Difficulties utilizing the racket flip

C

ConcreteCourtWinner

New User
My forehand is a semi-western one and am quite happy with that. Last couple of weeks I've been experimenting flipping the racket so that the side of the racket I hit the ball with faces the back fence during the takeback and the racket is horizontally oriented (its 'lying down'). Think Sinners forehand. Honestly it's pretty difficult to play that way and lots of framing, lots of hitting in the net, lots of misstiming the ball. However once I do hit the ball the right way with a loose wrist and in the sweetspot I manage to create lots of power although often times with too little spin.

Do you guys have any tips with regards to improving my Sinner-like forehand technique. Obviously his game is moreso predicated on hitting flatter versus Alcaraz hitting with more topspin, but his forehands still have plenty of topspin.

The reason I'm frustrated is that the Sinner forehand technique is so commanding when it works, but it just breaks down too easily for me. Is it just diffiuclt of a technique for players at my intermediate level. Should I just give up on this technique and should i instead have the racket being vertically oriented during the takeback?
 
ConcreteCourtWinner said:
My forehand is a semi-western one and am quite happy with that. Last couple of weeks I've been experimenting flipping the racket so that the side of the racket I hit the ball with faces the back fence during the takeback and the racket is horizontally oriented (its 'lying down'). Think Sinners forehand. Honestly it's pretty difficult to play that way and lots of framing, lots of hitting in the net, lots of misstiming the ball. However once I do hit the ball the right way with a loose wrist and in the sweetspot I manage to create lots of power although often times with too little spin.

Do you guys have any tips with regards to improving my Sinner-like forehand technique. Obviously his game is moreso predicated on hitting flatter versus Alcaraz hitting with more topspin, but his forehands still have plenty of topspin.

The reason I'm frustrated is that the Sinner forehand technique is so commanding when it works, but it just breaks down too easily for me. Is it just diffiuclt of a technique for players at my intermediate level. Should I just give up on this technique and should i instead have the racket being vertically oriented during the takeback?
Click to expand...
Oh man I have gone through exactly that. It is difficult for me too. Sinner's and Djokovic's styles!

Now I'm reverting back to having racket being vertically oriented like you said. I called that Del Potro style, like holding a torch.

I don't think we should copy any pro's since what they do is a whole system. It's very complex, and it's right down impossible for us when we approach it lopsidedly.

We should play what feels most comfortable for us and upon detecting a flaw, just change a little for that area and continue to hone in. That's my plan!
 
ConcreteCourtWinner said:
My forehand is a semi-western one and am quite happy with that. Last couple of weeks I've been experimenting flipping the racket so that the side of the racket I hit the ball with faces the back fence during the takeback and the racket is horizontally oriented (its 'lying down'). Think Sinners forehand. Honestly it's pretty difficult to play that way and lots of framing, lots of hitting in the net, lots of misstiming the ball. However once I do hit the ball the right way with a loose wrist and in the sweetspot I manage to create lots of power although often times with too little spin.

Do you guys have any tips with regards to improving my Sinner-like forehand technique. Obviously his game is moreso predicated on hitting flatter versus Alcaraz hitting with more topspin, but his forehands still have plenty of topspin.

The reason I'm frustrated is that the Sinner forehand technique is so commanding when it works, but it just breaks down too easily for me. Is it just diffiuclt of a technique for players at my intermediate level. Should I just give up on this technique and should i instead have the racket being vertically oriented during the takeback?
Click to expand...
Just a guess but you are probably playing matches with that fh right? If so, really hard to learn new stuff watching the score board.

If not, just get the reps in.
 
user92626 said:
Oh man I have gone through exactly that. It is difficult for me too. Sinner's and Djokovic's styles!
Click to expand...
They are doing the same thing. They start the stroke from different take back positions and from there do the SAME thing. You think they all have unique forehands?
Put me on ignore. It would be good for your game.
 
