Djoker's Gluten Intolerance Test

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Dr. Cetojevic persuaded the tennis star to give up gluten by administering a simple test:

Dr Cetojevic told Djokovic to stretch out his right arm while placing his left hand on his stomach. The doctor then pushed down on Djokovic’s right arm and told him to resist the pressure. The strength Djokovic would feel in holding firm, the doctor said, was exactly what he should experience.

Next Cetojevic gave Djokovic a slice of bread. He told the bemused player not to eat it but to hold it against his stomach with his left hand while he again pushed down on his outstretched right arm. To Djokovic’s astonishment, the arm felt appreciably weaker.

It was what Cetojevic had expected. His crude test had been to discover whether Djokovic was sensitive to gluten, a protein found in wheat and other bread grains. Looking back, it was the moment when Djokovic discovered why he had suffered so many mid-match collapses in his career – and the starting point for a lifestyle change which led to his becoming world No 1 just 12 months later.

 
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onehandbh

Legend
A few years ago a friend of a friend tried a similar test on me when he was trying to sell the benefits of ionic water. The had my friend hold his arms in front of him. 90 degrees to his torso. Then he pushed down and said, "see? you're very weak. I can see you are not drinking good water."

Then he asked me to do the same thing. It was much harder to push down on my arm. (b/c I am stronger. Duh!) And he said, "you must be already drinking ionic water."
 

SystemicAnomaly

Talk Tennis Guru

The pseudoscience Force is strong with this one!

Novak, no doubt, is an extremely talented athlete. But his beliefs & philosophy are rather bizarre. He makes the numerous tics & rituals of Rafa appear quite tame in comparison.

Undoubtedly, some of the things that Novak believes & does has a very positive effect on his tennis. His yoga, workout regimen, cutting back on sugar in his diet and a number of other things have considerable merit. He may or may not have an aversion to gluten. The "belly bread test" can hardly be considered evidence of a possible intolerance or sensitivity.

He appears to be an strong anti-vaxxer but OTOH, Novak & Jelena have promoted the idea that 5G is responsible for covid outbreaks. Yesterday, in another thread, I had written about a number of other bizarre beliefs attributed to Novak in the following post:

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Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Djoker says his arm felt noticeably weaker when the bread was held against his tummy. There is no reason not to believe him. He knew nothing about gluten intolerance or this Doctor at the time. Even Djoker said it was a weird test.

Subsequent blood tests confirmed the gluten sensitivity.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Talk Tennis Guru
Djoker says his arm felt noticeably weaker when the bread was held against his tummy. There is no reason not to believe him. He knew nothing about gluten intolerance or this Doctor at the time. Even Djoker said it was a weird test.

Subsequent blood tests confirmed the gluten sensitivity.
He may very well have Celiac or a gluten sensitivity. But his reaction to the oddball test was most likely due to the power of suggestion. Not unlike the holographic Power Balance bracelet test / scam (circa 2006/07). Or the Ionic Water test mentioned previously.

 

SystemicAnomaly

Talk Tennis Guru
Djoker says his arm felt noticeably weaker when the bread was held against his tummy. There is no reason not to believe him. He knew nothing about gluten intolerance or this Doctor at the time. Even Djoker said it was a weird test.

Subsequent blood tests confirmed the gluten sensitivity.
I had tried the Power Balance test 14-15 years ago. Even as a sceptic, it appeared to me to be a convincing test -- but only after I tried the test myself. Can't explain it but, in hindsight, it was a pretty convincing trick. The holographic PB bracelets were pretty cheap at the the time and look kind of cool so I thought, "what the heck". As expected, except for being decorative, they were pretty worthless. But that test was rather convincing.

The "belly bread test" reminds me of another suspect test. The WalkFit orthotic insert stability or "balance test". This test also appears to be compelling. However, I found the product to be worthless chunks of plastic. I had tried these quite some time ago (late 1990s, I think). They may have been marketing them as WalkFit Phase 4 inserts back then. Useless. Got my money back on that one. I've talked to several people who have gotten newer versions of these inserts. Same results. Hard, very uncomfortable. Even painful.

Perhaps they are suitable for a small percentage of the population but that is not what their infomercials would have you believe. Extremely hard (plastic) and too narrow for many feet. It has customizable inserts for different arch types. But very little difference between the highest & lowest arch inserts. None were suitable or comfortable for my feet. These orthotic inserts resulted in significant discomfort & pain rather than relieving pain. Yet the test appeared to be compelling.

