Djokovic (1) vs Nishikori (6) - 2016 Miami Open final

Winner?

  • Djokovic in 2

    Votes: 58 58.0%

  • Djokovic in 3

    Votes: 15 15.0%

  • Nishikori in 3

    Votes: 16 16.0%

  • Nishikori in 2

    Votes: 11 11.0%
  • Total voters
    100
Great match by Novak. Picked everything up a bit for the final and probably had another gear if need be. The clay is the question. Will Novak finally win the French Open?
 
kei does not have a great slice and does not have a serve that would be effective going at the body, and kei doesn't have a great net game, which is perhaps why you did not see any of that. novak would have punished the slice. novak actually tried to draw kei to the net. my point is that kei just doesn't have the game to beat this version of novak.
 
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veroniquem said:
Not my fault if the only 2 times Nishi beat Djoko, Novak happened to be down a hole. I'm the one being objective here. You, otoh, are a bona fide Djoko hater, which is such a shame because he's playing some brilliant tennis right now.
FACT: 2014 summer hard season was worst in Novak's top player career: didn't even reach quarter in his prep run to USO, worst summer showing and very uncharacteristic for him who is usually so consistent
FACT: the other Nishi win came at end of 2011 when Nole was struggling from injury and gassed from his first all out dominant season, was losing to everyone
FACT: Djoko is the superior player of the 2 (especially on hard), so if both play well, Novak wins (that is why he's leading Nishi 7-2 overall)
FACT: the fact that Djoko has a better record in Miami than Fed has nothing to do with my so-called "double standards". It has to do with the fact that Djokovic is better than Fed on medium paced surfaces (by far the superior returner) and has a better record there as well.

History of winter hard domination (ie AO/IW/MIAMI)
All 3 titles:
Djokovic: 3 times (including 2 consecutive): 2011, 2015, 2016
Federer/Agassi/Sampras: once (2006/2001/1994)

2 titles out of the 3:
Djokovic: 3 times (2008, 2012, 2014)
Fed, Agassi, Courier: twice (2004-05/ 1995-2003/ 1991-93)

And no, it's not because of "level of competition", loooooool. Novak is actually THAT good. Choke on it :p
Click to expand...

Djokovic is much better than Nishikori. I'm not saying he isn't but in that USO 2014 match Nishikori took Djokovic by surprise and was the better player.Is that so hard for you to admit? Since that USO match, Djokovic has been on high alert playing Nishikori and I doubt Nishikori will beat him in a big stage match again.

And no, I'm not a Djokovic hater, I'm just bored that there is no competition for him at the moment just like you were bored when there wasn't much competition for Federer from 2004-2007. At least Federer had Nadal but from 2014 Djokovic hasn't had anybody to challenge him. Admit the truth or you look like a crazy worshipper which is never a good look.
 
Hitman said:
Incredible to think that after Cincy little under three years ago, Nadal had 26 masters and Djokovic had 14. Since then the heavyweight champion has doubled his masters count while Nadal got just the one.
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I thought back then that Nadal will end up with 35+ and Djokovic with 25+, lol. Crazy how fast things can change.
 
dunlop_fort_knox said:
yes you essentially questioned why he didn't play better. kei does not have a great slice and does not have a serve that would be effective going at the body, and kei doesn't have a great net game, which is perhaps why you did not see any of that. novak would have punished the slice. novak acutally tried to draw kei to the net. my point is that kei just doesn't have the game to beat this version of novak.

" Why didn't Nishi try to mix up the rhythm for Novak at any point in time. No slices, hardly any approaches that weren't forced, too few body serves (which were quite effective when he hit them)."
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You're being incredibly nit picky. Yes, I raised a question as to why he didn't play better - that's what any would be arm chair analyst does post match - and mostly came up with Novak related reasons.
I also questioned his tactics as strictly going baseline to baseline vs. Novak obviously didn't work. He doesn't have a great body serve, no, but his so called corner serves were certainly not doing the job either given he won an atrocious 51 % of his first serve points. So when your usual tactics ain't doing the job, you gotta go out and try something else - it might work even worse, it might just help you take Novak a bit outside of his baseline comfort zone.