ConcreteCourtWinner said:
My forehand is a semi-western one and am quite happy with that. Last couple of weeks I've been experimenting flipping the racket so that the side of the racket I hit the ball with faces the back fence during the takeback and the racket is horizontally oriented (its 'lying down'). Think Sinners forehand. Honestly it's pretty difficult to play that way and lots of framing, lots of hitting in the net, lots of misstiming the ball. However once I do hit the ball the right way with a loose wrist and in the sweetspot I manage to create lots of power although often times with too little spin.

Do you guys have any tips with regards to improving my Sinner-like forehand technique. Obviously his game is moreso predicated on hitting flatter versus Alcaraz hitting with more topspin, but his forehands still have plenty of topspin.

The reason I'm frustrated is that the Sinner forehand technique is so commanding when it works, but it just breaks down too easily for me. Is it just diffiuclt of a technique for players at my intermediate level. Should I just give up on this technique and should i instead have the racket being vertically oriented during the takeback?
Click to expand...
Here's a question. What's the point of this change? What do you hope to accomplish?

What's wrong with your current forehand that you are hoping to fix by copying someone else's style?
 
user92626 said:
Oh man I have gone through exactly that. It is difficult for me too. Sinner's and Djokovic's styles!

Now I'm reverting back to having racket being vertically oriented like you said. I called that Del Potro style, like holding a torch.

I don't think we should copy any pro's since what they do is a whole system. It's very complex, and it's right down impossible for us when we approach it lopsidedly.

We should play what feels most comfortable for us and upon detecting a flaw, just change a little for that area and continue to hone in. That's my plan!
Click to expand...
Yeah I see what you're saying, it might be a tad too complex while the torch-holding technique is more intuitive for rec level players like me
 
ProStaffFanatic said:
Here's a question. What's the point of this change? What do you hope to accomplish?

What's wrong with your current forehand that you are hoping to fix by copying someone else's style?
Click to expand...
The point of the change is to allow for harder and flatter hitting which is always beneficial but especially on hard courts. When I do hit it right the power of the shot (although theres less spin and lift in general) exceeds that of my normal technique. If I were to 'fully' develop (as much as intermediate level player can) that type of technique the overall benefit would be a more aggressive game where I'm the one doing the dictating for the most part pushing opponents left to right. (Almost) Like Sinner

At the same theres nothing wrong with my normal forehand - the spin and lift allows for more control and also helps push back opponents. There might be a wish of 'wanting to be like Sinner' as well haha
 
ConcreteCourtWinner said:
The point of the change is to allow for harder and flatter hitting which is always beneficial but especially on hard courts. When I do hit it right the power of the shot (although theres less spin and lift in general) exceeds that of my normal technique. If I were to 'fully' develop (as much as intermediate level player can) that type of technique the overall benefit would be a more aggressive game where I'm the one doing the dictating for the most part pushing opponents left to right. (Almost) Like Sinner

At the same theres nothing wrong with my normal forehand - the spin and lift allows for more control and also helps push back opponents. There might be a wish of 'wanting to be like Sinner' as well haha
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Okay. Forgive me but I'm a bit skeptical in that it would make such a big difference in terms of power. So I wonder if the different takeback isn't also causing some other changes in overall body movement or alike.
Would be interesting to see a video of you hitting both forehands to see what's actually going on there.
 
ProStaffFanatic said:
Okay. Forgive me but I'm a bit skeptical in that it would make such a big difference in terms of power. So I wonder if the different takeback isn't also causing some other changes in overall body movement or alike.
Would be interesting to see a video of you hitting both forehands to see what's actually going on there.
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You might be right, it might be placebo if anything. There might be other mechanics that are affected. Having to 'uncoil' my arm with the Sinner technique makes it harder I would guess to really accelerate through the ball as compared to a regular forehand. With the Sinner technique the arm almost turns into a sling which presumably would lead to less control for a player learning the technique, whereas the stability of a normal forehand is greater. Having looked at videos of advanced players and pros the Sinner technique as i call is quite widely used, it might be Sinner 'exaggerates' the takeback slightly more. So it seems that the kinetic chain is more complex while the payoff (more power) might only come into play if you pull it off just right, which is truly difficult to do more times in a row. And that is if there even is more power
Might have to do swingvision session to get some spin and speed data
 
OP, I assume that if you are trying to incorporate the Sinner take back, you are utilizing an ATP forehand. If just changing the take back is causing excessive framing and spin issues, you are also doing something wrong with your usual forehand. There should only be a small adjustment period before hitting cleanly after a change in starting position. Sure, it would take a while before you can hit anywhere you want with the extra spin the JS take back provides, but framing? Something is fundamentally wrong.
 