Circa 2001:
 
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onehandbh

Legend
Next Cetojevic gave Djokovic a slice of bread. He told the bemused player not to eat it but to hold it against his stomach with his left hand while he again pushed down on his outstretched right arm. To Djokovic’s astonishment, the arm felt appreciably weaker.
I'm bringing a slice of bread to my next tennis match. Not for me to eat but to rub it against my opponents tummy.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Talk Tennis Guru
Are you serious?

And his fans think he is not popular because he's Serbian?

Makes sense now.
I don't really know the full story. Or what might be a somewhat distorted view of his oddball beliefs. The 5G story and the other things are stuff I had seen from several sources. It seems that he's said so many crazy things that it's hard to distinguish what he actually has said and what might be an exaggeration of something he said. Apparently some of this, like the "belly bread test", came from his own book, Serve to Win. From a BBC story, the 5G thing might be something that Jelena had primarily been promoting -- while Novak supported her claims on that:

Celebrities have also fed into the speculation, including Novak Djokovic who revealed his opposition to vaccinations in April and his wife Jelena who shared a video which promoted conspiracies about 5G.
 
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norcal

Hall of Fame
And this is why athletes are not role models. I love Novak's tennis, it is genius level.
However, anyone who believes a medical condition can be diagnosed by putting a piece of bread against your stomach is 3rd world witchcraft level ignorant. Reminds me of growing up in West Africa in the late 70's and the stuff the uneducated natives believed.
 

Kralingen

Legend
I’ve gotta say anyone following Djokovic’s advice on off the court matters is either extremely one-dimensional, sheltered, or plain stupid.

Why anyone would trust a pro athlete on anything other than athletic endeavors is beyond me. All of the top players have around an average 14-year old’s education.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Talk Tennis Guru
And this is why athletes are not role models. I love Novak's tennis, it is genius level.
However, anyone who believes a medical condition can be diagnosed by putting a piece of bread against your stomach is 3rd world witchcraft level ignorant. Reminds me of growing up in West Africa in the late 70's and the stuff the uneducated natives believed.
Note: I just corrected some typos in post #12
 

SystemicAnomaly

Talk Tennis Guru
I’ve gotta say anyone following Djokovic’s advice on off the court matters is either extremely one-dimensional, sheltered, or plain stupid.

Why anyone would trust a pro athlete on anything other than athletic endeavors is beyond me. All of the top players have around an average 14-year old’s education.
Not sure that Novak would even make a good tennis coach at this point. I don't think he's analyzed his own shots to the point where he can accurately verbalize what he is doing on the court. I heard him describe his serve sometime back and it was not accurate. It sounded like he was just regurgitating some partially-accurate stuff his coaches told him as a junior player.

He's not a complete dummy tho. He is a fairly accomplished polyglot. He might even speak more languages, fluently, than Roger does. His kinesthetic intelligence and his innate analytical skills, as it applies to tennis, are quite high. He might also have some skill / aptitude for soccer & golf. Don't know if he's any good at table tennis

Novak & Boris Becker play chess together a number of times. I saw a sample of one game. Boris appeared to be playing a very aggressive, almost reckless game. But he appeared to be destroying Novak -- who must have been making some pretty bad mistakes. But not everyone is good at chess.

ND does seem quite disposed to superstition, conspiracy theories and pseudo-science. Even tho his English is pretty decent and he speaks a multitude of languages, he does not come off as articulate as someone like Federer, Roddick, Agassi, Tipseravic, Bartoli, Petkovic or Hantukova.
 

Kralingen

Legend
Not sure that Novak would even make a good tennis coach at this point. I don't think he's analyzed his own shots to the point where he can accurately verbalize what he is doing on the court. I heard him describe his serve sometime back and it was not accurate. It sounded like he was just regurgitating some partially-accurate stuff his coaches told him as a junior player.
Hm, I was agreeing with you here but this sounds a bit too harsh. He is one of the best tactical players in the history of the sport and has preternatural spatial awareness and pattern recognition. No one could be that good at returning without a lot of studying and intentional practice. I don’t think Vajda is some supreme puppet master behind the scenes programming him, I’m sure Djokovic has a clear plan of what shot patterns and strokes to play that extends beyond just intuition. I assume he can articulate them well.