Here's the post again - please read it in its entirety and let me know whether you truly think I mainly gave "Nishi played below par" as the reason for Novak's victory.

"Well, once again Novak's opponent played below par and Novak raised his level for the final. A few thoughts

1) Novak's game doesn't allow his opponent to play their best most of the time. The depth of shot pushed Kei, who likes to take the ball inside the court, too far back to attack successfully (@RSH - Bodo was right, I guess. He doesn't have enough power from behind the baseline, but because he plays so much inside in in his other matches, I hadn't quite noticed).
2) Novak's aura wins him matches. Opponent's hits more DF's, they go for too much at inopportune moments and they hit too many shots just outside of the lines
3) Novak's aura is so big that the opponent lacks belief stepping onto court. Nishi didn't look like a man who believed much in his chances despite starting wonderful in the first game. He could hardly hold serve throughout the match, his body language was slumping in the start of the second and he got broken and was DF'ing and spraying errors at the worst moments.
4) I would love for Novak to let loose earlier in the matches and play with the kind of freedom and abandon he did in the second part of the second set. He can hit stunning winners, when he's going for them. He just rarely needs to.
5) Novak's in a league of his own right now. Only Wawa outside of grass and Fed on fast surfaces can truly take the game to him these days and belief in their own chances to do so. Everyone else has to hope for a bad day at the office for Novak - and even then, he still wins 90-95 % of the time :D

p.s. Why didn't Nishi try to mix up the rhythm for Novak at any point in time? No slices, hardly any approaches that weren't forced, too few body serves (which were quite effective when he hit them). Novak's loves baseline rhythm - surely, Nishi knows that by now, no?"

While you're at it, you might as well read this one too:
Chanwan said:
Congrats to Novak + fans. He found his by far best tennis this week for the final. Best returning, best serving and fewer unforced errors - and in the 2nd half of the 2nd, he let loose and started ripping some jaw-dropping winners as well.

Well, at least I didn't pick Nishi in 2 :oops::eek:
Click to expand...
 
Levi_Ackerman said:
Can it be denied that Djokovic is about as close to perfect as a tennis player can get?
Click to expand...
Yes he is. And he raised his level for final as usual!
Big time history made in this final:
- Most Miami titles: 6 (tie with Agassi)
- Most Master titles: 28
- 7th tier 1 title in a row (includes 2 slams, 4 masters + WTF)
- Record breaking 3rd AO/IW/Miami combo

Additional thoughts about the final:
- As foreseen, Nishi's relative weak serving hurt him big time against a returner of Djoko's caliber. In terms of return game, Nishi gets outclassed because Djoko can do everything a bit or a lot better but Djoko can go another gear on the serve, which Nishi cannot.
- Extraordinary how Djoko has developed the ability to break back right away after getting broken, regardless of opponent. How special is that? Clockwork and very demoralizing for opponents. Tactical brilliance
- Myth: the only reason Djoko wins is because all opponents are mental midgets. Nope. He is feared of course but that's only a part of it. It is also due to Djoko's superior execution. He's able to combine: taking ball super early, extreme accuracy on deep shots, extreme consistency in rallies, upping the aggression at crucial times, outstanding movement and anticipation. All that combined causes opponents to go for too much and miss more. STOP BLAMING THE OPPOSITION AND GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE
- Nishi ALWAYS gets injured. How annoying is that? What's wrong with his conditioning?
- Novak won Miami IN STRAIGHT SETS while DFing like a maniac. Such is his margin over the field overall, and so formidable is his return game, which is definitely the best in tennis history (except on clay)
- Nishi looked yummy cute during trophy ceremony :cool:
- Novak is also #1 for sense of humor: "I hope you won't get me next time", ha ha ha, genius :D

