Djokovic 2011 vs Sinner 2024

Winner Sinner

Hall of Fame
With today's victory Sinner equals the win/loss record of what many believe was the best season of Djokovic's career, excluding 2015 for statistics.
In fact, 70-6 seasonal record, a record that Sinner could even improve (or worsen) with the upcoming Davis Cup, we'll see.
I would like to point out straight away that this is not a thread to demonstrate which of the 2 is the best season, it is clearly Djokovic's 2011 season, where apart from the statistics I will list below, it is enough just to mention his almost immaculate record of 10- 1 against Fedal to close the contest.
However, it remains significant that after the big three, someone has arrived capable of compiling a season that is at least statistically comparable, something unthinkable until recently.

Record wins/losses
Djokovic 2011= 70-6
Sinner 2024= 70-6

Tournaments won
Djokovic 2011= 10
Sinner 2024= 8

Slam
Djokovic 2011= 3
Sinner 2024 = 2

Big title
Djokovic 2011= 8
Sinner 2024= 6

Masters 1000
Djokovic 2011= 5
Sinner 2024= 3

ATP Finals
Djokovic 2011= 0
Sinner 2024 = 1

Records vs top 10
Djokovic 2011= 21-4
Sinner 2024= 16-5

Records vs top 5
Djokovic 2011= 13-4
Sinner 2024 = 11-4

Records vs top 1
Djokovic 2011= 5-0
Sinner 2024= 1-0

Highest winning streak
Djokovic 2011= 41
Sinner 2024= 16

Maximum losing streak
Djokovic 2011= 2
Sinner 2024= 1

Obviously Sinner also has something in his favor compared to Djokovic 2011, namely having won at least one set in all the seasonal matches played.

Let's say that statistically the thing that tips the scales for Djokovic in 2011 is the Wimbledon tournament which he won while Sinner stopped in the quarter-finals.
 

TheAssassin

G.O.A.T.
Statistically it's more than just Wimbledon that tips the scales for Djokovic.

Stunning season from Sinner however. Can't imagine anyone apart from a couple of players stopping him in the biggest matches next season.
 

Winner Sinner

Hall of Fame
Doesn't need a poll. Djokovic 2011.
It's not a survey, and it's not even a thread with the aim of opening a debate on which of the two seasons is the best, I know very well that it belongs to Djokovic 2011, I also underlined it in the first comment.
The comparison simply wants to demonstrate even more how incredible Sinner's 2024 was, considering that statistically it is comparable from all points of view.
 

dking68

Legend
Well, as we can see Djokovic beats him in almost every statistic. No question who was better but their domination is similar.
Djokovic 2011 wins comfortably on grass and clay.
At the USO Djo wins marginally
At the AO Djo wins comfortably
At the ATP finals, Sinner wins comfortably
 

Winner Sinner

Hall of Fame
Statistically it's more than just Wimbledon that tips the scales for Djokovic.

Stunning season from Sinner however. Can't imagine anyone apart from a couple of players stopping him in the biggest matches next season.
No, but it's the most eloquent one. If Sinner had won Wimbledon their performance in the slams would be identical, Djokovic would remain ahead in the masters 1000 but Sinner compensated with the ATP Finals, an event where the 2011 Djokovic exited the group.

So Wimbledon is the deciding factor, plus obviously superior competition which he has tamed better.
On the other hand, Sinner in 2024 had to face debilitating vicissitudes that Djokovic 2011 did not have to face.

However, for a Djokovic 2011>Sinner 2024, it should also be underlined that the Sinner 2024 is one year younger than the Djokovic 2011.
Cas permitting, I dare not imagine what he could do in 2025, the 24-year-old season which coincided with some of the best of the big three, thinking of Federer 2005, Nadal 2010 and Djokovic 2011.
 

ND-13

Legend
Achievements wise : Djokovic
level wise : Sinner

Tennis always evolves, it needs more expertise and talent to be at the equivalent spot
 

Winner Sinner

Hall of Fame
Sinner wouldn't win anything in 2011, maybe some atp 500 (if he avoids the big 3).
Of course, always mythologizing the past to the detriment of the present.
But did you see the level shown by Sinner in this tournament in Turin?

