Dissing Mary Pierce

[slice bh compliment]

^^^

I don't think anyone at all questions Davenport's superior credentials over Pierce. I thought were discussing Pierce and Mauresmo's HOF credentials and to what degree non-tennis factors should be considered, if at all.

Truth.

The initial posters in this thread seemed to be saying why would Pierce be seen as much below Davenport. It is quite clear why Pierce's career and stock as an overall player is much below Davenport, despite their being only 1 major apart. Davenport is by a huge margin the most accomplished player ever to win only 3 slams. Pierce is at best just about average for a 2 slam winner.

Gerryscarried away bc He thought the op was dissing davenport.
Really, it was davenport on the panel dissing mary and lauding amelie.
This is really more about amelie and mary. Speaking for the op...The little bit about lindsay was just about why she would jump in on carillo and gimel's silliness. This deserves some open criticism, because those two are openly inane attention grabbers.
I admire lindsay's ball striking, but she could and should have stayed out of the fray.

 

[Gonzalito17]

Davenport did not diss Pierce but she did not defend her either when her credentials and lack there of were being discussed. She just sat there and let them do it.

 

[Vanhool]

Truth.

Gerryscarried away bc He thought the op was dissing davenport.
Really, it was davenport on the panel dissing mary and lauding amelie.
This is really more about amelie and mary. Speaking for the op...The little bit about lindsay was just about why she would jump in on carillo and gimel's silliness. This deserves some open criticism, because those two are openly inane attention grabbers.
I admire lindsay's ball striking, but she could and should have stayed out of the fray.

They were on a gossipy roll that day. It carried over into Venus' match when Mary went on one of her judgey/scoldy things about Venus using the bathroom after warmup and before the match. Lindsay piled on and they were tsk tsking over it for a while, culminating with "you'd think by her age she'd have that under control." One might say the same thing about their cattiness, but I guess we all have our issues to work through. I'd rather be a nervous piddler than a *****y busybody or a wannabe smug sorority sister.

Oh and I about died when that old closet case was giving Amelie props for coming out...has Mary ever done so? Not that I want her to...gays and lesbians have enough problems without having to explain her. I used to like her and Lindsay. I thought Mary was jovial and goofy, and Lindsay was boring but nice. When you actually listen to some of the things they say, though, they kind of sound like mean high school cheerleaders (ironic because MC and LD are the type that the mean girls in junior high would pick on). Is it a country club thing?

 

[slice bh compliment]

Great post^
I do not think it is a country club thing so much as a tennis girl thang. Frankly, Gimel revels in this sort of meangirl talk and is excellent at it. It made his career to speak ill of alize cornet all those years ago. Got in a bit of hot water, but it was his initiation. Notoriety. He is jersey gone westwood and now totally hollywood.

 

[gerrysbland]

Venus and Lindsay were never friendly. Despite that she had a worse record vs Serena than Venus, Lindsay and Serena were always friendly and Serena was always positive about Lindsay. Venus was always quite nasty towards Lindsay, especialy in the early part of their rivalry when Lindsay was regularly beating Venus. So not surprised her commentary would have some snark towards Venus as well.

Lindsay owned Pierce, and Pierce is nowhere near as accomplished as Lindsay like I said, despite having only 1 more major. So that still is probably why Lindsay felt no need to defend Mary. She probably regards Mary as a much inferior player to herself, unlike say the Williams sisters who she would grudgingly concede are her superior.

 

[slice bh compliment]

Thanks. Cool, gerry. You must know lindsay davenport personally. You are not bland at all. You seem like a tennis insider.

 

[AngieB]

Davenport has 4 YE#1s, an incredible feat

Really?

In 3 out of 4 of the four years #LindsayDavenport was #1, she failed to win a #grandslam title. #LindsayDavenport is the #epitome of a player who #majored in #minors. #LindsayDavenport did it more than any other woman of the #OpenEra. #TheQueen of #majoring in #minors. Ironically, her major rival, #MartinaHingis, #second-bested #LindsayDavenport in that regard.. Not exactly a #benchmark of #excellence throughout #tennis #history.