I do agree about him not being the best coach though. Like in other sports, I’ve always felt that the Big 3 along with other truly elite athletes would struggle to coach a player without their innate gifts. Nadal’s strategy wouldn’t work for 99.9% of players, same with Federer’s really as it’s based on extreme outlier innate talent.

He's not a complete dummy tho. He is a fairly accomplished polyglot. He might even speak more languages, fluently, than Roger does. His kinesthetic intelligence and his innate analytical skills, as it applies to tennis, are quite high. He might also have some skill / aptitude for soccer & golf. Don't know if he's any good at table tennis

Novak & Boris Becker play chess together a number of times. I saw a sample of one game. Boris appeared to be playing a very aggressive, almost reckless game. But he appeared to be destroying Novak -- who must have been making some pretty bad mistakes. But not everyone is good at chess.

ND does seem quite disposed to superstition, conspiracy theories and pseudo-science. Even tho his English is pretty decent and he speaks a multitude of languages, he does not come off as articulate as someone like Federer, Roddick, Agassi, Tipseravic, Bartoli, Petkovic or Hantukova.
There was some poster on here saying in his native Serbian he speaks pretty plainly, not that he’s stupid or dull but doesn’t come across as more than just reasonably positive pro athlete talk. I don’t think we can really hold interviews against someone but in this way it matches up with the stuff about “wanting to learn more” about 5G and Covid and stuff. Maybe a guy whose heart is in the right place but has no chance to really do a deep dive on any subject other than tennis. His schedule must be insane.

I guess I try to go easy on these guys as I know Novak and I think Federer left home around age 12 to go play in a tennis academy and did bare minimum schoolwork. I doubt there was much reading or studying in their lives similar to Agassi. Plus Djokovic has the added dimension of growing up under Srdjan “you have been sent by God to bring glory to the Serbs” lol. Somehow don’t think there was much room for intellectual exploration and self expression in his childhood to say the least. Plus all pro tennis players are superbly gifted physically and thus built their egos and lives around tennis. For those of us who have degrees and knowledge worker jobs, most build their lives around intellectual pursuits so they can seem inferior in comparison.

So yeah I wouldn’t ever think a guy speaking 4 languages is stupid. And he clearly has incredible self discipline and memory, so as it relates to his own pursuits.

But taking their life advice from a guy who let Pepe Imaz take over his career for two years? The new age yogi-adjacent stuff? I would skip it. I heard it best summed up awhile ago, tennis players are so usually burnt out mentally and physically that they kind of defer to trusted colleagues (in Federer’s case, his agent and wife, in Nadal’s his uncle and family, in Djokovic, Pepe Imaz and his brother). I think the Adria tour was less a Djokovic anti vax rebellion and more of him receiving assurance that nothing bad would happen from a Serbian politician. Like I said these guys aren’t stupid inherently, they’re just undeveloped, great at action but not necessarily thinking.

Unfortunately despite all this, every thought that crosses an entertainer’s mind becomes a headline.. There is something horribly wrong about that.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Aah, gluten intolerance.
The ailment all of my vegetarian friends got the moment they read about it on the internet.
Vegetarians typically eat a lot of wheat and rye. So there are some people who are vegetarians AND gluten-free?
 
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cha cha

Professional
Vegetarians typically eat a lot of wheat and rye. So there are some people who are vegetarians AND mostly Gluten-free?
Oh, yes.
I once brought a girl to my grandmother, and she almost ran her out of her house having learnt about her array of dietary restrictions.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Oh, yes.
I once brought a girl to my grandmother, and she almost ran her out of her house having learnt about her array of dietary restrictions.
Djoker is also a vegetarian that cuts out gluten.

A few years ago the 17-time Grand Slam champion removed gluten from his diet, which helped him improve his stamina. Later he even cut out all forms of meat, and his grandfather claims that is the reason he looks so skinny.​

 

cha cha

Professional
Djoker is also a vegetarian that cuts out gluten.

A few years ago the 17-time Grand Slam champion removed gluten from his diet, which helped him improve his stamina. Later he even cut out all forms of meat, and his grandfather claims that is the reason he looks so skinny.​

He also does not swear.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Talk Tennis Guru
Hm, I was agreeing with you here but this sounds a bit too harsh. He is one of the best tactical players in the history of the sport and has preternatural spatial awareness and pattern recognition. No one could be that good at returning without a lot of studying and intentional practice. I don’t think Vajda is some supreme puppet master behind the scenes programming him, I’m sure Djokovic has a clear plan of what shot patterns and strokes to play that extends beyond just intuition. I assume he can articulate them well.