On hard surfaces Sinner 2024 would have played with anyone, then this does not mean that he would certainly have beaten Djokovic 2011 or even Federer 2006, but thinking that it would have been a walk in the park for the 2 legends is the usual specious reasoning.
The current Sinner is scary.
 

TheAssassin

G.O.A.T.
No, but it's the most eloquent one. If Sinner had won Wimbledon their performance in the slams would be identical, Djokovic would remain ahead in the masters 1000 but Sinner compensated with the ATP Finals, an event where the 2011 Djokovic exited the group.

So Wimbledon is the deciding factor, plus obviously superior competition which he has tamed better.
On the other hand, Sinner in 2024 had to face debilitating vicissitudes that Djokovic 2011 did not have to face.

However, for a Djokovic 2011>Sinner 2024, it should also be underlined that the Sinner 2024 is one year younger than the Djokovic 2011.
Cas permitting, I dare not imagine what he could do in 2025, the 24-year-old season which coincided with some of the best of the big three, thinking of Federer 2005, Nadal 2010 and Djokovic 2011.
Distribution across surfaces is what sticks out the most to me. But if Sinner can take it to the next level on other surfaces as well, he will be in a good position to have a season similar to those you mentioned. And since he narrowly lost in Paris and Wimbledon this time, it wouldn't surprise me a lot.
 

zakopinjo

Professional
Of course, always mythologizing the past to the detriment of the present.
But did you see the level shown by Sinner in this tournament in Turin?

On hard surfaces Sinner 2024 would have played with anyone, then this does not mean that he would certainly have beaten Djokovic 2011 or even Federer 2006, but thinking that it would have been a walk in the park for the 2 legends is the usual specious reasoning.
The current Sinner is scary.
Not scary at all, 0:3 score against Alcaraz...

He gets tired more than his opponent and the quality of his shot drops drastically if the match is longer and longer. He doesn't have the mental strength to take the decisive points. If the opponent plays at a similar level, the worm of doubt quickly creeps into him and he starts to make more mistakes. And dozens and dozens of other examples.

Against the members of the big 3, he would have almost no chance. They would swallow him up mentally and physically.
 

Winner Sinner

Hall of Fame
Serve rating
Djokovic 2011= 284,1
Sinner 2024= 294,9

% service game won
Djokovic 2011= 86,4%
Sinner 2024= 91,2%

Return rating
Djokovic 2011= 180,3
Sinner 2024= 157,1

% return games won
Djokovic 2011= 38,8%
Sinner 2024= 27,9%

Under pressure rating
Djokovic 2011= 252,4
Sinner 2024= 258,8
 
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Winner Sinner

Hall of Fame
Not scary at all, 0:3 score against Alcaraz...

He gets tired more than his opponent and the quality of his shot drops drastically if the match is longer and longer. He doesn't have the mental strength to take the decisive points. If the opponent plays at a similar level, the worm of doubt quickly creeps into him and he starts to make more mistakes. And dozens and dozens of other examples.

Against the members of the big 3, he would have almost no chance. They would swallow him up mentally and physically.
Take the matches with Alcaraz as a reference, all however balanced, and where Sinner, except in Indian Wells, has absolutely not fallen behind Alcaraz in the long run.
Go and watch the last 2 sets of the Roland Garros semi-final, the level was comparable.
In the fifth set, after immediately going down by a break, Sinner reacted strongly by bringing Alcaraz's serve to the advantage in the last 2 rounds, always to the advantage in those games, where the Spaniard was able to come out well by leveraging the slice serve.
 

Winner Sinner

Hall of Fame
And in any case it should also be added that Sinner showed up in precarious shape at Roland Garros due to a hip problem.
It was already incredible what he managed to do in that tournament.

We saw the best Sinner of this season between Melbourne and Miami, and between the US Open and Turin, but above all in the Miami tournaments and even more so in Turin he reached a level that would have made even the greatest suffer, including Djokovic.

Ok, here in Turin it's not like he faced players who will go down in history, but we're still talking about the number 7, 5, 4, 6 and 5 in the world that he swept away.
Impressive, something rarely seen even in the big three era.
Except that, as I was saying, some people always have this habit of mythologizing the past to the detriment of the present, consequently Messi is not comparable to Maradona, LeBron is not comparable to Jordan, Sinner is not comparable to Djokovic, in 20 years the phenomena of the moment they will not be comparable to today's phenomena, it is all a vicious circle that is endlessly renewed.
 