I blame it on poor #parenting.

#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieB​

 

[AngieB]

Oh and I about died when that old closet case was giving Amelie props for coming out...has Mary ever done so?

If #MaryPierce had given-in to one or two of the girls at least once, she would have gotten the #thumbs-up from #MaryCarillo on her ITHOF induction.

I bet when #BradGilbert took her job as #ESPN, she wanted to punch him.

#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieB​

 

[Vanhool]

If #MaryPierce had given-in to one or two of the girls at least once, she would have gotten the #thumbs-up from #MaryCarillo on her ITHOF induction.

I bet when #BradGilbert took her job as #ESPN, she wanted to punch him.

#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieB​

I meant has Carillo ever come out of the closet. I don't think she has....

Edit: I guess I don't really care if she comes out or not, I'm just being *****y myself. I can understand why she wouldn't (with her Olympics deal), and why then it would make her admire AM even more because of it. Her whole assessment of AM = HoF because of coming out in 1999 at age 19 (especially considering that BJK and MN did it much earlier and with a lot more to lose), in my opinion, is personal and a bit ridiculous. Nothing new there, she often lets her personal opinion color her comments. She just irks me sometimes with her personal attacks on players. I actually enjoy some of her gossipy little insider info, but she was basically calling Venus a cheater for using the toilet before the match and was making fun of her. I hate it when she acts like that about any player. It's one thing to point it out and let the viewers draw their own conclusions, it's another to pass judgement and scorn. Grrrrrr......

 

[Gonzalito17]

I meant has Carillo ever come out of the closet. I don't think she has....

She came out of the closet like Tarzan swingin on a damned vine! Of course she did.

 

[Ronaldo]

Really?

In 3 out of 4 of the four years #LindsayDavenport was #1, she failed to win a #grandslam title. #LindsayDavenport is the #epitome of a player who #majored in #minors. #LindsayDavenport did it more than any other woman of the #OpenEra. #TheQueen of #majoring in #minors. Ironically, her major rival, #MartinaHingis, #second-bested #LindsayDavenport in that regard.. Not exactly a #benchmark of #excellence throughout #tennis #history.

I blame it on poor #parenting.

#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieB​

Blame it all on the Williams Sisters. Did not play enough tourneys other than the Majors.

 

[gerrysbland]

Really?

In 3 out of 4 of the four years #LindsayDavenport was #1, she failed to win a #grandslam title. #LindsayDavenport is the #epitome of a player who #majored in #minors.

Yet she still has more majors than Mary Pierce. Her career is better in everyway than Mary Pierce. She also owns her in head to head, so has no reason to doubt she was always the better player. So the dismissiveness of Pierce isn't surprising. She is talking about someone she views (with valid reason) as inferior to herself.

 

[Ronaldo]

Yet she still has more majors than Mary Pierce. Her career is better in everyway than Mary Pierce. She also owns her in head to head, so has no reason to doubt she was always the better player. So the dismissiveness of Pierce isn't surprising. She is talking about someone she views (with valid reason) as inferior to herself.

If Mary Pierce is in the HoF, will Svetlana Kuznetsova get in?

 

[gerrysbland]

If Mary Pierce is in the HoF, will Svetlana Kuznetsova get in?

Kuznetova will probably get in. However Pierce is a lock to get in at some point IMO. Kuznetsova is not a lock, just a "probably". Pierce will get in first ballot (aka this year) I am sure. Kuznetsova might take more than one ballet, but will probably get in eventually.

 

[Vanhool]

Pierce will definitely get in if she changes her first name to "Peak." Peak Pierce is legendary

 

[ttwarrior1]

none of those are hall of famers

 

[Ronaldo]

none of those are hall of famers

Who are those? May be a dearth of HoFers soon.