I do agree about him not being the best coach though. Like in other sports, I’ve always felt that the Big 3 along with other truly elite athletes would struggle to coach a player without their innate gifts. Nadal’s strategy wouldn’t work for 99.9% of players, same with Federer’s really as it’s based on extreme outlier innate talent.


There was some poster on here saying in his native Serbian he speaks pretty plainly, not that he’s stupid or dull but doesn’t come across as more than just reasonably positive pro athlete talk. I don’t think we can really hold interviews against someone but in this way it matches up with the stuff about “wanting to learn more” about 5G and Covid and stuff. Maybe a guy whose heart is in the right place but has no chance to really do a deep dive on any subject other than tennis. His schedule must be insane.

I guess I try to go easy on these guys as I know Novak and I think Federer left home around age 12 to go play in a tennis academy and did bare minimum schoolwork. I doubt there was much reading or studying in their lives similar to Agassi. Plus Djokovic has the added dimension of growing up under Srdjan “you have been sent by God to bring glory to the Serbs” lol. Somehow don’t think there was much room for intellectual exploration and self expression in his childhood to say the least. Plus all pro tennis players are superbly gifted physically and thus built their egos and lives around tennis. For those of us who have degrees and knowledge worker jobs, most build their lives around intellectual pursuits so they can seem inferior in comparison.

So yeah I wouldn’t ever think a guy speaking 4 languages is stupid. And he clearly has incredible self discipline and memory, so as it relates to his own pursuits.

But taking their life advice from a guy who let Pepe Imaz take over his career for two years? The new age yogi-adjacent stuff? I would skip it. I heard it best summed up awhile ago, tennis players are so usually burnt out mentally and physically that they kind of defer to trusted colleagues (in Federer’s case, his agent and wife, in Nadal’s his uncle and family, in Djokovic, Pepe Imaz and his brother). I think the Adria tour was less a Djokovic anti vax rebellion and more of him receiving assurance that nothing bad would happen from a Serbian politician. Like I said these guys aren’t stupid inherently, they’re just undeveloped, great at action but not necessarily thinking.

Unfortunately despite all this, every thought that crosses an entertainer’s mind becomes a headline.. There is something horribly wrong about that.
Great in-depth analysis. Agree with most of this. I kind of lumped in spatial awareness and pattern recognition with kinesthetic intelligence and analytical aptitude. But better to list those specifics as you did.

Did not mean to imply that ND had a puppet master in the background controlling everything. I'm sure that his various coaches have had a great impact in the way he plays and some of the game strategy that he employs. But, In the heat of battle, it comes down to his ability to react or problem solve.

I recall watching CiCi Bellis a couple years back -- before her long bout with wrist and elbow injuries and surgeries. Her on-court coaching breaks, on changeovers during matches, was quite interesting. Most WTA players will call in their coach so that the coach can give them input & guidance -- as to what they might be doing wrong & how they might deal with an opponent who is "owning" them.

But, with Bellis, it was quite different. When the coach came in for consultation, it was CC who is doing most of the talking. She would provide a pretty insightful commentary on how things were going and what she needed to do. She was primarily using her coach as a sounding board. Her coach pretty much agreed with her -- probably because much of this was stuff they had already discussed in practice sessions.
 
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Soul

Semi-Pro
Eh, hard to fight success. He wanted to be the worlds best tennis player likely best player of all time, and he's found the different keys to make that happen for him, even changing his diet.

I did get a chuckle recently about his spirit of the wolf story

World No. 1 Novak Djokovic Says Wolves Are His ‘Spiritual Nature Guides’ As He Pursues ‘Golden Slam’


 

Waves

Rookie
Dude is an amazing tennis player…buuut not so sure about all the hocus pocus kind of stuff. With all of the advances science has given humanity over the last 400 yrs, it’s gotta be hard to disagree with present understanding. Maybe he should watch Cosmos and take some physics/biochemistry courses…
 

SystemicAnomaly

Talk Tennis Guru
Dude is an amazing tennis player…buuut not so sure about all the hocus pocus kind of stuff. With all of the advances science has given humanity over the last 400 yrs, it’s gotta be hard to disagree with present understanding. Maybe he should watch Cosmos and take some physics/biochemistry courses…
Perhaps his Wolf Spirit Guide is knowingly feeding Novak pseudo-science disinformation.
 
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