Discussing the player of the year award

I don’t know why the people on this forum - and only the forums - like to punish people for going deeper in tournaments.

A Final loss will always be worth more than SF. Ditto SF over QF. So on and so forth. It is only the grumpnut tennis fans that do this thankfully, not the players and the ATP.

I’m a diehard Fed fan and every loss he ever had in a Final is worth more to me than him never making it there. By the same logic I can’t deny Nadal’s had the better year: 2 slams with a third F. And all the various runs in tournaments through the year.

I have my issues with the ranking system and point distributions but until there’s a better metric out there for determining how a player performed through the year it’s where I stand.
 
GaryRoy2017 said:
We are talking who the no.1 player is and that is Nadal. Your arguments don't make sense and are contradictory.

That is why the ATP introduced the race! You can't change the rule sim afraid. Just congratulate Rafa and lick your wounds and look forward to 2018. Federer had a brilliant year btw so it's not the disaster a lot of his fans seem to think it has been. I can't understand all the angst on here. Federer had two majors it's been great for him! Just Nadal was a bit better.
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Nadal is deserved number one as he has most points that’s how t works. Also he has the same number of slams as number 2 player so it’s fine. If Nadal has more points but less slams then it would be different and WTA scenario. Not debating that. Fed is the better player by a mile though this year. If he goes 5-0 against Rafa as well you better believe Nadal will have a sense of hollowness in his victory and will be a weak number 1 - I.e less titles and can’t break let alone beat number two player

In summary Nadal is absolutely deserved number on. No debate. He’s just a weak number 1 And non dominant number 1. How can a player miss an entire chunk of the calendar and still be chasing number 1 with Rafa. And rafas competition is literally a 36 year old guy with back problems. Literally that’s it. No other cometion. Nadal should have 15,000 points and CYGS in this field it’s a literal joke. Makes a mockery of vamps brigade talking about weak eras if Nadal was in this era blah blah NO HE WOULDNT WIN SQUAT MKRE IN ANY ERA AS LEOVED BY 2017
 
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peakin11mugs said:
Nadal is deserved number one as he has most points that’s how t works. Also he has the same number of slams as number 2 player so it’s fine. If Nadal has more points but less slams then it would be different and WTA scenario. Not debating that. Fed is the better player by a mile though this year. If he goes 5-0 against Rafa as well you better believe Nadal will have a sense of hollowness in his victory and will be a weak number 1 - I.e less titles and can’t break let alone beat number two player

In summary Nadal is absolutely deserved number on. No debate. He’s just a weak number 1. How can a player miss an entire chunk of the calendar and still be chasing number 1 with Rafa. And rafas competition is literally a 36 year old guy with back problems. Literally that’s it. No other cometion. Nadal should have 15,000 points and CYGS in this field it’s a literal joke. Makes a mockery of vamps brigade talking about weak eras if Nadal was in this era blah blah NO HE WOULDNT WIN SQUAT MKRE IN ANY ERA AS LEOVED BY 2017
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Bit of a slippery slope using the old weak field argument. By this very argument Djokovic’s accomplishments the past few years can be questioned - gimp knee Nadal and bad back Federray - were the only things in his path.

Let’s just let the players have their just dues. Nadal and Fed have both had amazing years. Personally speaking I’m in the Fedal camp, not the Djokorray one so it’s been nice after the tough 2013~2016 ones.
 
Hydrocella said:
Bit of a slippery slope using the old weak field argument. By this very argument Djokovic’s accomplishments the past few years can be questioned - gimp knee Nadal and bad back Federray - were the only things in his path.

Let’s just let the players have their just dues. Nadal and Fed have both had amazing years. Personally speaking I’m in the Fedal camp, not the Djokorray one so it’s been nice after the tough 2013~2016 ones.
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Weak strong is a matter of debate. What’s clear is nadal deserves number 1 and is a non dominant and overall weak number 1 this year. When the number 2 could literally overtake the number 1 by playing an extra bunch of 250 tournaments even after missing a QUARTER of the year you better believe you’re not a dominant number 1
 
Player of the Year should be the player who has been the most consistent and dominant throughout the year. In most cases, I would go with the rankings and I don't see any reason why Federer should get it ahead of Nadal in 2017. They both have 2 slams but Nadal has 1 extra slam final. If Federer wins WTF, which is likely to happen, it will make it closer, but I still think Nadal deserves it this year even then.
 
octobrina10 said:
What's the point of discussing a non-existent award? :rolleyes:
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Because it’s tennis - have you seen that 300 page hold/absorb the ball thread? We focus on the most minuscule things. That’s what we tennis people do.
 
chjtennis said:
Player of the Year should be the player who has been the most consistent and dominant throughout the year.
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I agree, which is why I think Federer more deserves POTY. At the slams/Masters, 7 tournaments played/6 finals made/5 titles won is more consistent/dominant than 12 tournaments played/7 finals made/4 titles won. Nadal's reward for playing more tournaments is the deserved YE#1.
 
GaryRoy2017 said:
Hmmm h2h suddenly a factor? Not helping Federers cause in GOAT debate is it really. Still a massive 23-15 lead to Nadal.

