Standaa
G.O.A.T.
fedr
Djokodal since ‘09 Madrid
- Thread starter TheFifthSet
- Start date
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TheAssassin
Legend
And it's not like we never heard about H2H stats when Nadal was doing better in that department than he is now...
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Volleying? Neither Rafa or Djokovic utilize the shot much at all, but when they do, Nadal is clearly superior. Djokovic is clearly the worst volleyer and most reluctant volleyer among any ATG.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
And it's not like we never heard about H2H stats when Nadal was doing better in that department than he is now...
Djokovic pounding Nadal into submission on a hard court nowadays is like the sun rising from the east every day, it is just another normal day on planet Earth, hardly needs to be spoken about, I mean what's the big deal?
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Djokovic pounding Nadal into submission on a hard court nowadays is like the sun rising from the east every day, it is just another normal day on planet Earth, hardly needs to be spoken about, I mean what's the big deal?
Agreed lol, who expected a Nadal win? Djokovic has been beating him comfortably on HC since 2007 Miami. (the last game of that match is epic af though)
D
Deleted member 743561
Guest
Unfiltered Hitty = the best Hitty.Djokovic pounding Nadal into submission on a hard court nowadays is like the sun rising from the east every day, it is just another normal day on planet Earth, hardly needs to be spoken about, I mean what's the big deal?
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Daniel Andrade
Hall of Fame
The change in style and strategy that led Djokovic to turn around this rivalry is amazing. Example to follow.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Lol he didn't have to change. Nadal since he's lost his speed can't challenge him on HC anymore. Same w Fed.
titoelcolombiano
Legend
and 4 of Djokovic's 6 were on hard - point?
RelentlessAttack
Hall of Fame
Nadal learned to be more consistent and efficient against the field but he never surpassed AO09/US10 level on HC again. What ultimately matters is what you can bring against the best, not the field. 2017-19 Nadal is a perfect example, as good as ever against the field, abysmal against the best competition.
People view this narrative as taking away from Nole, but actually it boosts him. Despite losing Madrid 09, by fighting Nadal so hard there he ensured that Nadal would never again reach those heights of movement/speed and rarely again be able to threaten him away from clay. Nadal had to injure himself to beat Nole, and then Nole himself improved his game to surpass Nadal a couple of years later.
The biggest thing that changed was Nadal's movement to the BH side, his BH went from being a strength in his 08-09 run to an exploitable weakness after Madrid 09.
NEW_BORN
Hall of Fame
Again, from what i've seen i would put Djokovic as even, if not slightly better than Nadal as a volleyer at this point in time.
Daniel Andrade
Hall of Fame
Djokovic started beating Nadal consistently in 2011, not yesterday
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
4/6 on hc is a completely normal distribution.
swordtennis
G.O.A.T.
Excellent stuff.
One thing too i refuse to be swayed that 2011 - 2012 was not peak hard court nadal. In fact indian wells miami uso and ao finals says he was at his damn best. Only one man stopped him. The hard court goat.
RelentlessAttack
Hall of Fame
Nadal improved tactically on HC over the years, and modified some things like court position, but like I said before, he was not at peak speed/movement in 2011-12 either. Which is fine, it is what people always said, he couldn't keep up that 05-09 style forever. But it was that speed to burn that allowed him to beat Federer at Djokovic so often in that timeframe, as he's slowed down, their technical superiority has become more and more of a problem for him.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
How does Nadal's performance in the USO final say he was at his best lul... obviously played better in 2010 and 2013, as well as Djokovic obviously playing worse in those finals so yes they never met peak-to-peak at the USO and it's a speculative debate. IW 2011 wasn't peak Nadal either, not with that serve percentage... less than 50% for the match, some goat level. Miami '11 and AO '12 were peak though, Djokovic owns both so of course his peak is better.
titoelcolombiano
Legend
Is it though? Is it much different to 5 / 7?
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic pounding Nadal into submission on a hard court nowadays is like the sun rising from the east every day, it is just another normal day on planet Earth, hardly needs to be spoken about, I mean what's the big deal?
Pretty much like Wawrinka beating Novak in a major.
titoelcolombiano
Legend
Another stat trying to detract from Rafa's greatness that can't just stand alone. There always has to be a ''since <<insert favourable date here>>'' or ''off-clay'' (for some reason excluding the second most prolific surface on tour). Or some other caveat.
King_ Zeglan12
Professional
Ohh.. That's great..
The theatres are overflowing back here
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Absolutely, spot on, or like Nadal losing to Federer anywhere when he doesn't have dirt under his feet. After a little while, it's just the norm.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
While you have a point, you do realize that this sort of stuff has been done also to detract from Federer? I am sure you have heard the since 2008, or the baby claim a couple of times among other things. Detractors often pick up on these things and start producing numbers and stats to show someone in a bad light, but understand it happens to them all, not just Nadal.
Now while there are times where the intent is not noble, there are times where you are able to see new trends and patterns emerging, which is something people look for, especially bookies when placing bets and odds, it also shows how dynamics of rivalries change.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Absolutely, spot on, or like Nadal losing to Federer anywhere when he doesn't have dirt under his feet. After a little while, it's just the norm.
Wrong.
There's dirt on the courts at Wimbledon...
RG is actually crushed brick.
