Djoker and Bull have a huge battle ahead

[MadariKatu]

For me a 5th USO is way bigger than a 2nd AO. Nadal tying Sampras Federer and Connors at the USO would just be epic. If Medvedev or Tsitsipas win AO it will be far harder for Rafa but in NY with a full stadium Rafa has always played way above his standard HC level.

I find that argument a bit weird. He'd be standing alone as a 2x winner of each grand slam. Even if he won wimbledon, he'd be standing alone as the only 3x winner in each surface. I consider those to be much bigger than tying Sampras, Federer and Connors at the us open specifically.

 

[NAS]

Race is over , more or less Rafa has won it, now move on

 

[MadariKatu]

Disagree. Over BO5 I think Djokovic still clear favourite at 3/4 slams. Only injury can stop the BOAT.

He might be favorite, but saying he's the clear favorite in Wimbledon when he saved match points last time and won 10-8 in the 5th the previous one might be a bit of a stretch (that was the semis, but Kevin Anderson wasn't beating anyone after that massacre SF against Isner). Same in the US open, where he won once in the last 5 years...
I mean, he still is arguably the favorite, but clear favorite would be saying too much imho.

About only injury stopping him, Thiem nearly stopped him last year. If he didn't it was because he started a bit nervous, so a confident, well playing youngster could stop him

 

[zvelf]

Wimbledon is his best chance but do not rule out Federer at W

What? Federer is not winning Wimbledon near age 40 after a year of no match play. He's never winning another major again. Federer already has losing head-to-heads against Thiem, Zverev, and Rublev and he'll be coming back to face a vastly improved Medvedev and a better Tsitsipas against whom he's 2-2. In other words, as bad as they are on grass, Federer has a 50% chance at best getting past any one of them, much less several. And even if he did, he has no chance against Djokovic at Wimbledon now.

 

[mike danny]

What? Federer is not winning Wimbledon near age 40 after a year of no match play. He's never winning another major again. Federer already has losing head-to-heads against Thiem, Zverev, and Rublev and he'll be coming back to face a vastly improved Medvedev and a better Tsitsipas against whom he's 2-2. In other words, as bad as they are on grass, Federer has a 50% chance at best getting past any one of them, much less several. And even if he did, he has no chance against Djokovic at Wimbledon now.

Just one single point would have changed your tune.

 

[NoleIsBoat]

He might be favorite, but saying he's the clear favorite in Wimbledon when he saved match points last time and won 10-8 in the 5th the previous one might be a bit of a stretch (that was the semis, but Kevin Anderson wasn't beating anyone after that massacre SF against Isner). Same in the US open, where he won once in the last 5 years...
I mean, he still is arguably the favorite, but clear favorite would be saying too much imho.

About only injury stopping him, Thiem nearly stopped him last year. If he didn't it was because he started a bit nervous, so a confident, well playing youngster could stop him

Wimbledon->
2018 SF - Nadal has declined a little since then but Djokovic serve is even better and return just as good
2019 F - Federer had another knee surgery and will be almost 40 when he plays the next one. Doubt he will be as good as 2019
2020 - heavy favourite, robbed of chance to win

USO->
2016 - injured
2017 - injured
2018 - win
2019 - injured
2020 - freak accident

If Djokovic is on form, he is clear USO favourite.

 

[zvelf]

Just one single point would have changed your tune.

NOW is 2 years later and the decline between a 37-year old and a 39-year old athlete is far larger than between a 32-year old and 34-year old.

 

[MeatTornado]

Remember when Tsitsipas beat Federer to make the SF and then took 2 years to get back to that stage? I remember.

Remember when Thiem finally won a major and that was going to unlock everything for him, only to crash out of the next 2 slams? I remember.

Remember when Medvedev fought hard in that USO match against Rafa and we're still waiting for him to make another final? I remember.

Remember when 2018 was going to be the year of Zverev? I remember. And then 2019 was going to be his year...


But by all means, let's pencil these guys in for every semi like they're peak Big 4 in action.

 

[MichaelNadal]

USO->
2016 - injured
2017 - injured
2018 - win
2019 - injured
2020 - freak accident

If Djokovic is on form, he is clear USO favourite.

 

[Beckerserve]

What? Federer is not winning Wimbledon near age 40 after a year of no match play. He's never winning another major again. Federer already has losing head-to-heads against Thiem, Zverev, and Rublev and he'll be coming back to face a vastly improved Medvedev and a better Tsitsipas against whom he's 2-2. In other words, as bad as they are on grass, Federer has a 50% chance at best getting past any one of them, much less several. And even if he did, he has no chance against Djokovic at Wimbledon now.

Djokovic is not the player he was. federer if fit will cream him at wimbledon. Nobody can play well on grass bar the big 3.

 

[Beckerserve]

I find that argument a bit weird. He'd be standing alone as a 2x winner of each grand slam. Even if he won wimbledon, he'd be standing alone as the only 3x winner in each surface. I consider those to be much bigger than tying Sampras, Federer and Connors at the us open specifically.