Player of the year is always the YE1. That's why they introduced the race!
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I don't think that's so - on either count. And I believe it has happened before that POTY has been different from YE#1
 
TMF said:
List of ATP Player of the Year award since 1975

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATP_World_Tour_Awards#Player_of_the_Year
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The information on Wikipedia is incorrect.

The correct name of the ATP award (trophy) is:
ATP World Tour No. 1 Presented by Emirates: The player who ends the year as World No. 1 in the Emirates ATP Rankings.
http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/atp-awards-2017-categories-nominees
You can see the trophy's name in this picture:
1200500_01.jpg
 
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Chanwan said:
If Fed wins the WTF and Rafa doesn't win Paris, Fed's my player of the year.
- best winning percentage by f ar
- best record vs. the top-10 by far (a win at the WTF would take him to 16-1 or 15-2 if my count is right)
- most titles
- most big titles
- a dominant h2h vs. his closest rival
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I Agree! For me now, Federer is the player of the year, especially considering his age and H-H VS Rafa. Till now, the Rafa fans have always claimed that his H-H advantage over Roger made him Roger's superior. Now, for this year, that does not seem to matter.
 
thrust said:
I Agree! For me now, Federer is the player of the year, especially considering his age and H-H VS Rafa. Till now, the Rafa fans have always claimed that his H-H advantage over Roger made him Roger's superior. Now, for this year, that does not seem to matter.
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I don't think his age plays into who's been the best player. It's more impressive what he's doing given his age, but it shouldn't factor in to this.
As for h2h when 2 players have more or less equal results, I think it's natural to factor it somewhat. But it's still not the end all and be all.
 
octobrina10 said:
What's the point of discussing a non-existent award? :rolleyes:
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Oh FHS, you might want to stop baying at moon. Both in men's and women's tennis, the award from ITF, called the Word Champion, is regularly and familiarly referred to as POTY - Player of the Year
 
H_Richardson said:
I would prefer Federer's title haul but Nadal deservedly has the most ranking points which indicates he was the best player of the year.
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Think of all the WTA "number 1's" that had the most ranking points but were clearly NOT the best player.

most points ≠ best
 
pame said:
I stand corrected, but isn't it the same type of award as the ITF? But I suspect you will continue to nitpick the darned thing to death, and at the end of the day, most people will still talk about POTY. Seems you're causing yourself needless discomfiture...
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The ITF names a World Champion based on performances throughout the year, emphasising the Grand Slam tournaments, and also considering team events such as the Davis Cup and Fed Cup.
 
I don't understand the question of the OP. Isn't there an annual ranking based on points?
Could the Player of the Year not be the same as the #1 at year end?
To all Federer fans (which I certainly am), please let it go.
 
Fed should get player of the year award... 4-0 against the world no.1 plus 7-title haul (and still room to grow by 2 at most). Congrats Fed!
 
Hydrocella said:
Bit of a slippery slope using the old weak field argument. By this very argument Djokovic’s accomplishments the past few years can be questioned - gimp knee Nadal and bad back Federray - were the only things in his path.

Let’s just let the players have their just dues. Nadal and Fed have both had amazing years. Personally speaking I’m in the Fedal camp, not the Djokorray one so it’s been nice after the tough 2013~2016 ones.
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Djoker's accomplishments the past few years should absolutely be questioned. We can also all agree Fed and Nadal are the beneficiaries of a weak year this year as well. Neither are nearly as good as they were 7-10 years ago.
 
E36BMWM3 said:
Fed should get player of the year award... 4-0 against the world no.1 plus 7-title haul (and still room to grow by 2 at most). Congrats Fed!
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Federer is not playing Paris, so he can only win one more title.

Nadal can win Paris and WTF also, which would give him more titles overall, with the WTF being the tie-breaker between him and Federer. Nadal also has one more additional slam final, and more masters runners up.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
And why is that then?
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Because the competition was clearly degraded, just as it is this year. You'd be nuts to compare 2017 to 2008 or 2010 or even 2013 for Nadal. Nadal was better and so was his competition. Same with Djokovic.

Nadal and Fed had some injuries, and all the other guys were just older and not quite as good.
 
thrust said:
I Agree! For me now, Federer is the player of the year, especially considering his age and H-H VS Rafa. Till now, the Rafa fans have always claimed that his H-H advantage over Roger made him Roger's superior. Now, for this year, that does not seem to matter.
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Neither did consistency used to matter. Now all of a sudden it's an argument they use :rolleyes:
 
FrontHeadlock said:
Because the competition was clearly degraded, just as it is this year. You'd be nuts to compare 2017 to 2008 or 2010 or even 2013 for Nadal. Nadal was better and so was his competition. Same with Djokovic.

Nadal and Fed had some injuries, and all the other guys were just older and not quite as good.
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Ah, the classic "Federer and Nadal weren't playing like it was 2007 so the competition was obviously weak" argument. What I wouldn't give to have a pound for every time I heard that in the last couple of years.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Ah, the classic "Federer and Nadal weren't playing like it was 2007 so the competition was obviously weak" argument. What I wouldn't give to have a pound for every time I heard that in the last couple of years.
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You hear it because it's true. Just like it's true for Federer and Nadal this year.