ConcreteCourtWinner said:
My forehand is a semi-western one and am quite happy with that. Last couple of weeks I've been experimenting flipping the racket so that the side of the racket I hit the ball with faces the back fence during the takeback and the racket is horizontally oriented (its 'lying down').
Click to expand...
that reqiures alot of reps.
i've experimented, but abandoned it, as i'm not on the court enough... have settled with "pat the dog" (hitting face points to the ground)
i can do it against slower pace, but breaks down against faster pace
ConcreteCourtWinner said:
Think Sinners forehand. Honestly it's pretty difficult to play that way and lots of framing, lots of hitting in the net, lots of misstiming the ball. However once I do hit the ball the right way with a loose wrist and in the sweetspot I manage to create lots of power although often times with too little spin.
Click to expand...
lack of spin has more to do with the trajectory of the racquet through contact...
more/less flip of the face just gives more rhs (think of giving the tip more runway to accel)
ConcreteCourtWinner said:
Do you guys have any tips with regards to improving my Sinner-like forehand technique.
Click to expand...
up your practice time to 20h/w * 10y
ConcreteCourtWinner said:
Obviously his game is moreso predicated on hitting flatter versus Alcaraz hitting with more topspin, but his forehands still have plenty of topspin.

The reason I'm frustrated is that the Sinner forehand technique is so commanding when it works, but it just breaks down too easily for me. Is it just diffiuclt of a technique for players at my intermediate level. Should I just give up on this technique and should i instead have the racket being vertically oriented during the takeback?
Click to expand...
personally, simple is always better, especially if you're not practicing 20h/w
 
nyta2 said:
up your practice time to 20h/w * 10y
Click to expand...
Made me LOL :-D

Personally, especially at the non-pro level, I remain skeptical about such things for racket head speed.
The bulk of the power comes from weight transfer, rotation, leg loading,...

All of that needs to be top notch first. This focus on racket speed will more then likely just result in uncontrolled arm muscling to gain little power and mostly imprecision, resulting in more errors.
Unless you are already playing at pretty high level, to me it all kind of sounds like trying to run before you can properly walk.

And even so, plenty pro players don't play like that, and they clearly have no problem generating loads of power.
 
nyta2 said:
that reqiures alot of reps.
i've experimented, but abandoned it, as i'm not on the court enough... have settled with "pat the dog" (hitting face points to the ground)
i can do it against slower pace, but breaks down against faster pace

lack of spin has more to do with the trajectory of the racquet through contact...
more/less flip of the face just gives more rhs (think of giving the tip more runway to accel)

up your practice time to 20h/w * 10y

personally, simple is always better, especially if you're not practicing 20h/w
Click to expand...
I suspect you're right. I've certainly noticed that just about everyone I play with (they're all my level or similar) are not using the Sinner-like technique. Before experimenting my forehand was definitely improving as I focused on weight transfer, keeping distance to the ball and staying loose - plenty of spin and good placement. No shame in going back to that and like the other poster said it's probably like trying to run before walking properly. In any case it's always to tinker with your technique and see what you can adjust
 
ProStaffFanatic said:
Made me LOL :-D

Personally, especially at the non-pro level, I remain skeptical about such things for racket head speed.
The bulk of the power comes from weight transfer, rotation, leg loading,...
Click to expand...
can't make a comment of where "bulk of power" comes from, but yeah, those things (footwork + weight xfer + leg loading, rotation) are a much higher prio than tweaking which direction the hitting face is pointing on the take back
ProStaffFanatic said:
All of that needs to be top notch first. This focus on racket speed will more then likely just result in uncontrolled arm muscling to gain little power and mostly imprecision, resulting in more errors.
Unless you are already playing at pretty high level, to me it all kind of sounds like trying to run before you can properly walk.
Click to expand...
+1
ProStaffFanatic said:
And even so, plenty pro players don't play like that, and they clearly have no problem generating loads of power.
Click to expand...
 
