poly/poly, poly/multi, poly/syn gut and it decreases playability tremendously. Majority of pre-stretch I have done with poly is in the low 40’s to low 50’s. Have had success with pre-stretch on Natural Gut and certain Multi strings like NXT but it makes them play stiffer as well. Sometime I will pre stretch or not based on conditions. Playing in extreme heat pre stretch tends to play more controllable and in the midst of winter pre-stretch is too stiff. Significantly different feel.

Agree, well said, this is also what I feel when prestretching string
not saying I dont do it, just find similar feeling as above..

 

[1HBHfanatic]

@USPTARF97 and @BlueB
what im hearing and feeling myself and ppl I string same string on their rakets (ones that are string/tension tuned),,
initial hit its fine, until it locks on them
the poly then becomes HARDER/stiffer on their raket (they descrive a stiffer string bed feel), than previous day (im guessing this is the dead feel of a poly everyone descrives), but then
then it starts to soften up gradually until it breaks..

 

[Shroud]

Have pre-stretched a great number of poly strings and it is definitely dead and stiff when you pre-stretch. Have done it with Gut/poly, poly/poly, poly/multi, poly/syn gut and it decreases playability tremendously. Majority of pre-stretch I have done with poly is in the low 40’s to low 50’s. Have had success with pre-stretch on Natural Gut and certain Multi strings like NXT but it makes them play stiffer as well. Sometime I will pre stretch or not based on conditions. Playing in extreme heat pre stretch tends to play more controllable and in the midst of winter pre-stretch is too stiff. Significantly different feel.

Please describe how you are prestretching the strings.

 

[rooski]

My poor thread got quasi-hijacked several times... but back to the original topic....as an update. I tried Hyper G 1.25 at 50/48 as promised in my CV Blade 18x20 and absolutely love it in this racket. I don't remember the last time when I guessed at a string/tension setting that I got right the first time. For me in this frame, I'd say it's darn near perfect. Whether the lower cross tension makes a difference I don't know and I don't care. It feels and plays awesome. Amazing pocketing feel with plenty of control. I'm now at 8 hours on the original string job and I can't believe how playable it still is. I'm shocked. Maybe the 18x20 pattern helps it hold its tension and maybe the stiffness of the string helps with that too but whatever is going on...I'm still very happy with it. I like it so much I just strung it up in my other Blade and bought 4 more sets.