Not every year is created equal.
 
FrontHeadlock said:
You hear it because it's true. Just like it's true for Federer and Nadal this year.

Not every year is created equal.
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I wish Federer really had been as weak as you make him out to be in that period. I'd love Djokovic to have Cincinatti on his resume, not to mention a record 4th title in Shanghai and a couple more trophies in Dubai for good measure.
 
mike danny said:
In your view, what years have been the strongest?
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Well for starters the years where all of the Big 4 have been playing well.

The strongest period was probably 2007-2012 or so. Even by 2013 Fed was having some issues, and so I wouldn't rate Nadal's 2013 as high as his 2008 or his 2010. Djoker's 2011 was very strong as were fed's 2007 and 2009.
 
FrontHeadlock said:
Well for starters the years where all of the Big 4 have been playing well.

The strongest period was probably 2007-2012 or so. Even by 2013 Fed was having some issues, and so I wouldn't rate Nadal's 2013 as high as his 2008 or his 2010. Djoker's 2011 was very strong as were fed's 2007 and 2009.
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I agree here. The big haven't exactly been the same after 2012.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
I wish Federer really had been as weak as you make him out to be in that period. I'd love Djokovic to have Cincinatti on his resume, not to mention a record 4th title in Shanghai and a couple more trophies in Dubai for good measure.
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Will you stop with this whining. Nobody is saying Fed was a shlub, but he clearly was not as good as he was 3-7 years earlier, and neither was Nadal.

And frankly, none of the big 4 are near their best this year, nor will they be near their best next year. Their bests have all passed. They are probably a little bit overrated right now because of the lack of young talent.
 
FrontHeadlock said:
Will you stop with this whining. Nobody is saying Fed was a shlub, but he clearly was not as good as he was 3-7 years earlier, and neither was Nadal.

And frankly, none of the big 4 are near their best this year, nor will they be near their best next year.
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Why did he have to be as good as he was 3-7 years earlier? :confused:
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Why did he have to be as good as he was 3-7 years earlier? :confused:
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He didn't. Djokovic's wins were legit.

But that wasn't peak Federer he was beating like other Ultronians constantly claimed.

It's ok to enjoy some wins without saying opponent A was at his peak. That simply shows insecurity in your favorite player's wins.
 
FrontHeadlock said:
Right. And there's nothing you can really do about it, and it sorta applies equally across all of them. They've all been the beneficiaries of some weaker play to one degree or another.
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Yeah, exactly.

Next year I sort of expect the big 4 to still dominate because of the lack of young talent.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Why did he have to be as good as he was 3-7 years earlier? :confused:
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He didn't, at least not as it relates to winning titles.

But if I'm comparing one season to another, context and overall play by the tour matters. IMO Djoker 2011 beats Djoker 2015 and it's not close. 2011 was a VERY strong year.
 
FrontHeadlock said:
He didn't, at least not as it relates to winning titles.

But if I'm comparing one season to another, context and overall play by the tour matters. IMO Djoker 2011 beats Djoker 2015 and it's not close. 2011 was a VERY strong year.
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In the end though, people will mostly look at what the player won, regardless of the competitive environment. At least in the Open Era, when tennis became more global.
 
mike danny said:
He didn't. Djokovic's wins were legit.

But that wasn't peak Federer he was beating like other Ultronians constantly claimed.

It's ok to enjoy some wins without saying opponent A was at his peak. That simply shows insecurity in your favorite player's wins.
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Lol, it's funny but I really don't think along the lines of peak, prime or old Federer when he and Djokovic play each other. All I know is nothing gets his juices flowing more than when he sees Novak on the other side of the net so you'd better believe I cherish every single win my guy has over him and I don't give a rat's @rse about what's written on his birth certificate either. :D
 
thrust said:
I Agree! For me now, Federer is the player of the year, especially considering his age and H-H VS Rafa...
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Yep. This is the sum of it. If you consider age/stage of career aspects in this discussion then Federer is the player of the year by miles given he is many years past his prime. If you don't then you can argue it's Nadal, but not by much even if you do.
 
Hitman said:
...Nadal also has one more additional slam final, and more masters runners up.
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So you mean to say he's a better loser?

If the shoe fits then Nadal muppets have to wear it. For years they've been arguing all of Federer's final losses diminish his standing in greatness terms.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Ah, the classic "Federer and Nadal weren't playing like it was 2007 so the competition was obviously weak" argument. What I wouldn't give to have a pound for every time I heard that in the last couple of years.
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Djokovic deserves everything he has accomplished without a doubt imo. Djokovic, Federer and Nadal have all played in years that could be consider better or worse. But I’ll always remember the way Djokovic tore the tour apart back in 2011. Most impressive thing I’ve witnessed in tennis, except for Federer of course [emoji6]
 
In my view you can't look past Roger for player of the year. He has a perfect record against Nadal. Not to mention that he's won more large titles so far.
That's not to knock Rafa's ranking. He's been the most consistent player all year, and thus is #1. But when Rog has played he's been the best.
 
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