ND-13

Legend
It is one thing to look at titles alone. But if you look overall level, there is an argument that Sinner was better in terms of beginning to end .

Novak was absent after USO. Sinner won 2 majors, super six slam, YEC .

Nobody since Lendl had won YEC in straight sets. Best anyone could get was 4 games in a set

Sinner never failed to win a set in any match. Basically he was flawless from Jan to Nov

The losses to Med and Alcaraz at majors were very close
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
I will say what I said then

Of course Djokovic will win most , but sinner will have chance to win a few.

 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Well, as we can see Djokovic beats him in almost every statistic. No question who was better but their domination is similar.
Of course not.

Sinner hold rate is excessively high. It's fed level hold. So Djokovic doesn't beat him in every statistic.

I think sinner forehand is also better than nole 2011.

Defense backhand and return of serve is Djokovic for sure also speed and stamina.
 

JoshDragon

Hall of Fame
With today's victory Sinner equals the win/loss record of what many believe was the best season of Djokovic's career, excluding 2015 for statistics.
In fact, 70-6 seasonal record, a record that Sinner could even improve (or worsen) with the upcoming Davis Cup, we'll see.
I would like to point out straight away that this is not a thread to demonstrate which of the 2 is the best season, it is clearly Djokovic's 2011 season, where apart from the statistics I will list below, it is enough just to mention his almost immaculate record of 10- 1 against Fedal to close the contest.
However, it remains significant that after the big three, someone has arrived capable of compiling a season that is at least statistically comparable, something unthinkable until recently.

Record wins/losses
Djokovic 2011= 70-6
Sinner 2024= 70-6

Tournaments won
Djokovic 2011= 10
Sinner 2024= 8

Slam
Djokovic 2011= 3
Sinner 2024 = 2

Big title
Djokovic 2011= 8
Sinner 2024= 6

Masters 1000
Djokovic 2011= 5
Sinner 2024= 3

ATP Finals
Djokovic 2011= 0
Sinner 2024 = 1

Records vs top 10
Djokovic 2011= 21-4
Sinner 2024= 16-5

Records vs top 5
Djokovic 2011= 13-4
Sinner 2024 = 11-4

Records vs top 1
Djokovic 2011= 5-0
Sinner 2024= 1-0

Highest winning streak
Djokovic 2011= 41
Sinner 2024= 16

Maximum losing streak
Djokovic 2011= 2
Sinner 2024= 1

Obviously Sinner also has something in his favor compared to Djokovic 2011, namely having won at least one set in all the seasonal matches played.

Let's say that statistically the thing that tips the scales for Djokovic in 2011 is the Wimbledon tournament which he won while Sinner stopped in the quarter-finals.
This is just lame a s s trolling.
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
Statistically it's more than just Wimbledon that tips the scales for Djokovic.

Stunning season from Sinner however. Can't imagine anyone apart from a couple of players stopping him in the biggest matches next season.
You can rule out Djokovic from that pair, if that's what you're implying.
:D
 

zakopinjo

Professional
Does Sinner even make a slam SF in 2011?
Maybe, if he avoided the big 3 and some other players on the way to the semi-finals

I believe he could fight for the title in some of these tournaments (Rotterdam, Memphis, Washington and Vienna).
 

Winner Sinner

Hall of Fame
What many continue to ignore concerns the fact that Sinner actually did not have to face formidable competition to win the US Open and ATP Finals, but this aspect could denigrate his victories if at the same time he would have suffered to get there, instead he literally dominated that competition anything but formidable, and one cannot do more than dominate it.

Then whatever, to those who say that here in Turin they took advantage of Alcaraz's elimination due to illness, I just laugh a lot.
So tell me, when in Bercy he lost to Humbert what exactly did he have diarrhea?
Ditto in Shanghai against Machac?
Zverev getting eliminated by Fritz is Sinner's fault?
If Alcaraz gets "eliminated" by Ruud, and Zverev by Fritz, opponents that Sinner then gets rid of with extreme ease, it's their problem, not Sinner's.