Imo, the surface where Novak will show decline first is clay. So rabid haters should not despair and hang in there ;) In the meantime, they should bow down to the heavyweight champion and undisputed master of the universe, who even managed to vanquish the GURU's indomitable force. What a man, what a hero :)
 
So, the only guy to have taken a set off Djokovic in the last three weeks is - Bjorn Fratangelo. #MiamiOpen


No words that's means he is the real number 2 and the main rival of djokovic in majors :o
 
D.Nalby12 said:
I heard Djokovic is playing in Madrid, bad decision I would say. This year is crucial for him. He now holds Masters record so time to grab more slams which needs smart scheduling.
Click to expand...

LOL, whom are you kidding? He has no competition at the FO unless Wawrinka of last year decides to show up which I doubt. It's in the bag for him. He'll win his FO this year unless he gets ill or injured.
 
veroniquem said:
Yes he is. And he raised his level for final as usual!
Big time history made in this final:
- Most Miami titles: 6 (tie with Agassi)
- Most Master titles: 28
- 7th tier 1 title in a row (includes 1 slam, 4 masters + WTF)
- Record breaking 3rd AO/IW/Miami combo

Additional thoughts about the final:
- As foreseen, Nishi's relative weak serving hurt him big time against a returner of Djoko's caliber. In terms of return game, Nishi gets outclassed because Djoko can do everything a bit or a lot better but Djoko can go another gear on the serve, which Nishi cannot.
- Extraordinary how Djoko has developed the ability to break back right away after getting broken, regardless of opponent. How special is that? Clockwork and very demoralizing for opponents. Tactical brilliance
- Myth: the only reason Djoko wins is because all opponents are mental midgets. Nope. He is feared of course but that's only a part of it. It is also due to Djoko's superior execution. He's able to combine: taking ball super early, extreme accuracy on deep shots, extreme consistency in rallies, upping the aggression at crucial times, outstanding movement and anticipation. All that combined causes opponents to go for too much and miss more. STOP BLAMING THE OPPOSITION AND GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE
- Nishi ALWAYS gets injured. How annoying is that? What's wrong with his conditioning?
- Novak won Miami IN STRAIGHT SETS while DFing like a maniac. Such is his margin over the field overall, and so formidable is his return game, which is definitely the best in tennis history (except on clay)
- Nishi looked yummy cute during trophy ceremony :cool:
- Novak is also #1 for sense of humor: "I hope you won't get me next time", ha ha ha, genius :D

Imo, the surface where Novak will show decline first is clay. So rabid haters should not despair and hang in there ;) In the meantime, they should bow down to the heavyweight champion and undisputed master of the universe, who even managed to vanquish the GURU's indomitable force. What a man, what a hero :)
Click to expand...

Lol Vero. His sequence contains TWO slams. :)
 
Chanwan said:
He's a perfectionist, comes with the territory. But yeah, it doesn't look good at a time, where the match is basically over.

Congrats to Novak + fans. He found his by far best tennis this week for the final. Best returning, best serving and fewer unforced errors - and in the 2nd half of the 2nd, he let loose and started ripping some jaw-dropping winners as well.

Well, at least I didn't pick Nishi in 2 :oops::eek:
Click to expand...

Sure, but it undermines his otherwise infectious and folksy charm.

I saw some of your other posts which were well drafted. I would just say that Thiem really pushed and got him out of his comfort zone in a way neither of his next three opponents did.

I can only assume that against Fratangelo, that Djokovic had an off day.
 
So, what's the final verdict to those who just cannot force themselves to 'like' Djokovic?

The Death Penalty?

I'm taking. If only for the obnoxiousnes of a certain part of his fandom.
 
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Reactions: gn
dunlop_fort_knox said:
25% of tt'ers voted that kei would win. I did not realize he had such a large family?
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As I said, I'm just glad I didn't pick Nishi in 2 :oops::oops:
Chanwan said:
:eek::eek:
If I didn't know their names, their records, their previous matches vs. one another, but just had to make my decision based on performances this week, I would actually pick Nishi.