Look for Sinner forehand high speed videos that show side camera views looking at the upward slope of the racket head path and the closed tilt on the racket face at impact. Impacts that are high or low relative to the racket shaft center line ( a line through the handle across the strings) will tilt the racket face up or down suddenly during and after impact, notice those high and low hits too. The side camera view does not show much of the ball trajectory and whether in or out. You then have a forehand reference that is one of the best forehands in the world. Typical closed racket face tilts for forehand topspin over recent years have been 5-10 degrees closed or so. Sinner ?

Do the same for your forehand. You complained about control that is closely related to the above two video observations, racket upward path and closed racket face tilt at impact.

You need a camera capable of 240 fps and very fast shutter speeds in bright sunlight that results in small motion blur.

I bought a used Casio Ex-FH100 for $85. It has a shutter speed down to 25 microseconds (1/40,000 sec). Some smart phone cameras might do well, but video file sizes may become a problem if you want to do many videos in the future. This works well with a ball machine and the camera on a tripod in a safe spot. Download a user's manual from Casio Support if still available.

There is a video of Sinner showing his training. One of his exercises was land mines. That exercise is associated with Spinal Engine. I do not know if Spinal Engine is associated with Sinner's forehand. Gavin MacMillan, Sabalenka coach, is a coach that advocates SE. Information in thread The Tennis Serve - What's True?
C

Post in thread 'A Deep Analysis of Jannik Sinner's Explosive Forehand Technique'

Sinner's training method includes landmine exercises. Landmine exercises are associated with training for Spinal Engine. Is Sinner using Spinal Engine for his forehand? Other strokes?

See Landmine training at 9:06.

First Playback starts at the Landmine Exercises.

This video does not mention Spinal Engine. Is SE being used by Sinner?
 
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OP,

I'm interested in what you will decide to do. Continue to pursue this new FH or go back to your FH.

For a new FH it's possible if we practice and implement it at a slow speed.

I find this this topic to be very interesting as I've been going through the same issue.

I don't know what else to add other than just be patient, observe and iron out small kinks one at a time.
 
user92626 said:
OP,

I'm interested in what you will decide to do. Continue to pursue this new FH or go back to your FH.

For a new FH it's possible if we practice and implement it at a slow speed.

I find this this topic to be very interesting as I've been going through the same issue.

I don't know what else to add other than just be patient, observe and iron out small kinks one at a time.
Click to expand...
I'm glad my post caught your eye. I've been thinking about what to do. Honestly I think I'm going back to the more natural torch-holding pose on the forehand.

The thing is swinging through the ball with a stretched arm is waaay easier for me with a regular fh technique. With Sinner style the arm is sort of a sling which makes it harder for me to hit the ball with a stretched arm. The longer the arm is the bigger the 'lever' is and the more power you get. It's also easier to get lift on low quick balls with the torch holding fh - it's just easier getting under the ball and 'digging' it up.

The Sinner style fh works somewhat better for me on balls where the hitting point is above the net - for whatever reason lift on the ball is a real issue for me.

Like you said with plenty of practice I won't deny that Sinner style might work, but I'm just not sure exactly how much practice is needed. My guess: A LOT.
When using the Sinner style fh I think I get into my head a little bit and tighten up, stop swinging freely, so I'll definitely give it a go again here and there for the fun of it, remembering to stay loose.

I think if you can train with a ball machine you can start training the Sinner style fh with short balls where you have the presence of mind to swing through the ball and focus on all aspects: stretched arm or whatever works for you. And then work your way to the baseline changing the settings on the ball machine.
 