The double career slam is meaningless. Djokovic has a golden masters. Means nothing. What matters is records. Plus the USO is more prestigious than AO.

 

[MadariKatu]

Wimbledon->
2018 SF - Nadal has declined a little since then but Djokovic serve is even better and return just as good
2019 F - Federer had another knee surgery and will be almost 40 when he plays the next one. Doubt he will be as good as 2019

USO->
2016 - injured
2017 - injured
2018 - win
2019 - injured
2020 - freak accident

If Djokovic is on form, he is clear USO favourite.

Agreed on Nadal. Federer is suposed to be recovered from surgery by now... I don't think that being 40 would be a factor (age is, but then again he's aged better than most). How well he goes back to touring again and playing tough matches certainly will.

On USO... I did forget that he'd been injured in 2019, but sounds a bit like what happens to Nadal at AO: not that I believe in curses, but the ship is slowly sailing away...

 

[ND-13]

It seems , Their slam run might come to an end sonner than we assumed .

You expected Nadal and Djokovic to keep winning even when they are past 35 ?

 

[NoleIsBoat]

You expected Nadal and Djokovic to keep winning even when they are past 35 ?

Yes. Djokovic is still playing close to prime tennis and just swept aside Zverev who is one the best nextgen.

He’s still clear favourite at 3/4 slams until about 2024 at least

 

[ND-13]

Yes. Djokovic is still playing close to prime tennis and just swept aside Zverev who is one the best nextgen.

He’s still clear favourite at 3/4 slams until about 2024 at least

Essentially that Novak still continues to be the favorite is what is "unexpected".

You would have that by now Thiem-Tsitsipas-Medvedev-Rublev-Zverev would have taken over but they haven't.

 

[zvelf]

Djokovic is not the player he was. federer if fit will cream him at wimbledon. Nobody can play well on grass bar the big 3.

You really like making absurd statements. If Djokovic is not the player he was, that applies to Federer even more so. 39-year old Federer will cream Djokovic at Wimbledon? Djokovic has beaten Fed at Wimbledon 3 out of 4 times and the only time Fed won was 9 years ago.

 

[Beckerserve]

You really like making absurd statements. If Djokovic is not the player he was, that applies to Federer even more so. 39-year old Federer will cream Djokovic at Wimbledon? Djokovic has beaten Fed at Wimbledon 3 out of 4 times and the only time Fed won was 9 years ago.

Mark my words. Federer wants payback.

 

[lim]

I feel sorry for whoever gets Neds would be draw in the future-medved then Novak back to back SF and F...That’s basically 2 finals lmao

 

[Sudacafan]

In RG?

 

[BlueB]

Next year , it will become difficult for Nadal and Djokovic to win slams because Stefanos-Daniel will start reaching every semis from now on .

Rafa /djoker will need to beat both youngsters back to back from next year onwards which will be very difficult at age 34-35 .

Stefanos-daniel are next number 1&2 in my opinion .
They are not afraid to go toe to toe with Nadal and Djokovic .
Djokodal had very difficult time with them in last 3 years .
AO 2019 Novak Daniel
USO 2019 Rafa Daniel
RG 2020 Novak Stefanos
AO 2021 Rafa Stefanos
WTF 19 & 20 .

Plus, Zverev and Thiem also pose massive threat to both Novak and Rafa . Both have huge games and can defeat Djokodal on their good days . They have done it in WTF matches and masters before .
Thiem did it in slams too .

The Quadruple of Stephan- Daniel- thiem-zverev will give hell to Djokodal in future slams .

2021 seems to be the final year where Djokodal will be favourites .

Who is Daniel? Taro?

 

[Lew II]

Djokovic likes challenges. In each one of his 17 Slam title runs he beat at least one of the three highest ranked opponents.

 

[socallefty]

Djokovic likes challenges. In each one of his 17 Slam title runs he beat at least one of the three highest ranked opponents.

Yes, but in many of his Slam losses, he lost to one of the top 3 players also like Federer, Nadal and Murray. But, I agree that he will play well in both the SF and Final at the AO as long as his injury doesn’t flare up.

 

[vex]

Next year , it will become difficult for Nadal and Djokovic to win slams because Stefanos-Daniel will start reaching every semis from now on .

Rafa /djoker will need to beat both youngsters back to back from next year onwards which will be very difficult at age 34-35 .

Stefanos-daniel are next number 1&2 in my opinion .
They are not afraid to go toe to toe with Nadal and Djokovic .
Djokodal had very difficult time with them in last 3 years .
AO 2019 Novak Daniel
USO 2019 Rafa Daniel
RG 2020 Novak Stefanos
AO 2021 Rafa Stefanos
WTF 19 & 20 .

Plus, Zverev and Thiem also pose massive threat to both Novak and Rafa . Both have huge games and can defeat Djokodal on their good days . They have done it in WTF matches and masters before .
Thiem did it in slams too .

The Quadruple of Stephan- Daniel- thiem-zverev will give hell to Djokodal in future slams .

2021 seems to be the final year where Djokodal will be favourites .