But given recent h2h, Djokovic' big match experience and temperament, Djokovic's ability to raise his level to whatever is needed to win and Djoko's opponents' abilities to miss 14 BP's of out 14 (Novak gifted one on a DF) and miss the easiest of overheads and just plain being scared to win vs. the unbeatable no. 1, it's both hard and foolish to pick against him.

Nevertheless – in this match thread, I'll be foolish. Djoko's serve's been a mess all week. He might get it back with a day's rest, but regardless of whether he does or doesn't, the Ninja – recently receiving invaluable lessons from the guru – will be all over it.

The pick: Nishi in 3.

Fun facts: Nishi is actually a very impressive 11-5 in finals and enjoys the greatest ever record in deciding sets with a 77,7 % win percentage (this year, he's a mere 2-2 though).
And no, I don't truly believe my pick, but I do think he's got a much better chance than I thought any of Djoko's previous victims would have had.
Click to expand...
 
veroniquem said:
Yes he is. And he raised his level for final as usual!
Big time history made in this final:
- Most Miami titles: 6 (tie with Agassi)
- Most Master titles: 28
- 7th tier 1 title in a row (includes 2 slams, 4 masters + WTF)
- Record breaking 3rd AO/IW/Miami combo

Additional thoughts about the final:
- As foreseen, Nishi's relative weak serving hurt him big time against a returner of Djoko's caliber. In terms of return game, Nishi gets outclassed because Djoko can do everything a bit or a lot better but Djoko can go another gear on the serve, which Nishi cannot.
- Extraordinary how Djoko has developed the ability to break back right away after getting broken, regardless of opponent. How special is that? Clockwork and very demoralizing for opponents. Tactical brilliance
- Myth: the only reason Djoko wins is because all opponents are mental midgets. Nope. He is feared of course but that's only a part of it. It is also due to Djoko's superior execution. He's able to combine: taking ball super early, extreme accuracy on deep shots, extreme consistency in rallies, upping the aggression at crucial times, outstanding movement and anticipation. All that combined causes opponents to go for too much and miss more. STOP BLAMING THE OPPOSITION AND GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE
- Nishi ALWAYS gets injured. How annoying is that? What's wrong with his conditioning?
- Novak won Miami IN STRAIGHT SETS while DFing like a maniac. Such is his margin over the field overall, and so formidable is his return game, which is definitely the best in tennis history (except on clay)
- Nishi looked yummy cute during trophy ceremony :cool:
- Novak is also #1 for sense of humor: "I hope you won't get me next time", ha ha ha, genius :D

Imo, the surface where Novak will show decline first is clay. So rabid haters should not despair and hang in there ;) In the meantime, they should bow down to the heavyweight champion and undisputed master of the universe, who even managed to vanquish the GURU's indomitable force. What a man, what a hero :)
Click to expand...

Ha ha. You know the truth deep down and that is why you are yelling in CAPS to try and convince anybody without brain cells. Djokovic is very good but it is also true he has nobody in the way of competition. Either they aren't good enough or are mental midgets. In 2011, Djokovic who had one of the greatest years ever, HAD competition as Nadal, Murray and even Federer were still able to give him some grief. But from 2014, Djokovic hasn't had any main rivals. Get real please.
 
i mostly agree with you. I think fed unfortunately, it is going to be hard for him to get back to a level where he can challenge nd. It's true novak does not like super fast courts, but there is really only one of those that is worth anything these days (cinci) and we don't know how he is going to prepare for new york. and wawa is a total crap shoot. you never know what you will get with him. once in a blue moon he plays well enough to beat the best. does he 1 more in him? I don't think so.
 
YetAnotherFedFan said:
Sure, but it undermines his otherwise infectious and folksy charm.

I saw some of your other posts which were well drafted. I would just say that Thiem really pushed and got him out of his comfort zone in a way neither of his next three opponents did.