Keep reaching, but it's not the norm when it only really happened in 2017. Oh and Nadal still leads the outdoor HC h2h with Rogi too btw despite those 4 losses in 2017...
Still Nadal will retire with the better h2h record against Fed.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
LOL - OK...
The only one reaching here is you. This topic is about Djokovic v Nadal, it hit a nerve with you, so you bring in another player Wawrinka into it, so I did too to see your reaction. And you responded how I thought you would.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Yeah sure, I'm reaching when you're isolating HC encounters...
Hitman
Bionic Poster
On a thread that is about Djokovic v Nadal H2H....Would you have complained if I isolated the clay court encounters....I highly doubt it...
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MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
How about yall stop being ridiculous and enjoy the AO lol. People's homes are on fire and kids are starving all over the world
Hitman
Bionic Poster
How about yall stop being ridiculous and enjoy the AO lol. People's homes are on fire and kids are starving all over the world
The Rock's father Rocky Johnson passed away today. RIP. Man was a legend.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
The older I get the more I realize life is just one gigantic live-action version of Final Destination. We all need to remember more often how short time is and to live better
Hitman
Bionic Poster
The older I get the more I realize life is just one gigantic live-action version of Final Destination. We all need to remember more often how short time is and to live better
Reminds me of a classic Rocky quote -
"The older I get, the more things I leave behind. That's life."
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Nadal is better than Djokovic not only on clay, but also at the US Open. Nadal has more US Open titles than Djokovic, Nadal has 4, Djokovic 3. And yes, Nadal leads Djokovic 9-6 in the H2H in Slams, but that it not an advantage gained exclusively from 1/4 Slams. Nadal also leads Djokovic 2-1 at the US Open.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
I wanna die in my sleep lol, literally every other way is gross :/
Will prob watch Rocky II this week
Easily the best training montage to me
#IconicMore heart in these 6 minutes than some entire cities lol
Hitman
Bionic Poster
I wanna die in my sleep lol, literally every other way is gross :/
Will prob watch Rocky II this week
Easily the best training montage to me
I would be OK with sitting on the beach watching my last sunset as I die. Kind of how I grew up.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Lol, the US Open is only one tournament. You're not seriously suggesting that Nadal is a better hard court player than Djokovic, are you?
Sport
G.O.A.T.
No, I said specifically at the US Open and the Canadian Open.Lol, the US Open is only one tournament. You're not seriously suggesting that Nadal is a better hard court player than Djokovic, are you?
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MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Lol, the US Open is only one tournament. You're not seriously suggesting that Nadal is a better hard court player than Djokovic, are you?
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Which like I said is only one tournament. Other than the US Open and Canada, Djokovic has a superior record at every other big hard court event at Masters level and above.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
There are 2 HC slams, Nadal has more titles than Djokovic at one of those
That's all that matters you can throw rocks all day and reach but until Djokovic wins 3 more slams Nadal is considered greater.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
There are 2 HC slams, Nadal has more titles than Djokovic at one of those
Djokovic better on HC, Indoor hard, grass. Just saying. But indeed Nadal has 3 slams more.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
"You can throw rocks all day and reach but until Djokovic wins 3 more slams Nadal is considered greater. "
(and Rafa isnt done) so keep throwing out trivial stats it doesn't change the truth
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Well some, including me, would argue slams aren't the be all and end all. Djokovic has won 40 hard court tournaments at Masters level and above compared to 15 for Nadal. That seems to paint a pretty accurate picture of who the better HC player is.There are 2 HC slams, Nadal has more titles than Djokovic at one of those
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
You could discuss it all you like, the tennis media will print the story one way and it'll be the correct one
Djokovic really messed up going down to Wawa at the USO and Nadal responded to losing the AO final in the most important way he could, winning the next HC slam and getting another YE#1. He flipped the script from Sep-Dec in a way that sadly Djokovic has to respond to yet again.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
You're right. 10 >>>>> 5 it is then.
You could discuss it all you like, the tennis media will print the story one way and it'll be the correct one
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Nadal after USO 2010 was the better clay courter 5-0 at RG, the better grass courter 2-0 and the better hard courter 2-1
So the fact Djokovic has overtaken him on two of those surfaces is OK with me. And yes, Nadal is the greater player right now, he has more slams, and that is what it is.
So the fact Djokovic has overtaken him on two of those surfaces is OK with me. And yes, Nadal is the greater player right now, he has more slams, and that is what it is.
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If some 7 foot servebot had won 21 Wimbledons, you would be mocking any claims for that player to GOAThood. But whatever keeps you happy."You can throw rocks all day and reach but until Djokovic wins 3 more slams Nadal is considered greater. "
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
And here is the parrot with 2-1 at the USO right on queue. Lol. Is Nadal really better at the USO and Canada? He has more titles but is he better? He's 12-10 against the top 10 at those two tournaments while Djokovic is 21-12. Does any of Nadal's runs compare to Djokovic's 2007 Canada run or his 2011 USO run? Nadal is 2-1 at the USO by chance because if he can't win a set against Djokovic on hardcourt since 2013, no way would he have that head to head edge if he played Djokovic there again anytime in the last 6 and a half years.
what prevents the 7 foot servebot win 21 Wimbledon titles?
oh wait, that servebot so tall that doesn't even sees the tennis racket.
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