ConcreteCourtWinner said:
I'm glad my post caught your eye. I've been thinking about what to do. Honestly I think I'm going back to the more natural torch-holding pose on the forehand.

The thing is swinging through the ball with a stretched arm is waaay easier for me with a regular fh technique. With Sinner style the arm is sort of a sling which makes it harder for me to hit the ball with a stretched arm. The longer the arm is the bigger the 'lever' is and the more power you get. It's also easier to get lift on low quick balls with the torch holding fh - it's just easier getting under the ball and 'digging' it up.

The Sinner style fh works somewhat better for me on balls where the hitting point is above the net - for whatever reason lift on the ball is a real issue for me.

Like you said with plenty of practice I won't deny that Sinner style might work, but I'm just not sure exactly how much practice is needed. My guess: A LOT.
When using the Sinner style fh I think I get into my head a little bit and tighten up, stop swinging freely, so I'll definitely give it a go again here and there for the fun of it, remembering to stay loose.

I think if you can train with a ball machine you can start training the Sinner style fh with short balls where you have the presence of mind to swing through the ball and focus on all aspects: stretched arm or whatever works for you. And then work your way to the baseline changing the settings on the ball machine.
Click to expand...

That's similar to my thinking process. There's pro's and con's to each choice.

Here's some of my observations.

I could do Sinner or Djokovic styles in a well control environment, ie ball machine & backyard. I see all the merits, but it's well controlled.

Out at the court with live opponents, it becomes 10x harder with anything that I feel a bit unfamiliar. I envy my opponents who aren't obsessed with changes. It seems like they get on with their stuff and only exert effort to compete.

That said, I'm gonna stay with my familiar FH which I have built, played with for 10+ years. I will just make small changes to enhance consistency and power, but a little at a time. Hopefully it will add up over time. Example, raise the elbow just a bit...

Good luck, bud.
 
user92626 said:
That's similar to my thinking process. There's pro's and con's to each choice.

Here's some of my observations.

I could do Sinner or Djokovic styles in a well control environment, ie ball machine & backyard. I see all the merits, but it's well controlled.

Out at the court with live opponents, it becomes 10x harder with anything that I feel a bit unfamiliar. I envy my opponents who aren't obsessed with changes. It seems like they get on with their stuff and only exert effort to compete.

That said, I'm gonna stay with my familiar FH which I have built, played with for 10+ years. I will just make small changes to enhance consistency and power, but a little at a time. Hopefully it will add up over time. Example, raise the elbow just a bit...

Good luck, bud.
Click to expand...
Thanks

Just wanted to give an update. Since I made my last post in this thread I've played numerous times and I've come to the conclusion that the Sinner-like fh technique doesn't work for me at all. The torch-holding technique works great and ultimately it feels great too. I've definitely given up on the Sinner-like fh technique and have fully committed to going back to the torch-holding technique a la Holger Rune who does the torch-holding pose on a lot of his forehands.

There's way more safety and its way easier to play with the torch-holding technique and its also simpler and also more comfortable.

Straying away from my usual technique felt like starting all over again, just a complete lack of confidence and a tremendous amount of framing and miss-timing. Going back to what I know just instantly rebuilt the confidence and the joy of playing the sport returned
 
ConcreteCourtWinner said:
Thanks

Just wanted to give an update. Since I made my last post in this thread I've played numerous times and I've come to the conclusion that the Sinner-like fh technique doesn't work for me at all. The torch-holding technique works great and ultimately it feels great too. I've definitely given up on the Sinner-like fh technique and have fully committed to going back to the torch-holding technique a la Holger Rune who does the torch-holding pose on a lot of his forehands.

There's way more safety and its way easier to play with the torch-holding technique and its also simpler and also more comfortable.