I can only assume that against Fratangelo, that Djokovic had an off day. agreed
Click to expand...
Thanks.
And agreed, it does, but he can't help it. He's perfectionist and he demands perfection from himself. Anything less and he can get very annoyed.
Not his best trait, but somewhat necessary if you want to be and stay the king.
Hitman said:
Lol Vero. His sequence contains TWO slams. :)
Click to expand...
Fun fact, Djoko's now won as many Masters as Pete (11) and Andre (17) put together! :eek::eek::eek:
cc0509 said:
Ha ha. You know the truth deep down and that is why you are yelling in CAPS to try and convince anybody without brain cells. Djokovic is very good but it is also true he has nobody in the way of competition. Either they aren't good enough or are mental midgets. In 2011, Djokovic who had one of the greatest years ever, HAD competition as Nadal, Murray and even Federer were still able to give him some grief. But from 2014, Djokovic hasn't had any main rivals. Get real please.
Click to expand...
Agreed, @veroniquem did make a very objective post for her lofty standards, but she went a bit overboard with the competition part.:D
 
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dunlop_fort_knox said:
i mostly agree with you. I think fed unfortunately, it is going to be hard for him to get back to a level where he can challenge nd. It's true novak does not like super fast courts, but there is really only one of those that is worth anything these days (cinci) and we don't know how he is going to prepare for new york. and wawa is a total crap shoot. you never know what you will get with him. once in a blue moon he plays well enough to beat the best. does he 1 more in him? I don't think so.
Click to expand...
Cheers, yeah - it ain't gonna be easy getting back from surgery at almost 35. We really don't know what level he'll be able to get back to. He did push him pretty good at the US Open too though and had conditions been more favorable to him (warmer and less damp), who knows if he could have done even more.
I def. think Wawa still have some good runs in him and he does show up more than once a year as well.
His last 10 slam runs: SF, W, 1st R, QF, QF, SF, W, QF, SF, 4th round (after being ill for 10 days). Whether it'll be enough to actually beat Novak is another matter, but that have gone 5 sets in all of their 2013-2015 slam matches except the FO which Wawa won in 4.

@YetAnotherFedFan - I didn't get back to you on the Thiem-part, but I agree. Def. the opponent Djoko had the most trouble with, properly because of his spin and weight of shot + the big first serve. A mini-Wawa in a way.
 
It was not sunny, hot and humid so Nishikori had no chance.

It was cloudy, and not very hot nor humid which was hugely beneficial to Djokovic, knowing how he wilts in the heat and humidity.
 
Hitman said:
Incredible to think that after Cincy little under three years ago, Nadal had 26 masters and Djokovic had 14. Since then the heavyweight champion has doubled his masters count while Nadal got just the one.
Click to expand...

Mind boggling.

''Is this real? WOOOO Is this tennis? Yes, Ric, that is correct. ''Then it is time to celebrate, Mean Petchey, it is time to break out the champagne.WOOOO Go on, Novak. Continue to walk that aisle and continue to break those records, Brother. We are gonna party tonight. WOOO''

tumblr_o4vzz8nY7x1vn5u0to1_500.gif
 
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What I saw was in the second set Kei running like a chicken with no head trying to get some points and looking pretty beat up. He did get some points and went down in relatively respectable score, but at this moment it is embarrassing for other pros how superior Djokovic is.
 
cc0509 said:
Djokovic is much better than Nishikori. I'm not saying he isn't but in that USO 2014 match Nishikori took Djokovic by surprise and was the better player.Is that so hard for you to admit? Since that USO match, Djokovic has been on high alert playing Nishikori and I doubt Nishikori will beat him in a big stage match again.
Click to expand...

I don't know that it was surprise that was crucial then. I think that it was too hot for Djokovic. If they play in a best of five set match in such hot conditions again, Nishikori could have an outside chance.
 
Rina said:
What I saw was in the second set Kei running like a chicken with no head trying to get some points and looking pretty beat up. He did get some points and went down in relatively respectable score, but at this moment it is embarrassing for other pros how superior Djokovic is.
Click to expand...