Just as in the h2h with Alcaraz I see that we continue to deliberately ignore that those challenges, all balanced, were played one in what in theory in the matchup is the surface favorable to Alcaraz (clay), while the other 2 in the tournaments in which Alcaraz in this 2024 has shown the greatest inspiration.
When Alcaraz was at his best Sinner always faced him except for Wimbledon, when instead Sinner was at his best (Melbourne, Miami, New York, and Turin) Alcaraz repeatedly got eliminated before being able to face him.
 

Rovesciarete

Hall of Fame
I think it is fascinating how the tour has evolved in the last fifteen years. I don’t think we will see anything near the return stats from Djokovic again as the serve plus has become much more dominant.

Nole transformed hardcourt tennis first and established a new type of tennis which the rest and he himself tried to overcome. Indeed he has become an elite first striker. Sinner has shown us the power of a good serve followed up by elite ball striking, Alcaraz of a decent one combined with elite shot making. Both are still improving most aspects of their game.

How will the tour react to those two? Seems like other elite players try to become more offensive, embracing attack as the best defence…
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
I think it is fascinating how the tour has evolved in the last fifteen years. I don’t think we will see anything near the return stats from Djokovic again as the serve plus has become much more dominant.

Nole transformed hardcourt tennis first and established a new type of tennis which the rest and he himself tried to overcome. Indeed he has become an elite first striker. Sinner has shown us the power of a good serve followed up by elite ball striking, Alcaraz of a decent one combined with elite shot making. Both are still improving most aspects of their game.

How will the tour react to those two? Seems like other elite players try to become more offensive, embracing attack as the best defence…
It's just the height of tour has increased..

Sinner is our new Djokovic. He is 2 inches taller.
Entire tour is taller now.
 

Rovesciarete

Hall of Fame
Depends on whether he's still allowed steroids

There is a strong correlation between guys loving flashy players and unable to weigh basic stats, thus unable to understand the rise of guys like Sinner, Medvedev and Fritz.*

Some constructed a nice little trap for themselves by thinking that Sinner must have doped to reach his AO level and postulated that now his level must drop. Obviously ignoring the original sources and the timelines.

Now he is stronger than ever and instead to revisiting their ideas they become broken records and are even proud of that. Somewhat fascinating.

*Reminds me of my first reactions to Djokovic, how does this boring guy win so much? Thankfully I was soon able to appreciate the many qualities of his tennis.
 
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Tano

Hall of Fame
It is one thing to look at titles alone. But if you look overall level, there is an argument that Sinner was better in terms of beginning to end .

Novak was absent after USO. Sinner won 2 majors, super six slam, YEC .

Nobody since Lendl had won YEC in straight sets. Best anyone could get was 4 games in a set

Sinner never failed to win a set in any match. Basically he was flawless from Jan to Nov

The losses to Med and Alcaraz at majors were very close
Come on!
 
I would like to point out straight away that this is not a thread to demonstrate which of the 2 is the best season, it is clearly Djokovic's 2011 season, where apart from the statistics I will list below, it is enough just to mention his almost immaculate record of 10- 1 against Fedal to close the contest.
However, it remains significant that after the big three, someone has arrived capable of compiling a season that is at least statistically comparable, something unthinkable until recently.
somehow this went quite unnoticed. bunch of headline readers over here i fear
Does Sinner even make a slam SF in 2011?
swap him with Murray or Nadal and he does!
There is a strong correlation between guys loving flashy players and unable to weigh basic stats
on the one hand i don't like this particular brand of condescension but on the other hand saying this to Guru is incredibly funny, so,,,
Some constructed a nice little trap for themselves by thinking that Sinner must have doped to reach his AO level and postulated that now his level must drop.
Sinner's break pts saved % this year has been a historical outlier, especially when considering the strength of his serve relative to other usual suspects in this stat category
 

TheFifthSet

Legend
It's just the height of tour has increased..

Sinner is our new Djokovic. He is 2 inches taller.
Entire tour is taller now.

It hasn’t that much. I did a manual check of the Top 65-70 in 2009 and 2023 (can’t remember where I stopped, but it was around there that I tired out). From what I remember avg height is maybe maybe maybe a quarter of an inch higher, if that.
 
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