Straying away from my usual technique felt like starting all over again, just a complete lack of confidence and a tremendous amount of framing and miss-timing. Going back to what I know just instantly rebuilt the confidence and the joy of playing the sport returned
Click to expand...
You were doing it (Sinner) wrong, then. If you understand why the ATP forehand is superior, you could alternate between all of your favorite player’s styles during a rally with a friend. Not being able to do Sinner tells me you aren’t doing Rune’s forehand correctly either. Ultimately, you are chasing success, and if “torch-holding” works best for you, do it.
There’s an old tennis adage (at least it will be old when this post ages), if you can perform one ATP forehand, you can perform them all, if you can’t perform all ATP forehands, you can’t perform one.
 
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ConcreteCourtWinner said:
Thanks

Just wanted to give an update. Since I made my last post in this thread I've played numerous times and I've come to the conclusion that the Sinner-like fh technique doesn't work for me at all. The torch-holding technique works great and ultimately it feels great too. I've definitely given up on the Sinner-like fh technique and have fully committed to going back to the torch-holding technique a la Holger Rune who does the torch-holding pose on a lot of his forehands.

There's way more safety and its way easier to play with the torch-holding technique and its also simpler and also more comfortable.

Straying away from my usual technique felt like starting all over again, just a complete lack of confidence and a tremendous amount of framing and miss-timing. Going back to what I know just instantly rebuilt the confidence and the joy of playing the sport returned
Click to expand...
Awesome!

You and I have come to the same conclusion. Not only that, we kinda "process" our FHs similarly too, ie torch holding, the familiar feelings. Trust me it ain't easy to have developed something very comfortable and effective at the same time.

As long as your strokes meet the critical fundamental elements, then they're good. To boot rec tennis is especially forgiving.
 
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ballmachineguy said:
You were doing it (Sinner) wrong, then. If you understand why the ATP forehand is superior, you could alternate between all of your favorite player’s styles during a rally with a friend. Not being able to do Sinner tells me you aren’t doing Rune’s forehand correctly either. Ultimately, you are chasing success, and if “torch-holding” works best for you, do it.
There’s an old tennis adage (at least it will be old when this post ages), if you can perform one ATP forehand, you can perform them all, if you can’t perform all ATP forehands, you can’t perform one.
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Again with stupid posts! It's like you have to say things, even blatantly wrong, obvious trolling, to screw up others or put down others.

I already replied to your post in similar vein, why couldn't your reply? https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...-need-a-loop-think-again.786158/post-18818263
 
user92626 said:
Again with stupid posts! It's like you have to say things, even blatantly wrong, obvious trolling, to screw up others or put down others.

I already replied to your post in similar vein, why couldn't your reply? https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...-need-a-loop-think-again.786158/post-18818263
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Sorry, but I am 100% right. What do you want me to do, lie and say it is complex/difficult and you have to be a pro and every fh is unique in how it is executed?
Believe me, I think your posts are stupid.
 
ballmachineguy said:
Sorry, but I am 100% right. What do you want me to do, lie and say it is complex/difficult and you have to be a pro and every fh is unique in how it is executed?
Believe me, I think your posts are stupid.
Click to expand...
If you're right, give your reasoning, coherent arguments.

All you "do" is tell people that they are incompetent or failures.

Who the hell can perform "all ATP forehands"? You can't even carry on a few meaningful posts in a conversation.
 
Digital Atheist said:
I understand, but if it really bothers you that much just use the ignore button and save yourself some unnecessary suffering.
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It doesn't bother me in the way that you think.

I have tried ignoring him. I didn't like it. I like this way better. I wouldn't be doing something I didn't like.
 
user92626 said:
If you're right, give your reasoning, coherent arguments.

All you "do" is tell people that they are incompetent or failures.

Who the hell can perform "all ATP forehands"?
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1. People are already convinced I don’t know what I am talking about, so it is a waste of time.

2. The first part of fixing something is knowing it is broken.

3. I can!
 
@ConcreteCourtWinner

You probably already know what’s happening but this new video explains it clearly. Is it a good model for rec players? I don’t think it is. Yes, compactness could be an advantage but that amount of variance in racket face orientation is hard to master.