To be fair, that's how most of Djokovic's opponents end up looking like these days. They try to play their best against him but Djokovic's superior serve, ball placement, accurate ground strokes, returning ability and all round court sense soon flummoxes them and turns them into error machines as they try to counter by going for more. It's become a well worn tale.
 
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Rina said:
What I saw was in the second set Kei running like a chicken with no head trying to get some points and looking pretty beat up. He did get some points and went down in relatively respectable score, but at this moment it is embarrassing for other pros how superior Djokovic is.
Click to expand...

what you didn't see is the below stat:

Baghdatis Nishikori 4-1

Enough said! Never understood the hype around Samuraisan.
 
La Grande said:
ORDER RESTORED, MAJASTORE NOLE (not sure what that means)
Click to expand...

I know it's probably one of THE latest replies ever in a thread like this, but just got to my attention that you are not familiar with Serbian - it's 'NOLE, MAJSTORE' as slang variant of somethin similiar to 'Nole, you're the man' if he was the plumber who just fixed leaking pipe or technician who fixed and turned on your TV/computer and it works. :) It's hard to pronounce, but sounds something like like 'my-store'. :D

Great win, though, for our 'my-stor' (without e), his level is currently somewhere between 'I want to win everything this year!' and 'Should I win everything this year?' :D
 
mickeyrs said:
I know it's probably one of THE latest replies ever in a thread like this, but just got to my attention that you are not familiar with Serbian - it's 'NOLE, MAJSTORE' as slang variant of somethin similiar to 'Nole, you're the man' if he was the plumber who just fixed leaking pipe or technician who fixed and turned on your TV/computer and it works. :) It's hard to pronounce, but sounds something like like 'my-store'. :D

Great win, though, for our 'my-stor' (without e), his level is currently somewhere between 'I want to win everything this year!' and 'Should I win everything this year?' :D
Click to expand...

Nope, not all. Just guessed based on what I remembered people saying :)
 
La Grande said:
Nice one... so Majstor or Majstore?
Click to expand...
Oh man that is hard to explain, both are correct, it all depends on the function and place of the noun in the sentence. There are 7 different ways to say. English is just too simple comparing to this. ;)
mickeyrs said:
Damn, man, don't ruin my interpretation, I just got inspiration to be more poetic than plain 'Nole, master/expert/pro' :D

Btw, change that avatar to @LeaderOfHorde's pic for this last EL round at least :p
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I need to have a person talking on the phone.
Haven't seen that pic, care to post it?
 
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil said:
No way in hell am I putting him in my avatar. :D He is ok, but no, just no.
Fingers crossed we get Laboral. ;)
Click to expand...

Ahahaha, we'll get banned for this offtopic :D

Back to the tennis, me thinks that Nole will play (and win, of course) both MC and Madrid and than finally tank Rome before sweeping it all afterwards... but I said something similar in october 2015, trying not to jinx it, fingers crossed... :D
 
mickeyrs said:
Ahahaha, we'll get banned for this offtopic :D

Back to the tennis, me thinks that Nole will play (and win, of course) both MC and Madrid and than finally tank Rome before sweeping it all afterwards... but I said something similar in october 2015, trying not to jinx it, fingers crossed... :D
Click to expand...
Lol there have been many worse off topic discussions and there were no problems, chill.
I kinda prefer the opposite ;), him winning Rome and of course FO.
 
Well, there was not much to say to Nichi's chances even before the match (let the hatred begin... :D ) but... there is/was a sense that Nole wins GS when he has adequate preparation/rest before it and that is main reason for him being dominant at AO and his 3xWimbledon because it comes after near a month of rest/prep after FO. Last year he was spent (certainly not because of he won Rome!) because of his draw and schedule in QF/SF/F but somehow I feel he would be better skipping Rome than Madrid and that 2 whole weeks of preparation for FO will finally result in winning it. Afterwards... everything is possible. :)
 
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