Stefanos is getting Waaaaay over hyped. He’s probably not even the third best dude in his generation considering Med/Thiem/Zvev exist.

Thiem has proven the most followed by Med then Z. Stitsipas has a lot to prove.

 

[gadge]

One thing to note is next gen are hopeless on grass.

 

[junior74]

If you search the net for "having a very difficult time",

Novak's 6-4, 6-7, 6-2, 6-3 at AO against Medvedev is the first hit.

 

[Deleted member 22147]

I love how people are ignoring the fact that Medvedev is useless on clay and seemingly useless on grass too

 

[uscwang]

Come on now.
Djokovic and Nadal have won 9 of the last 11 majors, with one cancelled, and another won by Thiem when Nadal skipped and Djokovic disqualified.
And we all saw that USO final.

The Small 4 still have a long way to go to dominate the GS in the presence of the Big 3.
Medvedev, 4R-1R-3R(2019)-SF in 2020. SF or F AO 21.
Tsitsipas, 3R-SF-1R(2019)-3R in 2020. SF or F AO 21.
Zverev, SF-4R-1R(2019)-F in 2020. QF AO 21.
Thiem, F-QF-1R(2019)-W in 2020. 4R AO 21.

I mean if you take away USO 20, the Small 4 don't have much to show.

 

[BGod]

Neither has shown me they'll leapfrog Thiem who outside of grass looks primed for long #1 reign.

 

[Texas Tennis Fan]

Marian vajda said in an interview that Djokovic had nothing left in tank for rg20 final .
It tells us that - his stamina isn't the same as before .
A tough 4-5 setter in semis will make it dificult for him to win finals from now on .

That may be true, but you forget a couple of things. Djokovic had COVID-19 and may have had some residual fatigue from that. Due to the pandemic, the schedule was crowded at the re-start, so he may have had problems due to that. Thiem admitted the same issue at RG.

Lastly, he may have had an emotional hangover with the DF AT USO.

So that is not comparable to 2021 unless he still has COVID fatigue which is less likely but possible or the season gets compressed again.

 

[Texas Tennis Fan]

For me a 5th USO is way bigger than a 2nd AO. Nadal tying Sampras Federer and Connors at the USO would just be epic. If Medvedev or Tsitsipas win AO it will be far harder for Rafa but in NY with a full stadium Rafa has always played way above his standard HC level.

That was on a slower surface that he has "played way above his standard." The surface has changed and dramatically lessened Nadal's chances there.

 

[Beckerserve]

That was on a slower surface that he has "played way above his standard." The surface has changed and dramatically lessened Nadal's chances there.

If Thiem is winning there it increases Nadals chances. All the spanish players loved it last year. Compare how they did this event

 

[Texas Tennis Fan]

Well, I don't agree they've proven tough for them in slams the last 3 years. Only Thiem did a modicum of damage in this period, the others didn't.

The Next Gen has just started causing some damage. This is the first time they've won a slam match against them.

And I prefer to see one of them win a slam before I hype them up. Yes, it was a great win for Tsitsipas, but if Djokovic still wins this event, nothing has changed, just like last year when Thiem upset Nadal.

So I may be on the hype train if Medvedev wins this AO. Not before then.

I agree with this. One of the huge advantages that the Big 3 have had is that winning seven matches of Bo5 is a lot harder than being hot for 2o3 sets. It apparently takes a mental fortitude in the later stages that the next gen has not proven yet. Imagine if Djokovic wins AO and Wimbledon and Nadal wins FO in 2021, that may really be in the heads of the younger players.

Also, as we all know, Father Time wins 100% of the time eventually. But I believe Djokovic has a good 5 years or 20 to 24 slams to still win slams. Yes, it will be harder (except maybe Wimbledon), but he will not always have to go through a next gen star from the QFs on. Look at this semi-final. Sometimes it will be like what Nadal potentially faced here with Tsitsipas, Medvedev, Djokovic but it may also be like what Djokovic has faced with Zverev, a rookie, and then possible a beaten-up finals opponent if their match goes 4-5 sets.

 

[GoldenMasters]

Don't worry Djokovic may be 33/34 on paper but physically he is 25. All will be fine.

 

[mike danny]

Don't worry Djokovic may be 33/34 on paper but physically he is 25. All will be fine.

cough FO 2020 final cough

 

[BeatlesFan]

Zed exposed Novak's level two days back in quarters..

But still lost in four sets. So Djoker’s level is still significantly superior to any of the young mugs. Nothing surprising there.

 

[maratha_warrior]

But still lost in four sets. So Djoker’s level is still significantly superior to any of the young mugs. Nothing surprising there.

Djoker is lucky to avoid Thiem here to be honest..
Imagine 4 set with raonic , then 4 set wid Zverev , possible 4-5 set with thiem in semis and maybe final wid Medvedev /Stefanos .
I don't think Djokovic stands a chance in such a case ,thats for sure no !

Also I am not sure about him , Medvedev and Stefanos have a good chance here in finals .

 

[zipplock]

https://imgur.com/a/1yfWww1