 
ProStaffFanatic said:
Here's a question. What's the point of this change? What do you hope to accomplish?

What's wrong with your current forehand that you are hoping to fix by copying someone else's style?
Click to expand...
Everyone is uniquely different and unless you have his human albatross wing span and practice for minimum 10 years 5hours a day then why?

Humbert's FH is much easier for anyone its probably the most mechanically concise and cleanest stroke on the tour, his brain is another issue
as he is like Sabalenka screaming like he is about to give birth and both H22 users.
 
user92626 said:
(posting random stuff now)

Who you mean? C? And you get annoyed by that and have to post the way you post?
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“The way you post?”

Have you read any of your own? “What if I take the racquet back lower?”
“Turning the racquet toward the back fence is complicated.”
(Paraphrasing)
You can’t see the forest for the trees.
 
Curious said:
Nice. Didn’t watch him much.
Like the almost zero loop take back. Nice and simple.


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I really like him met him and his mother when he was only 15 after complementing to his mother watching on
The only issue is he is a very "nice" guy a heart of gold and that in tennis does not always translate to the
clutch found in more higher ranked players that can keep that level and keep pushing at those limits.
FAA is another of those heart of Gold guys that unlike Humbert has a weaker BH side.
When Humbert is on song he reminds me of a lefty version of Davydenko another concise ball striker.
He is now 26 yo so hopefully we see the best of him soon as his prefrontal cortex is closing up :)
 
DariaGT said:
Everyone is uniquely different and unless you have his human albatross wing span and practice for minimum 10 years 5hours a day then why?

Humbert's FH is much easier for anyone its probably the most mechanically concise and cleanest stroke on the tour, his brain is another issue
as he is like Sabalenka screaming like he is about to give birth and both H22 users.
Click to expand...
Oh wow, hadn't thought about taking a look at Humbert, but you're right. From a rec player standpoint thats a great fh to look into, its simpler but obviously works
 
Curious said:
@ConcreteCourtWinner

You probably already know what’s happening but this new video explains it clearly. Is it a good model for rec players? I don’t think it is. Yes, compactness could be an advantage but that amount of variance in racket face orientation is hard to master.


Click to expand...
Waaay yo much variance in racket face orientation - the amount of time as others have pointed out that it would take to build up the muscle memory to do this would be astounding. When playing with the Sinner technique it was almost like I at certain points could hear my brain thinking how to swing through. There was no automatization in the slightest, it was like I actively had to force-think the movement. And the timing with the ball would also be more difficult, so the arm often would not be stretched at contact point
 
ConcreteCourtWinner said:
Waaay yo much variance in racket face orientation - the amount of time as others have pointed out that it would take to build up the muscle memory to do this would be astounding. When playing with the Sinner technique it was almost like I at certain points could hear my brain thinking how to swing through. There was no automatization in the slightest, it was like I actively had to force-think the movement. And the timing with the ball would also be more difficult, so the arm often would not be stretched at contact point
Click to expand...
Try this. Hover your hand palm side down 8” over a table. Slap the table with your palm. Easy huh? Now hover it palm up and slap the table with your palm. You flipped your hand didn’t you? You hit it squarely with your palm, right? You didn’t hit the pinky side of your hand or overrotate and jamb your thumb.
I promise, if you understand what is actually happening on the forehand, using Sunner’s technique isn’t any more difficult than keeping the racquet square the whole stroke. Players do not control or have to think about getting the racquet square any more than slapping a table. I’m telling you this because you will only truly understand the fh when that becomes the reality for you.
 
ConcreteCourtWinner said:
My forehand is a semi-western one and am quite happy with that. Last couple of weeks I've been experimenting flipping the racket so that the side of the racket I hit the ball with faces the back fence during the takeback and the racket is horizontally oriented (its 'lying down'). Think Sinners forehand. Honestly it's pretty difficult to play that way and lots of framing, lots of hitting in the net, lots of misstiming the ball. However once I do hit the ball the right way with a loose wrist and in the sweetspot I manage to create lots of power although often times with too little spin.