 

[jarko111]

She didn't say much at all.The whole business caused a furore in the aussie press at the time and Mauresmo did the dignified things and refused to get dragged into the discussion.

Davenport was very vocal in her defense of Mauresmo, accusing the media of hurting a nice person.

Hingis made herself look stupid if I recall rightly.

That was how I remember it. It was not nice at all. I'm not hating. I love WTA tennis. But my memory was at the 1999 Australian Open, Hingis, I remember, and I might be way off, she told a German publication that Mauresmo might be a man. And Davenport added to it. Huge media uproar. Amelie came out. Lost the final.
It's been a long time. I don't mean to dredge it up again. I remember what I remember. And Hingis said it before the final. Maybe someone could help me search for the articles. I'm not saying that Hingis and Davenport have no love for Amelie now. Back then a lot was at stake still for their careers. It's not foolery to admit people may have been nasty to each other in the heat of the moment.
Look at Chris Evert. You'd have thought she was going to be a bigot the way she talked about BJK. And then she grew up and came to be extremely close friends with Martina. Even Chrisy joked in the BJK documentary HBO did that she did a lot of growing up "I've changed," i think she said laughing.
I'm not saying every player should make peace by befriending a gay player. But this is how it played out. If I am way way way wrong. Just ignore me.


Anyhow... the reason I have bumped this post is actually to TALK ABOUT MARY.
She is commentating for TTC. I didn't realize how beautiful her voice was. She should do a relaxation tape or something. Could fall to sleep to her commentary. In a good way.
That's all. Just wanted to say that without starting a whole new thread about it. (something I've been asked to do.. not just start new threads about every new feeling or thinking.)

 

[HarveyPitnik]

If anyone is about to diss Mary Pierce I must inform you that she was my late father's number one favorite -he referred her as "Greek Goddess"! (My father died in 1997) So if you diss her, you are a target of my father's frenzied ghost.

 

[Mainad]

Mary Pierce at the top of her form was unplayable. She wouldn't lose many games when playing that well. She rubbed some people up the wrong way, though, because of her aloof personality and game. The nickname "Queen Mary" really suited her.

She sounds a bit like Steffi Graf!

 

[Mainad]

The woman had one of the most embarrassing moments at the French Open when she couldn't speak the language of the country she was representing. Totally dedicated herself to learning the language and gaining the respect of the crowd back.

Given that her mother is French, it seems a bit strange she wasn't brought up to be bilingual especially if her parents had ambitions for her to pursue her tennis career in France!

She's a French player who won the French Open.. and you're going to keep her out of the Hall of Fame.

Exactly. If Yannick Noah got in largely for being the only Frenchman in the Open Era to win Roland Garros, what's the excuse not to admit the only Frenchwoman to do so?

 

[Mustard]

She sounds a bit like Steffi Graf!

I suppose there is a bit of that in Graf. Graf was more a ruthless winning machine, somebody who had been brought up to be a dominant tennis champion and usually delivered. Pierce was an enigma, with the most amazing talent but not backing it up all that often. But when she did back it up, she was capable of utterly crushing any opponent.

Given that her mother is French, it seems a bit strange she wasn't brought up to be bilingual especially if her parents had ambitions for her to pursue her tennis career in France!

I'm not sure if that was the plan initially. Mary Pierce has Canadian, American and French nationality, so could have represented any of them.

 

[sarmpas]

That doesn't sound like something Davenport would say.

IIRC it was a comment along the lines of playing 'half-a-man'. Hingis I believe said it first then Davenport IIRC echoed it.

 

[slice bh compliment]

^Truth^
... if i recall correctly, the davenport comment was more like, ~yes, she really plays more like a guy.~

I am no davenport fan, but i definitely remember her comment as pretty good-natured and complimentary of amelie's awesome, powerful, shotmaking, fun-to-behold style.