Do you guys have any tips with regards to improving my Sinner-like forehand technique. Obviously his game is moreso predicated on hitting flatter versus Alcaraz hitting with more topspin, but his forehands still have plenty of topspin.

The reason I'm frustrated is that the Sinner forehand technique is so commanding when it works, but it just breaks down too easily for me. Is it just diffiuclt of a technique for players at my intermediate level. Should I just give up on this technique and should i instead have the racket being vertically oriented during the takeback?
Click to expand...
Are you studying Sinner's forehand, in clear high speed videos, and copying his racket flip?

Have you observed how tilted closed the tilt of his racket face is at impact? (actually immediately before impact to avoid any impact tilts)

Do you notice that he hits flatter than most ATP top spin drives?

For reference, here is Djokovic's top spin drive with a flip.
To single frame on Youtube, stop video, go full screen, and use the period & comma keys.

Note- 'Closed' here means that the highest edge of the racket is most forward.
 
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ConcreteCourtWinner said:
Oh wow, hadn't thought about taking a look at Humbert, but you're right. From a rec player standpoint thats a great fh to look into, its simpler but obviously works
Click to expand...
Watch latest vid losing to Diallo just narrowly cause of the serve pace difference
They both swing H22s and crush it from every part of the court but Diallos FH
is also simple just less concise yet talented kid improving or becoming patient!.

just to point out.....
Their racquets seem be high ra rated to get so much pop and could also be
possible for non-pros by using lower ra60 racquets like Ezones or OS sticks.
Hard to replicate using older smaller headed soft sticks, H22 are not retail.
 
onehandbh said:
Please post a video showing you hitting several different types of forehands
Click to expand...
This is a funny request to ballguy.

This ballguy couldn't keep himself more anonymous than this, and it makes sense cuz it'd be easy for him to snipe others or post negatively about them.
 
user92626 said:
This is a funny request to ballguy.

This ballguy couldn't keep himself more anonymous than this, and it makes sense cuz it'd be easy for him to snipe others or post negatively about them.
Click to expand...
The truth is, I’m not going to entertain someone because of their ignorance. What I said I could do is no different than saying I could hit a forehand with a 39 degree open stance, then 40 degree open stance, then 41 degree open stance three shots in a row. It would be ridiculous for me to go out and video myself to prove it.
 
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ballmachineguy said:
The truth is, I’m not going to entertain someone because of their ignorance. What I said I could do is no different than saying I could hit a forehand with a 39 degree open stance, then 40 degree open stance, then 41 degree open stance three shots in a row. It would be ridiculous for me to go out and video myself to prove it.
Click to expand...

u meant '.........entertain some critics.............' n seen quite a lot ppl's vid here inviting 'critics' for advices w/ the intention of further improvement rather than showing off tbh very few stupid1s'd do w/ dat intention as more>enough vids of top atp-ers' online already lololol8-B8-B8-B8-B8-B8-B8-B8-B8-B8-B.........

for most ppl in here or out there ever declining mil n mil, ofc excl only a few 000s pro atp/wta tourers n real coaches etc who'r $livelihooding it, 99.99% so called 'tennisors'd b supposedly enjoy the ever wonderful therapeutical/therabeautiful sport to generate more>enough dopamine but instead causing sososo much miserable mental/physical injuries:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D.........

wonder why sososo many ppl+courts'v got pickled:?)):-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D..........
 
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ballmachineguy said:
The truth is, I’m not going to entertain someone because of their ignorance. What I said I could do is no different than saying I could hit a forehand with a 39 degree open stance, then 40 degree open stance, then 41 degree open stance three shots in a row. It would be ridiculous for me to go out and video myself to prove it.
Click to expand...
Smoke and mirrors.

The truth is you're ignorant in tennis -- but not as bad as your ignorance in basic communication and interactions.

You know, you can boost your ego by b.s.ing like many people and you wouldn't run into issues if you didn't include putting down others, right?
 
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